Is Religion a Mental Illness?

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Religion Is Sometimes A Positive Force

Religion is practiced by billions of people worldwide and provides meaning and purpose in life for many.

Barnardot

@JulesKorngold ;Religion is practiced by billions of people worldwide and provides meaning and purpose in life for many.

That doesnt mean that they dont have a mental illnes though does it.

21CenturyIconoclast

@JulesKorngold

YOUR QUOTE OF ALLEGED MEANING FOR PSEUDO-CHRISTIANS: "Religion is practiced by billions of people worldwide and provides meaning and purpose in life for many."

Yes, but at what expense in where these weak mental state pseudo-christian fools try to get their people upon school boards, where they want prayer in schools, where they want to get upon city councils, and in government, where they want their primitive Bronze and Iron Age religion as part of the masses, where they don't know their JUDEO-Christian Bibles anymore than the Bible dumbfounded Just_sayin, FACTDENIER and RICKEYHOLTSCLAW!

Keep their comical religion of Christianity at home and in their MANY DIVISIONS of churches, where they can masturbate their feeble minds in worshiping and praying to their outright serial killer Jesus as their god!

Image: https://www.debateisland.com/uploads/editor/a6/l2ft5ligfsah.jpg

Dreamer

@Swolliw

Mental illness and religion are linked, but how exactly I am not sure. Seems so sporadic. I prefer to think of religion more of a conspiracy thinking deliberately spread instead of a mind virus or mental illness. I don't think people who believe in dragons for example are mentally ill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_trauma_syndrome

Barnardot

@Dreamer ;I don't think people who believe in dragons for example are mentally ill.

Well I reckon that if some one goes a round talking about dragons then he must be a bit cuckoo up stairs just the same as if some one believes there an invisible master who lives all over the place.

Because this was all about delusion being a mental illness and weather you believe in dragons or Gods you are deluded.

And even if you argue that delusion isnt a mental illness you have to question the mental state of some one who believes in dragons or Gods. Sure every one has delusions to a certain degree. But people who believe that there are dragons or Gods if you analize them a bit deeper then you will proberly find any number of psycho issues going on and yes there well and truly in to Loony Toons territory.

JurisJames

@Swolliw Your own definition of delusion says that it is a "symptom" of a mental disorder. So to answer your question, no. Religion is not a mental illness.
Symptoms are characteristics that are independent in existence, and can exist without mental illness, or because of it.

On a less technical note:
I feel like this question is rooted in spite.
Religious people are different. Many are aware that they cannot prove their beliefs. They realize that their beliefs have no authority in truth until proven.
That doesn't mean they do not have a right to believe it or that they are irrational. Some are, no doubt. But it's not a given.
Many crazy ideas turn out to be true, and just because we don't understand something doesn't mean it is not true. A true atheist would understand that's how scientific method works.

So unless you can prove God(s) doesn't exist, (you cannot) you should be a little respectful of peoples' ideas. Because people don't require a burden of proof to believe things, but only if they forcefully push it on other people as definite truth.
People thought electricity was crazy at some point. Wireless phones. etc. Magic is potentially science we don't understand yet.
I find it funny how the same people who take the more arrogant approach are the ones who will start rambling about alternate dimensions, despite no evidence of that.

elijah44

I think that religion is faith and hope. Though I’m an atheist I don’t think it’s delusion.

xlJ_dolphin_473

why do we cling to to relidgin?

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Clinging To Religion

@xlJ_dolphin_473
From the Gemini chatbot:

People find meaning and comfort in religion for a variety of reasons. Here are some of the most common:

Existential Questions: Religion can offer answers to big questions about life, death, and our place in the universe. It can provide a sense of purpose and comfort in the face of the unknown.
Community and Belonging: Religion can create a strong sense of community and belonging. Religious groups often provide social support, shared values, and a network of people to rely on.
Morality and Ethics: Many religions provide a moral compass, and guiding principles for how to live a good life. This can be especially helpful for people who are grappling with difficult choices.
Hope and Comfort: Religion can offer hope and comfort in times of difficulty. Belief in a higher power can provide strength and solace when facing challenges.
Upbringing and Tradition: For many people, religion is a core part of their upbringing and cultural tradition. It can be deeply ingrained in their identity and sense of self.

It's important to note that these are just some of the reasons why people find religion important. Ultimately, it's a very personal decision.

