frame

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

DebateIsland.com is the largest online debate website globally where anyone can anonymously and easily debate online, casually or formally, while connecting with their friends and others. Users, regardless of debating skill level, can civilly debate just about anything online in a text-based online debate website that supports five easy-to-use and fun debating formats ranging from Casual, to Formalish, to Lincoln-Douglas Formal. In addition, people can improve their debating skills with the help of revolutionary artificial intelligence-powered technology on our debate website. DebateIsland is totally free and provides the best online debate experience of any debate website.





The U.S.A is not the best country in the world

Debate Information

I've always been told the U.S.A's been the best country in the world, is it really the best in the world?
comey_testify



Debra AI Prediction

Predicted To Win
Predicted 2nd Place
11%
Margin

Details +




Post Argument Now Debate Details +

    Arguments


  • comey_testifycomey_testify 54 Pts   -  
    Yes. The United Tsatss provides rights and freedom to millions of people.
    Zombieguy1987DrCereal
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @comey_testify Ok, but so does Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Ireland, Canada, etc. All better nations compared the U.S.A
    DrCereal
  • DrCerealDrCereal 193 Pts   -  
    Yes. The United Tsatss provides rights and freedom to millions of people.
    Adding to what Zombie has said, the United States isn't even in the top 10 on the Human Freedom Index (2017).
    https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/2017-human-freedom-index-2.pdf

    Zombieguy1987
    Bis das, si cito das.
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @DrCereal FINALLY! Someone actually uses facts that prove the at the U.S isn't even 15 in HDI, HFI, etc. The only they're good at is military, but even then.... They overspend on it
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @comey_testify So, the U.S.A provides freedom?

    I'm sure these charts say otherwise  

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Ranking

    In all three of these charts, not only did the U.S.A not hit top 10, but they didn't even hit top 15!

    Could've sworn the "best country in the world" would be top 10 at least. 
    DrCereal
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 499 Pts   -   edited July 2018
    While it may not be fact, I see in my opinion that our country is better than all other countries. Europe has poor immigration policies that have led to much violence and attacks, with the Muslim ban, attacks perpetrated by Muslims are now a rare occurrence, the state of Europe would not be acceptable as being superior, or to a percent, better than the United States. 
    Zombieguy1987
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @George_Horse Ok, but just because the U.S has a better immigration policy doesn't mean it's better. Switzerland barely, if any, suffers from attacks, and by your logic is as good as the U.S.A. I'm sorry, but the facts are not in the U.S.As favor
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    While it may not be fact, I see in my opinion that our country is better than all other countries. Europe has poor immigration policies that have led to much violence and attacks, with the Muslim ban, attacks perpetrated by Muslims are now a rare occurrence, the state of Europe would not be acceptable as being superior, or to a percent, better than the United States. 
    The USA has more murder than any European country except the Ukraine, a country that has been invaded and occupied.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
    Zombieguy1987George_Horse
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    Yes and no. 

    When one makes a quantitative judgment of something, such as the country's position in the ranking of the world countries by "goodness", the evaluation criterion of that judgment should be specified. The best at what? The best from what perspective? The best according to which system of values? What one sees as the best country in the world to live in can differ significantly from what someone else sees as the best country in the world.

    From my personal perspective, the US is tied with Switzerland for the best country in the world to live in: I value individual rights and liberties very high, much higher than "the good of the society", much higher than "security" and much higher than "equality" - the latter entities I see as consequences of a free society, not as prerequisites for its existence. 
    I am probably happier in the US than in Switzerland for a few reasons, but overall I would be absolutely happy to live in either.

    At the same time, some of my friends cannot stomach the US. My friend from Finland is pretty socialist in her views, she lives happier knowing that the government will take care of her if she gets into financial trouble, than knowing that her success is in her hands and in her hands alone - she would be absolutely miserable in the US. Vice versa, I would feel strangled in Finland.

