If You've Made Up Your Mind, Who Has Your Vote and Why?

MayCaesar

I made up my mind years ago: Do. Not. Care.

You guys elect whoever you want from the current bunch of clowns. I will just use the system these clowns build to my advantage! If things change for the worse dramatically, I can always relocate: my skills and experience make me employable anywhere except for North Korea. It is you guys who are going to be stuck with the results of your choices, not me.

From my personal perspective, Trump winning is the most desirable (the least undesirable?) option, with Biden being a close second. I also would not terribly mind Bloomberg, but the guy just dropped out, it seems.
Every other candidate is a devil in the flesh, but I do not think either of them has any substantial chance at this point, and even if they win, the system has enough safeguards against their awful proposals. Nothing will change significantly; rest easy.

Happy_Killbot

@Sharky After reading the book "A warning by anonymous" I will not be voting for Trump in 2020, because the state of geopolitics and the oval office has severely eroded and I don't think that Trump actually cares about what happens as long as he gets his way. He is morally bankrupt and devoid of all character. His strategy, as far as I can tell is randomness, and when he achieves success it was in no way deliberate, but rather he just sort of stumbled into it.

Trump has flip-flopped on basically every party and thought, and all of the people who were upholding the executive branch have either left or been fired. With their loss goes all kinds of experience and competence, traded for loyalty to one individual.

Many of his stances are highly authoritarian, which I despise (same with the last 3 presidents) because it goes against many of the libertarian ideals that our nation was founded on.

The US now has one of the worst international trade situations, because China is now mostly doing business with the EU and other countries, and deliberately avoiding doing business with the US, Laying the foundation for the third world war, which the US will most likely lose. Without the economic interdependence between the US and China, this is all but a foregone conclusion.

The US is in a slightly better place than it was several years ago, but much of this was due to actions by previous administrations for which Trump claims victory, such as lowering unemployment or reducing foreign oil dependence. There are many things that might look good on the surface, such as the stock market reaching their highest value ever, but this just hides the fact that the prices are severely overvalued and might collapse at any time, triggering a depression worse than ever.

ZeusAres42

Happy_Killbot said:

@Sharky After reading the book "A warning by anonymous"

Sorry, I couldn't help it lol. Long gone are the days of 2011.

Plaffelvohfen

No More Years!!!

We_are_accountable

@Sharky

Well said, I completely agree. Anyone who denies how great Trump has been for this nation is a dyed in the wool Feminist, LGBT activist or Liberal who hate Conservative ideals.

How long has America been screaming for a politician who is not a corrupt puppet to the powers to be, one who actually does what he says he will do. Trump is the most transparent President of our lifetime. He actually named the Constitutionalist Justices he would appoint. He gave the American people a list of the names he would pick from! That is unheard of for a politician to be so open and honest with the people, BEFORE getting elected!

He is taking on issues pushed down the road for decades by corrupt politicians. Whether it be illegal immigration, descimating ISIS stronholds, China trade, making Nato nations pay their fair share for America's protection, lowering middle class income tax, lowering Corporation tax rates to compete with the world, ending job killing regulations, helping us become energy independent, protecting Pro Life people from funding Planned Parenthood's abortion trade, stopping American tax dollars going to pay for abortions in other nations, building a wall to protect our boarders, getting Mexico to patrol THEIR OWN borders, taking on the Democrat biased fake news media, etc. etc.

He is a breath of fresh air for this nation and has single handedly given the Republican Party a spine! The GOP saw a man who proved you can take on these Political correct extremists, and still win! He's a work horse!

The only people who refuse to admit how great he has been, are those making up the Democrat Party's special interest identity groups. These hypocrites who call him an Authoritarian, are the very people who support LGBT activist groups going into our public schools, indoctrinating our children against the will of the parents! Talk about Authoritarians forcing their Political correctness on all States and public schools. Can you imagine that we now have States forcing their public schools to rewrite their history books to make special mention of Trandsgender and Homosexual figures from the past?
Tell us why our children need to know what Paul revere's sexual orientation might have been, or if John Adams questioned his gender.

These are the Political correct authoritarians who will force everyone to embrace all sexual orientations as natural and normal. The same Big Brother activists who would end the Hyde Amendment! These are the fake news mindsets on the Left who will deny all the great things Trump has achieved. They are closet Socialists who would have had no problem voting for Bernie Sanders over the greatrst president of our lifetime.
They are trying to credit Obama for all Trump's successes. LOL, their deception knows no bounds!

