Trans Women are Real Women (Equal to Cis Women) Change My Mind

jesusisGod777

Identity is not effected by decision. I could go into explanation sourcing the DSM-IV.

jesusisGod777

So assessing the logical explanation of Gender, the actual term determines that gender must first exist as the basis for the argument.

Since gender defines the sex of a person, whatever is the natural result of a person's gender as it is determined at birth is what is considered to be their natural gender.

Any control over or alteration to a gender is unnatural as it is a force d outcome.

AlexOland

@Maddy_Sindel ;

A trans woman's body does not define her gender because sex and gender are two independent classifications.

 Well, what is "gender" supposed to mean then, exactly? If you can just decide what your gender is, it kind of loses its meaning doesn't it? Being a "woman" has nearly no meaning in your definition of it. 

Gender: Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. 

 This definition has a clear meaning and a purpose. Rather than your definition of: "I wanna be a woman today so I am one.".

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 I am okay with trans people. They can do whatever they want. But they should not go around telling people they are "real women" and they should not expect people to take that request naturally. A woman is not just someone who thinks she is a woman. There are many biological, cultural, social, psychological factors involved. 

 What I do not understand is: Why does this matter so much? Why do they want to be considered real women? What will that achieve? What is wrong with being called trans? You are man who acts like a woman, is this not the case? Then isn't "trans" a proper word to define your situation?

all4actt

I have no problem with a biological man who believes he is a woman changing their apperance, behavior or even calling themself a woman. If that is what makes them more comfortable and happy, more power to them.

The only problem I have is in the area of sports.  

Whether they consider themselves women or not they still have the biological advantages of a man.  The advantages that are inherent in the biological make up of a man is why there is a seperation of men and women sports. So it is unfair to allow a biological man to claim himself a woman and then compelete against biological women.

jesusisGod777

Let me make it simple.The Natural orginazation of an organism is determined at a genetic level, the defining feature of Gender.

You are genetically predisposed on a genetic level to be a man or a woman. You remain genetically a man or a women based on what you genetically are.

If you cutting away parts that doesn't change your biology.

Do you people think?

Dee

@jesusisGod777


You say ......If you cutting away parts that doesn't change your biology

My reply ......What if your weren’t born with certain body parts as in the way you were born without a brain? 

MayCaesar

I think people are too attached to the idea of absolute unconditional equality today and are prone to apply it where it is not applicable.

First of all, "real woman" is a very vague term. Are there unreal women? "Woman" is just a way to classify people. This classification can be done in many ways, some of which are by biological gender and by gender identity - that lead to different results.
Personally, to me a trans woman is just a woman period, and I do not care what she looked like in the past or what biological chromosomes she has. But that is just my perspective: I see no reason to think otherwise in a practical interaction. Other people can have their own views on this. Trans-women do not get to dictate how others label them, just as other people do not get to dictate how they labels themselves.

Next, the idea that there is no practical difference between a cis-woman and a trans-woman is not required to be accepted in order for the trans-people to be treated equally with others. Whether you are called a woman, a trans-woman, a man or just a trans-person - what does it really matter? You are who you are. We are all unique human beings. If someone calls me a man, or a woman, or a scorpion, or whatever - it does not really change who I am.
Labels do not have much power in themselves; they only have much power when people agree that they do.
There is nothing wrong with seeing trans-women as just women - but there is also nothing wrong with seeing them as men, or with seeing them as something in between, or with seeing them as both, or with seeing them as neither. They are humans, just like everyone else, and everything else is secondary.

Finally, regardless of what you believe in, there are norms of human decency. If someone wants to be called a woman, even if you do not see them as a woman - why not still play along? If it is a big deal for them, but not a big deal for you (why would it be?), then just call them what they want to be called. Remember those times at school when kids gave each other insulting nicknames? Was unpleasant, right? Well, it is the same here. If someone feels terrible when you see them as a man, then why not act as if you saw them as a woman? There is nothing to be lost here, but a lot to be gained, including interaction with people who think very differently from you - expanding your horizon and opening your mind for new ideas.

I have several trans-woman friends, and I see them as women period. The fact that their chromosomes do not match the biological standard does not affect me in the slightest; why would I ever care about someone's chromosomes? They look like women, act like women, talk like women - so they are women. If someone wants to call them men based on their biology or a birth certificate, then whatever, feel free to - but me, I prefer to judge people based on the relevant aspects of their appearance and behavior, not on some abstract biological concepts.

WinstonC

@Maddy_Sindel "A trans woman should not have to "Pass" as a woman on the outside in order to be considered a woman."

All people should be treated with decency and common courtesy, and I am perfectly willing to call people whatever they want to be called. However, nobody has the right to decide what other people think about them. Personally, I consider the category "woman" synonymous with "biological woman"; I fundamentally don't view the category in terms of appearance or social roles.