Is being GOOD good enough to earn God's gift of eternal Life?

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD You know, by this logic then rape, murder, genocide, patricide, suicide, sodomy, theft, torture, and literally anything else that is considered immoral is permissible, because at the end you go to heaven just because you believed without evidence in a mystical being.

Christians truly are evil creatures.

MayCaesar

The way I see it, if you need to hide behind Jesus to deal with the consequences of your mistakes, then you have learned nothing from those mistakes and have not made up in any way for their consequences.

A strong individual is the one who owns their mistakes, who accepts full responsibility for them, does not make excuses, learns from them, repairs the damage and moves on.

Suppose you have stolen money from someone. What are you going to do? Go to church and pray? That is not very helpful. No, you get up, find that person you stole from, return their money, acknowledge that you have been a bad boy and ask what you can do to redeem yourself. Do not hide behind your religion in order to avoid responsibility; own it.

RickeyD

@MayCaesar ; There is no hiding with Jesus...all is laid bare and honest and repentance is mandatory. Jesus suffered and died to provide you forgiveness of sin and a pardon from death in Hell. You access forgiveness through repentance and belief in Jesus as your Lord, the Living God who died so that you could live as He defeated death and Hell for you. If you continue in the foolishness of atheism, you will die in your sins and you will die a second death in Hell in futility.

MayCaesar

@RickeyD

What does this have to do with my comment? I was not talking about atheism or theism at all; I was talking about the importance of owning your mistakes, as opposed to trying to wash them out by some attribution to a third party.

Repentance does not help anyone; action does. Repentance does not fix mistakes; action does.

RickeyD

@MayCaesar Repentance is "action" and without repentance, there is no forgiveness of sin. Jesus has warned you...

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD ;

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot
Are you the premiere Athiest in this forum?

Show your evidence, that some of the incarcerated non religious individuals,  aren't evil creatures as well, in the same light of your own non religious rhetoric?

"Christians truly are evil creatures."

Terrorists are evil creatures.

A parents drug abuse, around their own kids, or families, the action of drug abusing evil creatures?

Because a lack of self respect, or integrity, or courtesy towards others, is a true sign of the Athiest ideology, or the Christian ideology? 

Which one is it?

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB Ok, but only if you accept my definition of "evil creature"

Evil Creature: Someone who is so blinded by dogma and indoctrination that they can not see any possibility for morality other that that what they believe.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheists_in_U.S._prisons_argument_and_atheist_morality

Atheists in jail.

There are millions of human evil creatures on the internet, and they use the internet, to play Word, and Mind games with the public.

It makes one wonder, how many terrorists groups, might be utilizing the internet, on a daily basis? 

"Ok, but only if you accept my definition of "evil creature"

Evil Creature: Someone who is so blinded by dogma and indoctrination that they can not see any possibility for morality other that that what they believe."

ZeusAres42

"You cannot reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into." - Jonathon Swift

For some people, I think this stands and always will. Shame really.

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB It's statistical though.

Consider this, as a Christian you are much more likely to end up in jail than I an atheist, because the percentage of Christians far outweighs the percentage of non-believers in US Jails.

Statistically speaking, Religion did nothing to make people more moral, therefor many Christians are evil creatures.

smoothie

The real question is why do christians stride for the promise of eternal life in a realm without challenges?

First of all, eternal life sounds like torture in itself. I don't care where I spend it, that sounds like a never-ending torture no matter the circumstance. I want to live a life of purpose and then die, if I woke up in heaven I would be mad. Also without ailments, challenges, bad things, life becomes mundane, dull, and more pointless. You would take everything for granted.

I feel the happiness of heaven would go away quickly if god did not drug everyone there to feel good all the time. This could be the case, but what's the point of living in heaven? I would rather go to a black void of nothing.

Happy_Killbot

@smoothie Looking back at my path out of the oppression and madness of religion, the thoughts of most religious people are as if they are in grief, but never get out of the "denial" stage. The delusion of everlasting life and the fear of eternal damnation has left them stunned in a state of subservience, a childish inability to grow and develop as humans.

I am convinced that the purpose of religion has been to gently guide those who can not think into a state of willful subservience at their own hand, so that the elite of society can take advantage of them without a revolution.

The religious live their lives in a dream of fantasy, one from which they are afraid to wake up.

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

@Happy_Killbot

And the Internet is a tool used by some as a false attitudinal device, because some are of the false attitude, that the artificiality of the internet gives any non religious talking head, any sort of an advantage because they're using the internet as their own non religious pulpit device.

Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual.

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

@Happy_Killbot


https://thewalrus.ca/atheist-at-the-pulpit/

Atheist at the Pulpit.

"Atheist at the Pulpit

Can the United Church survive without God?"