Here are some additional points to consider:

Psychological factors: Studies suggest that some personality types are more likely to be religious than others. People who are high in neuroticism (prone to anxiety) or low in agreeableness (more individualistic) may be more drawn to religion.
Cultural factors: Religion is often deeply embedded in cultures. Social pressure or a desire to conform to cultural norms can play a role in why people adhere to a particular religion.

Religion is a complex phenomenon with many contributing factors. Understanding these reasons can help us have more respectful conversations about faith, even if we don't share the same beliefs.

Barnardot

@xlJ_dolphin_473 ;why do we cling to to relidgin?

Its all about the culture which is why I reckon that more than 80 % of people who say there religious couldnt give a stuff about believing in God. They just like to go with the cultural flow and keep all there relatives happy and go to parties where they chop off the end of the doolies of 13 year old kids. But any way its all about the food and socializing. I know heaps of Muslims and there Ramadan feasts are pretty awe some.

And then theres the practical aspect of religion. When I was a teen ager we would zoom in on all the Christian chicks because we knew that they were uber dum and impressionable.

Barnardot

@elijah44 ;I think that religion is faith and hope. Though I’m an atheist I don’t think it’s delusion.

Well the harsh realty is that any one who is deluded doesnt think there deluded. So the fact is your deluded so you should really deal with it and stop being so dum and naive.

21CenturyIconoclast

@JurisJames

JurisJames,

YOUR QUOTE IN SAYING PSEUDO-CHRISTIANS ARE NOT MENTALLY DISTURBED: "Your own definition of delusion says that it is a "symptom" of a mental disorder. So to answer your question, no. Religion is not a mental
illness."https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/178031/#Comment_178031

Since the pseudo-christian has to believe in every word of their JUDEO-Christian bible because it was godly inspired (1 Thessalonians 2:13 ), then to your erroneous way of thinking, these pseudo-christians are not deluded when they have to accept the following verses from said bible?!!!

1. TALKING DONKEY: "….. then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?" Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now." (Numbers 22:21-29)

2. A TALKING BURNING BUSH: "Now Moses was keeping the flock of his father-in-law, Jethro, the priest of Midian, and he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” ..." (Exodus 3:1-22)

3. JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS TO MURDER A WIFE THAT IS NOT A VIRGIN UPON MARRIAGE: “If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

4. JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS SAY TO MURDER HOMOSEXUALS: “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” (Leviticus 20:13)

5. JESUS SAYS TO FOLLOW HIS WORD AS SHOWN ABOVE, PERIOD!: Jesus replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:28)

“EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5). Heads up, EVERY WORD of Jesus as god are FLAWLESS, therefore the above verse examples are to be followed by DELUSIONAL pseudo-christians! GET IT? HUH?

The above 5 instances are ONLY A FEW OF MANY very disturbing bible verses that pseudo-christians are to follow in the name of Jesus as their god in the 21st century! Therefore, do you want to take back your erroneous and Bible uneducated notion that pseudo-christians are not delusional under these drastic circumstances that they have to follow?! You don’t want to be as BIBLE STU-PID as Factfinder, RickeyHoltsclaw, and just_sayin, do you?!

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Barnardot

@21CenturyIconoclast ;The above 5 instances are ONLY A FEW OF MANY very disturbing bible verses that pseudo-christians are to follow in the name of Jesus as their god

Well weather they are pseudo Christians or the type of Wally Christian that you say you are your all totally loony tunes material. In fact since you spewed it up your version of Religion is so extreme and off the planet that I reckon that if you do pluck up the courage to see a shrink about your condition he is going to charge you at least double his usual fee. So, that should discourage you from seeing a shrink wont it?

So your off the hook again and you can just keep on being the total loony that you are spouting your offensive crap wondering why people give you funny looks every day.

21CenturyIconoclast

@Barnardot

HEADS UP! Do you deny the following verses AGAIN from the inspired words of the serial killer Jesus that the pseudo-christian has to accept and follow? Huh?

1. TALKING DONKEY: "….. then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?" Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now." (Numbers 22:21-29)

2. A TALKING BURNING BUSH: "Now Moses was keeping the flock of his father-in-law, Jethro, the priest of Midian, and he led his flock to the west side of the wilderness and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush. He looked, and behold, the bush was burning, yet it was not consumed. And Moses said, “I will turn aside to see this great sight, why the bush is not burned.” When the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” Then he said, “Do not come near; take your sandals off your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” ..." (Exodus 3:1-22)

3. JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS TO MURDER A WIFE THAT IS NOT A VIRGIN UPON MARRIAGE: “If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

4. JESUS’ INSPIRED WORDS SAY TO MURDER HOMOSEXUALS: “If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” (Leviticus 20:13)

