Where are the kneeling protesters?

AmericanFurryBoy

All protesting with people like Jussie

TKDB

@AmericanFurryBoy

"All protesting with people like Jussie"

Where's your visual evidence to support your individual statement? 

Zombieguy1987

TKDB said:

To protest, the non race on race crimes?

To protest, the race on race crimes?

To protest, the drunk drivers who have been driving while drunk for decades? 

To protest, the drugged driver's who have been driving around in the various neighborhoods for a while now, while high on weed, heroin, meth, and cocaine, and abused prescription drugs?

To protest, the illegal drug users drug use around the youth, and their families?

To protest, some of the illegal aliens/ immigrants, who have been in the United States illegally for decades now, and for committing their various crimes as well?

Why does it maybe seem like some things get purposefully protested over, while on the other hand, some of the above situations seem to go unprosteted, as if they've barely happened, or are maybe being consciously ignored altogether? 

Rambling with their false complaints of racism, sexism etc. on social media instead of actually protesting real sexism, racism etc that's happening around the world

Plaffelvohfen

@TKDB

Well, looks like you've found some issues about which to kneel for in protest... Good! Go on, ignite the nation, raise your banner and kneel! 

MayCaesar

There is a commonly used joke: "rules exist so they can be broken". I do not think this holds true, but I do think that "traditions exist so they can be broken" is true.

Any tradition, by definition, is an act that has no practical benefit, yet is done as a symbolic gesture at something from the long past. It is irrational, irrelevant and should not be a very serious thing in the modern world.

So, when the tradition says that you should stand up during a national anthem - what do you do? Anything other than that. The anthem is just a song, not even that good a song (the anthem of Georgia, at least, sounds awesome, yet country-wide we have this outdated simplistic melody). Revering a song makes little sense, and if you do choose to revere it, then at least do not embarrass yourself by putting it on a display.

I would not stand up to an anthem not even out of protest against some country-wide issue. I would not stand up to an anthem simply out of protest to standing up to an anthem. I am not religious, I do not believe in shamanism and spirituality, so I do not see how doing something in response to an anthem leads anywhere.

I would not kneel though, unlike these people. I would do something more original. Maybe pull out my guitar and improvise over the melody - that would be something!

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

What's stopping you from organizing a protest, to protest any of these situations? 

To protest, the non race on race crimes?

To protest, the race on race crimes?

To protest, the drunk drivers who have been driving while drunk for decades? 

To protest, the drugged driver's who have been driving around in the various neighborhoods for a while now, while high on weed, heroin, meth, and cocaine, and abused prescription drugs?

To protest, the illegal drug users drug use around the youth, and their families?

To protest, some of the illegal aliens/ immigrants, who have been in the United States illegally for decades now, and for committing their various crimes as well? 

Plaffelvohfen

@TKDB

Besides, are kneeling protesters any different from marching protesters or standing protesters or sitting protesters?
Why are you asking precisely for "kneeling" protesters? 

Are you discriminating between types of protesters?? 

Now this is worth kneeling for!

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

"Are you discriminating between types of protesters??  "

Again, why does it maybe seem like some things get purposefully protested over, while on the other hand, some of the above situations seem to go unprosteted, as if they've barely happened, or are maybe being consciously ignored altogether? 

Are the non race on race crimes and its brutality, not worthy of being protested over? 

Are the race on race crimes and its brutality, not worthy of being protested over?

Or are any of the above, not worthy of being protested over because of how some individually view law enforcement?

Of the above, who has committed the most crimes? 

The non race on race criminal offenders?

The race on race criminal offenders?

Or some of law enforcement has? 

TKDB

Hoping that this information can maybe convey both sides of this conversation:

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

From the webpage:

"Murder

Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Victim by Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Offender, 2016

[Single victim/single offender] "

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org

From the weekend:

Police killed 1,147 people in 2017. Black people were 25% of those killed despite being only 13% of the population."

