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Is modern art a joke?

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So, new community. Thought I would make the first debate here.

Is modern art a joke?
  1. Live Poll

    Is modern art a joke?

    15 votes
    1. Yes
      66.67%
    2. No
      33.33%
I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)



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  • NopeNope 397 Pts   -  
    I find modern art to be one of the better kinds of art. It is nice to look at and does not make sense what ous would you wan't from art. It is also fun to make fun of the simple expensive once. It is nice to look at but who would pay a lot for a couple of circles and squares. So I guess I do consider some of them jokes. But they are still one of my favored kinds of art. : )
  • @Nope ;

    Look at these masterpieces!


    felix gonzalez-torres

    everyone-i-have-ever-slept-with-1963-1995-1995

    I prefer classical art over modern art.
    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • NopeNope 397 Pts   -   edited February 2018
    SilverishGoldNova
    I am not that in to art. I do however like patterns which is why I like modern art more than a normal painting. I would not pay for art but patterns can be good to look at. However they are just patterns and lack the meing, symbolism detail and details many paintings have (not that they don't have any).
  • AmpersandAmpersand 796 Pts   -  
    Modern art doesn't just mean installation pieces of people's bedrooms, etc. Picasso's art is classified as modern art. Warhol's work is modern art. Dali's work is modern art. Basquiat's work is modern art. Even van Gogh and Cezanne can be considered modern art - especially if we're dividing all art into modern or classical.

    Also looking at the urls for your links, it looks like you sourced them from: https://list25.com/25-worst-examples-of-modern-art/. If you're specifically googling for the worst examples of modern art you're not going to get a very good view of it. 
    SlanderIsNotDebate1995BaconToesPlaffelvohfen
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1186 Pts   -   edited February 2018
    @Ampersand Some examples of modern art are good, but, then again, I have noticed that alot of it really isn't art. Especially nowadays, anything you want can be art. Empty room? Such art. Blue Canvas? Such art. People running around naked with their fingers in eachothers asses (and I'm not joking)? Such art. 


    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 330 Pts   -  
    Regarding art, modern or otherwise.  Just as with most other things in society, money is usually the driving force.

    No matter how or lacking in skill a work of art might appear to be, if marketed skilfully there will always be gullible people ready to part with their money.

    That said. We must accept that, both the formulation and appreciation of a work of art are very individual processes.

    I personally have no preferred genre when it comes to art and I will certainly not allow myself to be dictated to,  by current fashion, trend or so called expert opinion.

    I would suggest that, true appreciation of a work of art is defined by our subconscious physiological responses.


    SilverishGoldNovaMajoMILSdlGMGVBaconToes
  • AmpersandAmpersand 796 Pts   -  
    @Ampersand Some examples of modern art are good, but, then again, I have noticed that alot of it really isn't art. Especially nowadays, anything you want can be art. Empty room? Such art. Blue Canvas? Such art. People running around naked with their fingers in eachothers asses (and I'm not joking)? Such art. 


    Art is subjective. To you it isn't art, but presumably to other people, at the very least its creator, it is art and potentially even very fine art.

    But as you agree that some modern art is good then no, modern art is not a joke.
    BaconToesanonymousdebater
  • CDNSmittyCDNSmitty 35 Pts   -  
    Not a joke at all, but a reflection of the times.
    MajoMILSdlGMGVanonymousdebater
  • ethielen18ethielen18 3 Pts   -  
    No, modern art isn't a joke an no art for should be considered so. A definition of art is: the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. Basically saying that it is just something that comes from your imagination and creativity, and you can't really say something is not creative enough.
  • NoahShieldsNoahShields 14 Pts   -  
    I do not believe that modern art is a joke.
    While the term modern art refers to a broad spectrum of the medium, I believe that modern art in itself is a stark contrast to the classical art that we have been taught to praise. Modern art seeks to break the ideals of art that we have been force fed our entire lives. Artist Wassily Kandinski's "On White 2" is able to deliver an aesthetically pleasing selection of simple shapes, bold lines, and color which culminate in one of abstract modern art's greatest masterpieces. To the blind eye, it may seem to be a "bunch of circles and squares," but to a well trained eye it is easy to see the genius in his use of focus and movement. It is a stand-alone piece that assisted in defining a sub-movement in the spectrum of modern art.
    Like "On White 2," most modern art can be easily dismissed by a casual viewer, but to one that delves into the aesthetic and meaning behind the individual pieces, there is a great wealth of knowledge and inspiration that can be gained.
    MajoMILSdlGMGV
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3947 Pts   -  
    Yes and no. Let me elaborate on this.