    ---

    As far as objectivity of "rankings" such as that of HRW goes, they are always based on specified quantified criteria, and the choice of those criteria is somewhat arbitrary and depends on the organizational or individual priorities. I have seen rankings which put the US at #1 in terms of wealth per capita, and I have seen those that put it outside top 30 nations. Some freedom rankings put the UK near the top, others do not include it in top-50. Some human rights organizations put Israel in top 20, others put it at the bottom of the list. Some education quality rankings put Estonia at #1 in the world, others put it near the average African nation.

    There is no objective way of judging the "bestness" of a country, because what is "better" and what is "worse", in turn, is inherently subjective. The North Korean leadership believes that the North Korean society is the freest, most prosperous and happiest society in the world; who is to say that they are wrong? Their interpretation of what freedom, prosperity and happiness is may simply be different from ours (and that of millions dissidents sent to labor camps, but that is a different story).
    VaulkZombieguy1987
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar No, there is an objective way on which country is the best and worst. Your North Korea example is not reasonable, because the people there are forced to say N.K is the best, but from a OBJECTIVE standpoint, we know it's bad at every angle, economy, human rights, freedom, education, health etc. Just like how we have an objective view on the U.S. Sure, people are free, but are not as free as the citizens of Finland, Sweden, Canada, etc.  

    Let's do this. Try to explain how America is the best country in the world when I list the flaws with the country 

    How come a presidential candidate can have the popular vote, but not get elected?

     Why is the education system so backwards compared to other western nations? 

    Why do politicians say they're for democracy, yet want to ban freedom of religion, speech, press, right to own a gun etc?

    For a country that believes in right of privacy, it sure feels like that doesn't exist after 9/11

    How come in America, where "religious freedom" is "protected", how come oppression happens to groups of people like atheists and agnostics?  

  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    @Zombieguy1987

    There is nothing objective about these judgments. "People are not as free as the citizens of Finland, Sweden, Canada, etc." - is a subjective assessment. I find myself to be more free in the US than in those 3 countries to live my preferred lifestyle. For example, the currency exchange market in the US is much less restricted and much less taxes than in any of those three countries, and it is vital to me as one of the integral components of my business plan. Freedom of speech is also something that is arguably far more protected in the US than in those three countries; the US is the only country out of these 4 that has the First amendment or its analogue. People who have different lifestyles than me may find themselves more free or less free in those countries than in the US, depending on what aspects of freedom they are exercising. 

    Even in North Korea there are certain freedoms nobody has in any of the mentioned countries. For example, Kim Jung Un is free to rule the entire nation however he sees fit, with barely any limitations and barely any danger for himself - for him, this freedom is far more important than anything any of these 4 countries can offer, hence North Korea is more free from his perspective.

    Regarding your last point, every country in the world has flaws. Presence of certain flaws in the US does not prevent it from being the best country in the world from a certain point of view. Regarding the individual points, they are all subjective, and I disagree with them. One by one:

    "How come a presidential candidate can have the popular vote, but not get elected?"
    The US is a republic, not a democracy. Many people, me included, see the republican form of governship as better than the democratic one.

    " Why is the education system so backwards compared to other western nations? "
    I am working on my PhD at University of Notre Dame, and I find it to offer more than many top schools in many other Western nations.

    "Why do politicians say they're for democracy, yet want to ban freedom of religion, speech, press, right to own a gun etc?"
    Because different politicians have different views on what constitutes a democracy.

    "For a country that believes in right of privacy, it sure feels like that doesn't exist after 9/11"
    Privacy is not necessarily a good thing. I find confidentiality to be important, while privacy not as much.

    "How come in America, where "religious freedom" is "protected", how come oppression happens to groups of people like atheists and agnostics?" 
    Some level of oppression with regards to every single religious and non-religious group exists in every country in the world.

