keeping a gun in your home well not make you safer

Dee

Pity you couldn't get JFK to agree there was no gender pay gap or the other uneducated legislators who make laws to narrow the gap , obviously those at Business insider also  need elementary schooling to comprehend the alternative fairy tale you cobble together based on not one study or stat but just another of your egotistical opinion pieces

MichaelElpers

@Dee

You're just citing to authority, you can't actually justify or make any counterarguments based on your own merits.  You can't even begin to think past men have a higher median income that must mean there is sexism.  Everyone's a victim, if their is not equality of outcome it must mean someone is racist/sexist...you can't even possibly think beyond more than 1 factor.  There are factors other than sex which determine how much an individual makes...and because men and women don't work the same professions it is logical that they wouldn't make the exact same. But I guess a Harvard study is an opinion piece as well.

But have fun living in your world where every outcome that is not equal is due to some form of patriarchy.

Dee

@MichaelElpers



****You're just citing to authority, you can't actually justify or make any counterarguments based on your own merits.  

Right so government stats don’t count and legislators are incorrect in attempting to address gender wage gaps in the U S all because you say so , you have no counter arguments just an opinion piece which is similar to your usual denial of facts 

****You can't even begin to think past men have a higher median income that must mean there is sexism.  Everyone's a victim, if their is not equality of outcome it must mean someone is racist/sexist...you can't even possibly think beyond more than 1 factor.  There are factors other than sex which determine how much an individual makes...and because men and women don't work the same professions it is logical that they wouldn't make the exact same. 

You still don’t understand what median income is , gender wage disparities are a given your own government is attemptI got to address this still ......or maybe it’s all a commie plot?

****But I guess a Harvard study is an opinion piece as well.

You’re just citing to authority 

*****But have fun living in your world where every outcome that is not equal is due to some form of patriarchy.

I don’t live in the U S so I don’t have to suffer gender wage gaps , unaffordable healthcare , unaffordable college fees or indeed need a gun to defend myself in the home at least one doesn’t need a gun in college as armed security do it for you ......Of course that’s in the U S where guns problems along with gender wage gaps don’t exist .......

MichaelElpers

@Dee

No denial of facts.  I don't deny there is a median income gap, I deny people pay women less for the same job.  A displacement in the gap of median income doesn't prove any form of sexism. 

Women doctors make a higher income than male teachers based on median income.  Is that sexist...because that is in essence what you are saying.

What am I citing that is an opinion?

Dee

@MichaelElpers

.  A displacement in the gap of median income doesn't prove any form of sexism.  

It sure does which is why it’s called a gender pay gap something recognized by your own government yet something you still deny , so again your opinion based on nothing but your own prejudices is baseless 

MichaelElpers

@Dee

So you do think that if a female doctor makes more than a male teacher that is because of sexism and not at all due to the job they work...Thanks for clarifying.

Dee

@MichaelElpers

So you do think that if a female doctor makes more than a male teacher that is because of sexism and not at all due to the job they work...Thanks for clarifying.

I guess that’s your only option left as in lying and claiming I stated something I didn’t. As usual like every debate you think your flawed opinion pieces are somehow fact , this proves yet again how in need of affordable education is something dearly needed in the U S as it’s obvious it’s something you never had the benefit of

MichaelElpers

@Dee

No that is exactly what you're claiming with a median income stat it is just on a larger scale. 

For a simple example if there is a pool of 75 male doctors and 25 teachers, while 25 female doctors and 75 female teachers, the median income stat would show that a disparity claiming men have a higher median income...this is logical though because among the pool a larger amount of men worked a higher income job.

This is how the current job field is set up in the U.S. there are a larger % men working in the higher earning career while a higher % of women working in lower earning career fields.  This is backed up.  Therefore like the earlier simple example it would make since that there is a disparity in median income.  

Do you at least understand this concept. i.e does that make sense?  You can try and claim that I'm wrong in the statistic that men work higher earning jobs, but

1. You cannot claim that this is not sound logic.  That is just simple math.
2. You could claim that men do not work in higher earning career fields, but look up the stats...it is true.

Dee

@MichaelElpers

I guess that’s your only option left as in lying and claiming I stated something I didn’t. As usual like every debate you think your flawed opinion pieces are somehow fact , this proves yet again how in need of affordable education is something dearly needed in the U S as it’s obvious it’s something you never had the benefit of

Plaffelvohfen

@Dee

I wonder why he keeps comparing doctors to teachers... Apples & oranges...  Forbes is probably a profoundly biased communist website, I guess?