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable What would you do if you found evidence that Trump and Republican conservatives was any or all of the things you despise on the left?

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

I am not like you. You ignore all the extremism and authoritarian Big brother political correctness in the Democrat Party, and would have still voted for a Socialist, all because of your insecurities.

Trump is getting done what I always wanted from my President. He is not all talk like every other politician my entire life. He is nothing like what I despised from the Left. He is the exact opposite of what I despise about the Left. If he were like them, I would not be singing his praises.

I'm not some naive school boy who thinks Trump can walk on water. He has his sins and faults I'm sure. I don't base my support on a person's past or personal moral failures, I base them on the values he hold's dear such as right to life, my freedoms of school choice, religious expression, Guns, etc..

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable Why didn't you answer my question?

Ampersand

Not an American, but I can speak for most of the Western world that we guys have no idea why you have picked Trump besides racism and tribalist politics and are generally worried that he's pulling your country in a fairly fascist direction.

Also it's striking how ill-informed Trump voters are and how much they buy into his propaganda. Just to take a random point that's been mentioned above as an example, Trump didn't make NATO members pay their fair share. NATO agreed in 2014 (e.g. under Obama) that member states would increase defence spending to 2% of GDP by 2024 as most states spent less than that.

Personally if I were a voter I'd go Bernie, but then like a lot of people I already live in a country with universal healthcare so it's insane to me that you guys would purposely vote for the people who are willing for you to die or go bankrupt unnecessarily.

MayCaesar

Trump has actually been pretty decent, especially compared to his two predecessors - but this worship is truly bizarre. Adults singing praises to an old guy endlessly... In America, of all places, a land famous for its people's prejudice against any authority.

Donald is truly a master salesman; I cannot think of many other people who can build a massive personality cult so quickly, and with such a brute force approach at that! Even Putin, professionally trained to do just that, took far more than a couple of years to get millions to fall in love with him.

Imagine if Trump was a Russian president... Those guys would be unstoppable.

We_are_accountable

@Happy_Killbot

I answered your question. If Trump were like the Left, I would not be singing his praises, and would not vote if there was no one better.

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable

Have you looked for any evidence that Trump has done any of the things you condemn on the left?

If so, can you be sure that you are handling everything with the same standard that you treat those who have opinions differing from your own?

If not, why not?

ZeusAres42

Happy_Killbot said:

@We_are_accountable Why didn't you answer my question?

@Happy_Killbot Because he is only interested in preaching to the choir. But I'm guessing you probably already know that.

Happy_Killbot

@ZeusAres42 If I have learned anything from the internet, it is that there is little hope for humanity.

Those who have the loudest voices are the last to listen, and the first to be fools.

ZeusAres42

@Happy_Killbot

I hope that wasn't a dig at me. I know I sometimes act the fool. But I'm usually just joking around.

Happy_Killbot

@ZeusAres42 It wasn't. That's why lately I have just been asking these types questions to show the holes in their reasoning (if we can call it that) because the way I see, it, any evidence that disproves them will be ignored and any differing opinions will be scorned. The only thing left is to poke holes in their idea bucket and ask where all the water is.

Sharky

@Ampersand, Well, it certainly is an honor to have my question answered by someone who can "speak for most of the Western world"! However, your answer doesn't say much for the Western world you purport to represent. It also calls into question your personal definitions of "racism" and "fascist". Real quickly, aside from promising to enforce U.S. law as it's already written, which for some reason appears to qualify as "racism" to leftists, do provide us with examples of Trump's racism. While you're at it, enlighten us with what exactly you believe fascism to be. 

Those of us who voted for Trump know precisely why we did and will do so again in November. There is no ambiguity or confusion. As I said in my opener, many of us came to recognize that the entrenched establishments of both parties- but the Democrats in particular- had for decades colluded to diminish this country's power, influence and treasury. This was at the expense of the American citizenry and to the benefit of the rest of the world, and it was mostly in order to line the pockets of the politicians and create a permanent ruling class in which they and their families were lifelong members. In less than three years, Trump has more than amply demonstrated that the decline we were witnessing for all of those years was completely avoidable and unnecessary. All that was needed was a leader with the guts to stand up to the establishment and the will to implement policies that promise to restore the greatness that built this country in the first place. It's really not a difficult or complicated system to understand or to put in place. Doing so with a "Resistance" (to success??)in place is somewhat harder but Trump is a master strategist and has managed to thwart them at every turn  

