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Should infanticide be permitted in certain cases?

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Philosopher Peter  Singer weighed the moral justifications for taking the lives of disabled babies. He concluded that in severe cases, such as for children with spina bifida, it might well be morally wrong not to take a baby’s life. For less serious conditions, such as hemophilia, Singer concluded that the decision as to whether or not to kill the infant should depend on whether it would make the parents happy, and whether they intended to “replace” the child with another, non-disabled one
ZeusAres42



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  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 3985 Pts   -  
    No, considering 90% of cases can be detected before 18 weeks of pregnancy, what would be immoral would be to go through the pregnancy and knowingly give birth in such a case, an abortion would be the moral choice imo... After birth, the individual is a citizen with all the entailed rights, being physically disabled is not justification enough to induce death without consent...

    Peter Singer is the father of the animal rights movement, right? I don't accept his arguments as valid in either case (animal rights or here).
    ZeusAres42
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    I'm pro unborn baby.

    I believe that adoption, is a better option, when it comes to abortion, or infanticide.
    PlaffelvohfenYeshuaBought
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited August 2019


    You say ....

    No, considering 90% of cases can be detected before 18 weeks of pregnancy,

    My reply .....I agree that a high percentage can indeed be detected and I’m sure many take the early option , yet there are those who go ahead and only after having the child realize how profound the disabilities are.

    One can safely say the chances such a child being adopted are narrow , in the case of the child being taken into state care what is the point if the child’s life is already one which is going to be one of misery and suffering how would state care be a humane solution to the the situation.

    I’m not saying you suggested such but what is the best solution in your opinion and why? 

    You say .....what would be immoral would be to go through the pregnancy and knowingly give birth in such a case, an abortion would be the moral choice

    My reply .......I disagree , a friend of mine and his wife were told that their child could  be born severely mentally handicapped they both disagree with abortion , I advised my friend when he asked my opinion but he couldn’t bring himself to carry out this decision.
    In a way I admire that he stuck to his principles but the thing is both he and his wife regret it as their whole quality of life has been ruined , every penny they get has to go into securing care for that child’s future while their other children are denied several things that would benefit his life , that’s 5 lives being ruined  on account of the needs of one who is also suffering but they are paying for the privilege of watching him suffer 

    You say .......After birth, the individual is a citizen with all the entailed rights, being physically disabled is not justification enough to induce death without consent... 

    My reply .....I think it is , it’s actually the humane thing to do when one can see that the child will have a life filled with suffering 

    You say ......Peter Singer is the father of the animal rights movement, right? I don't accept his arguments as valid in either case (animal rights or here).

    My reply .....Right , I like his reasoning but then again  morality is like a pair of spectacles we all see it our own way 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    The question didn’t ask you that you idiotic creature 
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    in·fan·ti·cide
    /inˈfan(t)əˌsīd/
    noun
    1. 1.
      the crime of killing a child within a year of birth.


    No @Dee, It should not be allowed.
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say ......No @Dee, It should not be allowed.


    Why? 
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Because, by definition, its murder.
    Dee
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    On Peter Singer

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer

    "Peter Albert David SingerAC (born 6 July 1946) is an Australian moral philosopher. He is the Ira W. DeCamp Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University, and a Laureate Professor at the Centre for Applied Philosophy and Public Ethics at the University of Melbourne. He specialises in applied ethics and approaches ethical issues from a secularutilitarian perspective. He is known in particular for his book Animal Liberation (1975), in which he argues in favour of veganism, and his essay "Famine, Affluence, and Morality", in which he argues in favour of donating to help the global poor. For most of his career, he was a preference utilitarian, but he stated in The Point of View of the Universe (2014), coauthored with Katarzyna de Lazari-Radek, that he had become a hedonistic utilitarian. "

    "On two occasions, Singer served as chair of the philosophy department at Monash University, where he founded its Centre for Human Bioethics. In 1996 he stood unsuccessfully as a Greens candidate for the Australian Senate. In 2004 Singer was recognised as the Australian Humanist of the Year by the Council of Australian Humanist Societies. In 2005, the Sydney Morning Herald placed him among Australia's ten most influential public intellectuals.[3]Singer is a cofounder of Animals Australia and the founder of The Life You Can Save.[4] "




  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @TKDB

    You say .....Because, by definition, its murder

    My reply ......By my definition it’s an act of mercy and kindness 
    TKDB
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    You say .....Because, by definition, its murder
     
    My reply ......By my definition it’s an act of mercy and kindness 

    Well then, that individual ideology, is a troubling concept, and likely, a divisive ideology as well. 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say .......Well then, that individual ideology, is a troubling concept, and likely, a divisive ideology as well. 