Dee

@Plaffelvohfen

He resorts  to making totally irrational statements  every time  his self important opinion pieces are questioned , he also stated that healthcare and university costs were totally affordable to those on minimum wage in the U S , I like others who dispute this Walton’s mountain  cherry pie view of the U S are no doubt Commies looking to spread our nasty Socialist views on God fearing  yanks  

MichaelElpers

@Plaffelvohfen. I compare teachers to doctors because one is known to make a lot of money while the other does not.  There completely different and that is entirely my point. I thought you were pretty rational usually surely you can see the difference between only comparing median wage and actually wage job to job with similar experience.

@Dee. And hey look you provided no counter argument.  You just cant math.  I have a formal education in math and stats...engineering. Also stop lying i never said healthcare and university costs were totally affordable by minimum wage.  I only said it is possible to earn a college degree on minimum wage if you choose a cheaper college.  Adding healthcare on top of that would be hard. 

 I couldnt make that argument any simpler yet you still cant understand it.

So again ill resort to yes or no...

Do you believe that men a women work the exact same jobs.

MichaelElpers

@Plaffelvohfen @Dee

Maybe i can make it easier on you...this has illustrations. Please watch.

MayCaesar

@MichaelElpers

I have learned a while ago that people from STEM fields simply speak a different language, than most other people. I myself am a physicist/mathematician, and I totally agree with you that a lot of people on online forums just cannot perform basic mathematical analysis, or even general logical analysis, for that matter. They replace rigorous analysis with appeal to emotion and personal attacks, because their understanding of the related topics is just that limited.

Hence why I rarely continue talking to people once they started moving towards ad-hominem attacks. When that happens, you know that they have used up their logical capacity, and it is time to move on.

MichaelElpers

@MayCaesar

I should stop, it's just so frustrating.  I want people to be more educated.  Especially when colleges these days are reinforcing appeal to emotion over logical analysis.

Dee

@MichaelElpers



*****Maybe I can make this easier on you ......this has illustrations.Please watch 

Wow a video from a right wing loonies site that denies climate change , thinks minimum wage is to high and supports racism , just as I said all along you’re just a climate change denying racist who also thinks women are second rate citizens and do not deserve equality .......

Prager u com  is not a university or academic institution.[4] It does not hold classes, does not grant certifications or diplomas, and is not accredited by any recognized body.[5]

In  August 2018, PragerU criticized YouTube for adding fact-checks to YouTube videos which cover climate change.

Videos on PragerU Com have defended capitalism, argued against a $15 minimum wage, argued that gun ownership is a constitutional right, and argued that the media cannot be trusted. In one video, a presenter argues that "racism, bigotry, xenophobia, homophobia, and Islamophobia" are "meaningless buzzwords". I

Dee

@MichaelElpers

****I should stop, it's just so frustrating.

You really should as you’ve now descended into posting up You Tube videos from a right wing American hate site 

 ***/ I want people to be more educated. 

Except of course those who cannot afford it on minimum wage 

 ****Especially when colleges these days are reinforcing appeal to emotion over logical analysis.

Which maybe explains why you keep using this tactic 

Dee

@MayCaesar

I should stop, it's just so frustrating.  I want people to be more educated.  Especially when colleges these days are reinforcing appeal to emotion over logical analysis.

Yet  you and your buddy deny that legislators and government recognise  gender wage gaps and put laws and regulations in place to address it , you and he were presented with several postings and the main one from business insider is well supported yet the denialism continues.

Instead you resort to what you call your “rigorous analysis “ to reinterpret actual stats into something that fits your flawed narrative also being a coward you then hide behind the charge that “ad -hominem” attacks are being made against you and @MichaelElpers ......

You wish to support a guy who denies like you facts as in a gender wage gap in the U S that’s fine , remember your buddy also supports Pragerucom a right wing American hate site that supports sexism , racism , thinks minimum  wage is to high and denies racism exists ........I know you also think minimum wage is pretty good as you claim on it an American family can pay for healthcare and university fees if they make “wise choices “ you also deny a gender wage gap , are you also a climate change denier? Also does racism exist in the U S or is that yet another “myth” you dismiss?

Dee

@MichaelElpers

****And hey look you provided no counter argument.  

Right so Business Insider and a 14 page summary with 7 graphs is no “counter argument” yet your racist , climate changing site is your go to counter argument .....Oh dear 

****You just cant math.  

Ok , that makes no sense .....can’t math? Are  you trying to say I cannot do maths? If so again it’s another claim based on nothing except your opinion which we have garnered is worthless 

****I have a formal education in math and stats...engineering. 

You should ask for your money back 

****Also stop lying i never said healthcare and university costs were totally affordable by minimum wage.  

I don’t lie , you stated you got a college degree on minimum wage which is 7 dollars 25 as of today so when you stop lying tell me how is that possible? 