The fact that you'd "go with Bernie" tells me a lot. I don't believe the Senator to be a man, notwithstanding the fact that he never held a job until being elected mayor in his '40's. Personally, I believe most leftist politicians know that their policies are doomed to fail but they count on the political and economic ignorance of the underclasses to propel them to power. Once there, they employ coercion, propaganda and oppression to keep them there. It's hard to fathom how anyone anywhere could really conclude that socialism, with it's sordid and complete history of failure, corruption, bloodshed and misery, is actually a viable and desirable system to replace the capitalism that has created the wealthiest, most advanced civilizations in world history. You tout universal healthcare as if it's the catch-all, be-all, end-all issue to sell socialism. When I think of my healthcare being dictated and administered by an incompetent, corrupt and dishonest government, the two words that leap to mind are, "Hell, no!"

"The poor" in this country live pretty well and they receive lots of public assistance, including health care. All the talk of the poor dying and going bankrupt due to the lack of socialized medicine is simple-minded leftist propaganda. If our health care system sucked so bad, sick people from all over the world wouldn't flock here for treatment. Similarly, if this was such a hotbed of untamed racism, black and brown people from all over the world wouldn't be clamoring to move here. You should get a handle on all of that disinformation you receive.   

SkepticalOne

@Sharky

Ampersand

@Sharky

If you think that the views I've presented aren't representative of the rest of the Western world, then that's down to your own lack of knowledge. Polling consistently finds that he is very unpopular in western countries with only a couple of exceptions (notable Israel). Here in the UK for instance he has a net popularity of negative 48% according to YouGov polling. Pew finds "Most Europeans and Latin Americans have little confidence in the U.S. president to do the right thing regarding world affairs. This includes only 13% of adults in Germany and 8% in Mexico" and "In key EU countries, people express little confidence in Trump. Views of U.S. presidents have changed dramatically since Pew Research Center began asking about this nearly 20 years ago. In Germany, the UK, France and Spain, attitudes toward the U.S. president moved downward during the George W. Bush era, surged in the Obama era and fell again with the election of Trump."

You can argue that other countries opinions don't matter or that they're just opinions don't in and of themselves matter, but the idea that my criticisms of trump aren't representative of the rest of the Western World's opinion of him is inarguable and you have conceded it's relevance by bringing up that you support Trump due to supposedly increasing the USA's influence, when in fact other world leaders laugh at him and find him a clown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFwD5ugYS0

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/04/footage-appears-to-show-world-leaders-joking-about-trump-at-nato-summit

For Trump's racism, there isn't really any argument people can bring to defend Trump. racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." Let's take a fairly low key example, like where Trump said a Judge was incapable and biased because of having "mexican heritage". That's a textbook definition of racism, judging someoen by their skin colour rather than the content of their character and their actual ability.

Of course, that's the shallow end of his racism and there's no reason not to jump straight to the fact that Trump has literally tried to have innocent black people killed or how he ran businesses that specifically discriminated against black people are were found guilty of doing so in court.

As for fascism, my definition (the precise definition is debated amongst experts) is a nationalist political stance focused not just on the country but on a specific racial/ethnic group, populaism based on resistance to some 'other', the promotion of violence and strength as righteous and positive when conducted to strengthen the nation state and ruling body.

It seems overall you're a pretty low information voter and if anything seem brainwashed. I mean you say Sanders has never had a job, presumably because some random image on facebook told you so, but if you'd spent 5 seconds googling it you could have found out that's a lie and he's in fact worked as "an aide at a psychiatric hospital, a freelance writer, a preschool teacher and a carpenter." So if you're unable to get even basic facts right, why should anyone possibly believe your claims about some imaginary bipartisan government conspiracy? I mean your random conspiracy theory is absurd even on face value.

Even the parts of your post which aren't conspiracy theories are just random claims backed up by nothing but your own biased opinion. Let's take your claim that "All the talk of the poor dying and going bankrupt due to the lack of socialized medicine is simple-minded leftist propaganda. If our health care system sucked so bad, sick people from all over the world wouldn't flock here for treatment." Now even at face value, your claim doesn't make sense. The problem with the American healthcare system as raised by "leftists" is that there are massive health discrepancies between the rich and the poor. No-one is saying that Jeff Bezos and Bill gates aren't able to get good healthcare in the USA, the issue is all the people that are barely getting by on minimum wage jobs or looking for work, etc. So with this in mind, you would expect the USA's healthcare system to be bad overall and in need of reform while also attracting rich patients from abroad who can pay for treatments unavailable to the average american. Your objection is therefore not only irrelevant but shows you don't even understand the issue.

