Thank's to Trump, we are no longer dependent on Middle Eatern Oil!

Happy_Killbot

That wasn't Trump, Imports were decreasing long before he got into office.



They started going down right about 2008. Weird, wonder who was in office then.

MayCaesar

If you look at the graphs showing the imports to exports ratio, you will notice a harsh turn-around in 2008, the reason behind which should be clear: the economical crisis decreased oil consumption in the US sharply. After that the imports have been dropping at unprecedented rates for a different reason: hydraulic fracturing, a very effective oil drilling technique, has become mainstream in the US, which boosted oil production in Alaska and other oil-heavy states and made the US less dependent on foreign imports.

It is possible that Trump's actions contributed to this positively somehow, but you cannot draw such simplistic connections before some further analysis.

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

If you believe that, then you know absolutely nothing about Obama or the Democrat Party when it comes to their hatred for fossil fuels.

If you want to debate, you must at least show some semblance of honesty. If it were not for the Republicn Party, we would have never become enrgy independent. You must have forgotten how Democrats hated fracking? Or are you saying the Democrats are complete phony liars. 

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable

BELIEVE!?!?!?!?!

WHO NEEDS BELIEF WHEN YOU HAVE DATA!

Facts don't care about your feelings.

@MayCaesar hit the nail on the head.

I hate fracking because there was a gas pad across the road from the house I grew up in, which destroyed land my family had been farming for over a century. At the time, we (me and my friends) used to scream "thanks Obama" ever time they lit off one of them, because it sounds like a jet taking off. If you want to ignorantly claim this is all Trump's responsibility, go ahead. Be my guest, but know that you would still be lying out loud.

Lies, habitual, constant, lies and denial. Yet another example of good Christian morality.

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

It's truly sick how people like you try to twist the truth even after a lifetime of Democrats telling you how much they are against big Oil companies drilling for more oil, fracking, off shore drilling, etc. etc.
I guess according to you, all Democrats are clinical liars.

So if there is nothing you can believe from a Democrat, why would you ever vote for them? When Trump took office, he instantly ended regulations hurting our oil companies abiity to drill for more oil.

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

You employ countless fallacies in each of your comments, while marking everyone else's comments as fallacy. What makes you think that criticising your interpretation of data implies supporting Democrats? Just because you have failed to do a proper data analysis does not mean a view you strongly disagree with suddenly becomes true.

How about responding to people's actual arguments, instead of your childish division of everyone into two major groups and bashing those who happen to be in a different group from you?

We_are_accountable

@MayCaesar

Look in the mirror! You constantly do what you just accused me of. Remember those clump of cells you call an uborn baby, and my showing you sites and facts that clearly describe the body parts of an unborn baby being dismembered and then reassembled. Your reply was a childish barbaric joke.

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable Oil companies deserve to be hurt. They destroy the planet with deadly pollution, all so they can stuff their coffers.

Here is a hard question: Is their anything, any data, anecdotes, or things you witnessed with your own eyes that would make you change your mind about Trump being the reason that we are no longer dependent on foreign oil?

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

"Look in the mirror" in response to criticism is another fallacy, described in a nice post by @ZeusAres42 nearby, called "tu quoque". You cannot even respond to a comment calling you out on your fallacies without a fallacy. Nice!

I reply with jokes quite often, indeed. Your super-serious and somewhat angry narrative needs a bit of joy added to it, otherwise you will drown in your sorrow.

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

Read your first sentence once more, and then ask another ridicuous question. Trump and the GOP are of course the main reason we have become energy independent.

Were it not for the Republican Party keeping the fossil fuel hating Democrat Party at bay, Trump would have had a much harder time accomplishing what he has accomplished.

Plaffelvohfen

@Happy_Killbot

Just a precision, something of a pet peeve of mine in that whole climate change debate, I absolutely agree that Oil Companies deserve to be harshly reined in and pay the complete cost for doing that type of business... But please don't use the "Save the planet" slogan, it's ridiculous in so many ways... The planet doesn't need saving, it's perfectly fine... 

The people are f*cked, but the planet will still be there after we're long gone, it has seen a lot worse...  Save our habitat sure, but the planet? Come on...

Happy_Killbot

@Plaffelvohfen In this context "planet" isn't supposed to mean the celestial clump of rock we sit on, it means the people, ideas, and in general everything we care about on that planet.

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable You didn't answer my question. Here is is again:

Is their anything, any data, anecdotes, or things you witnessed with your own eyes that would make you change your mind about Trump being the reason that we are no longer dependent on foreign oil?

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

They are not "of course the main reason"; that needs to be properly demonstrated, and, as you have seen from the comments, there are other major reasons behind the import-to-export ratio drop, and this drop has been going on since 2008, 9 years before Trump assumed the position at the office.

This is a debate website, not a kindergarten club, and here you are expected to do, at least, some resemblance of proper data analysis before making big causation claims.

