Can any Atheist explain some of the statements made by this website: "Atheist Revolution"

MayCaesar

As an atheist, not a single time did I feel my rights "infringed upon" on this basis in any developed country. I can even go to Christian or any other churches and openly say that I am an atheist, and they still always accept me and are glad to have me.

These groups seem to cater to the same type of people as various Christian fundamentalist organisations. I am an atheist, but I will have no association with them. "Atheist" is not a part of my identity, and in general I do not see religion (or lack of one) as a defining characteristic of a human being.

Religion is not a big deal in the modern world, unless we are talking about Middle-Eastern and North-African theocracies (and a couple more places, such as Malaysia or Brunei. Even in the US, which is one of the most religious countries in the developed world, Christianity stopped being very relevant in politics around a couple of decades ago.

Identity politics of all kinds should go, and people should group up based not on arbitrary labels, but on actually similar general world views and goals. Religions, genders, races, nationalities, ethnicities, disability statuses, ages, cultures - all completely arbitrary categories, saying nothing about what the actual person is like.

TKDB

@MayCaesar

I'm pro Religious Freedom, and have come across many individuals, who freely infringe, on the Religious Freedoms of others.

I have seen it on the internet, and in a courtroom, (via the Freedom of the Press,) where an Atheist, hired an attorney to protest Religion, to ensure the separation of church and state?

Because somehow, via how they perceive Religion, a (Religion) was able to "infringe" upon their Atheist views, when any Religion in general, doesn't have any ability to instruct any Atheist, in how to personally live their individual lives?

MayCaesar

@TKDB

I would say that it is quite the opposite: secularism is a relatively recent worldwide phenomenon. Religious values dominated over the ideas of individual freedom up until roughly a century ago, when the first World War played a role of the ultimate crisis that forced societies en masse to reconsider some of the old views, seeing how they are not working out.

Even today, in the US there are laws giving privileges to religious organisations, that do not apply to all organisations, such as tax exemptions or extra enterpreneurial rights. However, these laws are fairly scarce and do not make a difference with regards to most industries.

I have never heard of an attorney protesting religion in court in the US in the recent time, but there are many lawsuits happening in this country every day, and it is likely that such cases take place. They do not seem to be statistically significant, however.

Happy_Killbot

“All children are born Atheists”

This statement is the most straightforward on the list. All it means is that children are born with no knowledge of god, gods, the afterlife, fairy tales, Santa Claus, etc. Therefore, they are by definition, atheist having no belief until they are taught what to believe by their elders. Isn’t it funny how which religion you think is the right one depends on your family and community?

“Four things we can do to make more atheists”

This statement is a little guilty of the hypocrisy that it promotes confronting. Just by following the first step, you can only further belief, by forcing cognitive dissonance and entrenchment of ideals. The best way, is therefore to force critical thinking through epistemology. Making people actually think about what they believe and why is a thousand times more effective than what is suggested in this article, to the point that I would recommend it be ignored by anyone seeking the information therein.

“Challenging faith”

“Hungary? Praise jee-zuhs”

These short paragraphs advocate for the decoupling of morality and religion. In other words, in other words you should do what is right because you genuinely value society and not because you believe that if you don’t you will be tormented for all eternity. Part of this moral behavior might include feeding the poor and donating to charity.

“Atheists dehumanizing Religious groups on twitter”

If you couldn’t tell by now, this site tends to advocate for a rather fanatic version of secular ideas. This is another example of the hypocrisy contained within, so they have to back up and try to keep the masses from fully radicalizing. There really aren’t any atheist ideas here, just a general “please stop hating so much” message.

“Support secular organizations”

I have to be honest, this is just a lot of silly catering to beliefs already held by many neo–liberals, as is apparent in the recycling of terminology, such as “Christian privilege”. Apparently, all you need to do to stroke the ego of neo-liberals now is to say “<insert power stereotype here> privilege is destroying our country! “This isn’t to downgrade or ignore the people who are actually discriminated against for religious reasons, be they Atheist, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or anything else. I just find it kind of funny that slave morality as Nietzsche put it, is so dominant that it somehow justifies being a secular activist.

“The social Acceptability of anti-atheist bigotry”

I read everything in that article and can only conclude that there are no strong arguments made, even though there is a strong argument to be made here. First off, it’s all irrelevant in the US where religious participation has been declining for decades, and religious unaffiliated as defined by the Pew research center have been on the rise in western countries.

http://https//www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/


Not once do they mention any of the countries where being openly atheist will get you beheaded. Overall just a very weak set of anecdotal arguments that appeal to emotion rather than logic. If somehow you have suffered yourself to read all of this, you should know that there is going to be a push for atheism to be the new social justice cause, and the results of a secular survey on abuse by religion should be coming out in march of next year. Having taken this survey myself, I anticipate the results to be heavily skewed and used only to justify this cause, which was arguably won when the US made separation of church and state one of its guiding principles.

http://https//www.secularsurvey.org/


TKDB

@MayCaesar

And some of the Atheist ideas, along with Atheist websites like, "Atheist Revolution," have, in a sense, placed a yoke, around the neck of the internet, and are treating it like a barn yard mule? 