    Modern art contains a very high degree of abstraction. If in, say, the Renaissance era you would look at a statue and see immediately what the sculptor wanted to confer through it, because it would look so similar to people you observe in your everyday life - then in the modern art, you have to infer the meaning of the sculpture through abstract elements (such as triangles) having a meaning hidden well through layers and layers of history, rules and conventions.

    As a result, there is a very strong disparity between what people knowledgeable about modern art and those who know much less about it can infer from the art. A person who does not understand modern art could still visit modern art galleries and enjoy certain aspects of that art, such as the calming visual style, or just the general atmosphere in the gallery hall - but they will be oblivious to the meaning the author put into the work of art.

    This, unfortunately, opens a lot of opportunities for scammers to exploit the situation. When a lot of people in modern art galleries do not know what they are looking for, one can randomly wave a brush around for a while and successfully sell it for a complex work of art. Even more so, people knowledgeable about modern art realize that there is a lot of room for improvization, and even the experts can sometimes mistakenly give high value to the artwork that had no substance in its creation. (Remember the picture that was made by an elephant holding a brush in its trunk and that was later sold for a fortune?)

    To summarize the above, modern art is a very complex field, and as any complex field, it is very diverse in its quality and in how people perceive that quality. A lot of what is sold as modern art is, indeed, a joke, a lazy attempt to produce something of value, even if it is not always recognized as such - but there is also a large array of deep, high quality artworks that are not any less an art than the best examples of the classic art.

    MajoMILSdlGMGV
  • I know why you are saying modern art a joke. But, we can generalize one bad art piece of all brilliant modern art ideas. It would be unjust. 
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @SilverishGoldNova:

    I think that some of the modern art of today, is being called "conceptual art?"

    From Wikipedia: 
    "Conceptual art, sometimes simply called conceptualism, is art in which the concept(s) or idea(s) involved in the work take precedence over traditional aesthetic, technical, and material concerns."

    An individual creates an art piece, like some of the examples you've exhibited, and it's more about a conception over telling a story or with layers of brush strokes, or dots like with pointalism? 

    Or maybe some of the modern pattern art, which I've seen around for a few years now, could be interpreted in a sense, as a probable take on Picasso and his cubism style?
    For example: "Guitar and violin."

    If an individual looks at some art, and becomes visually lost as to what the artist is trying to convey through their individual piece of art, then maybe the art piece was created with to much thought behind it, and not enough expression? 

    I believe that when an individual creates an individual piece of "art' and it's more thought based instead of expression based, you risk the chance of losing the interest of the viewer who's viewing an individuals art piece. 

    An art teacher once said, that when you look at a piece of art, there should be a flow to it, that your eyes should be engaged by the subject of the artwork.

    This is from the Artists network:

    1) A strong focal point.
    2) Layers of color.
    3) Changes in direction.

  • RayRay 17 Pts   -  
    @SilverishGoldNova

    We need to bring honesty back into art.  It is wonderful to have so many forms of art, but we must not regard all works of art as a masterpiece.  The art world has become very dishonest.  Art has become very confusing.  It seems to have lost its way and become a bit of a joke.  It is now time to be honest about art.  We must judge a work of art in an honest way. We can let the experts decide how valuable the work of art is, and we can decide if we like it or dislike it, but we must not class a work of art as great or as a masterpiece just because we like it, or because it is valuable; we must always estimate how much artistic talent is involved in producing the work of art.

     

    We would assume that in an art competition the most talented work of art would win, but this is not the case.  Most people cannot understand how an unmade bed, a pile of bricks and a light switching on and off can be regarded as great works of art. They are not great works of art, and it is time to expose the con merchants who say they are.  To say that an unmade bed is a great work of art, is the same as saying that a large square block of marble is a great sculptor and a blurred out-of-focus photograph is a great photograph. Anyone can make an unmade bed, a square block of marble and an out-of-focus photograph.

