Security clearance

CYDdharta

ih8sharts said:

It is my understanding that nobody with a security clearance is allowed to see classified information and a high level security clearance is required to see top secret information. It is also my understanding that the only person who can declassify information, by telling it to a person without security clearance, is POTUS.

This suggests that the people who have been showing top secret info to people like Jared Kushner and Rob Porter committed treason.

Am I wrong?

In order to legally access classified information you need to meet three requirements;

1) you need to have a security clearance at least as high as the maximum classification of the material being accessed
2) you need proper ID
3) you need to have a need to know (this usually takes the form of having your name on a roster of people authorized to access the materials in question)


Every piece of properly classified material includes declassification instructions.  These are sometimes dates, but usually (at least in the military when I was serving, and I seriously doubt anything has changed) they're marked Declas: OADR (Originating Agency’s Determination Required).  The president is the commander-in-chief of all of the classifying agencies and has the authority to declassify just about anything at any time.  Jared Kushner and Rob Porter undoubtedly have top secret security clearances, and if they were acting on behalf of the president, they can declassify pretty much anything the president allows them to.

with_all_humility

You're not quite correct, I'll respond tomorrow with the guidelines on handling classified information.  

ih8sharts

"Jared Kushner and Rob Porter undoubtedly have top secret security clearances"

They do not. They were granted temporary security clearance. Yet, even though it was made clear that they will never get a permanent security clearance, they still were handed the highest level classified information.

If POTUS hands classified info to somebody without clearance, the info is automatically considered declassified, which could be a huge problem for the US.

someone234

NASA and the people who control the lies of the round earth and global warming are beyond security clearance. You can have the highest of the highest SC and not get a glimpse of the truth. This is because they are above the law.

CYDdharta

ih8sharts said:

"Jared Kushner and Rob Porter undoubtedly have top secret security clearances"

They do not. They were granted temporary security clearance. Yet, even though it was made clear that they will never get a permanent security clearance, they still were handed the highest level classified information.

If POTUS hands classified info to somebody without clearance, the info is automatically considered declassified, which could be a huge problem for the US.

OK, his clearance was downgraded, but he still had a security clearance.  Do you have any proof that the information Jared Kushner and Rob Porter accessed was top secret?

with_all_humility

CYDdharta said:

ih8sharts said:

It is my understanding that nobody with a security clearance is allowed to see classified information and a high level security clearance is required to see top secret information. It is also my understanding that the only person who can declassify information, by telling it to a person without security clearance, is POTUS.

This suggests that the people who have been showing top secret info to people like Jared Kushner and Rob Porter committed treason.

Am I wrong?

In order to legally access classified information you need to meet three requirements;

1) you need to have a security clearance at least as high as the maximum classification of the material being accessed
2) you need proper ID
3) you need to have a need to know (this usually takes the form of having your name on a roster of people authorized to access the materials in question)


Every piece of properly classified material includes declassification instructions.  These are sometimes dates, but usually (at least in the military when I was serving, and I seriously doubt anything has changed) they're marked Declas: OADR (Originating Agency’s Determination Required).  The president is the commander-in-chief of all of the classifying agencies and has the authority to declassify just about anything at any time.  Jared Kushner and Rob Porter undoubtedly have top secret security clearances, and if they were acting on behalf of the president, they can declassify pretty much anything the president allows them to.

Access to US Gov't Classified Information:

Information can be classified in one of the following categories.

• Unclassified
• For Official Use Only (FOUO) 
• Unclassified and FOUO does not require a clearance in order to view the information. The difference between unclassified and FOUO is there is a possibility of accumulating enough FOUO could pose a security risk to the US. No clearance is need to view.

• Confidential: shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe. 
• Secret: classification shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe. 
• Top Secret: classification is applied to information that, if disclosed to unauthorized persons, could reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grade damage to our national security; however, what constitutes exceptionally grave damage.

Normally the originator of the document/info or what is known as Original Classification Authorities will assign the classification the information along with a declassification date.

In order to view classified document the following criteria must be met.