    My reply .....Troubling for you and your type who would sooner see a child suffer horribly because you believe something is morally wrong but cannot explain why it’s wrong 
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    Are you a Pediatrician, or a Doctor?

    Well then, that individual ideology, is a troubling concept, and likely, a divisive ideology as well. 

    "My reply .....Troubling for you and your type who would sooner see a child suffer horribly because you believe something is morally wrong but cannot explain why it’s wrong"

    My type?

    Your verbal broad brush, is sad.

    "Female infanticide is the deliberate killing of newborn female children. In countries with a history of female infanticide, the modern practice of sex-selective abortion is often discussed as a closely related issue. Female infanticide is a major cause of concern in several nations such as China and India."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide#Modern_times

    "Infanticide (or infant homicide) is the intentional killing of infants.

    Parental infanticide researchers have found that mothers are far more likely than fathers to be the perpetrators of neonaticide[1] and slightly more likely to commit infanticide in general.[2]

    Anthropologist Laila Williamson notes that "Infanticide has been practiced on every continent and by people on every level of cultural complexity, from hunter gatherers to high civilizations, including our own ancestors. Rather than being an exception, then, it has been the rule."[3]:61

    In many past societies, certain forms of infanticide were considered permissible."


    "Infanticide has become less common in the Western world. The frequency has been estimated to be 1 in approximately 3000 to 5000 children of all ages[119]and 2.1 per 100,000 newborns per year.[120] It is thought that infanticide today continues at a much higher rate in areas of extremely high poverty and overpopulation, such as parts of China and India.[121]Female infants, then and even now, are particularly vulnerable, a factor in sex-selective infanticide. Recent estimates suggest that over 100 million girls and women are 'missing' in Asia.[122]

    Benin

    In spite of the fact that it is illegal, in BeninWest Africa, parents secretly continue with infanticidal customs.[123]

    North Korea

    According to "The Hidden Gulag" published by the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, Mainland China returns all illegal immigrants from North Korea which usually imprisons them in a short term facility. Korean women who are suspected of being impregnated by Chinese fathers are subjected to forced abortions; babies born alive are killed, sometimes by exposure or being buried alive.[124]

    Mainland China

    There have been some accusations that infanticide occurs in Mainland China due to the one-child policy.[125] In the 1990s, a certain stretch of the Yangtze River was known to be a common site of infanticide by drowning, until government projects made access to it more difficult. Recent studies suggest that over 40 million girls and women are 'missing' in Mainland China (Klasen and Wink 2003).[126]

    India

    The practice has continued in some rural areas of India.[127][128] Infanticide is illegal in India.[129]

    According to a recent report by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) up to 50 million girls and women are missing in India's population as a result of systematic sex discrimination and sex selective abortions.[130]

    Pakistan

    Killings of newborn babies have been on the rise in Pakistan, corresponding to an increase in poverty across the country.[131] More than 1,000 infants, mostly girls, were killed or abandoned to die in Pakistan in 2009 according to a Pakistani charity organization.[132]

    The Edhi Foundation found 1,210 dead babies in 2010. Many more are abandoned and left at the doorsteps of mosques. As a result, Edhi centers feature signs "Do not murder, lay them here." Though female infanticide is punishable by life in prison, such crimes are rarely prosecuted.[131]

    Oceania

    In November 2008 it was reported that in Agibu and Amosa villages of Gimi region of Eastern Highlandsprovince of Papua New Guinea where tribal fighting in the region of Gimi has been going on since 1986 (many of the clashes arising over claims of sorcery) women had agreed that if they stopped producing males, allowing only female babies to survive, their tribe's stock of boys would go down and there would be no men in the future to fight. They agreed to have all newborn male babies killed. It is not known how many male babies were killed by being smothered, but it had reportedly happened to all males over a 10-year period and probably was still happening.