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

The sad fact of debating people on the Left, is that they refuse to even admit the obvious, no matter how many years of facts proving it.

Here you are trying to deny Trump and Republicans are responsible for energy independence, and at the same time telling us how fossil fuels are evil and should be seriously curtailed.

How about once in your life admitting the benifits of the Right's support of fossil fuels, with energy independence, even though you believe there will be harm environmental harm in the future.

You are fake news! You can never give credit to something accomplished by Trump or Conservatives, because you know how hard your side fought tooth and nail to stop it. You still try to take credit for it! UNBELIEVABLE!

An honest person would admit the benifits of Trump's accomplishment, no more being dependent on Middle easter nations for oil, etc., and then explain why you would have still rather followed the dictates of dooms day environmentalists.

Nah, you must refute all of Trump's accomplishments no matter how great things are going.

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

I answered! Your sentence in your first line describing your hatred for fossil fuels, is proof to why Democrats never strived for energy independence. They want to shut foosil fuels down!

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable We don't need fossil fuels for energy independence, there is nuclear, which is superior in literally every way, including being less radioactive pound for pound than coal ash.

The fact stands, that the decline in use of foreign oil started long before Trump took office. 

And, you are being quite illogical to assume that because the DNC in general despises oil, that automatically means that they should want foreign dependence. That doesn't make any sense. The two are disconnected.

An honest person would look at the data and see that Obama, not Trump, started the decreased dependence on foreign oil, and Trump just sat down and did nothing, and so can get no responsibility.

In case you were not aware, decreasing dependance on foriegn oil was one of Obama's campaign promises, which he fulfilled.
https://www.mei.edu/publications/obama-and-declining-us-dependence-imported-oil-and-gas

You are being dishonest, lying to yourself because you live in the very same sin your religion claims to be freedom from. If there is any evidence that refutes the usefulness of religion, that is it.

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable

That's not what I am asking, read the question again:

Is their anything, any data, anecdotes, or things you witnessed with your own eyes that would make you change your mind about Trump being the reason that we are no longer dependent on foreign oil?

The question is about you.

Plaffelvohfen

Happy_Killbot said:

@Plaffelvohfen In this context "planet" isn't supposed to mean the celestial clump of rock we sit on, it means the people, ideas, and in general everything we care about on that planet.

My point is why use terminology that is supposed to mean something in a certain context, when we can say "Save our habitat", "Destroying our habitat" which actually means everything you said ( people, ideas, and in general everything we care about on that planet), it is the most accurate description, doesn't need special context and is actually what really needs to be addressed, the perennity of our habitat...

I understand what people mean by Saving the planet, most of us do, but using the term habitat instead of planet, prevents useless semantic arguments and focuses the debate more clearly in my opinion...

AlofRI

We_are_accountable said:

@MayCaesar

Look in the mirror! You constantly do what you just accused me of. Remember those clump of cells you call an uborn baby, and my showing you sites and facts that clearly describe the body parts of an unborn baby being dismembered and then reassembled. Your reply was a childish barbaric joke.

How quickly you shift from destroying the planet to destroying a few cells. Your priorities are a bit screwed up. We could use a decreasing population here on Earth, and, though Obama (actually) reduced our dependence on foreign oil, at the same time he did his best to get away FROM those fossil fuels! He could walk and chew gum at the same time! Now, we're stuck with a guy that does NOTHING but CHEW HIS GUMS and convince very small minds that he's the greatest thing since pussies! (You know, them furry little kitties? ;-) I hate people who abuse "animals"! (Like his son , who kills endangered species for egotistical reasons … like father, like son!) We don't even have to worry about the sins of the father being rendered on the son … he has his OWN! A family of devils being adored by a cult of Christians. I hope other Christians begin to reject this cult …. before it damages the whole religion! (Any further)! 

I suggest you stay away from mirrors … breaking one is bad luck. 

AlofRI

We_are_accountable said:

@MayCaesar

Look in the mirror! You constantly do what you just accused me of. Remember those clump of cells you call an uborn baby, and my showing you sites and facts that clearly describe the body parts of an unborn baby being dismembered and then reassembled. Your reply was a childish barbaric joke.

How quickly you shift from destroying the planet to destroying a few cells. Your priorities are a bit screwed up. We could use a decreasing population here on Earth, and, though Obama (actually) reduced our dependence on foreign oil, at the same time he did his best to get away FROM those fossil fuels! He could walk and chew gum at the same time! Now, we're stuck with a guy that does NOTHING but CHEW HIS GUMS and convince very small minds that he's the greatest thing since pussies! (You know, them furry little kitties? ;-) I hate people who abuse "animals"! (Like his son , who kills endangered species for egotistical reasons … like father, like son!) We don't even have to worry about the sins of the father being rendered on the son … he has his OWN! A family of devils being adored by a cult of Christians. I hope other Christians begin to reject this cult …. before it damages the whole religion! (Any further)! 

I suggest you stay away from mirrors … breaking one is bad luck.