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People want to be their own gods. Is that good or evil?

Debate Information

People want to be their own gods. Is that good or evil?

 

The real Original Sin, then and today, to most Christians, is based on this quote.

“For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" (Gen. 3:5).

 

Jesus seems to have wanted this to happen, as that would make us his brethren.

 

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught and that Gnostic Christians have embraced.

 

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

  

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

 

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

 

If Jesus wants us to know of good and evil, as a prerequisite to being born again as his brethren, it goes well with Jesus’ prediction as quoted above.

 

That may be why Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan.

 

I am not a literal reader of this myth, but this seems to make sense. It follows then that it makes sense for Adam to ignore Yahweh’s command not to gain an education.

 

Thoughts?

 

Regards

DL

Blastcat



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  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -   edited February 2020
    @GnosticChristian ; Our Creator, Jesus Christ, was fully aware that mankind would relent to Lucifer's enticement and the response to this rebellion was initiated "before the creation/beginning of Time" as per the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


    GnosticChristianBlastcat
  • RickeyD said:
    @GnosticChristian ; Our Creator, Jesus Christ, was fully aware that mankind would relent to Lucifer's enticement and the response to this rebellion was initiated "before the creation/beginning of Time" as per the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    There is no gospel of Jesus and you have no way of knowing what he thought or was aware of. He never put his thought on paper that we know of.

    Now, do you want to discuss why you would subordinate yourself to a genocidal and infanticidal god or not?

    Fill your post with the preachy garbage you put above, which has nothing to do with the O.P., and you will be ignored. 

    Regards
    DL
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian ; The Gospel of Jesus Christ is imprinted on parchment and in Time and in Eternity forever (Matthew 24:35). Nothing you, as an avowed servant of Satan, can do to nullify this truism. Your words of the words of the foolish, the rebellious, the perverse, the lost and dying in sin...you have made yourself "the fool" of Time and Eternity (Psalm 14:1; Romans 1:18-32)....you have made yourself irrelevant in your servitude to your spiritual father, Satan.



    Blastcat
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian ; The Gospel of Jesus Christ is imprinted on parchment and in Time and in Eternity forever (Matthew 24:35). Nothing you, as an avowed servant of Satan, can do to nullify this truism. Your words of the words of the foolish, the rebellious, the perverse, the lost and dying in sin...you have made yourself "the fool" of Time and Eternity (Psalm 14:1; Romans 1:18-32)....you have made yourself irrelevant in your servitude to your spiritual father, Satan.



    Blastcat
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -   edited February 2020
    @GnosticChristian ; The Gospel of Jesus Christ is imprinted on parchment and in Time and in Eternity forever (Matthew 24:35). Nothing you, as an avowed servant of Satan, can do to nullify this truism. Your words are the words of the rebellious, the perverse, the lost and dying in sin...you have made yourself meaningless in Time and Eternity (Psalm 14:1; Romans 1:18-32)....you have made yourself irrelevant in your servitude to your spiritual father, Satan.



    Blastcat
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 3985 Pts   -  
    Whether it's good or bad, we are our own gods (as in masters of our own selves)...
    GnosticChristianZeusAres42
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 5557 Pts   -  
    I think it would be easier to assign a flavor to these things than to assign an absolute moral value to any desires. The hopeless bid for control in a chaotic and uncaring universe is what drives people to seek control, and it is only reasonable then that people would desire to be gods. That is not good or evil any more than it is sweet or salty.
    GnosticChristian
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5971 Pts   -  
    Well, there are only two possibilities: the individual is their own master, or the individual has a master. The former is infinitely preferable to the latter from my perspective: the more freedom and control over their life the individual has, the more opportunities they have to live their life according to their values and desires. When the individual has a master, then that master is going to define their life to a great extent, and their ability to pursue happiness diminishes and becomes uncertain.

    I do not buy the whole "god" concept though; the desire to be a god does not make much sense, given that a god does not exist and cannot exist in principle. Something more specific, such as the desire to be in control of one's life and free from the outside pressure - that is something I can get behind.
    GnosticChristianBlastcat
  • @RickeyD ;

    You have a genocidal and infanticidal satanic god. Not me.

    Stay as you are with your head up your god's a because your moral sense is that of a 5 year old.