    England and Wales

    In England and Wales there were typically 30 to 50 homicides per million children less than 1 year old between 1982 and 1996.[133] The younger the infant, the higher the risk.[133] The rate for children 1 to 5 years was around 10 per million children.[133] The homicide rate of infants less than 1 year is significantly higher than for the general population.[133]

    In English law infanticide is established as a distinct offence by the Infanticide Acts. Defined as the killing of a child under 12 months of age by their mother, the effect of the Acts are to establish a partial defence to charges of murder.[134]

    United States

    In 1983, the United States ranked 11th for infants under 1 year killed, and fourth for those killed from 1 through 14 years (the latter case not necessarily involving filicide).[135] In the U.S. over 600 children were killed by their parents in 1983.[136]

    In the United States the infanticide rate during the first hour of life outside the womb dropped from 1.41 per 100,000 during 1963 to 1972 to 0.44 per 100,000 for 1974 to 1983; the rates during the first month after birth also declined, whereas those for older infants rose during this time.[137] The legalization of abortion, which was completed in 1973, was the most important factor in the decline in neonatal mortality during the period from 1964 to 1977, according to a study by economists associated with the National Bureau of Economic Research.[137][138]

    While legislation regarding infanticide in the majority of Western countries focuses on rehabilitation, believing that treatment and education will prevent repetitive action, the United States remains focused on delivering punishment. One justification for punishment is the difficulty of implementing rehabilitation services. With an overcrowded prison system, the United States can not provide the necessary treatment and services.[139]

    Canada

    In Canada 114 cases of infanticide by a parent were reported during 1964–1968.[140] There is ongoing debate in the Canadian legal and political fields about whether section 237 of the Criminal Code, which creates the specific offence and partial defence of infanticide in Canadian law, should be amended or abolished altogether.[141]

    Spain

    From 2013 to March 2018, 28 infanticides cases done by 22 mothers and three stepmothers were reported in Spain.[142][143] The most famous case was the murder of Bernardo González Parra in 1910 perpetrated by Francisco Leona Romero, Julio Hernández Rodríguez, Francisco Ortega el Moruno and Agustina Rodríguez.[144][145] "



  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -  
    @Dee

    "Neonaticide is the deliberate act of a parentmurdering their own child during the first 24 hours of life.[1][2] As a noun, the word "neonaticide" may also refer to anyone who practices or who has practiced this.

    Neonaticide is relatively rare in developed countries, but most of these murders remain secret:

    ...every year, hundreds of women commit neonaticide: they kill their newborns or let them die. Most neonaticides remain undiscovered, but every once in a while a janitor follows a trail of blood to a tiny body in a trash bin, or a woman faints and doctors find the remains of a placenta inside her.

    — Steven Pinker, The New York Times, 1997[3]

    Neonaticide is considerably more commonly committed by mothers than fathers; infanticide is also more likely to be committed by mothers than fathers. A 1999 United States Department of Justicestudy concluded that between 1976 and 1997 in the United States, mothers were responsible for a higher share of children killed during infancy, while fathers were more likely to have been responsible for the murders of children age eight or older. "

    Dee
  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    What next, old or disabled people? What about racial minorities? What you are asking for is eugenics.
    Dee
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @YeshuaRedeemed

    You say ....What next, old or disabled people?

    My reply ....Absolutely , if they’re in pain and no longer want to suffer ,  you want to force them to live 

    You say ......What about racial minorities? What you are asking for is eugenics

    My reply .....Ah the predictable race card is being played , why would I want to eliminate racial minorities?

    Thinking about it Eugenics would suit that sack of you call your president as he hates blacks, Mexicans and Muslims with a passion 

      I never asked for eugenics maybe you ought the read the debate topic again instead of making typically assertions 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say ....

    Are you a Pediatrician, or a Doctor?

    My reply .....What has that got to do with anything?

    You say......Well then, that individual ideology, is a troubling concept, and likely, a divisive ideology as well. 

    My reply .....Yes you said that several times and merely your inhumane opinion , I’m a humanist who’s interested in alleviating suffering you wish to prolong it 

    You say .....My type?

    My reply .....Your type 

    You say ......Your verbal broad brush, is sad.

    My reply ......Thank you for your assessment Dr Freud . Why are you posting out stats for infanticide I’m not interested you troll 

  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @Dee

    You say ......Your verbal broad brush, is sad.

    "My reply ......Thank you for your assessment Dr Freud . Why are you posting out stats for infanticide I’m not interested you troll."