RickeyD

@smoothie ; God the Father will not force eternal life upon you...if you don't desire it, continue as your are and you will die in sin and die a second death in Hell in futility. You have the free will to make that choice. Enjoy.

xlJ_dolphin_473

@RickeyD
You say that the atheist believes love is the key to life, not God. Although I am an atheist, I do not think this way. Instead, I believe that science and rationalism is the key to life. I believe that acting logically, based on what will be best for you in the long term, is the best way to act, and that once you have science as an explanation for the existence of Universe, Earth, stars, planets, etc... you no longer need God to step in and explain everything for you. I always accept the best possible explanation, and if no explanation is good, I try to make my own. For a long time, God was the best possible explanation for the existence for Universe, Earth, stars, planets, etc. But the early scientists saw that this explanation was clearly flawed, so they set about creating their own. I do not have to do this, as science is the best possible explanation that I have available to me, and it is a good explanation, so I am satisfied.
RickeyD said:

Jim, it does NOT matter how moral, how pure, how good, how philanthropic you are (Ephesians 2:8-9; Isaiah 64:6), you have sinned (Romans 3:23) and fallen short of God's standard of perfection necessary to enter the Kingdom of God subsequent to the death of your body in Time (Revelation 21:27). NOTHING impure will be permitted to enter the Kingdom; therefore, God Himself left eternity approximately 2019-yrs ago and entered Time (Philippians 2:8) through the womb of a virgin (Galatians 4:4; Matthew 1:23) in order to escape the sin-nature that follows the seed of man (Adam) (1 Corinthians 15:22).

This paragraph of yours is interspersed with little pieces of evidence from the Bible. I have said this once, and I will say it again. The Bible is not valid evidence for God or God-related phenomena. The Bible was written by Jesus's disciples, who obviously want people to believe its words, because they believed they had seen God. This is the problem with using "evidence" from the Bible, and yet how many times I say this, you continue to use the Bible as if it is a perfectly valid source of evidence.  This makes no sense, and it does not strengthen your case.

Finally, I move on to your last point, that unless you repent for your "sins" and "believe-trust" in God, you will not go to Heaven. I do not believe that Heaven exists, because there is no empirical evidence for it anywhere. If you can explain about how Heaven works, which dimension it is in and why on earth we have not found it using deep-space radio telescopes yet, maybe I will pay attention to this evidence. But if you manage to find this evidence, then either:
1) You are about to be carried off as a hero of science;
2) You are lying;
3) You are just plain wrong.

It is probably the last one.

In conclusion, I believe that rationalism is the key to life, not love, not God, and that there is no empirical evidence for the existence of Heaven (or Hell for that matter) anywhere.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

And the Internet is a tool used by some as a false attitudinal device, because some are of the false attitude, that the artificiality of the internet gives any non religious talking head, any sort of an advantage because they're using the internet as their own non religious pulpit device.

Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual.


"Looking back at my path out of the oppression and madness of religion, the thoughts of most religious people are as if they are in grief, but never get out of the "denial" stage. The delusion of everlasting life and the fear of eternal damnation has left them stunned in a state of subservience, a childish inability to grow and develop as humans.

I am convinced that the purpose of religion has been to gently guide those who can not think into a state of willful subservience at their own hand, so that the elite of society can take advantage of them without a revolution.

The religious live their lives in a dream of fantasy, one from which they are afraid to wake up."

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB Freedom of speech is still freedom of speech, and if I want to use my freedom of speech to tell you that religions are dumb, I can do that to my hearts content.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual.

And your non Religious preaching is still you preaching, your non Religious messaging to the masses.

Just as any Religious preaching is still preaching their Religious messaging to their masses as well.

It's the same concept.

"Freedom of speech is still freedom of speech, and if I want to use my freedom of speech to tell you that religions are dumb, I can do that to my hearts content."

So please continue to Preach "that religions are dumb," because your non Religious perception, is still a way to teach both the Religious masses, and the non Religious masses, about how you view others through your very own choices of words, or IE your non Religious preachings.

The internet is the best way to be educated from both, the Religious preaching, and the non Religious preaching perspectives. 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB What's your point?

Preaching was never the issue, it was the content of the preaching that is.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

My point:

Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual.

And your non Religious preaching is still you preaching, your non Religious messaging to the masses.

Just as any Religious preaching is still preaching their Religious messaging to their masses as well.

It's the same concept.

"Freedom of speech is still freedom of speech, and if I want to use my freedom of speech to tell you that religions are dumb, I can do that to my hearts content."

So please continue to Preach "that religions are dumb," because your non Religious perception, is still a way to teach both the Religious masses, and the non Religious masses, about how you view others through your very own choices of words, or IE your non Religious preachings.

The internet is the best way to be educated from both, the Religious preaching, and the non Religious preaching perspectives.  

@Happy_Killbot

"Preaching was never the issue, it was the content of the preaching that is."

Your non Religious content is just as contentious as the Religious content is, isn't it? 

Otherwise, why waste the effort of calling Religions "dumb?"

