How America Got Divorced from Reality?

MayCaesar

It would be very nice if people stopped making sweeping generalisations and blowing things out of proportion. First, there is over 325 million people in the US; there is no "America" as a group of people with similar views in any meaningful way. Second, people believe in conspiracy theories, fallacious economical principles, etc. everywhere and at all times; America is not special in this, nor is the situation in this regard different today than it was at any point in the past (heck, our Founding Fathers were deeply religious and believed, at large, in some things, such as slavery, which we today openly denounce). Third, "divorced from reality" is a bold statement, considering that this country is the main science and technology center in the world; and in order to develop science, you have to be in tune with reality.

America may be slightly more prone than most other countries to spread of overly sceptical beliefs, because historically in this country people have questioned the authority routinely and were weary of accepting the narrative of those historically in power - leading them, for example, to being more willing to give a chance to political newcomers. That can be seen as both a positive and a negative thing, but I would not say that it is an indication of any special relation with reality.
America also largely has defeated cults, other than the mainstream religious groups. In Australia, for example, my friend's grandmother was convinced to join some strange cult claiming that Australia will soon drown in the ocean - such absurd cults are nearly non-existent in the US and are not taken seriously by pretty much anyone, but they exist almost everywhere else. We do have a problem of Christian fundamentalists though, which many other countries do not have (not to this extent, at least), so there is that.

I have lived for extended periods of time in 7 different countries, in very different parts of the world geographically. I have not seen much difference in people's relationship with reality between those countries, although there was a lot of difference in people's interpretation of reality. Japanese generally look at the world very differently from, say, Australians, which does not lead them to see reality differently, but does lead them to different behavioral prescriptions. I have never felt as welcome anywhere else as I did there (and my fascination with Asian cultures helped, obviously), but there were some sides of the Japanese society that I could never accept. It is like this everywhere: you like some things, you dislike other things, but fairly few things are ever objectively right or wrong.

In any case, I prefer to be objective and not let emotions cloud my judgement, so I cannot accept Kurt's statement. He makes a lot of good observations, but he fails to demonstrate how they support his general claim.

RickeyD

@Plaffelvohfen ; Subsequent to policing this dying society for 31-yrs, I explain, in some detail, how America lost touch with reality: Progressive Socialism - Party of Deception and Death: https://rickeyholtsclaw.com/2018/01/26/progressivism-satans-party-of-death/

Plaffelvohfen

@MayCaesar

The problem Andersen points to is not actually the fact that people believe in untruths, but more that it now permeates all strata of the public sphere. And it's not confined to the right by any means.

There is no such thing as alternative facts, but the idea is entertained in the US more than anywhere else and I think no society can expect to endure without a shared reality, built upon actual facts.  

MayCaesar

@Plaffelvohfen

Nobody I have heard of actually believes in alternative facts in the US; the phrase was uttered seriously one single time by a Trump's associate, and that was it, and she obviously misspoke, which is clear from the context, and did not actually mean what she said. This, to my eyes, shows the typical problem of the media space: that it blows out of proportion irrelevant, but well-sounding stories, and does not pay much attention to stories more relevant to the common folks. It is like this everywhere too; in the US the media corporations are just richer, as this is the richest country in the world, and can afford to do it more openly, compensating for it with aggressive advertisement.

People in the US, just like everywhere else, believe in facts; the disagreement is just on what the implications of facts are. There is a problem of people choosing to ignore inconvenient facts and pay extra attention to those facts that support their beliefs, but that is just human nature and is, again, observed in all cultures.

People around the world really like to pay extra attention to what is happening in the US, and Americans play along, too centered on the domestic events to have a good perspective on their place in the world. Yet the US is not that special culture-wise, and if you travel to other developed countries - Canada, the UK, Australia, Japan, Switzerland, etc. - you will see that people everywhere are pretty much the same, the media space is pretty much the same, the general quality of life is pretty much the same, and so on and so on. There are some differences in fine details, but nothing as dramatic as to suggest that some societies are "divorced from reality".

Plaffelvohfen

@MayCaesar

There is a long tradition of delusional thinking in the USA, a long history of grifters and grifted... Thankfully, there was enough enlightened people in 1776 to put some good rules on paper...  Anyway, I think it explains a lot of the current observations, from the political climate to suicide rates, mass shootings to religious fanaticism and everything in between... Maybe I'm just more pessimistic...

MayCaesar

@Plaffelvohfen

There is a long tradition of delusional thinking in humanity in general. People believe in all kinds of illogical things; it is human nature, and a consequence of our unoptimised biological structure. I have not seen anything that would suggest that this tradition is any bigger in the US than anywhere else.

Political climate is heated everywhere at all times, suicides and mass shootings affect a very negligible fraction of the population, and religious fanaticism has been dealt with a long time ago when the Founding Fathers decided to make this nation secular. I do not see these as issues in general, nor are these attributes unique in any way either to the US, or to the recent times in the US.

Again, I think people focus too much on the US and lose perspective on the world in general. People also tend to exaggerate the importance of the current time, always seeing it as special in some way, simply because they live in it - Cicero pointed it out ironically over 2,000 years ago with his immortal "Oh the times, oh the customs!" Virtually every generation at large believes that they live at a terrible time, and that past generations had it better - which is, again, human nature.
Objectively, from virtually any possible point of view, we live in the best times humanity has ever known. The US today is a better place to live than 99.999999% of the rest of the world has been 99.999999% of the human history. We are having it outstandingly good, and anyone from just 50 years ago would lose their mind if they were suddenly transported to the present. But by the same token, we have very high standards and become sensitive to finer and finer issues, which skews our perception of reality.