"I would say that it is quite the opposite: secularism is a relatively recent worldwide phenomenon. Religious values dominated over the ideas of individual freedom up until roughly a century ago, when the first World War played a role of the ultimate crisis that forced societies en masse to reconsider some of the old views, seeing how they are not working out."

Your pro Atheist ideals, are showing the usual Atheist political angling:

"Even today, in the US there are laws giving privileges to religious organisations, that do not apply to all organisations, such as tax exemptions or extra enterpreneurial rights."

"However, these laws are fairly scarce and do not make a difference with regards to most industries."

@MayCaesar

Tell me something, Where is there a single documented "Court Case," where any Religious parent, or parents, are currently in jail, serving a sentence, for brainwashing their kids with any Religion? 

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

Is there a Atheist Neurologist, Psychiatrist, or Psychologist, or a Pediatrics Doctor, who can share some realty based facts on the above Atheist made statement? 
 
Where is the FACTUAL evidence to support such an Atheist created claim?
"Anyone who understands the definition of atheism must acknowledge that all children are born atheists, including those born to Christian parents."

And this statement is even more disturbing that the above claim is?
 

"But why must Christians distort the meaning of atheism at all? Why should they even care if their children are born atheists, especially when it is likely that they will begin brainwashing them at an early age?"


Again, where is the FACTUAL evidence to support such an Atheist created claim?

Is there a Atheist Neurologist, Psychiatrist, or Psychologist, or a Pediatrics Doctor, who can share some realty based facts on the above Atheist made statement?  

@Happy_Killbot

What say you?

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB The argument is semantic, it follows from basic logic. We need no testimony from any scientists to prove it.

Assume that babies do not exist prior to being conceived.
knowledge is learned over time by a human mind through exposure to information.
A baby is a human.
An atheist is someone who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Therefore, a baby has learned no knowledge prior to being conceived.
Someone who has no knowledge of god is an atheist.
Therefore all babies are atheist by default.

Sometimes people like to say that atheism is a religion. To them I say, it is like trying to argue that off is a TV channel.

If this still isn't adequate evidence, then consider these questions:

Why is it that what religion you have is determined by the geographic region and community in which you are raised?

If babies are born with intrinsic knowledge of god, gods, or other mystical beings why are their multiple religions at all?

How is it possible that a child raised in a secular household stay atheist until adulthood, if they are born with intrinsic knowledge of god, gods, or other mystical beings?

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB ;@MayCaesar There actually is: The fundamentalist church of latter day saints.
http://https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-Day_Saints
They were raided only a few years ago, they were found guilty of sexual assault, forced children into marriage, and child labor.

Maybe a better question is why are we standing on the side when other abuses, such as honor killings and cultural rape are allowed to take place in the name of religious freedom? It seems to me these things go way over the line.

Dee

@Happy_Killbot

****Maybe a better question is why are we standing on the side when other abuses, such as honor killings and cultural rape are allowed to take place in the name of religious freedom? It seems to me these things go way over the line.

You’re spot on people forget there’s over I : 9 billion Muslims worldwide and countries where Islam holds sway has some of the most inhumane laws under the Sharia system of law where homosexuality can get you killed , apostasy , unmarried sexual relations , blasphemy .

Whats hilarious to me is American fundies who believe Jesus would have approved of carrying a gun , denying people Universal health care , social welfare and housing , totally ignoring what Jesus actually preached 

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen ;
Care to comment, with a equal and fair counter argument?

(This comment from you isn't fair or equal from you now is it?)

"Using logic arguments with someone who doesn't value logic is a waste of time... TKDB will never address your argument, he doesn't care and is disingenuous."


@Happy_Killbot

A voluntarily intolerant Atheist, choosing to be intolerant towards those others who aren't Atheist oriented, their verbalized intolerance speaks volumes unto itself.

And the Atheist Revolution website, they apparently wear their intolerance publicly, for the entire internet to see?

A voluntarily Religious individual, who isn't voluntarily corrupting or manipulating any Religion for their own abusive purposes, is the proper example of any pro children, pro family, pro community, or pro Religious Freedom individual.

(Who don't go about creating a pro Religious website, to decry those who don't see things, or agree, with their pro Religious Freedom ways?)


I'm pro Atheist, pro family, pro community, and pro Religious Freedom, provided that no one is infringing on the Rights of others, who aren't infringing on the Rights of any Atheist individual to begin with?

And I've yet to hear one instance, in a Catholic church, in a Baptist church, or an any Denominations church, where Atheism has been decried, during any Religious service. 

Those corrupt, or manipulative, individuals who used Religion to abuse their victims with, aren't about being pro family, pro community, or pro Religious Freedom, and they deserve the negativity that any Atheist, or Non Religious individual, wants to negatively express in their direction, whether it's said in public, or here on the Internet? 