****I only said it is possible to earn a college degree on minimum wage if you choose a cheaper college.  

Right so tell me the colleges that allow that on 7 dollars 25 an hour?

****Adding healthcare on top of that would be hard. 

You mean impossible surely or maybe you can work it out for me as you claim “you can math”

 ****I couldnt make that argument any simpler yet you still cant understand it.

You are a simpleton so I guess making simple arguments is all you can do 

****So again ill resort to yes or no...

Do you mean “I will “ or are you indeed ill?

***Do you believe that men a women work the exact same jobs.

“Men a woman” what does that mean?

MichaelElpers

@Dee

There are plenty of economists that argue against a minimum wage.  It is 100% fact that gun ownership is a constitutional right...it's in the constitution.  It provided plenty of citations and logical analysis to back up its claim.  Yet you just resort to name calling, that is when those terms become buzzwords, when they have become so common place that people begin to use them to describe people they disagree with instead of what they actually mean.  I don't agree with every single pragerU video, but I'll agree when they cite multiple sources and have actually analytical analysis to prove their point.  And considering free markets have brought more people out of poverty than any system ever created...yeah that's a pretty good defense.

No I say you can't math because you can't understand that if men work a higher % in fields that pay more than women, that they will have a higher median income...that is math at an elementary level.

A community college or a cheaper state run college.  Often you can also find ways to receive grants and other things.  Also if you work for some companies and are wanting a degree they can use they will pay for your college education.  You can also work hard in highschool to get good grades and receive a scholarship...Not everything needs to be handed to you.

Dee

@MichaelElpers

****There are plenty of economists that argue against a minimum wage.  

Of course there are that’s the U S all over in Europe minimum wage is a right because we believe people no matter race , colour  or creed deserve a fair wage for their labour .....something you’re totally against 

****It is 100% fact that gun ownership is a constitutional right...

it's in the constitution.  

So was owning blacks as slaves in the U S , so it must be right .....Right?

****It provided plenty of citations and logical analysis to back up its claim

You mean your article from the right wing site that denies racism exists and climate change is nonsense?

.  ****Yet you just resort to name calling, that is when those terms become buzzwords, when they have become so common place that people begin to use them to describe people they disagree with instead of what they actually mean.  

Right , so calling a black a nigger isn’t racist it’s just a misappropriated “buzzword” .....

Here’s the problem you target me and @Pllafelvohen  and say sarcastically that you’ve posted up a video with pictures which is yet another example of your cowardly ad -hominems .....When you get it back you wail like the little girl you are 

****I don't agree with every single pragerU video, but I'll agree when they cite multiple sources and have actually analytical analysis to prove their point.  

Right , like their contention that the term racist and racism are meaningless and climate change is nonsense?

****And considering free markets have brought more people out of poverty than any system ever created...yeah that's a pretty good defense.

Which is why 41 million people suffer food poverty in the US and a sizable amount of the population cannot afford healthcare or college fees .....You sound like your of a president just spouting inane B S 

****No I say you can't math because you can't understand that if men work a higher % in fields that pay more than women, that they will have a higher median income...that is math at an elementary level.

Yet one of the most respected research centers as in PEW agree with me regarding gender pay gaps as do your government.......Commie plot maybe?

****A community college or a cheaper state run college.  Often you can also find ways to receive grants and other things.  Also if you work for some companies and are wanting a degree they can use they will pay for your college education.  You can also work hard in highschool to get good grades and receive a scholarship...Not everything needs to be handed to you.

Right , all on 7:25 dollars an hour , you still haven’t done the math on that give it a go? So how does one pay rent ,car , food , fuel , healthcare and college fees on 7:25 dollars an hour ......Give it a go after all you’re an expert at math and stats aren’t you?

John_C_87

@MichaelElpers ;
@Dee ;

Keeping a gun in your home will not keep you safer. 
Not, keeping the minimum in a wage will not keep you safer. 

MichaelElpers

@Dee

In the name of @mayceasar...im done talking to you.

Dee

@MichaelElpers

• In the name of @mayceasar...im done talking to you

Thank goodness for that , your only argument has been to appeal to a right wing American hate site that’s even the subject of mockery by the nuttier elements on You Tube .....Totally fits in with your chartacter and “intellectual gifts” though 

John_C_87

So, the statistical problem.