WordsMatter

@TKDB discrediting a protest or effort on something by providing examples of other things that could be protested is not a valid discreditation. Is there Susan G Koman foundation bad because they don't raise money for victims of drunk drivers? Is MADD bad because they don't educate people on illegal immigration? 

I've found the way to argue with you is not too fall for or engage in your points, but instead to point out the logical fallacies of your arguments, as almost every argument I have ever seen you make on this site is one type of fallacy or another

This is a false dilemma fallacy. You present an argument that people can either protest police violence or any of the causes you listed when in reality people can protest for many causes and do. As well as the false dilemma idea that something must be protested to be cared about. Cancer isn't protested yet most Americans care about it. Protesting is used in specific places for specific reasons and you can't generalize it to everything that you think is wrong with the world.

As well as a red hearing if I've ever seen one. Decrying BLM because of some other issue is even used as an example in this one.

The Red Herring (also, Distraction): An irrelevant argument, attempting to mislead and distract an audience by bringing up an unrelated but emotionally loaded issue. E.g., "In regard to my several bankruptcies and recent indictment for corruption let’s be straight up about what’s really important: Terrorism!  Just look at what happened last week in [name the place]. Vote for me and I'll fight those terrorists anywhere in the world!"  Also applies to raising unrelated issues as falsely opposing the issue at hand, e.g., "You say 'Black Lives Matter,' but I would rather say 'Climate Change Matters!'" when the two contentions are in no way opposed, only competing for attention. See also Availability Bias, and Dog Whistle Politics.

Plaffelvohfen

@TKDB

Here's some food for thoughts: Whataboutism 

This explains the fallacy you're burying yourself under...

TKDB

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/all-kneeling-ignores-real-cause-soaring-black-homicides-10655.html

"All That Kneeling Ignores the Real Cause of Soaring Black Homicides"

"The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 on Monday, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend.

Violent crime has now risen by a significant amount for two consecutive years.

Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population.

The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.

Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks.

In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to The Washington Post. The paper categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest."

The above is very telling, and educational as well. 

WordsMatter

@TKDB I hope you can see the irony in marking my post that clearly lays out your fallacies as a fallacy. Please inform me of the fallacy I committed as I like to hone my debate skills to avoid using fallacies. Here's a list of over 100 fallacies to help you. All fallacies can fall under about 30 different types but they really break it down for you to get very specific. 

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

TKDB

Maybe when it comes to protesting, an individual can maybe be selective in what to protest over, verses what to not protest over? 

How do some maybe go about protesting "police brutality" only, when there is non race on race criminal brutality, and race on race brutality are going on as well? 

Can anyone explain that hypocrisy?

Or is there maybe a power to be had by being quiet, over non race on race criminal brutality, and the race on race brutality, and just protest police brutality only?

Or in other words, it's unjustifiable to protest non race on race criminal brutality, and race on race criminal brutality, but its self justifiable to protest police brutality only, when it comes to deciding what to protest over? 

Can anyone explain that?

TKDB

@WordsMatter

Why don't you debate over the given debate, instead of pushing your "Fallacy" rhetoric as your counter debate tactic?

Non race on race criminal brutality, and race on race criminal brutality occurred today, and you want to push the word "fallacy over the brutality of people killing people?"

What's more important, protesting the criminal brutality known as murder?

 Or protesting a conversation with the Fallacy word?

@WordsMatter

Are you maybe being a biased protester? 

TKDB

@WordsMatter

Do you maybe, view this information from the FBI as being untrue, or as a fallacy, because it relevant to this specific debate? 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

"Murder

Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Victim by Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Offender, 2016

[Single victim/single offender] " 

What about this websites information?

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

"From the weekend:

Police killed 1,147 people in 2017. Black people were 25% of those killed despite being only 13% of the population."

@WordsMatter ;

Do you maybe view this information as well as untrue, or as a fallacy? 

WordsMatter

@TKDB I can't engage in debate with someone employing logical fallacies. By their nature fallacies result either from a conscious attempt to deceive or an ignorance on the subject. However I am debating the topic at hand. You presented an argument, I pointed out it's clearly fallacious, that in and of itself counters the points you tried to make as they aren't grounded in any sort of logic. Now you try to make a fallacy seem like something I just made up. There is a reason their is a button for it on this site and it's something you would learn in any intro to debate course.