Show me your legitimate evidence to support your individual presented claims?

"Maybe a better question is why are we standing on the side when other abuses, such as honor killings and cultural rape are allowed to take place in the name of religious freedom?"

What Religion states that honor killings, or culture rape, are examples of non corrupted, or non manipulated types of  Religious Freedom?

From what book, from what chapter, from what author, are you getting your perceptions from? 

Plaffelvohfen

@Happy_Killbot

Using logic arguments with someone who doesn't value logic is a waste of time... TKDB will never address your argument, he doesn't care and is disingenuous...

He's a sealioning troll, here's a picture...

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

You're off topic.

Please do you have a fair and equal Atheist counter comment to present? 

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

@Happy_Killbot

@Dee

@MayCaesar


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCDUxSPaW0w

"Christianity & Atheism - A Conversation Between Preacher and Atheist"

9,632 views

•Jun 28, 2015

Dee

@TKDB

Why you assume I’d be remotely interested in watching this is beyond me 

TKDB

@Plaffelvohfen

@Dee

@Happy_Killbot

@MayCaesar


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9TfkdgeFc

"From Atheist to Christian at Yale - Dr. Paul Lim"

1,455,499 views

•Dec 24, 2017

"We recognize that all people have questions, but very few spaces exist to have open, honest, and respectful discourse around the deepest questions humans ask.
Join us for DIG & DELVE! What is DIG & DELVE?
DIG & DELVE is an annual conference in Ottawa that is all about giving people a safe space to engage in discussion and explore deep issues that humans have been wrestling with for a long time.
One popular worldview promoted in our media is that it is foolish to believe in God. Influential writers disparage those interested in considering the relevance of faith to life."

(Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence. – Richard Dawkins) 

"At DIG & DELVE we hope to provide an open, honest and respectful environment where people can explore reasons why faith makes sense and why it is meaningful to give consideration to the life and teaching of Jesus.
 We hope to encourage curiosity and a healthy critical inquisitiveness. People coming from a spectrum of world-views, Christian and otherwise, are welcome.
At DIG & DELVE, we gather talented experts in their fields to come and share their opinions about deep issues human wrestle with and together we discuss some of the latest research around these questions.

Expect to be challenged. Join us at DIG & DELVE."

TKDB

@Dee

The provided video information, is a fair and equal conversation, for the public to be educated on.

"Why you assume I’d be remotely interested in watching this is beyond me" 

Dee

@TKDB

***The provided video information, is a fair and equal conversation, for the public to be educated on

Well knock yourself out.  I’ve no desire to watch a Bible thumper in a red dress preaching B S based on a book of fairytales 

TKDB

@Dee

Are you maybe utilizing an Atheist biased perception, against another Atheist, who in the video, was willing to have a fair and equal conversation, in regards to Religion and Atheism, in a public setting?

If you honestly watched the Video, your biased perception of it, gets self dismissed in your regards to these words from you:

"Well knock yourself out.  I’ve no desire to watch a Bible thumper in a red dress preaching B S based on a book of fairy tales"

The preacher isn't Bible thumping, he's having a Fair, and Equal conversation with an Atheist, who is being Equal, and Fair to the preacher, in front of the Public, that's been watched or viewed 9,632 times.

So you're making my argument, via by your "own individualized Atheist," perception over a video, without I guess even watching it? 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB I need no books to source the evidence of religious abuse, as I transitioned from a traditional christian family to the side of reason at a young age. I remember the pastor once giving a sermon on how atheists should be treated, suggesting they be converted by all means necessary. I need no book to tell me what I and so many others have experienced.

What is the #1 stereotype associated with Catholic priests?

Honor killings happen in the US. This should be adequate proof of religious abuse occurring even here.
https://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/news/a4986/honor-killings-in-america/

The Quran, the holy book of Islam, teaches women to be subservient to men, through obedience and modesty. On top of this, the book also promotes violence toward non believers and those of differing faiths. Even just a casual read will reveal that the book is rather violent.

You might want to argue that it isn't really what religion is teaching, those who abuse it are going against what is right, but the problem with this is that the bible does not makes clear what is "right and wrong" when it can be continually reinterpreted to mean whatever you like. The bible is so full of contradictions that you can basically make it say anything.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

Human beings have been raping and killing each other for years, haven't they?

Man has been killing man, since he could pick up a rock or a club, before the Quran, or the Bible, came into existence, hasn't he?

I challenge any Atheist, to show me any evidence, where the Quran or the Bible, was found to be responsible for any human being, raping or killing another human being? 

Because it's easy to blame a book, when the majority of equal and fair human beings on the planet, wouldn't go about unfairly or unequally harming another individual, or individuals, because of what's "WRITTEN," in any book? 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB I challenge any and all religious persons to show me an example of someone dying in the name of nothing.