• Must have a bonafide Need to Know basis to view the material. Example: you could have a Top Secret clearance and the information is marked Confidential.  Unless you have a mission related need to know reason to view the material.  You are not allowed to see it. Regardless of your security clearance you must have a need to know reason for accessing the information.
• Possess the proper security clearance.  You can have a higher level security clearance, but not a lower. Example:  A person with TS clearance can view secret and confidential information. However a person with only a secret clearance cannot view TS documents.
  
• If a person does not have a security clearance an interim clearance can be given by the proper authority. Temporary clearance is only good for limited time.  You can also get your clearance upgraded for a specific job/task. 
• You name and information should be on a control roster (List of people authorized to access the info) Sometimes a badge, or could be government ID, contractors badge
• Must be in an approved area for accessing/view the information (Usually Vault or SCIF)
  
• If you're not in an area that is approved for view/processing of classified, then you can post a guard outside the door while classified information is being discussed or processed.

Classified Documents are to be clearly marked with their classification level.  They can contain both classified and unclassified information. If that be the case then each paragraph or line must have proper letter within parentheses designating the classification of information with in that line or paragraph.  (This is how they knew Hilary Clinton had received classified information over a non-classified network. Example (S) - Secret 

Example: 

Classified can only be stored in approve safes/containers. 

You cannot transmit classified information on a non-classified network, must be on an approved and certified classified network. 

If the particular classified information is no longer needed but has not reached its declassification date.  Then the material must be destroyed using an approved device.  Like a paper pulverizer, special hard drive electromagnetic devices, cd/dvd defacer and etcetera. 

POTUS would have authority by the nature of his office to classify or declassify as he see fits.  If he was inappropriately declassify something, I'm sure there would be political ramifications. 

ih8sharts

@with_all_humility

"POTUS would have authority by the nature of his office to classify or declassify as he see fits.  If he was inappropriately declassify something, I'm sure there would be political ramifications."

By allowing somebody like RP and JK to review top secret information while knowing they are incapable to receive permanent TS SC, a point could be made that POTUS declassified said TS info.

A political price has yet to be paid. Trump did not even pay a political price for disclosing TS info to the Russians in the oval office. 

CYDdharta

ih8sharts said:

@with_all_humility

"POTUS would have authority by the nature of his office to classify or declassify as he see fits.  If he was inappropriately declassify something, I'm sure there would be political ramifications."

By allowing somebody like RP and JK to review top secret information while knowing they are incapable to receive permanent TS SC, a point could be made that POTUS declassified said TS info.

A political price has yet to be paid. Trump did not even pay a political price for disclosing TS info to the Russians in the oval office. 

Once again, how do you know the classification of any of the information Trump and/or administration officials accessed?

with_all_humility

ih8sharts said:

@with_all_humility

"POTUS would have authority by the nature of his office to classify or declassify as he see fits.  If he was inappropriately declassify something, I'm sure there would be political ramifications."

By allowing somebody like RP and JK to review top secret information while knowing they are incapable to receive permanent TS SC, a point could be made that POTUS declassified said TS info.

A political price has yet to be paid. Trump did not even pay a political price for disclosing TS info to the Russians in the oval office. 

It does not work that way, there's to many people in those meetings and in the White House in general.  A person has to literally have a clearance, whether be a temporary or certified clearance.  POTUS's people had a temporary clearance, JK's temporary one expired before he could clear up issues they found.  

When a clearance is done, they interview all kinds of people and scrub your back ground throughly and anything that might be used against you has to be cleared up before the issuance of the clearance.  That's what was reported that JK had something that had not been resolved.  We don't know what those things are.  You would think that's it's easy to get a clearance, it's not, especially if you have financial issues, arrest anything that can be used by a foreign agent.  

They're very expensive to get, so contractors will pay according to the level of your clearance.  Having a TS would put you over $100K a year from what I've heard.  

CYDdharta

with_all_humility said:

It does not work that way, there's to many people in those meetings and in the White House in general.  A person has to literally have a clearance, whether be a temporary or certified clearance.  POTUS's people had a temporary clearance, JK's temporary one expired before he could clear up issues they found. 