Again you are employing another red herring. You are attempting to change the topic from "why do people protest for police brutality but not drink drivers etc." To the topic of protesting police brutality vs all murders.

Also another false dichotomy was presented by you. "How do some maybe go about protesting "police brutality" only, when there is non race on race criminal brutality, and race on race brutality are going on as well?" Why do you present the argument as an either or? Why can't an individual protest both? On that matter how do you know that all people protesting police brutality ONLY protest that.

Yes you give statistics on murder but that doesn't provide me any evidence that the people that protest police brutality do ONLY that. All you managed to do is show that murders happen to all races, but that offers me nothing to say that the "kneeling protesters" as you put in your title, are not protesting in any of the places that you listed in your first post. Show me somewhere where the "kneeling protesters" have stated that they have no concern with anything else.

TKDB

@WordsMatter

Taking the sugar coating off of the debate, and spelling the brutality out for you.

Scraping the fallacy argument as well.

When a Caucasian individual murders another Caucasian individual, do you find that race on race brutality, as unimportant, and not worthy of protesting over? 

When an African American individual murders another African American individual, do you find that race on race on race brutality, as unimportant, and not worthy of protesting over?

How about this :

Say hypothetically speaking, an African American police officer, ends up shooting an African American offender, and the African American offender died, because the offender was committing a crime, is that African American police officer going to get protested over by another African American? 

Or say hypothetically speaking, a Caucasian police officer, ends up shooting a Caucasian offender, and the Caucasian offender died, because the offender was committing a crime, is that Caucasians police officer going to get protested over by another Caucasian individual?

You tell me, who of the above, do you view as worthy of being protested over because of the brutality? 

WordsMatter

@TKDB start from the very basic level here. You make a claim, that the people who kneel do not protest anything else. Give me evidence for that claim. 

BTW, I don't not commit the fallacy fallacy, as I never said your conclusion was wrong based on your fallacies, but that your evidence was fallacious and I am asking for non fallacious evidence to back up your claim that the people who kneel don't protest anything else.

TKDB

@WordsMatter

I'm not giving you anything.

You figure it out.

Taking the sugar coating off of the debate, and spelling the brutality out for you.

Scraping the fallacy argument as well.

When a Caucasian individual murders another Caucasian individual, do you find that race on race brutality, as unimportant, and not worthy of protesting over? 

When an African American individual murders another African American individual, do you find that race on race on race brutality, as unimportant, and not worthy of protesting over?

How about this :

Say hypothetically speaking, an African American police officer, ends up shooting an African American offender, and the African American offender died, because the offender was committing a crime, is that African American police officer going to get protested over by another African American? 

Or say hypothetically speaking, a Caucasian police officer, ends up shooting a Caucasian offender, and the Caucasian offender died, because the offender was committing a crime, is that Caucasians police officer going to get protested over by another Caucasian individual?

You tell me, who of the above, do you view as worthy of being protested over because of the brutality? 

WordsMatter

@TKDB the entire point of debating is to give evidence to back up your claim. Get off the site if you just want to make claims and never give evidence.

You make this exceptionally easy. I hope you are learning today.

• Onus probandi – from the Latin onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, not on the person who denies (or questions the claim). It is a particular case of the argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, here the burden is shifted on the person defending against the assertion. Also known as "shifting the burden of proof".

TKDB

fal·la·cious

Dictionary result for fallacious

/fəˈlāSHəs/

adjective

1. based on a mistaken belief.

   "fallacious arguments"

   synonyms:

   erroneous, false, untrue, wrong, incorrect, faulty, flawed, inaccurate, inexact, imprecise, mistaken, misinformed, misguided, misleading, deceptive, delusive, delusory, illusory, sophistic, specious, fictitious, spurious, fabricated, distorted, made up, trumped up;

TKDB

@WordsMatter

"but that your evidence was fallacious and I am asking for non fallacious evidence to back up your claim that the people who kneel don't protest anything else."