Examples of mass killing in the name of religion include:

The Spanish inquisition
All of the crusades
9/11
Every open atheist or non believer in theocratic countries that forbid it,
Anyone killed by someone with the mantra "Give 'em up to the almighty",
Anyone ritualistically sacrificed to the gods, for example the Aztec empire,

And of course from the bible itself: 

Noah's flood,
the cities Sodom and Gomorrah,
Egyptians killed during the passover,
Canaanites under Moses and Joshua,
and my personal favorite, the genocide of the Amalekites by Saul.

If you believe that the bible is an accurate historic account of things that happened, then you must automatically believe that killing in the name of religion. I am not blaming the book, I am blaming the ideas that promote injustice and intolerance in the name of things that have no evidence for whatsoever. We all laugh at the trope of the mentally deranged killer who claims his dog told him to do it, but religion is like this happening on a mass scale.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

I explained this again:

Some of humanity, took Religion and defiled it, through their personal manipulation of any Religion, or their personal corruption of any Religion, and committed their self caused atrocities, and no Religion had anything to do with their self defiling of any Religion.

"de·file1

/dəˈfīl/

verb

1. sully, mar, or spoil."

That's my response to your below argument:

"The Spanish inquisition
All of the crusades
9/11
Every open atheist or non believer in theocratic countries that forbid it,
Anyone killed by someone with the mantra "Give 'em up to the almighty",
Anyone ritualistically sacrificed to the gods, for example the Aztec empire,"

And of course from the bible itself: 

"Noah's flood,
the cities Sodom and Gomorrah,
Egyptians killed during the passover,
Canaanites under Moses and Joshua,
and my personal favorite, the genocide of the Amalekites by Saul."

"If you believe that the bible is an accurate historic account of things that happened, then you must automatically believe that killing in the name of religion."
(I believe that you are utilizing your perception, as a counter argument, point of view?)

"I am not blaming the book, I am blaming the ideas that promote injustice and intolerance in the name of things that have no evidence for whatsoever. We all laugh at the trope of the mentally deranged killer who claims his dog told him to do it, but religion is like this happening on a mass scale."

Mans worst enemy, is that some of humanity, is self abusing their knowledge of what right and wrong is?

In the United State's, a million and a half crimes, are committed each year:
Rape, Sexual Assaults, Murder, Murder/Suicide, Domestic Violence and Abuse, Child Abductions, Drive By Shootings, Mass Shootings, Robberies, Muggings, Non race on race gun violence, and race on race gun violence, and so on? 

Look at all of that self abuse, waged by some of humanity, against the rest of the humanity?

That's a lot of defiling going on, by the actions of those inhumane humans isn't it?

And still no mention, by any of the local or Nationwide news media, of the Bible, or the Quran, or any other Book for that matter, being blamed, for some of humanity being defiled by those other humans, is there?

I watch and listen to the news daily, to see if any Religion is being blamed for some of humanities actions, against their other fellow human beings? 

Dee

@TKDB


****The preacher isn't Bible thumping, he's having a Fair, and Equal conversation with an Atheist, who is being Equal, and Fair to the preacher, in front of the Public, that's been watched or viewed 9,632 times.

Why don’t you move in with him it sounds like love at fist sight , maybe invite the 9,632 “fans “ to the wedding ? 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB Yet there are fewer atheists in prison than there are in the general populace.

It is fallacious to assume that because crimes are committed outside of religion that this should mean that there is no correlation between religious belief and crime. Studies show that religion fails to make people more moral, in other words the decisions to or not to rape, kill, steal, and torture happen regardless of religious practice.

https://theconversation.com/religion-does-not-determine-your-morality-97895

So if religion serves no moral purpose, does it even have one, or is it just an idea virus, that spreads through populations and convinces them not to think to critically about their world, to accept authority at face value, and do whatever they say. To promote injustice in the face of injustice and servility in the name of self declared righteousness.

p.s. Is this really supposed to be a question? You should know if you watch and listen to the news daily or not, unless you have amnesia or something.
"I watch and listen to the news daily, to see if any Religion is being blamed for some of humanities actions, against their other fellow human beings? "

TKDB

@Dee

You've been again.

This is the theme of the forum:

"Can any Atheist explain some of the statements made by this website: "Atheist Revolution"

Your argument is off topic:

****The preacher isn't Bible thumping, he's having a Fair, and Equal conversation with an Atheist, who is being Equal, and Fair to the preacher, in front of the Public, that's been watched or viewed 9,632 times.

"Why don’t you move in with him it sounds like love at fist sight , maybe invite the 9,632 “fans “ to the wedding ?"

@Dee,

Do you have any equal and fair conversation to add to the topic? 

Dee

@TKDB

You’re flagging me because I won’t watch your video of a guy in a red dress preaching? Ooooookay  go for it ......

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

You know what, if those Atheist inmates who are incarcerated in prison, didn't commit their unnecessary crimes, then they wouldn't have found themselves in jail now would they?

"Yet there are fewer atheists in prison than there are in the general populace."

