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I'm pro-life, change my mind
in Politics

Please try, i am open minded and can't wait to be debated



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Predicted 2nd Place
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Arguments

  • @smartconservative

    I'm pro life as well, I believe that adoption is the answer, to an Abortion, outside of rape or incest. 
  • Before I begin, I'd like to know when you believe personhood begins. For me, it is when the fetus has sufficient brainwaves. My reason for this is that it is how doctors know if you are alive. I want you to really think about what you are supporting, because if abortion is banned, women who need it will die. Look at what happened to Savita from Ireland, who died because doctors refuse to abort her pregnancy. Any alleged evidence for the prolife view is propaganda.
  • @TKDB I have the right to choose what to do with my body. I see that antichoice people like you favor forced organ donation.
  • @YeshuaBought

    Please show where I expressed this line of thought from you, to you, or anyone else?

    "I see that anti choice people like you favor forced organ donation."


  • @TKDB All prolifers favoor forced organ donation by forcing women to give birth.
  • TKDBTKDB 401 Pts
    edited November 2019
    @YeshuaBought

    I favor Adoption, and adoption only.

    So please don't group me in, with those other individuals?

    I believe that an unborn baby should have a voice as well?

    Is it a babies fault, that the male and female, that created the unconsensual baby, neglected to use any birth control? 

    https://thefederalist.com/2017/06/29/no-pro-lifers-dont-want-force-women-birth-babies/

    No, Pro-lifers Don’t Want To Force Women To Birth Babies

    "It’s a fallacy to claim that the pro-life community seeks to force childbirth and compel women to render themselves human sacrifices for their unborn children.

    This week Planned Parenthood activists have been marching around the nation’s capital dressed in the costumes of sex slaves from the dystopian “Handmaid’s Tale” Hulu show. They’re objecting to Republican discussion of cutting federal funding to the nation’s largest abortion provider after evidence coming out for several years showing the organization trafficking in human body parts obtained from abortions."

    "Women wearing similar costumes have shown up at state legislatures to protest health and safety regulations for abortion clinics. A standard line relating attempted curbs on abortion to the handmaid garb is that, like the book, Republicans want to “force women to have babies.” It’s evidently a popular trope among abortion supporters. Recently, Federalist contributor Daniel Rendleman highlighted it as an insight he gleaned from spending a semester at Yale Law with a small group of pro-choice women in a reproductive rights seminar.

    In sharing his classmates’ perspectives and stressing the need for the pro-life community to respond, Rendleman acceded to this fatal pro-choice fallacy when he professed: “We do want to make women undergo childbirth even when they do not want to.” This statement is wrong on all levels: Logically, scientifically, philosophically, and legally.

    People Aren’t Making Women Give Birth, Nature Is

    First, like the Left, Rendleman’s assertion presents a false equivalency. Wanting to prohibit the killing of an innocent human being in utero is not equivalent to making a woman undergo childbirth. The difference is apparent if you hypothetically drop the pregnant woman on a deserted—but bountiful in food and drink—island. Without either a pro-life advocate or an abortion doctor present to meddle, what happens a half-dozen months later, give or take? The woman “will undergo childbirth.”

    No person or government agency will have “made her undergo childbirth.” Nature will have. Childbirth is the natural conclusion of a pregnancy. Abortion alters the natural order. Thus, a prohibition on abortion does not make a woman undergo child birth; abortion makes her not give birth. Really, the only way to equate laws prohibiting the destruction of an unborn human being with forced childbirth is if “we presuppose a certain kind of mythical understanding of reality.” 


    "Yet pro-choice advocates insist “in no other case except pregnancy, do we legally compel one human to give up their bodily autonomy to sustain the life of another human.” We would never mandate organ donations, they argue:

    [M]y life, right now, is not so precious that any other human being could be compelled to use their body to support mine for the next nine months (at least). No other human being is obliged to give up an organ for me, even if it would save my life. Nor bone marrow, nor blood, nor skin. People who are forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term are being asked to do something no other people are asked to do for another person, which exposes the truth of the anti-choice position: Fetuses are valued more highly than the people who carry them.

    But rather than prove the pro-choice point, this example dispels their myth of an assault on bodily autonomy. In the case of organ transplants, the law does not force you to do anything with your body. It does not mandate that you donate a kidney or a liver to another human being, even though most mothers would willingly do so for their children. However, the law does prohibit you from hiring a doctor to kill the child awaiting a transplant.

    Forcing Is Not the Same as Prohibiting

    In the case of transplants—as in most situations—the law distinguishes between forcing and prohibiting. The law does not force a competent patient to submit to chemotherapy but does prohibit that same patient from paying a doctor to administer a terminal dose of narcotics. The law does not make one human being rescue another in peril, but does prohibit a person from placing another in peril. The law does not require a mother or father to consent to resuscitating a newborn baby suffering from a terminal disease, but does prohibit a parent from killing the newborn.

    So too in the case of abortion. Pro-life advocates do not seek laws that would require women to do anything with their bodies. Rather, they seek laws that prohibit women to hire a doctor to kill the human being awaiting birth.