    I'm a troll, for doing what, providing the below information?

    (Shouldn't the global public, be equally and fairly educated on both sides of the Infanticide and Neonaticide conversations?)

    "Neonaticide is the deliberate act of a parentmurdering their own child during the first 24 hours of life.[1][2] As a noun, the word "neonaticide" may also refer to anyone who practices or who has practiced this.

    Neonaticide is relatively rare in developed countries, but most of these murders remain secret:

    ...every year, hundreds of women commit neonaticide: they kill their newborns or let them die. Most neonaticides remain undiscovered, but every once in a while a janitor follows a trail of blood to a tiny body in a trash bin, or a woman faints and doctors find the remains of a placenta inside her.

    — Steven Pinker, The New York Times, 1997[3]

    Neonaticide is considerably more commonly committed by mothers than fathers; infanticide is also more likely to be committed by mothers than fathers. A 1999 United States Department of Justicestudy concluded that between 1976 and 1997 in the United States, mothers were responsible for a higher share of children killed during infancy, while fathers were more likely to have been responsible for the murders of children age eight or older. " 


    "Female infanticide is the deliberate killing of newborn female children. In countries with a history of female infanticide, the modern practice of sex-selective abortion is often discussed as a closely related issue. Female infanticide is a major cause of concern in several nations such as China and India."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide#Modern_times

    "Infanticide (or infant homicide) is the intentional killing of infants.

    Parental infanticide researchers have found that mothers are far more likely than fathers to be the perpetrators of neonaticide[1] and slightly more likely to commit infanticide in general.[2]

    Anthropologist Laila Williamson notes that "Infanticide has been practiced on every continent and by people on every level of cultural complexity, from hunter gatherers to high civilizations, including our own ancestors. Rather than being an exception, then, it has been the rule."[3]:61

    In many past societies, certain forms of infanticide were considered permissible."


    "Infanticide has become less common in the Western world. The frequency has been estimated to be 1 in approximately 3000 to 5000 children of all ages[119]and 2.1 per 100,000 newborns per year.[120] It is thought that infanticide today continues at a much higher rate in areas of extremely high poverty and overpopulation, such as parts of China and India.[121]Female infants, then and even now, are particularly vulnerable, a factor in sex-selective infanticide. Recent estimates suggest that over 100 million girls and women are 'missing' in Asia.[122]

    Benin

    In spite of the fact that it is illegal, in BeninWest Africa, parents secretly continue with infanticidal customs.[123]

    North Korea

    According to "The Hidden Gulag" published by the Committee for Human Rights in North Korea, Mainland China returns all illegal immigrants from North Korea which usually imprisons them in a short term facility. Korean women who are suspected of being impregnated by Chinese fathers are subjected to forced abortions; babies born alive are killed, sometimes by exposure or being buried alive.[124]

    Mainland China

    There have been some accusations that infanticide occurs in Mainland China due to the one-child policy.[125] In the 1990s, a certain stretch of the Yangtze River was known to be a common site of infanticide by drowning, until government projects made access to it more difficult. Recent studies suggest that over 40 million girls and women are 'missing' in Mainland China (Klasen and Wink 2003).[126]

    India

    The practice has continued in some rural areas of India.[127][128] Infanticide is illegal in India.[129]

    According to a recent report by the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) up to 50 million girls and women are missing in India's population as a result of systematic sex discrimination and sex selective abortions.[130]

    Pakistan

    Killings of newborn babies have been on the rise in Pakistan, corresponding to an increase in poverty across the country.[131] More than 1,000 infants, mostly girls, were killed or abandoned to die in Pakistan in 2009 according to a Pakistani charity organization.[132]

    The Edhi Foundation found 1,210 dead babies in 2010. Many more are abandoned and left at the doorsteps of mosques. As a result, Edhi centers feature signs "Do not murder, lay them here." Though female infanticide is punishable by life in prison, such crimes are rarely prosecuted.[131]

    Oceania

    In November 2008 it was reported that in Agibu and Amosa villages of Gimi region of Eastern Highlandsprovince of Papua New Guinea where tribal fighting in the region of Gimi has been going on since 1986 (many of the clashes arising over claims of sorcery) women had agreed that if they stopped producing males, allowing only female babies to survive, their tribe's stock of boys would go down and there would be no men in the future to fight. They agreed to have all newborn male babies killed. It is not known how many male babies were killed by being smothered, but it had reportedly happened to all males over a 10-year period and probably was still happening.