"It is fallacious to assume that because crimes are committed outside of religion that this should mean that there is no correlation between religious belief and crime. Studies show that religion fails to make people more moral, in other words the decisions to or not to rape, kill, steal, and torture happen regardless of religious practice." 

"So if religion serves no moral purpose, does it even have one, or is it just an idea virus, that spreads through populations and convinces them not to think to critically about their world, to accept authority at face value, and do whatever they say. 

"To promote injustice in the face of injustice and servility in the name of self declared righteousness."

Here's my fair and equal observation about your individual pro Atheist argument:

Religion serves a Purpose to those who are any Religion Oriented.

Anyone has the Right to pursue their Religious Freedoms, if they aren't personally hurting me, now don't they? 

Yes, any Religion has a Purpose, and no it's not an (Idea Virus, and that grouping of those two words, is a sly hint to me, is that you're maybe an Atheist Extremist?)

"is it just an idea virus, that spreads through populations and convinces them not to think to critically about their world, to accept authority at face value, and do whatever they say."

And those incarcerated Atheist inmates, they aren't, in a sense, a virus, of sorts, unto themselves, are they? 

Look at how they've convinced themselves, that by breaking the laws that landed themselves in jail with, that maybe their law breaking selves, should have been fair and equal to themselves, and to the rest of the Public, and now they've spread themselves, throughout the various prison populations, that are spread, throughout the United States huh? 

I see, the critical thinking that you're lamenting over, that same critical Atheist thinking wasn't able to keep them out of jail was it? 

It looks like they accepted their Atheist morals at face value, and their Atheist servitude speaks volumes unto itself, doesn't it? 

"To promote injustice in the face of injustice and servility in the name of self declared righteousness."

Those incarcerated Atheist are doing a great job, at promoting how they viewed justice, by their crimes, committed against the Public right?

Their Atheist self righteousness is self evident to me, is it self evident to you? 

(I watch and listen to the news daily, to see if any Religion is being blamed for some of humanities actions, against their other fellow human beings?)

"p.s. Is this really supposed to be a question? You should know if you watch and listen to the news daily or not, unless you have amnesia or something."

You're Atheist perception, is more educational, than any of the news, on the TV or radio, combined is.

None of those News Media outlets have anything on You.

When it comes to the Atheist reference material in general, Wikipedia has nothing on your Atheist perception either.

So please, continue to educate me? 

Dee

@TKDB

Reported for trolling

ZeusAres42

@Happy_Killbot

A lot of people will just not get what a-theism is which you and I know is a lack of belief. And a lot of people will just think we're trying to drive a-theism, will say a-theism is a belief system, will group all a-theists on the same par as one another as if it is some newly founded cult, which is completely absurd and much more. The atheists before us knew what they meant when they called themselves atheists, and so do the people of today like you and I know what this word means!

If you adhere to a theistic religion you're a theist with theistic beliefs. If you don't adhere to a theistic religion then you're not a theist (you're an a-theist) with no theistic beliefs. And it is that simple.

TKDB

@Dee

You're being off topic still:

"You’re flagging me because I won’t watch your video of a guy in a red dress preaching? Ooooookay  go for it ......"

This is the theme of the forum:

"Can any Atheist explain some of the statements made by this website: "Atheist Revolution"

and I would appreciate some equal and fair arguments? To be fair and equal to the forum, whether someone is an Atheist oriented, or Religious Freedom oriented?

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

Do you agree with the Atheist messaging that was shared with this forum, via the, "Atheist Revolution," website? 

And what are your thoughts on the below questions?

I'm pro Atheist, and pro Religious Freedom, along with being pro Community, and pro Family.


I have yet to see one news story, where a Religious parent, or parents were arrested for brainwashing their kids with any Religion? 

And I have as of yet to see a news story, where an Atheist parent, or parents were arrested for brainwashing their kids with Atheism, either? 

And I found that that  realization came to me, while reading some of the information from this website: "Atheist Revolution." 
 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB This debate is starting to go off in all sorts of directions now, so let me recap so we can stop with all the straw men.

I am not arguing against religious freedom, and I agree with you that people should be allowed to believe what they like, unless it infringes on the rights and freedoms of others.

Religions do infringe on the rights and freedoms of others, for example by indoctrinating children into unfalsifiable structure of faith, promoting oppression of women, and interrupting critical thought.

People who deliberately commit crimes, regardless of belief should be punished for those crimes. However, if there is no afterlife then doing something that would land you in jail is a risky move, because you will never get that time back.

an "idea virus" is approximately equivalent in definition to a biological pathogen or a computer virus, although it only exists in the mind, and is propagated through speech. It's means of reproduction is only through repetition in social context.

To make this intuitive, lets consider the meme. Meme is short for memetics which is the study of culture and information. A meme is analogous to a gene insofar as a meme is a portion of memetics, the same way a gene is a portion of the genetic whole. Some memes can also be said to be idea viruses, and the similarity between memes and viruses is a bit uncanny. Both fully rely on their host in order to spread and reproduce and provide little or no benefit in return. Like viruses, memes can evolve over time to become more effective at spreading themselves, with the most effective strains becoming dominant and less effective ones disappearing quickly.