Some of the information I shared was from an FBI website.

Are you labelling the FBI information as fallacious?

"Murder

Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Victim by Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Offender, 2016

[Single victim/single offender] " 

Some of the information I shared was from this website: 

Mappingpoliceviolance.org.

Are you labelling this information from that website as fallacious?:

"From the Weekend:

Police killed 1,147 people in 2017. Black people were 25% of those killed despite being only 13% of the population."

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/all-kneeling-ignores-real-cause-soaring-black-homicides-10655.html

Are you labelling this information from this website as fallacious? 

"All That Kneeling Ignores the Real Cause of Soaring Black Homicides"

"The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 on Monday, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend.

Violent crime has now risen by a significant amount for two consecutive years.

Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population.

The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.

Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks.

In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to The Washington Post. The paper categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest. 

@WordsMatter
So in your view, of the above information, what individually do you view as non fallacious, or fallacious? 

WordsMatter

@TKDB "Where Are The Kneeling Protestors?

To protest, the non race on race crimes?

To protest, the race on race crimes?

To protest, the drunk drivers who have been driving while drunk for decades? 

To protest, the drugged driver's who have been driving around in the various neighborhoods for a while now, while high on weed, heroin, meth, and cocaine, and abused prescription drugs?

To protest, the illegal drug users drug use around the youth, and their families?

To protest, some of the illegal aliens/ immigrants, who have been in the United States illegally for decades now, and for committing their various crimes as well?

Why does it maybe seem like some things get purposefully protested over, while on the other hand, some of the above situations seem to go unprosteted, as if they've barely happened, or are maybe being consciously ignored altogether? "

Absolutely none of what you just put supports the claim that the kneeling protestors aren't involved in any of these cases. This was your original argument correct?

WordsMatter

@TKDB here is Kaepernick's official site. The following link details many of the different charities he has worked with, the vast majority of which are not dealing with police brutality.

https://kaepernick7.com/blogs/million-dollar-pledge

TKDB

@WordsMatter

here is Kaepernick's official site. The following link details many of the different charities he has worked with, the vast majority of which are not dealing with police brutality.

I'm not looking at the website, I've seen plenty via various news media outlets already for how many years now? 

Zombieguy1987

TKDB said:

@WordsMatter

"but that your evidence was fallacious and I am asking for non fallacious evidence to back up your claim that the people who kneel don't protest anything else."

Some of the information I shared was from an FBI website.

Are you labelling the FBI information as fallacious?

"Murder

Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Victim by Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Offender, 2016

[Single victim/single offender] " 

Some of the information I shared was from this website: 

Mappingpoliceviolance.org.

Are you labelling this information from that website as fallacious?:

"From the Weekend:

Police killed 1,147 people in 2017. Black people were 25% of those killed despite being only 13% of the population."

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/all-kneeling-ignores-real-cause-soaring-black-homicides-10655.html

Are you labelling this information from this website as fallacious? 

"All That Kneeling Ignores the Real Cause of Soaring Black Homicides"

"The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 on Monday, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend.

Violent crime has now risen by a significant amount for two consecutive years.

Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population.

The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.

Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks.

In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to The Washington Post. The paper categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest. 

This argument of yours is irrelevant 

@WordsMatter
So in your view, of the above information, what individually do you view as non fallacious, or fallacious? 

Plaffelvohfen

TKDB said:

@WordsMatter

I'm not looking at the website, I've seen plenty via various news media outlets already for how many years now? 

Damn, you've surpassed yourself here... You have a chance to see for yourself what it's all about (Kaepernick), right at the source, read a bit, even write your questions directly in an email or something, and yet you refuse to and are instead devoted to put a lot of effort (years you say) into cherry picking unrelated sad stories, out of an absurd amount of, probably obscure, news sources, in order to what? Construct yourself a delusion that would somehow excuse you from having absolutely nothing relevant to say about why he's kneeling?????   