Where keeping a weapon of lethal force in my home will not make me any safer. You with a United State Constitutional duty to keep an arm of lethal force in your home most certainly does make me safer. In more than just one way, a problem is that statistics will not negate that legal fact so evading the basic principle must be used. Long and complex justifications with little or no preservation to American Constitutional right.

John_C_87

John_C_87 said:

@MichaelElpers ;
@Dee ;

Keeping a gun in your home will not keep you safer. 
Not, keeping the minimum in a wage will not keep you safer. 

@Dee ;
Plaffelvohfen

It is good to see you a least try to seek an understand of relevant. Consider yourselves measured and tested.

MichaelElpers

If your doing a scientific experiment/study and you want to prove something, a proper study only change 1 variable at a time while controlling the others. If you change more than 1 thing you dont know which factor caused the change.

 Therefore if you are wanting to prove sexism in pay you must keep all variables constant while only changing what a change in sex will do.  Annual median income doesnt do this, it has changes in job experience, the job being worked the avg number of hours worked, ect.  All these variables differ but somehow people believe they be reliable by claiming sex was the main factor.  That is not how science works.

John_C_87

@MichaelElpers ;
Did you post you comment in the right place?

MichaelElpers

@John_C_87

Yes, we had gotten off topic but it was in reply to previous posts in this article.

John_C_87

Just wondering...….

Wasn't sure if a misplaced post changed the argument.

RickeyD

@billbatard I'm a retired 31-yrs Houston PD Officer and anyone who fails to arm them self in their home, in their motor vehicle, on the street, is foolish. Every law abiding citizen should possess at least a good shotgun, a good assault rifle and one or two good handguns and practice, practice, practice. If you are a family man with a wife, children, take the proper precautions to keep your weapons away from your kids but teach them safety and teach your children and your wife how to properly handle a firearm. Don't be a Progressive snowflake, a victim, in your own home, in your own property our while in town with your family. Protect your home, defend your home and don't listen to the gun control fanatics who would rather you see in a coffin than using a firearm to protect your family and yourself. Be smart, learn how to properly use a firearm, train with it, obtain a carry permit and DO NOT be a helpless victim!

Dee

@RickeyD

Hilarious you rant about atheists yet don't feel safe in your Christian society unless armed to the teeth.

Do you honestly believe Jesus would have approved of gun ownership......Don't answer that as it's obvious you've reinvented god into a Trump loving paid up Republican

Dr_Maybe

@billbatard

When I was younger I owned many guns. I shot trap and skeet competitively and hunted game birds, but never owned one for self-defense. I am not anti gun, but today I think hand guns and assault rifles should be banned and strict gun control measures should be instituted. I look at what's going on today and I'm beginning to think that humans are not intelligent enough to be allowed to have guns. That impression comes mostly from listening to the arguments of gun zealots.

CYDdharta

Dr_Maybe said:

@billbatard

When I was younger I owned many guns. I shot trap and skeet competitively and hunted game birds, but never owned one for self-defense. I am not anti gun, but today I think hand guns and assault rifles should be banned and strict gun control measures should be instituted. I look at what's going on today and I'm beginning to think that humans are not intelligent enough to be allowed to have guns. That impression comes mostly from listening to the arguments of gun zealots.

You do realize today's murder rate is about half of what it was when you were younger and the trend is downward, right?  So what is it about "today" that causes you to "think hand guns and assault rifles should be banned and strict gun control measures should be instituted"?  What is it about "today" that causes you to "think that humans are not intelligent enough to be allowed to have guns"?  Is there any actual reason, or is it purely just your own personal biases that cause you to think that way?

Dee

@Dr_Maybe

****I look at what's going on today and I'm beginning to think that humans are not intelligent enough to be allowed to have guns. 

That’s a very reasonable conclusion 

MayCaesar

@Dr_Maybe

"Humans are not intelligent enough to be allowed to have X" is one of the weakest defences of a regulation proposal I can think of. Not only is this statement fundamentally improvable and subjective, but it also reeks of misanthropy.

I have long ago noticed that advocacy for almost any type of regulation ultimately comes down to claiming that "Other humans are less intelligent than me, hence they need me to tell them what they can or cannot do". Authoritarianism and elitism are inseparable.

I can say one thing with full confidence: however intelligent humans are, there is one thing none of us is intelligent enough to do: to manage what other people can or cannot do. If each of us has such low intelligence that we cannot handle one piece of metal with a barrel and a trigger, then have can we possibly handle managing a complex system consisting of 300+ million people?
This is one question nobody has ever been able to give me a quality answer to.