    To summarize, the way you evaluate the US place in the world ranking in terms of "bestness" is highly subjective and only correct with regards to your personal criteria of evaluation. Other people have other criteria of evaluation, which results in different conclusions.
  • Zombieguy1987Zombieguy1987 471 Pts   -  
    @MayCaesar Ok, lets use this "subjective feeling" towards other things, and let's so how that work, ok


    Texting and Driving is objectively bad because is causes car accidents

    Smoking is objectively bad because it causes cancer overall negative heath effects

    Being overweight is objectively bad because it can cause. Diabetes, Heart attacks and high blood pressure

    North Korea is subjectively bad because Kim Jung Un said it's a good country, despite all the evidence against it?

    So, because the leader of a country that has a history of being bad, even to this day, says "Nah, this country is good" means it good?

    But when someone says "I don't see a problem with smoking" yet it's objectively bad

    I don't see the logic here MayCaesar!
  • JoesephJoeseph 653 Pts   -  
    To measure how good a country as in .....

    Is medical care free in the U S ?

    Is there a decent social welfare system  ?

    Are crime rates high ? 

    Are the streets safe ?

    Do all citizens get a state pension when they retire ? 

    If the U S does not have these systems in place then it’s certainly not the best country in the world to live in 


    Zombieguy1987George_HorseAgility_Dude
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    @Zombieguy1987 You ignore my arguments and get back to the square one in each comment, which makes me think that you are more interested in confirming your biases, than in debating the matter. In any case, let me go through your points one by one...

    "Texting and Driving is objectively bad because is causes car accidents"
    - This is inaccurate. The accurate statement would be "Texting and driving may or may not cause a car accident". Next, for your conclusion to be correct, one has to agree that anything that increases risk of a car accident is bad - which makes no sense; for one, driving in the first place increases risk of a car accident, so you would have to conclude that driving is bad, right? In addition, car accidents might not be seen as bad by some people, who, for example, see them as a natural selection (with the related positive consequences, such as population control and reducing the number of careless people in the world).

    "Smoking is objectively bad because it causes cancer overall negative heath effects"
    - The exact same argument applies, just replace "texting and driving" with "smoking". Add to that that smoking calms down some people, and they see this as a positive effect offsetting the dangers of smoking. Same goes for texting and driving: sending a message right now to one's lover, for example, can be seen as worth the risk and, hence, is good.

    "Being overweight is objectively bad because it can cause. Diabetes, Heart attacks and high blood pressure"
    - Same argument; replace "smoking" with "being overweight".

    "North Korea is subjectively bad because Kim Jung Un said it's a good country, despite all the evidence against it?"
    - It is not subjectively bad because Kim Jun Un said it is good; it is subjectively bad because the concept of "badness" is subjective in the first place.

    "So, because the leader of a country that has a history of being bad, even to this day, says "Nah, this country is good" means it good?"
    - No, and nobody said that in this thread. The "history of being bad" is a subjective judgment, and "North Korea is good" is a subjective judgment. And it is not because the leader of the country says so, but because any assessment is subjective by its design.

    "But when someone says "I don't see a problem with smoking" yet it's objectively bad"
    No, it is not.

    ---

    As you can see, making an objective statement is incredibly difficult. And it is impossible as far as inherently subjective parts of a statement are involved, such as words "good", "better", "best", "bad", "worse" or "worst". Like I said, any judgment can be made only if the evaluation criteria are specified - and those criteria are arbitrary and subjective.

    When applied to the topic, what is "best" for some may not be "best" for others, and vice versa. Every country in the world has upsides and downsides, and what those upsides and downsides are depends on the personal outlook. In my eyes, the upsides of the US offset the downsides more than in any other country in the world (barring, maybe, Switzerland), hence in my eyes it is the best country in the world. In your eyes, it could be Finland, Canada or something else, because those countries' upsides offset their downsides more in your eyes than in the US. And yes, it is likely that there are people for whom this is the case with North Korea, making it the best country for them (North Korea is likely the best country for Kim Jung Un, but might not be the best for someone working in a labor camp, for example).