 

TKDB

@WordsMatter

@Zombieguy1987

@Plaffelvohfen

Found this website by googling this question: 

Blacks killing blacks?

https://www-theroot-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.theroot.com/why-we-never-talk-about-black-on-black-crime-an-answer-1819092337/amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE=#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.theroot.com/why-we-never-talk-about-black-on-black-crime-an-answer-1819092337 

Some excerpts from the article:

"Why we never talk about Black-on- Black Crime: An Answer To White America's Most Pressing Question"

You’ve heard it before. It is the most frequent response to any accusation of police brutality. It is the repeated sleight of hand used to distract and drown out the voices of Black Lives Matter. It is an oft-used “alt-right” refrain and a sincere query from curious white questioners. It is the weapon of choice for the black practitioners of respectability politics and the favorite follow-up for people who frame their arguments with the preamble, “Not all white people ... ”

"Why don’t black people ever talk about black-on-black crime?

Instead of rejecting the entire notion as a method of deflection and privilege, we will attempt to formally dismiss the conversation forever by laying out the facts about why white America never hears us talk about black-on-black crime."

"It’s not a thing.

According to the FBI’s uniform crime-reporting data for 2016, 90.1 percent of black victims of homicide were killed by other blacks, while 83.5 percent of whites were killed by other whites. While no life is inconsequential, the statistical evidence shows that—just as for blacks when it comes to black-on-black crime—whites are mostly victimized by other whites, with the vast majority of white murders committed by whites. This is because most victims of crime personally know their assailants. And while this is a truth across racial boundaries, no one ever talks about “white-on-white crime.”

Furthermore, the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ arrest data analysis tool shows that less than 1 percent of blacks overall (about 2 percent of black men) commit a violent crime in any given year. This means, factoring in interracial violent offenses, 99 percent of black men do not commit black-on-black crime."

"It has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Imagine the head of Homeland Security walking up to the microphone to hold a press conference after a horrific terrorist attack, but when reporters start asking him about stopping terrorism and catching the culprits, he begins talking about texting and driving.

Sounds , right?

But distracted driving kills more Americans each year than terrorism (and black-on-black crime), according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, so, according to the advocates of conversations about black-on-black crime, we should be discussing this first."

"It is true that the vast majority of black murders are committed by black men, and we should do something to combat that statistic (we will get to that later, I promise), but that fact has nothing to do with state violence. When anyone interrupts a discussion about Black Lives Matter by bringing up black-on-black crime, it sounds as as if a doctor addressed a cancerous brain tumor by asking about domestic violence, or if America’s highest-ranking government official addressed white supremacist Nazi-palooza by talking about the so-called alt-left and the “very fine” tiki-torch carriers.

No one would ever be that .

We actually do talk about it ... all the time.

It is perfectly understandable why white America assumes that black people don’t talk about black-on-black crime. However, the reason they make this assumption dates to a quote found in recently uncovered papers from an unnamed woman archaeological and historical researchers refer to as “Grandmama”:

“It ain’t none of their damn business.”

The reality is, in neighborhoods and cities across America, there are countless organizations, activists and movements dedicated to curbing violence in black communities. The number of “Stop the Violence” marches dwarfs the demonstrations against police brutality. Unity rallies and peace picnics happen every day. Scared Straight programs for at-risk youths, gang counseling, neighborhood watches, intervention specialists, youth counselors, and too many other people and groups to name all lead the charge against crime and violence."

"But those efforts don’t make the evening news because they aren’t as salacious as people blocking traffic and protesting; nor do they serve the preconceived white confirmation bias. Besides, there’s no way white people would know about this unless they stopped deflecting with trite questions and instead actually went into a minority neighborhood to selflessly join the effort to address the problems plaguing ...

OK, you can stop laughing now.

OK, let’s talk about black-on-black crime.

Both sociologists and criminologists agree that violent crime is a complex socioeconomic phenomenon. Generally speaking, research shows that poor people commit the most crime: According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, during the period from 2008 through 2012, “persons in poor households at or below the federal poverty level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000) ... The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks.”