RickeyD

@Dee Yes, Dee, Jesus approves of self-defense and carry rights. Why do some of my responses to you have to be approved? Who are you that receives special favors from the moderators?

Dee

@RickeyD

Your ignorance of the Bible is truly appalling and slyly you leave out the verse that follows ,so tell do you believe Jesus is lying when he states as in below? 

ESV)

It’s worth noting that about an hour later Jesus said to the disciples: “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Matthew 26:52 ESV).

So which is it? Swords good or bad?

For this and many other reasons most commentators understand Jesus as speaking metaphorically in Luke 22:36-37. Matthew Henry for example says:

This is intended only to show that the times would be very perilous, so that no man would think himself safe if he had not a sword by his side. But the sword of the Spirit is the sword which the disciples of Christ must furnish themselves with. 1

John Calvin was even more direct:

It was truly shameful and ignorance, that the disciples, after having been so often informed about bearing the cross, imagine that they must fight with swords of iron. 2

This interpretation is further confirmed when we look at the exchange that immediately follows. The disciples, apparently, took Jesus literally.

“Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” (Luke 22:38 ESV)

Leon Morris understands Jesus as saying here:

“It is enough” (Luke 22:38 ESV). As in: ‘Enough of this kind of talk!’ He dismisses a subject in which the disciples were so hopelessly astray. 3

On balance it seems that Jesus is not telling the disciples to buy actual swords. He is saying that they are about to enter into very perilous times and they will need to keep the sword of the Spirit “half drawn” at all times.

MichaelElpers

@Dee

Your completely missing the point of why Jesus told them to put there swords away.

1. It was because he wanted them to change people minds and spirit by spreading his word not through violence.

2. Jesus knew he was supposed to undergo the test.

3. He had plans for the disciples after his death, plans that wouldnt continue if the disciples got charged for crimes or killed.

Id like to see the passage where jesus rebukes someone that defends their family.

Not that this matter anyway because religion shouldnt be involved.

Dee

@MichaelElpers

****
Your completely missing the point of why Jesus told them to put there swords away.

I’m not 

*****1. It was because he wanted them to change people minds and spirit by spreading his word not through violence.

Yes , Jesus was a pacifist a gun has one function to kill , Americans have reinvented Jesus in their image 

***/Jesus knew he was supposed to undergo the test.

3. He had plans for the disciples after his death, plans that wouldnt continue if the disciples got charged for crimes or killed.

Id like to see the passage where jesus rebukes someone that defends their family.



I’d like to see the passage where Jesus tells all his followers to arm themselves 

RickeyD

@Plaffelvohfen ; Until you've made a crime scene where the husband was held down in his own home and the wife was raped repeatedly by multiple suspects as the husband watched along with the children, keep your monitors and your liberal idiocy, I'll take my AR - 30rd Mag, my Glock 19 and my Beretta 12-guage....enjoy your liberalism and pacifism.

John_C_87

Having some-one else keep a gun in their house will keep me safer. One that person must hold the responsibility of lethal force equally with those in a military order or be imprisoned.

Second if attacked and I must flee my home I can use their gun after they are shot for not holding the responsibility of lethal force equally.

It sounds like a basic principle. When expecting an Army to protect you a person must be willing to protect them as well. Not just pay them, or have them paid to protect you.

RickeyD

@Dee ; Your naivete is astounding in your ignorance of Truth. We don't live in a Christian society, Dee, we live in a society that serves the same god you serve, Satan. You truly are a very foolish and naive individual.

John_C_87

RickeyD said:

@Dee ; Your naivete is astounding in your ignorance of Truth. We don't live in a Christian society, Dee, we live in a society that serves the same god you serve, Satan. You truly are a very foolish and naive individual.

How on earth does someone afford a fire-Arm like that and a smile so white?

RickeyD

@John_C_87 You build the firearm yourself...and the money saved can be put toward teeth whitening sessions and ammo. Elementary.

John_C_87

@RickeyD ;

Wow! If she can machine a rifle like that, I would love to see how her truck rims turn out.

I wrote something long and complicated. Instead I am going to with a lot simpler point. We are in a little boat in the middle of a massive universe. The United Soviet Socialist Republic shot a hole in our little frick’in dingy with an atomic reactor meltdown.

We new it was going to happen sooner or later, if not us, if not by the Socialist party, then by some-one else sooner or later. I’m not sure if the world is waiting for god to say start or not. I’m not panicking just not sticking around waiting any more. It’s time to build the way off this popsicle stand earth, the clock is ticking...

Now that’s a Willful woman not a minute man.