    Regards
    DL
  • Whether it's good or bad, we are our own gods (as in masters of our own selves)...
    An adult man is good to see right after a childish boy shows how deficient he is as an apologist.

    Regards
    DL

    Plaffelvohfen
  • I think it would be easier to assign a flavor to these things than to assign an absolute moral value to any desires. The hopeless bid for control in a chaotic and uncaring universe is what drives people to seek control, and it is only reasonable then that people would desire to be gods. That is not good or evil any more than it is sweet or salty.
    Yes and no.

    You are an evolving human creature who should be trying to be the fittest. Right?

    Is the fittest a follower or a leader?

    Go for the sweet as salt burns.

    Regards
    DL

  • MayCaesar said:

     given that a god does not exist and cannot exist in principle. 
    Well put except for this bit above.

    You likely will know why. Your first is a logical fallacy.

    Your last, I do not think is provable either, although I would not mind seeing the thinking behind it before calling it a logical fallacy.

    If at all intelligent, like the rest of what you put, I might learn something. Please expand on this issue.

    Regards
    DL 

  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 5557 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian The fittest can be a follower or a leader.

    Have you ever wondered why the rabbit doesn't evolve a mechanism to fend off the fox? Or why so few fish are poisonous to fend off larger fish? how the antelope doesn't find a way to fend off the lion?

    The reason is that it is that there is an advantage to being prey. The predators feed on the weakest members of a population. thus there is an inherent sort of immunity associated with being prey. There is an evolutionary advantage to it for this reason.

    Those who rise to the top are not always the smartest or the most capable, often they are chosen for their face or charisma. The best of the best will fall into place in the niche for which they are most qualified, and the remaining having no particular skills will end up as leaders.
    GnosticChristian
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteerpiloteer 1577 Pts   -  
    If you look deep into the bible, it is said when the kingdom of heaven is erected, that's not the end of the story. According to the bible we will be in an eternal state of communion with God making us closer to him every moment. We were made from him, we will eventually become a part of him again.   
    GnosticChristian
  • @GnosticChristian The fittest can be a follower or a leader.

    Have you ever wondered why the rabbit doesn't evolve a mechanism to fend off the fox? Or why so few fish are poisonous to fend off larger fish? how the antelope doesn't find a way to fend off the lion?

    The reason is that it is that there is an advantage to being prey. The predators feed on the weakest members of a population. thus there is an inherent sort of immunity associated with being prey. There is an evolutionary advantage to it for this reason.

    Those who rise to the top are not always the smartest or the most capable, often they are chosen for their face or charisma. The best of the best will fall into place in the niche for which they are most qualified, and the remaining having no particular skills will end up as leaders.
    The answer is, it is not a capability that their DNA allows for.

    Your first break the law of the excluded middle.

    If you think any group will pick a weak leader while ignoring the fittest leader, you do not know nature.

    To say that there is an advantage in being prey is too ridiculous for words.

    Regards
    DL 
  • piloteer said:
    If you look deep into the bible, it is said when the kingdom of heaven is erected, that's not the end of the story. According to the bible we will be in an eternal state of communion with God making us closer to him every moment. We were made from him, we will eventually become a part of him again.   

    Do you look forwards to being a genocidal and infanticidal moral monster?

    Do you look forwards to seeing your god kill when he could take the moral high ground and cure?

    Regards
    DL
    piloteer
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 5557 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian Trump is the US president.

    I'll accept my Nobel peace prize now.
    GnosticChristian
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @GnosticChristian Trump is the US president.

    I'll accept my Nobel peace prize now.
    President?

    You mean robber baron President and the new laughing stock of the world.

    I used to like Americans. I wonder what happened to them.

    I feel like Liberty Valance killed John Wayne.

    Regards
    DL

  • piloteerpiloteer 1577 Pts   -   edited February 2020
    @GnosticChristian

    I do not ascribe to anything said in the bible. I am my own God and live for myself alone. I believe I am the only person who truly exists and everybody else is just an illusion, so as far as my God being a "homicidal and infanticidal moral monster", I'm OK with it as long as it is a good source of entertainment because that's the reason this universe was created- for my entertainment.   