They still have clearances, just not top secret clearances.  They're limited to confidential and secret.

ih8sharts

@CYDdharta
"Once again, how do you know the classification of any of the information Trump and/or administration officials accessed?"

Because it has been reported and confirmed that RP was in charge of handling all briefings for the president, which means he saw all the documents before they landed on POTUS' desk.

It has also been reported and confirmed that JK has requested and received more classified info than anybody else in this administration.

CYDdharta

ih8sharts said:

@CYDdharta
"Once again, how do you know the classification of any of the information Trump and/or administration officials accessed?"

Because it has been reported and confirmed that RP was in charge of handling all briefings for the president, which means he saw all the documents before they landed on POTUS' desk.

It has also been reported and confirmed that JK has requested and received more classified info than anybody else in this administration.

...so then no proof, gotcha.

with_all_humility

ih8sharts said:

@CYDdharta
"Once again, how do you know the classification of any of the information Trump and/or administration officials accessed?"

Because it has been reported and confirmed that RP was in charge of handling all briefings for the president, which means he saw all the documents before they landed on POTUS' desk.

It has also been reported and confirmed that JK has requested and received more classified info than anybody else in this administration.

It is obvious that the POTUS is briefed on classified matters, to what level, only those present at the briefs would know.  President Obama made his daily briefing widely distributed, clear down to non-two letter (office designation of a two-letter office are director/command level) people.  That's how a lot of that "Russia Conspiracy" got leaked out.  It's also how Senator Nunez found out about the surveillance of the Trump campaign.  It has been heavily criticized that several people who did not have the "Need to Know" was on the list.  That's opinion though, President Obama "perhaps" decided differently, or worse yet someone on this staff decided.

Not every briefing would be at the TS level, as far as classified landing on the President's desk, it would not necessarily work that way.  Whoever signed for the classified, most likely maintained possession of the classified and personally briefed the President.  Chain of custody would have to be maintained. Remember General Petraeus lost his job and a star for mishandling of classified.  Now he was the Director of the CIA, the most covert entity in the world. If the Trump Cabinet mishandled classified I'm sure it would have leaked out to CNN or New York Times by now. 

with_all_humility

ih8sharts said:

If POTUS hands classified info to somebody without clearance, the info is automatically considered declassified, which could be a huge problem for the US.

He would not be able to do that and POTUS would not be the originator of very much material, other than directives and Presidental Orders of classified operations 

Also, those who have knowledge of such actions have authority under Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009

Sec. 1.8. Classification Challenges.

(a)		Authorized holders of information who, in good faith, believe that its classification status is improper are encouraged and expected to challenge the classification status of the information in accordance with agency procedures established under paragraph (b) of this section.
(b)		In accordance with implementing directives issued pursuant to this order, an agency head or senior agency official shall establish procedures under which authorized holders of information, including authorized holders outside the classifying agency, are encouraged and expected to challenge the classification of information that they believe is improperly classified or unclassified. These procedures shall ensure that:
		(1)   individuals are not subject to retribution for bringing such actions; (2)   an opportunity is provided for review by an impartial official or panel; and (3)   individuals are advised of their right to appeal agency decisions to the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel (Panel) established by section 5.3 of this order.
(c)		Documents required to be submitted for prepublication review or other administrative processes pursuant to an approved nondisclosure agreement are not covered by this section.

As for the process of declassification. 

Sec. 3.1. Authority for Declassification.