    Of course the forced transplant scenario is not completely analogous because pregnancy is sui generis: Pregnancy is the only situation where nature mandates that one individual—and only that one individual—can sustain the life of another human being and the only (current) way to alter nature is the direct affirmative killing of the second innocent human being.

    The analogy is nonetheless informative: It illustrates the fallacy in the pro-choice bodily autonomy argument: Prohibiting bodily conduct does not equate to requiring bodily conduct. Pro-life advocates seek legislation to prohibit the killing of a human being in utero, but do not seek to require a pregnant woman to do anything, such as to inject herself with progesterone to prevent a miscarriage. If a typical pregnant woman does nothing but sustain her own life, her child will naturally come to term.

    Let’s Consider the Child’s Bodily Autonomy As Well

    While wrong in suggesting how to address the bodily autonomy argument, Rendleman is nonetheless correct that pro-life advocates must confront this issue. With the advance of science and technology, the pro-choice Left can no longer ignore the humanity of the unborn and thus will cling even more firmly to the altar of bodily autonomy at which they worship. The first step, then, is to expose the fallacy of the Left’s claim that the pro-life community seeks to force childbirth and compel women to render themselves human sacrifices for their unborn children.

    But it is also helpful to expose the abortion industry’s waving of the false flag of bodily autonomy: Preserving a woman’s bodily autonomy is not truly the goal for many in the pro-choice community. If it were, they would embrace laws prohibiting abortion after the fetus’ viability. “Deliver. Don’t Abort,” would be the clarion call instead of “Abortion. On Demand.” But it isn’t because the abortion industrial complex doesn’t see abortion as a woman’s right to control her body. They see it as a right to a dead, dismembered, and bartered body."

    "It’s just rare to capture them on tape admitting as much—proving also that sometimes your opponents are even more evil than you believed them to be."

    An article found by googling your words.


    PlaffelvohfenDee
  • Please try, i am open minded and can't wait to be debated
    How are you pro-life and what does that claim have to do with placing all woman in a self-incrimination to a felony crime?
  • Welcome to the Grand illusion
    Come on in and see what's happening
    Pay the price, get your tickets for the show
    The stage is set, the band starts playing
    Suddenly your heart is pounding
    Wishing secretly you were a star

    But don't be fooled by the radio
    The TV or the magazines
    They show you photographs of how your life should be
    But they're just someone else's fantasy

    So if you think your life is complete confusion
    Because you never win the game
    Just remember that it's a grand illusion
    And deep inside we're all the same
    We're all the same

     

    (Styx, The Grand Illusion,1977)


  • @TKDB I favor bodily choice, which is a human right.
  • @TKDB Yes prolifers do want to force women to give birth.
  • @YeshuaBought

    What about the babies right, to a Quality of Life, that a pregnant lady, is seeking, after having an abortion? 

    "I favor bodily choice, which is a human right."
  • @TKDB This is my body, I have the right to choose what to do with my body. The fetus is not a baby until it has brainwaves. Keep your fiction off my body.
  • TKDBTKDB 401 Pts
    edited November 2019
    @YeshuaBought

    Maybe some of Humanities, utilization of the medical tool called "Abortion," could in, a sense be viewed, as some of Humanity playing "God," with unborn life, by aborting an unconsensual baby?

    "Keep your fiction off my body."

    The below is fact, and not fiction. 

    A probable problem, with the Roe V Wade conversation, is that it lacks a Quality of Life answer for an unborn babies life, while un-consensually inside of the mother's body?

    Apparently a unborn baby, in some instances, doesn't deserve the same Quality of Life, as a pregnant lady does?



  • @TKDB It is not a fact. You will never prove that it is a fact. 
  • I'm pro-choice in the sense that I choose not to adhere to either polarized, dichotomous points of view. In some instances abortion is necessary, and the best thing to do. At other times Abortion is not the right thing to do. It depends on the circumstances.
    YeshuaBought









  • @ZeusAres42 You either support bodily choice, or you do not.
    ZeusAres42
  • ZeusAres42ZeusAres42 1035 Pts
    edited November 2019
    @ZeusAres42 You either support bodily choice, or you do not.
    And now you've just made an obvious false dichotomy. If what you just said was a question it would read as "with regard to abortion do you either support bodily choice or not?" It's a false dichotomy because there's a third option that exists. And the third option I've just given you above although in brief.











  • TKDBTKDB 401 Pts
    edited November 2019
    @YeshuaBought

    "It is not a fact. You will never prove that it is a fact."

    Your answer, falls short of the below overall argument.


    Maybe some of Humanities, utilization of the medical tool called "Abortion," could in, a sense be viewed, as some of Humanity playing "God," with unborn life, by aborting an unconsensual baby?

    "Keep your fiction off my body."

    The below is fact, and not fiction. 

    A probable problem, with the Roe V Wade conversation, is that it lacks a Quality of Life answer for an unborn babies life, while un-consensually inside of the mother's body?