5. JESUS SAYS TO FOLLOW HIS WORD AS SHOWN ABOVE, PERIOD!: Jesus replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:28)

BARNADOT, to save you from even further embarrassment in front of the membership, PLEASE, learn "Reading Comprehension Skills" before you "TRY" to address another post within this Religion Forum!!!! For your convenience here is a link for you to join a class that you blatantly need: https://outschool.com/online-classes/reading-comprehension

NEXT DUMBFOUNDED MEMBER LIKE ..... "BARNADOT" ... THAT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS DELUSIONAL FOR CHRISTIANS TO ACCEPT THEIR PRIMITIVE BIBLE AS SHOWN ABOVE, WILL BE .....?

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Barnardot

@21CenturyIconoclast ;Do you deny the following verses AGAIN from the inspired words of the serial killer Jesus that the pseudo-christian has to accept and follow? Huh?

Yep that sure is loony toons material all right. I challenge you to go to your local mall and shout out that ultra wired crap. I bet that within minutes the emergency services will be there and stick a hpodermic in you then transport you a way to the nearest Funny Farm. Preferably one with a real high barb wire fence.

And heres a heads up for you. Pretty well every one knows that some one who writes in bold and capitals and punctuation marks has some thing seriously wrong exploding away in the top level.

Man you are seriously ill.

21CenturyIconoclast

@Barnardot

The BOLD STATEMENTS are "headers" for the most part, therefore learn the English Language to save yourself further embarrassment! We realize that you presence within this Religion Forum is for you to continue to embarrass yourself in not knowing ANYTHING about Religion, or the primitive Bible! Where you are just "flotsam" and truly not needed at all in this forum!

You have ADMITTED that you can't understand my post in question, so why do you continue to embarrass yourself in taking this FACT away with your feeble child-like behavior as shown? WHY? Do you like to be made the FOOL?

Have you signed up for the online grade-school Reading Comprehension Class yet, so as not to make you the continued fool of this forum because you don't understand simple posts? Obviously not! Therefore, here is the link again: https://outschool.com/online-classes/reading-comprehension

NEXT MEMBER LIKE ... "BARNADOT"... THAT IS DUMBFOUNDED OF THE REASON THEY IS HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, WILL BE ......?

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Barnardot

@21CenturyIconoclast ;The BOLD STATEMENTS are "headers" for the most part,

No there not and no body else here does it nor on any other web site unless they are being extreme and or have an anger management problem. You are mentally ill and it shows. Lame excuses to try and justify your extremism fools no one and certainly wont help you. See a shrink.

21CenturyIconoclast

@Barnardot

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh, when you can't comprehend my posts, whereas I am sure under the same conditions, you couldn't even understand the directions on a "Pop Tart" package in the morning! LOL!

You're an embarrassment to this Religion Forum, and your lack of mental capabilities to realize this fact is sorrowful on your part. Have the pseudo-christians pray for you to help you realize this FACT, where in turn, someday you can actually enter a discussion for a change instead of making a fool of yourself because you can't!

Is there a member than can help BARNARDOT find the appropriate doctor for her embarrassing condition as described? Thank you.

.

Barnardot

@21CenturyIconoclast ;Is there a member than can help BARNARDOT find the appropriate doctor for her embarrassing condition as described? Thank you.

Nah you see your still not getting it. I'm not joking a round here. I really mean it and I'm serious. Your so gonzoed in the head its not funny and the problem is that letting total nits like you out in to the community is a big social problem and I bet that the people who live in your neighborhood are concerned for there own safety.

21CenturyIconoclast

@Barnardot

Shhhhhhhhhh, you have already made yourself the Bible FOOL in not being able to address this link, and remain intelligent looking in the aftermath: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/178278/#Comment_178278

How can you even type when you are in this Religion Forum making a Bible inept fool of yourself with all that egg upon your face for being so BIBLE ? LOL!

Image: https://www.debateisland.com/uploads/editor/0x/dmgygsiiii3c.jpeg

NEXT?

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RickeyHoltsclaw

@Swolliw ; Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness.

Image: https://debateisland.com/uploads/editor/7j/gsn4cak2eyb9.gif

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Swolliw ; Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness.

Wow, you atheist now ricky?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

Image: https://debateisland.com/uploads/editor/e7/dfnyaxi6npu5.jpeg

just_sayin

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

So true. So true.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

You said "Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness." Don't blame me if I thought you were being honest with yourself for a change.