"Knowing this, the small difference in crime rates can easily be explained by income disparity. Maybe the question should be why are such a large percentage of black people poor?

As a matter of fact, if we are going to derail a conversation about black lives to talk about black-on-black crime, there are a few other questions we should answer first:

Why is the rate of violence actually higheramong poor, urban whites? Why don’t we ever discuss the economic impact of redlining and segregation on rates of violence?

If we are going to discuss the number of black people killed by blacks, should we discuss the number of white people murdered, raped and assaulted by fellow whites? Will this conversation include a debate about how blacks are arrested, incarcerated and sentenced for longer periods than whites for committing the same crimes?

Are you willing to detour into a brief explanation of why schools with large percentages of blacks are underfunded even though they have the same tax base and incomes? Do you have time to talk about the wage gap? Unemployment disparities?

All of these factors contribute to crime rates. So if you want to have a conversation about black-on-black crime, you should be careful, because, like most conversations about race, it will end up back in the same place:

White supremacy."

My question in regards to the above:

What does the conversation in regards to (White supremacy) have to do with Black on Black crime? 

TKDB

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/why-doesnt-black-lives-matter-doesnt-focus-talk-about-black-black-crime/87609692/

Some excerpts from the article:

"Why Black Lives Matter doesn't focus on ‘black-on-black’ crime"

"The Black Lives Matter movement is in the national spotlight again this month, following the high-profile killings of two black men by police and the killings of police officers by black men in Dallas and Baton Rouge.

With the movement’s attention comes a familiar refrain: Why doesn’t Black Lives Matter focus on “black-on-black” crime?"

"It’s a question asked, in various forms, from Facebook to cable networks to comments on this site. The answer, one writer says, is Black Lives Matter isn’t solely focused on the loss of black lives but also on a lack of justice."

“When a civilian has committed a violent crime, they’re generally arrested, tried and then convicted,” Franchesca Ramsey, a writer and activist who discusses race, explains in the MTV series Decoded(which you can watch here in full).

“Conversely, there’s a lot of evidence that it’s very rare to secure an indictment against a police officer for excessive force. And an indictment is just a trial; it isn’t even a conviction.”

“Black Lives Matter isn’t just about the loss of life, which is always terrible. It’s about the lack of consequences when black lives are taken at the hands of police.”

"Police officers shot and killed nearly 1,000 people last year, according to a Washington Post database. Eighteen officers faced charges for such shootings that year.

While nearly twice as many white Americans were killed by on-duty officers than blacks, the Post’supdated data showed, black Americans remained 2.5 times as likely to die at the hands of police when adjusting for population.

And when unarmed, the data showed that black Americans were five times as likely to be fatally shot as white ones.

Black Americans do find violence within the black community troubling: A YouGov poll from April shows a plurality of black Americans think it’s a bigger problem than racial injustice, as Vox’s Victoria M. Massie notes.

"(The) survey underscores what the people in these communities have long argued — that police brutality and crime are not mutually exclusive concerns for African Americans," she wrote."

Black Americans have launched anti-violence efforts in their communities (Ramsey mentions a PBS documentary about them, The Interruptors). But many in the Black Lives Matter movement have described "black-on-black" criticisms a diversion that ignores underlying issues like poverty.

“What we know is that gun violence absolutely presents tragedy every single day,” said Brittany Packnett, a prominent voice in the movement, on PBS NewsHour in December. “But if black life really matters to people … who insist that black-on-black crime is the real issue, then pay attention to poverty." 

Poor white Americans experience violent crimes at rates virtually equal that of poor black Americans, as Massie points out in a 2014 Department of Justice study. Black and white Americans kill members of their own races at similar rates, too.

According to 2014 FBI data, 90% of African-American homicides were committed by African Americans. Similarly, 82% of white American homicides were committed by white Americans—what we might, but don’t, call “white-on-white” crime.

The difference: More than one in four black Americans live in areas of extreme poverty, according to a 2015 Century Foundation study. Only one in 13 whites live in such areas."