Now lets think about all this in the context of religion. Religions also evolve over time, becoming more effective at spreading themselves and maintaining dominance over as many minds as possible. For example, the christian religion went through many periods of change which resulted in new "strains" or denominations being created, the same way viruses and biological life forms evolve. Unlike memes, religion goes for a long strategy effecting it's hosts for years rather than a few seconds. This maximizes the chance of the ideas spreading to new hosts, namely by the children of the effected passing the information to their kids. Coincidentally there are many viruses that are spread from mother to child through pregnancy, such as Zika or HIV. Of course, religion is spread once the child is adequately developed to at least partially understand what is being said, one of my original points from above.

There are of course, many other idea viruses besides religion. They are considered the pinnacle of successful marketing, a necessary component of all social change, and the cornerstone of many successful political campaigns. Many ideas are helpful, for example a new skill or philosophy, and these spread alongside other ideas within a society.

I hope now you are more educated than you were before.

TKDB

Some of the other Internet based Atheist websites:


https://www.atheists.org/

"We’re fighting to protect
real religious freedom.

Since 1963, American Atheists has protected the absolute separation of religion from government, raised the profile of atheists and atheism in our nation’s public and political discourse, and educated Americans about atheism. Now, more than ever, we need your help."

http://www.atheistsites.net/#FL

Some References from this particular website:

"Atheist Family Life

Atheist Parents - The information and resources on this website can help atheist parents deal with the many problems they confront in trying to raise their children in a predominantly Christian society such as the United States. Obviously there is no practical way for these parents to prevent their kids from being exposed to religious doctrines, so sooner or later explanations and answers will be needed, and the site contains suggestions about how to handle some of the questions that are likely to arise. There is also an article about home-schooling and a list of books that can be helpful to atheist parents.

Kids Without God - This website was created by the American Humanist Association to encourage curiosity, rational thinking, and tolerance among young people. It is divided into separate sections for kids, teenagers, and parents, each with content designed to reflect the interests and intellectual abilities of each group. Much of the focus is on providing accurate information with regard to traditional religions, evolution, the scientific method, and other issues that young people usually think about when developing their world view.

Camp Quest - This organization provides summer camp experiences for the children of atheists, freethinkers and humanists. Typical activities include hiking, swimming, dancing, and sports competitions. The first camp, serving 20 kids, was held in Boone County, Kentucky in August of 1996. Since then many other camping locations have been created throughout the United States. The camps provide an alternative to the thousands of camps operated by churches and pro-religious groups such as the Boy Scouts."

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB What are you saying you haven yet to see one news story, where a Religious parent, or parents were arrested for brainwashing their kids with any Religion? I gave you a link above about the Mormon church in Texas that forced kids into marriage and labor. Are you ignoring it on the grounds that it isn't specifically a news story?

Here are a few links to news stories about it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/08/world/americas/08iht-texas.1.11761542.html
https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/raid-yfz-ranch-ten-years-later/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-yfz-ranch/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/rick-perry-vs-the-mormons-2008-yearning-for-zion-ranch-raid
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32113735/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/judge-resolves-texas-polygamist-custody-case/

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

"This debate is starting to go off in all sorts of directions now, so let me recap so we can stop with all the straw men."

No, it's not, its a Sound, Fair, and Equal Debate.

You're the Atheist, (who, through your individual contexts, brought the Atheist inmates argument, to the debate, didn't you? )

Because you like to verbally go after religion with your "Individual Atheist Idea Virus rhetoric?:



Child abuse is a virus.

Murder/Suicide is a virus.

Rape is a virus.

Mass shooters, are a virus.

The mass shooting student's who killed, others, is a virus.

The marijuana addict parents who use marijuana around their own kids, are a parental virus to their kids.

And the Atheist inmates, are a virus to the Quality of Life, that they violated by victimizing their victims.


You are the most creative Atheist, that I've seen, who like to verbally dismantle Religion, to the psychological degree, that you've chosen to before the audience of this forum? 


"There are of course, many other idea viruses besides religion. They are considered the pinnacle of successful marketing, a necessary component of all social change, and the cornerstone of many successful political campaigns. Many ideas are helpful, for example a new skill or philosophy, and these spread alongside other ideas within a society."
 
Continue to educate the public, through the teachable process, that you're putting on, expression wise, via your Individual Atheist platform? 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB You are giving me a lot of credit here, and I thank you for that. However I guarantee you I did not come up with these ideas first, although I definitely put them together in ways that is a little unorthodox, but sticking to tried and true arguments just isn't my style. I like to think outside the box when I can.

You don't seem to understand the argument I am making about idea viruses, based on the examples from your response. 

First off, in order to be an idea virus it has to be an idea, that is specifically arranged pieces of information, or a belief.

None of your examples meet that first criteria on account of they are all actions.

That being said, the end result in every case could be caused by ideas.