     

    It all began to go wrong when some artists realised that they will never be able to paint like Constable, Turner, Rembrandt, Monet, etc, and they diversified into art that required much less artistic talent, such as, Abstractism, Constructivism, Cubism, Minimalism, Conceptualism, etc. what most people would call modern or contemporary art.  Picasso’s early works, when he was trying to paint in a traditional realistic way, were of a low standard. Picasso then started the cubism movement that required much less artistic talent. Some modern artists and contemporary artists are very talented, but many are not.

    It has always been difficult to estimate the amount of artistic talent there is in a work of art, but that has changed. We can now measure the level of artistic talent involved in a work of art by using RAY WARRILLOW’S ARTISTIC TALENT ESTIMATOR. All we need to do is ask a few artists to copy a work of art.  If they find it very easy, such as copying Rhythm, Joy of Life by Robert Delaunay or the Acrobat by Picasso, the level of artistic talent is AVERAGE.  If they find it slightly difficult such as Two Heads by Karel Appel the level of artistic talent is above average. If they find it difficult it is good. Very difficult it is very good. Extremely difficult it is extremely good. Impossible, (such as trying to copy a painting by Rembrandt or Turner), they are the greats.

    RAY WARRILLOW’S ARTISTIC TALENT ESTIMATOR.

     

    Very easy to copy.                  =  Average.

    Slightly difficult to copy.       =  Above average.

    Difficult to copy.                     =  Good.

    Very difficult to copy.            =  Very Good.

    Extremely difficult to copy.  =  Extremely Good.

    Impossible to copy.                =  They are the greats.

     

    Who are these people who decide how great a work of art is? All I can say is that many of them are either totally round the bend, have no understanding of art at all or have an agenda. My guess is that they have an agenda, and that agenda is to make a great deal of money from ordinary art. This is why we need to expose them for what they are and put honesty back into art.  

     

    Art museums are full of all kinds of art. This is good and appreciated. What we must not do is label ordinary works of art as great works of art. This is where honesty is needed. Tracy Emmen will never be a great artist, and to say that David Hockney is the greatest living artist is ridiculous. I had more artistic talent at eight years of age than Tracy Emmen has and I had more artistic talent at fifteen than David Hockney has.  

     

    To copy Tracy Emmen’s artwork would be very easy and so her talent is average.  To copy David Hockney’s work would be slightly difficult or difficult, which would make his level of artistic talent no higher than good.

     

    What people need to do is to speak out whenever they can and expose the con merchants and bring honesty back into art.  A great work of art will be either impossible or extremely difficult to copy.  Art competitions should to also be honest. They can have an art competition to find the most original work of art, or the most shocking work of art, or the most comical work of art, or the most abstract work of art, etc, but if it is a competition to find the most talented artist, then they must use RAY WARRILLOW’S ARTISTIC TALENT ESTIMATOR. If they do, an unmade bed and a pile of bricks will never win an art competition.   

     

    I realise that other factors other than the level of artistic talent would also be involved in deciding a winner in an art competition, such as composition, a currently acceptable style, a pleasing effect, chiaroscuro, etc, but they can still be honest.  I would like someone to start a movement to put honesty back into art.

     

     


  • TreeManTreeMan 261 Pts   -  
    It depends how modern you consider as modern art. Modern art with extensive symbolism and meaning is good, and bunch of dots sprayed over a piece of canvas is a joke. Apparently someone sold a banana taped to a wall for 150k. A bunch of high school students put a pineapple of a blank stand, and the best day somone decided to cover it with glass protection. A museum employee got fired for throwing a price of ‘art’ that he thought was rubbish in the bin. The examples go on and on. Renaissance art by people like Da Vinci is amazing, and so is the work of Picasso, as it is covered with tons of symbols. To the common man, however, Monet would be better, as not everyone is a symbologist, and can understand the painting to the full extent. 
  • TreeManTreeMan 261 Pts   -  
    Oh, and I forgot about the rock that someone put in a display that a damn art gallery spend 3 million dollars on!!  Just a random rock that they bought!! I consider this exceptionally disrespectful to Michelangelo, who spent 3 years on the famous David!
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