The above is both educational, and telling.

"(The) survey underscores what the people in these communities have long argued — that police brutality and crime are not mutually exclusive concerns for African Americans," she wrote.

Black Americans have launched anti-violence efforts in their communities (Ramsey mentions a PBS documentary about them, The Interruptors). But many in the Black Lives Matter movement have described "black-on-black" criticisms a diversion that ignores underlying issues like poverty.

A question for the above information:

(Police brutality and crime are not mutually exclusive concerns for African Americans.

Black Americans have launched anti violence efforts in their communities about them. But many in the Black Lives Matter movement have described "black-on-black" criticisms a diversion that ignores underlying issues like poverty.)

What does "poverty" have to do with black on black crimes?

In the same instance, how, or what does "poverty" have to do with white on white crimes?

One would think, that any kind of a crime in general, being committed, by any individual of any culture, would view crime as troubling, whether Caucasian, African American, or what have you?

Caucasian on Caucasian gun violence brutality, isn't troubling?

African American on African American gun violence brutality, isn't troubling?

Gun violence brutality, in general, isn't troubling?

Along with robberies, carjackings, muggings, sexual assaults, and home invasions via gun violence brutality, aren't all troubling brutalities? 

How can an individual go about viewing gun violence brutality, as being separate from crime in general, that doesn't make sense.

MayCaesar

Your point seems to be that we should never protest on narrow issues, and only protest on global, inclusive issues. For example, instead of protesting on "white on black police brutality", you would say that we should protest on violence in general.

This is not a terribly illogical point of view, but it is quite a bit impractical. You are not going to accomplish a lot if you only protest on generalized problems. If you go outside holding a "Stop violence!" sign, then nobody will even understand what it is exactly you are protesting against. People do not like to talk about general issues; they like to talk about things that hold close to their hearts. Violence period does not make me feel any different. Violence of lions on gazelles during the mating season of the latter - now this is something more concrete, this is something we can have a serious discussion about.

I do not like the BLM semi-organization, especially their methods of protesting (blocking a highway to make a political point is no bueno). At the same time, saying that their cause is irrelevant just because "white on black police brutality" is not the only type of brutality in this society is illogical. I myself am against including racially charged rhetoric into the political discourse, but there are better ways to voice this concern than just calling them hypocrites.

TKDB

@MayCaesar

You missed the overall point completely.

How do some go about protesting police brutality almost exclusively, when criminals of various cultures have engaged in gun violence brutality as well?

That's a double standard, isn't it? 

Apparently it's appropriate to some, via their double standard mindsets to protest police brutality, but it's inappropriate to protest Caucasian on Caucasian gun violence brutality, or African American on African American gun violence brutality? 

Collectively, more Caucasian offenders, and African American offenders have engaged in gun violence brutality more than some of the individual police officers have?

I've yet to see any protesters, protesting in the streets against Caucasian on Caucasian gun violence brutality, or African American on African American gun violence brutality?

Can anyone explain that?

(Black Americans have launched anti violence efforts in their communities about them. But many in the Black Lives Matter movement have described "black-on-black" criticisms a diversion that ignores underlying issues like poverty.)

What does "poverty" have to do with black on black crimes?

In the same instance, how, or what does "poverty" have to do with white on white crimes?

Can anyone explain that?

And again, one would think, that any kind of a crime in general, being committed, by any individual of any culture, would view crime as troubling, whether Caucasian, African American, or what have you?

Caucasian on Caucasian gun violence brutality, isn't troubling?

African American on African American gun violence brutality, isn't troubling?

Gun violence brutality, in general, isn't troubling?

Along with robberies, carjackings, muggings, sexual assaults, and home invasions via gun violence brutality, aren't all troubling brutalities? 

How can an individual go about viewing gun violence brutality, as being separate from crime in general, that doesn't make sense.

Can anyone explain that? 

And again, what does the conversation in regards to (White supremacy) have to do with Black on Black crime? 

Can anyone explain that as well?