For example, if you believe that the only way to protect the environment from climate change is to stop illegal immigration and rampant corporations then deciding to go on a shooting spree may be the result. These were the motivations behind the El Paso shooter as laid out in his manifesto posted online.

If you believe that a woman's only purpose is obedience to men, and that they are expected to be subservient to men, then rape is justified.

If you believe that there is an afterlife you may be more willing to take risks in this life, and if you think there is not then you may be less willing to. This increased risk behavior is one theory to explain why there are so few atheists and agnostics in prison.

I pointed this out in my original post, but I will reiterate. According to the Pew research center, which is a highly trusted source, has detailed that religious "nones" have been growing in the US for many years, and is now larger than many religious groups including Catholics. I am hardly alone, my ideas and the concepts I have laid out here are not as individualistic as you may think.
https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

Dee

@TKDB

Reported for incessant trolling 

MayCaesar

@TKDB

I have always been an atheist, yet I have never encountered any of the websites you have mentioned in this thread. I have never needed an external validation of my world view; all I needed was logic and personal experience.

People are atheists by default, meaning that, up until the moment of first contact with any religion, they never think about gods, angels and other related categories. It is necessary to interact with a particular religious community or history in order to become a believer; you do not become a believer by default.

In this regard, one should be more worried about the abundance of religious websites, which far outnumber atheist websites. Atheist websites do not say anything that people do not always know, unless they have unlearned what they knew through external conditioning  - while Christian, Muslim and other religious websites do push a narrative novel to the young and innocent thinker.

What is your opinion on the Internet being used to promote religious values?

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

@MayCaesar

@Dee

@ZeusAres42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGfIC0B5fbk

"The Absurdity of the Atheist Delusion"


(An excerpt from the video itself:) 

"Richard Dawkins, arguably the worlds most high profile atheist, believes than in the beginning, that there was nothing, and that nothing created everything"

"As he attempts to justify this belief, admitting than it defies common sense, the leaned Professor, calls nothing something."

(Notice in the video the reaction from his audience)

"Of course its counter intuitive, that you can get something from nothing, of course common sense doesn't allow you to get something from nothing."
"That's why its interesting."
"It's got to be interesting in order to give rise to the universe at all."
"Something pretty mysterious had to give rise to the origin of the universe."
"But exactly whats meant by nothing."
"But whatever it is, it's very, very simple."

(After he expresses himself, the audience is laughing.)

Then he responds with:

"Why is that funny?

(From George Pell)

"Well I think its a bit funny, to be trying to define nothing"

(The audience reaction confused the normally eloquent professor because hes not used to be the object of laughter. 
What he didn't realize was he was talking to people who were endowed by their creator with a virtue of common sense. 
This was just another case where the emperor had no clothes. 
Some should tell this man who has deceived million.
You're talking foolishness.)


Another excerpt from the video: 

"Because an Atheist actually believes nothing created everything, which is scientifically impossible."

So to any Atheist, is that true? 

That nothing created everything? 
(Which is scientifically impossible)

But I was under the impression that Science itself was the very tool, that disproves the Religious conversation?


So which one is it? 

That nothing created everything?

Or that Science has indeed disproved Religion conversation? 

TKDB

@MayCaesar

"What is your opinion on the Internet being used to promote religious values?" 

Its fair and equal, isn't it? 

If the some of the Atheist are using the Internet, to promote their Atheist values, then I guess its fair and equal if some of the Religious, if they maybe want to do the same thing as well?

The politics of the Atheist, isn't much different from the apparent politics of Religion, is there?


"In this regard, one should be more worried about the abundance of religious websites, which far outnumber atheist websites. Atheist websites do not say anything that people do not always know, unless they have unlearned what they knew through external conditioning  - while Christian, Muslim and other religious websites do push a narrative novel to the young and innocent thinker."


I wonder how many young thinkers, have been affect by the below realities? 

I'm more concerned about the abundance of guns in the United States, 393 million and growing?

I'm more concerned about those gun violence crimes, and the other crimes, that get committed in the U.S., on a daily basis? 

I'm more concerned about the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. at 22 million, and that number growing, day by day? 

Dee

@TKDB

Why are you asking atheists to quote on a piece by Dawkins? I’ve reported you again for deliberately trolling and will keep doing so

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB This Premise has been debunked countless times.

According to most religions, a god, gods, or other mystical being created the world. So then you must ask: what created god, gods or other mystical beings?

If the answer is nothing, you run into the same problem. God, gods or other mystical beings were created from noting.

There are only two solutions here: either everything always existed or things can be created from nothing.

What evidence do we have that something can be created from nothing?

The laws of thermodynamics explicitly forbid it, if this were possible then over unity would be possible, which would mean infinite energy. In classical physics this doesn't occur.

However there are a few rare exceptions, notable the existence of dark energy, called so because we have no idea what it is, only that we observe its effects through the accelerating expansion of the universe. This expansion creates more space which in turn creates even more space, constantly creating something from nothing.