    If you do not believe the bible says what is says, prove it. You Gnosti 
  • Happy_KillbotHappy_Killbot 5557 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian The case is in the point. We elected a man as our leader who is neither smart nor competent. He has made the US the laughing stock of democracy, and has possibly done irreparable damage to the US democratic institutions. The fact that we chose him as our leader toughly refutes the idea that the fittest will be the leaders. Often times, the least fit are because people who are too competent stay in their positions and don't move up the social ladder.

    As much as I would love to think that meritocracy is the foundation of our leadership, often that just isn't the case.
    GnosticChristianPlaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • piloteer said:
    @GnosticChristian

    I do not ascribe to anything said in the bible. I am my own God and live for myself alone. I believe I am the only person who truly exists and everybody else is just an illusion, so as far as my God being a "homicidal and infanticidal moral monster", I'm OK with it as long as it is a good source of entertainment because that's the reason this universe was created- for my entertainment.   

    If you do not believe the bible says what is says, prove it. You Gnosti 
    Given your initial position, you are too for me to engage.

    Regards
    DL

  • GnosticChristianGnosticChristian 285 Pts   -   edited February 2020
    @GnosticChristian The case is in the point. We elected a man as our leader who is neither smart nor competent. He has made the US the laughing stock of democracy, and has possibly done irreparable damage to the US democratic institutions. 
    The problem is that too many believe that they actually live in a democracy. We don't. We all live in oligarchies and only resemble democratic archetypes.

    Money has always ruled from behind those we think we elect. We forget that the rich have selected those they want to offer to the public and that is based on their control of the puppet who they have chosen to be elected.

    Most live a lie and don't really care.

    We need better education, but our owners, just as in Eden, do not want to have us educated. An educated population is way to hard to control. 

    Damned slaves love freedom and our owners hide the fact that we are all owned.

    Regards
    DL
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -   edited February 2020
    @Plaffelvohfen ; That too is the lie of your father, Satan. You are not a god though you may think you are.

    Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

    2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”

    4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”  Genesis 3:1-5 (NIV)


    Blastcat
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian ; Your god is the Devil...you will suffer a similar fate as he in Eternity lest you repent.


    Blastcat
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian ; Your god is the Devil...you will suffer a similar fate as he in Eternity lest you repent.


    Blastcat
  • RickeyDRickeyD 953 Pts   -  
    @GnosticChristian ; Your god is the Devil...you will experience a similar fate as he in Eternity lest you repent.


    Blastcat
  • @GnosticChristian

    It always amazes me how some Atheists enjoy ridiculing Christians, calling their faith a myth, a fairly tale,  superstition, etc., and spending so much time trying to disprove it. Ask yourself why? How much time do you spend trying to dispell Jim Jone's cult? I seldom hear people like you creating debates trying to disprove Islam. Why is that?

    The Bible speaks much to the enemies of God spending their time trying to denounce God. By your constant attacks on Christianity, you are actually giving proof to God's words! If he were a fairy tale, why would you spend so much time worrying about it?

    I'm a Christian and spend little time worrying about what Atheists believe. They have a right to their beliefs, as does everyone else in this world.

    The only Atheists I speak out against are the ones trying to ridicule the Christian faith.

    I want you to look in the mirror, and seriously ask yourself why you are so outraged against something you call a myth.

    Then I want to you to imagine a bunch of desert farmers from thousands of years ago, being capable of writing such a book as the Bible. It is an amazing book that has stood the test of time, without being disproven!

    If it were written by men and not enspired by God, you would have thought there would be countless verses speaking to the limited Scientific knowledge of mankind at that time on Earth.
    There were no GOTCHA verses whereby God declares the Earth flat! Why not? If the Bible were written by men, there would be countless verses that would have been 100% dispelled by today's Science.

    How could these men have gotten so lucky as to never writing things that could be easily disproven today?
    The Bible is an amazing book, and FAR ahead of it's time. It's poetic wording, it's depth of detail from the Old Testament Jewish law to the New Testament Christian faith is beyond man's ability back then. With all the Prophecies coming true, many have said it would be a miracle for any men to have written it.

    If you are saying the Bible was written by men, not enspired by God, then it would truly be a miracle. Ask yourself why men would have gone to all that trouble, all that research, spanning many years, all to fool the people into believing a lie. This would have been the biggest hoax ever put over on the world, and one that has stood for thousands of years! It takes more faith to believe it was written by men. For myself, this is the fairytale. Men could have never written such a book.
    Plaffelvohfen
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