    England And Wales

    In England and Wales there were typically 30 to 50 homicides per million children less than 1 year old between 1982 and 1996.[133] The younger the infant, the higher the risk.[133] The rate for children 1 to 5 years was around 10 per million children.[133] The homicide rate of infants less than 1 year is significantly higher than for the general population.[133]

    In English law infanticide is established as a distinct offence by the Infanticide Acts. Defined as the killing of a child under 12 months of age by their mother, the effect of the Acts are to establish a partial defence to charges of murder.[134]

    United States

    In 1983, the United States ranked 11th for infants under 1 year killed, and fourth for those killed from 1 through 14 years (the latter case not necessarily involving filicide).[135] In the U.S. over 600 children were killed by their parents in 1983.[136]

    In the United States the infanticide rate during the first hour of life outside the womb dropped from 1.41 per 100,000 during 1963 to 1972 to 0.44 per 100,000 for 1974 to 1983; the rates during the first month after birth also declined, whereas those for older infants rose during this time.[137] The legalization of abortion, which was completed in 1973, was the most important factor in the decline in neonatal mortality during the period from 1964 to 1977, according to a study by economists associated with the National Bureau of Economic Research.[137][138]

    While legislation regarding infanticide in the majority of Western countries focuses on rehabilitation, believing that treatment and education will prevent repetitive action, the United States remains focused on delivering punishment. One justification for punishment is the difficulty of implementing rehabilitation services. With an overcrowded prison system, the United States can not provide the necessary treatment and services.[139]

    Canada

    In Canada 114 cases of infanticide by a parent were reported during 1964–1968.[140] There is ongoing debate in the Canadian legal and political fields about whether section 237 of the Criminal Code, which creates the specific offence and partial defence of infanticide in Canadian law, should be amended or abolished altogether.[141]

    Spain

    From 2013 to March 2018, 28 infanticides cases done by 22 mothers and three stepmothers were reported in Spain.[142][143] The most famous case was the murder of Bernardo González Parra in 1910 perpetrated by Francisco Leona Romero, Julio Hernández Rodríguez, Francisco Ortega el Moruno and Agustina Rodríguez.[144][145] " 

    The above information is for educational purposes. 


  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -  
    @TKDB

    You say ......(Shouldn't the global public, be equally and fairly educated on both sides of the Infanticide and Neonaticide conversations?)

    My reply .....Most people know what the terms mean you being the you are didn’t until I corrected you , don’t assume everyone is as as you 
  • TKDBTKDB 694 Pts   -   edited August 2019
    @Dee

    "My reply .....Most people know what the terms mean you being the you are didn’t until I corrected you, don’t assume everyone is as as you."

    Yet, your question, has been a rewarding education. 

    So thank you, for your educational process, and the reinforcement, of my overall position. 

    And I'm still pro adoption, and pro unborn baby, in the faces of Abortion, Infanticide, and Neonaticide.



  • YeshuaBoughtYeshuaBought 669 Pts   -  
    @Dee Wow. Thank you for proving that liberals are bigoted, and support eugenics. 
  • DeeDee 5395 Pts   -   edited August 2019


    You say.......

    Wow. Thank you for proving that liberals are bigoted, and support eugenics. 

    My reply .....This coming from a Walrus faced hypocrite is too much , you hate Mexicans , Muslims , Jews and fellow Christians even attacking the Pope with your petty little swipe all because he asked people to embrace world peace which I guess goes against your hate everyone that’s not an American and “Christian “ 

    I don’t support eugenics you lying Walrus and pro abortion/ anti abortionist (depending on the weather) 

    Regarding eugenics now you mention it I think it would be a service to mankind to use such on you and your extended gene pool 
  • No, considering 90% of cases can be detected before 18 weeks of pregnancy, what would be immoral would be to go through the pregnancy and knowingly give birth in such a case, an abortion would be the moral choice imo... After birth, the individual is a citizen with all the entailed rights, being physically disabled is not justification enough to induce death without consent...

    Peter Singer is the father of the animal rights movement, right? I don't accept his arguments as valid in either case (animal rights or here).
    well if this is the case then I will have to agree that abortion would be the far more moral option as opposed to infanticide. But it would also have to depend on the specific individual circumstance and situation.



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