(a)		Information shall be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification under this order.
(b)		Information shall be declassified or downgraded by:
		(1) the official who authorized the original classification, if that official is still serving in the same position and has original classification authority; (2) the originator's current successor in function, if that individual has original classification authority; (3)   a supervisory official of either the originator or his or her successor in function, if the supervisory official has original classification authority; or (4)   officials delegated declassification authority in writing by the agency head or the senior agency official of the originating agency.
(c)		The Director of National Intelligence (or, if delegated by the Director of National Intelligence, the Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence) may, with respect to the Intelligence Community, after consultation with the head of the originating Intelligence Community element or department, declassify, downgrade, or direct the declassification or downgrading of information or intelligence relating to intelligence sources, methods, or activities.
(d)		It is presumed that information that continues to meet the classification requirements under this order requires continued protection. In some exceptional cases, however, the need to protect such information may be outweighed by the public interest in disclosure of the information, and in these cases, the information should be declassified. When such questions arise, they shall be referred to the agency head or the senior agency official. That official will determine, as an exercise of discretion, whether the public interest in disclosure outweighs the damage to the national security that might reasonably be expected from disclosure. This provision does not:
		(1)   amplify or modify the substantive criteria or procedures for classification; or (2)   create any substantive or procedural rights subject to judicial review.
(e)		If the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office determines that information is classified in violation of this order, the Director may require the information to be declassified by the agency that originated the classification. Any such decision by the Director may be appealed to the President through the National Security Advisor. The information shall remain classified pending a prompt decision on the appeal.
(f)		The provisions of this section shall also apply to agencies that, under the terms of this order, do not have original classification authority, but had such authority under predecessor orders.
(g)		No information may be excluded from declassification under section 3.3 of this order based solely on the type of document or record in which it is found. Rather, the classified information must be considered on the basis of its content.
(h)		Classified nonrecord materials, including artifacts, shall be declassified as soon as they no longer meet the standards for classification under this order.
(i)		When making decisions under sections 3.3, 3.4, and 3.5 of this order, agencies shall consider the final decisions of the Panel.

Vaulk

Something that hasn't been addressed is that the holder of the clearance, under certain circumstances, may be granted access to classified information above their security clearance.  While classification of information is clear-cut and dry, the actual rules surrounding each individual's security clearance is not.  Depending on numerous circumstances, multiple variables and the overall type of information that's being discussed, certain authority figures (In some situations) can grant authorization to clearance holders to view (Temporarily or otherwise) classified information above their level of clearance.

This is an exception to the rule rather than the norm however, it still holds true and I've seen it multiple times.  Security clearances are timely and costly...sometimes critical decisions must be made that cannot afford that time and that's where authority comes into play for exceptions.  If I hold a Secret Clearance and I happen to be a assigned to investigate something critical and that something happens to have a Top Secret element that I need to take into consideration...a room of executives aren't going to agree to wait 3-4 days for a clearance to process in order to have that material reviewed in some situations.  In this scenario, whatever authority that classified the information would create multiple memorandums (15 minutes) and sign them authorizing me to temporarily review the information with the inclusion of an order of non-disclosure.  50 signatures later...I'd look over the information, take it into consideration and it would be done.

Some clarifications though, most authority figures don't like doing this as it comes with a heavy level of liability...but it is something that's done irregularly.

with_all_humility

@Vaulk

I actually eluded to that in one of my posts.

• If a person does not have a security clearance an interim clearance can be given by the proper authority. Temporary clearance is only good for a limited time.  You can also get your clearance upgraded for a specific job/task. 

When I worked on the B-1B Bomer in my younger years , The aircraft got tasked with a special mission, in the AF all personnel has at least a Secret Clearance.  Unless they've gotten in trouble and had their clearance pulled. Anyway, the nature of mission required that all ground support personnel (maintenance personnel) had to have a TS.  So, those who went and supported the mission had their clearances upgraded to TS for the mission.  When you got back you were debriefed and signed a non-disclosure statement and resumed life as normal.

So what's your background Vaulk?

Vaulk

@with_all_humility

Similar experience with interim clearances and temporary as well.  I don't recall if Interim is what they dished out to all the troops for deployments or if it was temporary. 

I was Army 19D, 14yrs with 1st Cav at Hood.  At one point I was appointed to S3 Ops NCOIC and the headache began as I went through an SF-86 for a 10 year background check.  I never missed my "Limited time clearance" so much.

Clearance was fairly laxed between 2002 and 2010...then things got serious and all of a sudden and if you didn't have the right clearance...you'd get an earful for even looking in the direction of intel above your level.

Bottom line...security clearances are not as cut and dry as some have made them out to be...it's a very flexible slope with occasional hard points.  You can't really blame anyone for getting the wrong idea about it though...information on things of that nature is incomplete at best and likely for a reason.  I blame movies.