You might want to read about Einstein's biggest blunder, the cosmological constant.
https://phys.org/news/2017-01-violations-energy-early-universe-dark.html

AlofRI

@TKDB ;
Crackpots are crackpots whether they are Christian, white supremacist's, Nazi's, communists, liberal wackos, conservative wackos or atheists, etc.! There will BE wackos in about every category. That doesn't mean every person in that category are wackos. (unless it's a wacko category like Nazis).

I don't consider Christians "majority wackos", you shouldn't consider atheists majority wackos. We have the right to believe in evolution, you have the right to believe in creation. Let's just not let the wackos control us. 

 

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

What has been debunked?

This explanation by Richard Dawkins?

"Of course its counter intuitive, that you can get something from nothing, of course common sense doesn't allow you to get something from nothing."
"That's why its interesting."
"It's got to be interesting in order to give rise to the universe at all."
"Something pretty mysterious had to give rise to the origin of the universe."
"But exactly whats meant by nothing."
"But whatever it is, it's very, very simple."


This notion has been debunked? 

"Because an Atheist actually believes nothing created everything, which is scientifically impossible."



This notion has been debunked?

"That nothing created everything?"



This notion has been debunked? 

"Or that Science has indeed disproved Religion conversation?"


Or, how about this notion, Is a book, able to create itself from nothing?

Something had to be directed physically, for a book to be created, didn't it?   

Because a book, can't be created from nothing right? 



When the college aged kids were asked that question, they had a surprised look on their faces, didn't they? 

So something had to happen for you, and I, both to be created right?

Or is that notion debunk-able as well? 


Because nothing can create nothing.

TKDB

@AlofRI

"Crackpots are crackpots whether they are Christian, white supremacist's, Nazi's, communists, liberal wackos, conservative wackos or atheists, etc.! There will BE wackos in about every category. That doesn't mean every person in that category are wackos. (unless it's a wacko category like Nazis)."

"I don't consider Christians "majority wackos", you shouldn't consider atheists majority wackos."


And I didn't imply that either, now did I?

I didn't say anyone was a wacko.


 "We have the right to believe in evolution, you have the right to believe in creation. Let's just not let the wackos control us. "


And I'm an independent thinker, and no one is controlling me.

But, I can see how, some can allow their individual notions, to influence the very words that can come out of their mouths?

And in that video, I saw plenty of that going on?


Being that some of those Atheist participants, voluntarily said what they said, while being interviewed?

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB To answer your questions in order as they appear:

The idea that nothing comes from nothing

no

no

no

yes

yes

no

no

yes

sort of

no

And your last statement could be wrong.

Consider this: can you prove that the universe didn't start the moment this debate started? With everything exactly like it is?

The answer is you can't with any amount of science, philosophy, logic, or reasoning. For all we know this is the reality. All your memories of past events were formed like that when the universe formed. All the planets, the stars, everything from here to infinity just happened by pure chance to be like it is for no reason in particular. It's ridiculously unlikely that this is true, but we can never prove that it isn't. We assume the universe is billions of years old because that most accurately models, explains, and predicts the way things are. It is useful to think that this is the case, and if we find one single piece of evidence proving that this isn't true, we will change our model.

Right now the most accurate model we have says that the universe came into existence 13.8 billion years ago in a period of cosmic inflation, there is no before this point because there was no time prior to this point. This is not the only theory, just the most popular. There is also the theory that the universe has always existed, creating new universes and new big bangs which cyclically replenish the universe. There is evidence in the cosmic microwave background that suggests that there were black holes which pre-date the big bang possibly by trillions of years, such is a theory by Roger Penrose. https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/cosmic-hotspots-may-be-evidence-universe-existed-ours-ncna909646

ZeusAres42

@AlofRI

Crackpots are crackpots whether they are Christian, white supremacist's, Nazi's, communists, liberal wackos, conservative wackos or atheists, etc.! There will BE wackos in about every category. That doesn't mean every person in that category are wackos. (unless it's a wacko category like Nazis).

I don't consider Christians "majority wackos", you shouldn't consider atheists majority wackos. We have the right to believe in evolution, you have the right to believe in creation. Let's just not let the wackos control us.

There is a thing in psychology called attribution. What this means is that someone may see or read an atheist's comments somewhere, and then see another somewhere else and then they will tend to attribute all atheists as being one and the same entity. Similarly, there are those who will attribute a group of Muslims as being the same type of people that are terrorists which of course is also a common example of this cognitive error in thinking.

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

What does this statement from you, have to do with this forum at hand?
(Because you're off topic.)

"There is a thing in psychology called attribution."
"What this means is that someone may see or read an atheist's comments somewhere, and then see another somewhere else and then they will tend to attribute all atheists as being one and the same entity.'
"Similarly, there are those who will attribute a group of Muslims as being the same type of people that are terrorists which of course is also a common example of this cognitive error in thinking."

Did I mention anything about about , "a thing in Psychology called Attribution?"

No, I did not.