To actually find out whether the US healthcare system is bad or not you need to look at the evidence, which consistently shows results along the line of (https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/)  - "The U.S. health care system falls short, failing to deliver indicated services reliably to all who could benefit. 3 In particular, poor access to primary care has contributed to inadequate prevention and management of chronic diseases, delayed diagnoses, incomplete adherence to treatments, wasteful overuse of drugs and technologies, and coordination and safety problems.

I mean the US healthcare system is so unafforable that businesses are literally finding it cheaper to fly people to Mexico to pick up medicine!

Dee

@Sharky

***** "The poor" in this country live pretty well and they receive lots of public assistance, including health care.

What a pile of 41 million Americans suffer food poverty , the police in the US can remove a tenant from a rented property at gunpoint in certain states if they are a week late with rent , field hospitals a thing thats only seen in war torn countries are set up in piss poor states like Virginia to treat the sick.
Millions of Americans cannot afford heathcare or higher education in the U S because the fees are the most expensive in the world and Trumps solution ......cut back on food stamps 

 ****All the talk of the poor dying and going bankrupt due to the lack of socialized medicine is simple-minded leftist propaganda. 

Of course it is hey maybe it’s a commie plot?

***If our health care system sucked so bad, sick people from all over the world wouldn't flock here for treatment. 

Right so Europeans are flocking to the U S to pay the dearest health costs in the world oooooookay ......

*****Similarly, if this was such a hotbed of untamed racism, black and brown people from all over the world wouldn't be clamoring to move here. You should get a handle on all of that disinformation you receive.   

You mean like piss poor Mexicans who are clamoring to get in? BTW Trump is mostly detested outside the U S and seen as a big mouthed ignorant buffoon who is comedy gold 

TKDB

I'm Independent.

And we have the Right side of the political aisle making their campaign speeches, that panders to their followers.

And we have the Left side of the political aisle making their campaign speeches, that panders to their followers.

So the pro Gun crowd is pandered to.

The pro Abortion crowd is pandered to.

The pro Illegal immigrant crowd is pandered to.

The pro Marijuana crowd is pandered to.

The pro Criminal and Offender crowd is pandered to.

The Tax the Rich crowd is being pandered to.

Those U.S. citizens, who like the funded taxpayer handouts, are being pandered to.

I support whoever is the most PRO PUBLIC oriented political representative.

"If You've Made Up Your Mind, Who Has Your Vote and Why?"

Sharky

@Ampersand Well, your response doesn't surprise me. Of course foreigners are going to have a negative view of Trump. No one ever expects welfare recipients to like the people responsible for derailing their gravy train. And, as I expected, your understanding of racism and fascism is the same old politicized garbage cobbled together by leftist governments and media which is then regurgitated by people like yourself. You and your socialist brethren have been brainwashed and trained into government dependency. You're desperate to cling to any tactic which will preserve the power of leftist politicians to continue handing out subsistence-level government largesse, even when it's abundantly clear that it diminishes your country year after year. One thing I've learned over many years is that arguing with leftists is pointless. They abhor the truth, they are impervious to facts and they have a treasure trove of fake news and polling provided by the leftist lapdog media to "prove" their points. You can have your socialism; I'll keep my freedom. Thanks. 

MayCaesar

@Sharky

But did you guys not say, back during the election-2016, that Trump would restore the respect for the US in the world? It seems that he has done the opposite, whether other countries' reactions are justified or not.

Socialists/communists are completely deluded, supporting monsters like Sanders, but you guys routinely ignoring facts and prescribing magical powers to your president-elect are not helping expose their insanity. If anything, you cause more and more people to start taking socialism seriously, because that is the most obvious ideology opposing to Trump's views.
Acknowledging the countless Trump's faults, broken promises and stance-flipping would go a long way in restoring people's respect for America and the values it stands for, values that are absolutely incompatible with socialism, fascism and other totalitarian ideologies. Otherwise we will keep descending into hardcore statism, with different brands of authoritarians fighting for power.

Ampersand

@Sharky

Do you not look at your post and see how you're a fanatic stuck in a bubble of self-perpetuating opinion?

Just compare my previous post to your ones. i actually provide evidence for my reasons and explain the rationale behind my thinking.You just make loads of simplistic statements with 0 actual evidence. You're like a child screaming "No, my dad is the strongest" over and over and over again and just not understanding why no-one believes you no matter how hard you scream.