    If you are interested in a detailed example of how something that might seem objective in someone's eyes is, in reality, subjective, then check out my comment in this debate:
    https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/2338/Objective%20ethical%20values%20do%20exist%20and%20these%20are%20them/comments

    Zombieguy1987
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 499 Pts   -  
    Ampersand said:

    The USA has more murder than any European country except the Ukraine, a country that has been invaded and occupied.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
    >using wikipedia




    Zombieguy1987
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • George_HorseGeorge_Horse 499 Pts   -  
    Joeseph said:
    To measure how good a country as in .....

    Is medical care free in the U S ?

    Is there a decent social welfare system  ?

    Are crime rates high ? 

    Are the streets safe ?

    Do all citizens get a state pension when they retire ? 

    If the U S does not have these systems in place then it’s certainly not the best country in the world to live in 


    Are streets (at night) safe in Europe?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

    "A communist is like a crocodile" ~Winston Churchill

    We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.~Orson Welles
  • Agility_DudeAgility_Dude 62 Pts   -  
    USA has tons of freedom. It has some of the most libertarian free speech policies and a free market economy. That's what makes a country great.
    Zombieguy1987
  • ApplesauceApplesauce 243 Pts   -  
    USA has tons of freedom. It has some of the most libertarian free speech policies and a free market economy. That's what makes a country great.
    it depends on what qualities you consider make a country great.  The U.S. is the only country that has a right to free speech.  Then when you examine "due process" or try to compare the 4th amendment etc I don't think other countries even come close to the U.S. constitution and bill of rights with regards to freedom.  With freedom comes consequences as does everything.  In George Orwell 1984 there was little crime and no freedom.  The reality is you give up freedom for safety, you must decide how much you are willing to give up.  Solitary confinement in a prison is very safe, especially compared toa ghetto in Chicago.  If you want and love freedom, the U.S. is the best country in the world even with the consequences that come with it.
    MayCaesar
    "I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
    Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
    The Animals
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    @Applesauce

    I think this is a spectacular argument, and something many people do not realize. The thing is, freedom is a double-edged sword: the more freedom there is, the more chaos there is, and chaos takes all forms and shapes, both good and bad.

    People who favor security over freedom, point at the flaws of free societies and say, "This is not right. This should not be happening in a civilized society. We should be past this."

    People who truly, genuinely love and understand freedom, however, accept both its strengths and flaws. They realize that freedom is always in conflict with safety and security, and they still prefer it. Freedom is a choice of brave people, who willingly walk over a rope 1 km above the surface, valuing the possibility to cross the space between two mountain peaks and accepting the risk of falling over.

    Yes, the US is rugged, dirty, hairy. Yes, there is poverty, yes, there is crime, yes, there is corruption - more than in some of the other First World countries. But at the same time, it is also a land where a dream can truly be realized, it is a land where you can express your opinion without the fear of being punished for speaking out, it is a land where every person is a master of their fate, where everyone can fail terribly, but also succeed immensely. 

    This system is not for everyone, and I completely understand people who would prefer there to be a more Scandinavian-like system, for example. But there are already Scandinavian systems out there; it is not too hard to immigrate there, if the soul so desires. We need both free systems, and safe systems, so people could have a choice. Employing the same model everywhere and not offering any variety would simply make a lot of people unhappy, while the current situation lets everyone choose the system to their taste and move there with little to no negative consequences.
    Applesauce
Sign In or Register to comment.

Back To Top

DebateIsland.com

| The Best Online Debate Experience!
© 2023 DebateIsland.com, all rights reserved. DebateIsland.com | The Best Online Debate Experience! Debate topics you care about in a friendly and fun way. Come try us out now. We are totally free!

Contact us

customerservice@debateisland.com
Terms of Service

Get In Touch