Is the purpose of your non Religious content, a way to maybe indoctrinate, some of those individuals, who are Religious, through the very content of your non Religious messaging? 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB So in other words, you don't have a point.

Were you dropped on your head as a kid or did you just eat a lot of lead?

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

So basically you're going to engage in "ridicule" to present a fair and equal counter argument?

"@TKDB So in other words, you don't have a point.

Were you dropped on your head as a kid or did you just eat a lot of lead?"

Please continue to Preach your non Religious content, and educate the masses with how your non Religious mindset operates. 

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB You leave me no choice. We can't have a discussion if you don't have a point.

Consider this: If I said "Capitalism has raised billions out of poverty"

What would that mean in the context of this discussion? Nothing. While that is certainly true, it has no purpose besides being true.

So when you say "Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual" You make no point and thus your words are empty, and devoid of purpose or meaning.

Facts do not an argument make.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

Keep going on with your Atheist Preaching content, that's your individual purpose, so that's all that I or anyone else should expect from you non Religious Atheist preaching?

That's my point to your preaching, you're No different than the Religious Preachers are. 

I expect NO less from you, and I know that your Atheist mindset, will continue to indoctrinate as many people with your Atheist preachings as you can.

Use your freedom of speech to Preach your Atheist messaging to your minds content.

And then continue to hide your non Religious preaching self, behind this mess from the same place that your preaching comes from?

"Consider this: If I said "Capitalism has raised billions out of poverty"

What would that mean in the context of this discussion? Nothing. While that is certainly true, it has no purpose besides being true.

So when you say "Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual" You make no point and thus your words are empty, and devoid of purpose or meaning.

Facts do not an argument make."

Isn't it easy, for an Atheist to Preach on the internet?

With everyone of you pro non Religious arguments, you're making my points, and arguments for me. 

Please continue to educate the internet with your Atheist preaching.

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB In case you haven't noticed, this is a debate website.

Not a "lets all agree and reaffirm our own beliefs echo chamber safe space."

You really were dropped on your head as a child weren't you?

Ironically, I expect no less from you.

Grow up and learn to deal with differing opinions instead of crying about it. If you want to be in a Christian echo chamber, go hang out with Rickey or something, or find a Christian forum.

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

You're not debating @Happy_Killbot

You're running your mouth, like a good Atheist.

"@TKDB In case you haven't noticed, this is a debate website.

Not a "lets all agree and reaffirm our own beliefs echo chamber safe space."

You really were dropped on your head as a child weren't you?

Ironically, I expect no less from you.

Grow up and learn to deal with differing opinions instead of crying about it. If you want to be in a Christian echo chamber, go hang out with Rickey or something, or find a Christian forum."

And more of the same:

"@TKDB You leave me no choice. We can't have a discussion if you don't have a point.

Consider this: If I said "Capitalism has raised billions out of poverty"

What would that mean in the context of this discussion? Nothing. While that is certainly true, it has no purpose besides being true.

So when you say "Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual" You make no point and thus your words are empty, and devoid of purpose or meaning.

Facts do not an argument make."

Happy_Killbot

@TKDB Well that's just ironic isn't it?

TKDB

@Happy_Killbot

You're a Atheist pontificator.

pon·tif·i·cate

verb

/pänˈtifiˌkāt/

1. 1.

   express one's opinions in a way considered annoyingly pompous and dogmatic.
   
   
   
   "@TKDB Freedom of speech is still freedom of speech, and if I want to use my freedom of speech to tell you that religions are dumb, I can do that to my hearts content."
   
   
   
   "@TKDB In case you haven't noticed, this is a debate website.
   
   Not a "lets all agree and reaffirm our own beliefs echo chamber safe space."
   
   You really were dropped on your head as a child weren't you?
   
   Ironically, I expect no less from you.
   
   Grow up and learn to deal with differing opinions instead of crying about it. If you want to be in a Christian echo chamber, go hang out with Rickey or something, or find a Christian forum."
   
   
   And more of the same:
   
   "@TKDB You leave me no choice. We can't have a discussion if you don't have a point.
   
   Consider this: If I said "Capitalism has raised billions out of poverty"
   
   What would that mean in the context of this discussion? Nothing. While that is certainly true, it has no purpose besides being true.
   
   So when you say "Preaching is still preaching, whether by a Religious individual, or a non Religious individual" You make no point and thus your words are empty, and devoid of purpose or meaning.
   
   Facts do not an argument make." 
   
   Here's the theme of the forum:
   
   

   Is being GOOD good enough to earn God's gift of eternal Life?

Man judges himself every day with more bad than good.

Near global Terrorism, Abortion, Gun Violence, War, and so on.

If Humanity wants to be good, Humanity needs to learn how to respect itself more, and those around itself more.

Right now, Humanity is extremely under qualified in goodness, but is very qualified, in various ways of death, and violence, and has but itself to blame, it would seem?