    Apparently an unborn baby, in some instances, doesn't deserve the same Quality of Life, as a pregnant lady does? 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @ZeusAres42 No I haven't. Women either have the right to choose what to do with their bodies, or they do not.
    ZeusAres42
  • @TKDB Yes prolifers do want to force women to give birth.
    No of course not YeshuaBought , pro-life like pro choice just want all woman to unconstitutionally self-incriminate under condition of pregnancy duress and danger .
  • @John_C_87 Are you a troll?
    Plaffelvohfen
  • YeshuaBought : Are you a Troll,

    John_C: I was on a Sports fishing team....?

    I'm scared, petrified as a woman you and many others appear to have no idea you are in favor of a united state created on self-incrimination for all woman. Or, just do not care. No brueno, Muy no brueno, nitch gut.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @John_C_87 Yep, you're trolling. I have the right to choose what to do with my body. I have done nothing wrong, and we're done here.
  • The difference between you and I, you’re the only one saying what you want anything to do with your body. What is made clear to others is Kill. I am the one who is fighting recklessly by abolishing self-incrimination. 

    You are doing may things wrong….My sister deserved better than some-one like you speaking on her behalf of pregnancy terminations as a woman.

    Done? You never got started…preserving a constitutional right. Preserving liberty for woman as a united state, preserve presumption of innocence for woman. 

    I'm not trolling we are at War, it is/ was a civil War and it has be raging for decades since the 1960's.

    Plaffelvohfen
  • I would not choose to impose my own personal opinion on such a serious topic.
    meaning I would not be in a position to tell someone else how they should act with there own body or decision making.

    I strongly believe that this is a decision that can only be made by the person who is with child and no one else.
    We can all agree or disagree depending on so many different variables to why one should or should not abort.

    The question itself states you are pro life, but then their are many who would disagree.
    It all comes down to the individuals circumstances that led up to the way one became pregnant in the first place, but this too would become another fallacy trapped by personal opinion.

    If you did choose to become with child then yes I would like to think you would not change your mind and decide to terminate that choice.
    Then again we are faced with the unknown variables that can occur from the start of conception to something going wrong during the usual 9 month cycle.

    So once again the very same question of do we allow one to make a choice then change that choice?

    As I mentioned already it all comes down to personal and individual circumstances that determine why such a change in choice should happen.
    .
    Many may not approve of such choices albeit for, or against, but the real underlying truth in all this is that the choice should always be made by the person who must carry out this very delicate decision based on their personal circumstances at the onset and during the pregnancy to its final outcome.

    So my answer may appear somewhat simple, and on the fence so to speak even though this topic stems much deeper.
    I say that a persons body, should be there own to choose, but it should be a choice that is decided not solely based on a simple whim, but more over given much serious thought before acting upon it.

    Wishing you all the best no matter what you decide, but I leave you with this last thought.......every life is very precious in its own way, think about your own life, then ask yourself do I deserve a chance to live, or should someone else decide for me if I live or die?
    It is not a trick question, or loaded to imply pro choice, but rather a thought process one should consider seriously before taking any form of sudden action.

    Cheers from 
    Haydn.E.Sheldon
    .


  • @ZeusAres42 No I haven't. Women either have the right to choose what to do with their bodies, or they do not.
    Just because someone is of the position that abortion depends on the circumstances does not mean they don't support bodily choice. 

    I'm for human well-being and wanting what's best for humanity.

    Sometimes abortion is ok. At other times it isn't ok. 









  • @smartconservative

    Go through these (we get one such thread per 10 days or so), read the arguments and bring up new counter arguments, if you have new ones...
    There's no point is repeating those that were already addressed...


    https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/4057/im-pro-life-change-my-mind

    https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/4107/at-what-point-do-pro-abortion-supporters-draw-the-line

    https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/4064/being-pro-choice-is-the-only-logical-position-persuade-me-otherwise
    ZeusAres42Dee
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "

  • You're right. It does become tiresome after a while debating the same things over and over again.
    Plaffelvohfen










  • You're right. It does become tiresome after a while debating the same things over and over again.

    Yeah, but at least that repetitive nature is really by your own choice. You could address the self-incrimination in issue created on immigration on an international scale?


    Plaffelvohfen
  • @TKDB You favor forced organ donation. This is my body. I have the right to choose what to do with my body. You have nothing to say about what I do with my body.
  • @ZeusAres42 You have nothing to say about whether a woman has an abortion. You don't have the right to force your beliefs on other people. Antichoice troll! You don't have the right to dictate which women get abortions, and which do not.
    ZeusAres42
  • @ZeusAres42 You have nothing to say about whether a woman has an abortion. You don't have the right to force your beliefs on other people. Antichoice troll! You don't have the right to dictate which women get abortions, and which do not.
    Of course we do, it was a self-incrimination made publicly violating a woman's right to privacy. The test to preserve united state constitution was made to create all woman as equal not hold public office by use of legislation of law.

    Like I said woman like my sister deserved better Constitutional representation. 
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @John_C_87 No you don't. You have nothing to say about what I do with my body. Blocked for trolling.
  • Sounds like you real just don’t like woman to have a choice to self-incriminate or not.

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