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In this Debate
Jesus Christ existed based on classical history, Jewish Classical history and Christian sources
Debate Information
Get wrecked:
First, I'd like to explain and educate the ignorant in a traditional manner and provide a thourough
-wooping ,to as
many as need it in this traditional education course.
This is my field of expertise, and I simple want to wreck someone in their perception of an argument.
Without Ado:
A matter of fact
Sources, as a standard of determining Jesus as a historical person and God:
The sources normally discussed fall into three main categories: (1) classical (that is, Greco-Roman), (2) Jewish and (3) Christian.
Classical
Historian Tacitus:
Based on the fact tactitus was a Roman historian
1.) it is evident he documented classical history or documented the history of classical events
TACIT CONFIRMATION. Roman historian Tacitus’s last major work, Annals, mentions a “Christus” who was executed by Pontius Pilate and from whom the Christians derived their name. Tacitus’s brief reference corroborates historical details of Jesus’ death from the New Testament and relates Christians to Jesus Christ.
Standard met: Jesus existence is Historically confirmed by a classical historian
Tacitus book xv:
CHRESTIANS OF CHRIST. Book XV of Tacitus’s Annals is preserved in the 11th–12th-century Codex Mediceus II, a collection of medieval manuscripts now housed in the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana in Florence, Italy, along with other manuscripts and books that belonged to the Medici family.
Highlighted above is the Latin text reading “… whom the crowd called ‘Chrestians.’ The founder of this name, Christ, had been executed in the reign of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate …” Photo: Codex Mediceus 68 II, fol. 38r, the Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana, Florence, Italy.
By stating that the founder of Christians is Christ, and speaking in reference to a person executed under the reign of ceasur, tactitus was talking about
1.an actual person
2. The identity of the person being Jesus Christ
3. A classical historical account of what happened to Jesus Christ
Josephus (classical Jewish):
Josephus was a jewish historian therefore
1.as a Jewish historian, it is evident he documented classical history or documented the history of classical events:
JAMES, BROTHER OF JESUS. In Jewish Antiquities, parts of which are included in this mid-17th-century book of translations, Josephus refers to a James, who is described as “the brother of Jesus-who-is-called-Messiah.” Josephus’s mention of Jesus to specify which James was being executed by the high priest Ananus in 62 C.E. affirms the existence of the historical Jesus mentioned in the Bible.
Wellum, professor of Christian theology at Southern, said "the evidence for the resurrection is well known and it consists of three interlocking pieces:
These sources are usually independent of each other (e.g. Jewish sources do not draw upon Roman sources)
Of the two passages, the James passage in Book 20 is used by scholars to support the existence of Jesus, the Testimonium Flavianum in Book 18 his crucifixion.
Josephus' James passage attests to the existence of Jesus as a historical person and that some of his contemporaries considered him the Messiah.
Conclusion and summary of Classical and Jewish History or world history:
historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work, Annals (c. AD 116), book 15, chapter 44. The relevant passage reads: "called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."
Scholars generally consider Tacitus's reference to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source about early Christianity that is in unison with other historical records.
William L. Portier has stated that the consistency in the references by Tacitus, Josephus and the letters to Emperor Trajan by Pliny the Younger reaffirm the validity of all three accounts.
John Dominic Crossan considers the passage important in establishing that Jesus existed and was crucified, and states: "That he was crucified is as sure as anything historical can ever be, since both Josephus and Tacitus... agree with the Christian accounts on at least that basic fact."
Bart D. Ehrman states: "Tacitus's report confirms what we know from other sources, that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, sometime during Tiberius's reign.
Eddy and Boyd state that it is now "firmly established" that Tacitus provides a non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.
Therefore Jesus Christs existence is a historical reality.
Suetonius ( an asshole )
The Roman historian Suetonius (c. 69 – after 122 CE) made references to early Christians and their leader in his work Lives of the Twelve Caesars The references appear in Claudius 25 and Nero 16 which describe the lives of Roman Emperors Claudius and Nero. The Nero 16 passage refers to the abuses by Nero and mentions how he inflicted punishment on Christians – which is generally dated to around AD 64.
This passage shows the clear contempt of Suetonius for Christians - the same contempt expressed by Tacitus and Pliny the younger in their writings, but does not refer to Jesus himself however doesn't have to based on contextual elements
The earlier passage in Claudius, includes a reference to Jesus, but In Claudius 25 Suetonius refers to the expulsion of Jews by Claudius and states:
"Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome."
The reference in Claudius 25 involves the agitations in the Jewish community which led to the expulsion of some Jews from Rome by Claudius, and is likely the same event mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles (18:2).
Most historians date this expulsion to around AD 49–50.Suetonius refers to the leader of the Christians as Chrestus, a term also used by used by Tacitus, referred in Latin dictionaries as a (amongst other things) version of 'Christus'.
the confusion of Suetonius also points to the lack of Christian interpolation, for a Christian scribe would not have confused the Jews with Christians
Arechological contributions (not-exhaustive)
There is a limestone burial box from the 1st century known as the James Ossuary with the Aramaic inscription, "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."
Questions in the form of assessing prejudice:
Considering Historians record or document history, Why can't Christians be historians?
Additional standards of proof:
Standards of Proof met:
1) the fact of the empty tomb
An examination of both Pauline and gospel material leads to eight lines of evidence in support of the conclusion that Jesus's tomb was discovered empty:
(1) Paul's testimony implies the historicity of the empty tomb,
(2) the presence of the empty tomb pericope in the pre-Markan passion story supports its historicity,
(3) the use of 'on the first day of the week' instead of 'on the third day' points to the primitiveness of the tradition, (4) the narrative is theologically unadorned and non-apologetic,
(5) the discovery of the tomb by women is highly probable,
(6) the investigation of the empty tomb by the disciples is historically probable,
(7) it would have been impossible for the disciples to proclaim the resurrection in Jerusalem had the tomb not been empty and would have been the basis for early Non-Christian sources to document historical disagreement
Logically,
(7a)since there is no historical contention of Jesus Christs ressurection, but Historial sources that confirm his cricufixion, it is understood and assessed his ressurection by lack of contention, happened
(8) the Jewish polemic presupposes the empty tomb
Burden of proof met for Jesus Christs ressurection after being verified as a legitimate historical person
Seneatorial docket
The seneatorial docket, written by Pontious Pilate clearly states that Pilate met Jesus after his ressurection, undeniable proof of the ressurection of Jesus Christ.
2) the resurrection appearances of Christ
-seneatorial docket
Three additional sources exist in the senatorial docket confirming God's ressurection
1. Pilates wife
2. Roman Soldiers
3. Herod
3) the transformation of the disciples and the establishment of the church. This data is interlocking since one piece of the data without the others would not provide a good case."
Based on the establishment of the early Church, it's growth and a lack of contention regarding the ressurection written by any historian it is concluded that no historian was able to document anything related to forging the ressurection of Jesus Christ the King of the universe and God Almighty!
Debate Type: Lincoln-Douglas Debate
Voting Format: Casual Voting
Opponent:
Time Per Round: Blitz - 15 Minutes Per Round
Voting Period: 24 Hours
Status: Not Accepted (Post Argument To Accept The Debate)
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