But I see you're not. Still have to create a strawman to reinforce your waning faith I see. You don't know how the universe got here and no one believes there was nothing and it exploded. But I get it, if your god elf did know your faith was fleeting you'd burn in hell.

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

You said "Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness." Don't blame me if I thought you were being honest with yourself for a change.

But I see you're not. Still have to create a strawman to reinforce your waning faith I see. You don't know how the universe got here and no one believes there was nothing and it exploded. But I get it, if your god elf did know your faith was fleeting you'd burn in hell.

Actually, there is a very popular zero energy universe theory popularized by Stephen Hawking and later Lawrence Krauss. Krauss wrote a book on it 'A Universe from Nothing' about it. It is a theory that is pretty close to 'nothing'. And the 'exploding' would be the big bang. Of course the math is way off for it, but hey, faith claims aren't worried about math and science anyway. And it takes great faith to believe a universe came from 'nothing'.

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

You said "Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness." Don't blame me if I thought you were being honest with yourself for a change.

But I see you're not. Still have to create a strawman to reinforce your waning faith I see. You don't know how the universe got here and no one believes there was nothing and it exploded. But I get it, if your god elf did know your faith was fleeting you'd burn in hell.

Actually, there is a very popular zero energy universe theory popularized by Stephen Hawking and later Lawrence Krauss. Krauss wrote a book on it 'A Universe from Nothing' about it. It is a theory that is pretty close to 'nothing'. And the 'exploding' would be the big bang. Of course the math is way off for it, but hey, faith claims aren't worried about math and science anyway. And it takes great faith to believe a universe came from 'nothing'.

Yes and if you read that book you'd know what Krauss means by 'nothing' as it's more complicated than the laymen's use of the word. For example physics has learned that what was thought to be nothing in space has weight to it, therefore something. Heck who knows? If you listen to Krauss we could be on the verge of discovering god dna LOL. Well, I thought of that but I like how he explains zero energy...

https://youtu.be/46sKeycH3bE

Putin

No, but you know what is?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I'm just speaking the truth concerning you and your ilk...a horrible and vile and destructive people.

Putin

@RickeyHoltsclaw
I do the same thing regarding Ukrainians every day.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

And you accidently, inadvertently told the truth about yourself?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; No sir...I'm speaking specifically about you and your ilk...you are very stu-pid, arrogant, insolent, people who are destructive, irrational....debased, immoral, an embarrassment to all that is good, decent, holy, sustainable. Most deserving of Hell.

Image: https://debateisland.com/uploads/editor/6c/lbyawtmbx74b.jpg

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; No sir...I'm speaking specifically about you and your ilk...you are very stu-pid, arrogant, insolent, people who are destructive, irrational....debased, immoral, an embarrassment to all that is good, decent, holy, sustainable. Most deserving of Hell.

And yet you have doubt. You're destined for hell.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; No sir...I'm speaking specifically about you and your ilk...you are very stu-pid, arrogant, insolent, people who are destructive, irrational....debased, immoral, an embarrassment to all that is good, decent, holy, sustainable. Most deserving of Hell.

And yet you have doubt. You're destined for hell.

@Factfinder ; we will see....

Image: https://debateisland.com/uploads/editor/z4/1fotd80amjdw.jpg

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

You said "Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness." Don't blame me if I thought you were being honest with yourself for a change.

But I see you're not. Still have to create a strawman to reinforce your waning faith I see. You don't know how the universe got here and no one believes there was nothing and it exploded. But I get it, if your god elf did know your faith was fleeting you'd burn in hell.

Actually, there is a very popular zero energy universe theory popularized by Stephen Hawking and later Lawrence Krauss. Krauss wrote a book on it 'A Universe from Nothing' about it. It is a theory that is pretty close to 'nothing'. And the 'exploding' would be the big bang. Of course the math is way off for it, but hey, faith claims aren't worried about math and science anyway. And it takes great faith to believe a universe came from 'nothing'.

Yes and if you read that book you'd know what Krauss means by 'nothing' as it's more complicated than the laymen's use of the word. For example physics has learned that what was thought to be nothing in space has weight to it, therefore something. Heck who knows? If you listen to Krauss we could be on the verge of discovering god dna LOL. Well, I thought of that but I like how he explains zero energy...

https://youtu.be/46sKeycH3bE

Not really. Krauss and Hawking proposed that gravity, or something like it, was like negative energy that cancels out matter/energy. Space may have 'gravity' in it though. Dark matter and dark energy are said to make up 96% of the universe, but no one has found any of it yet.

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

You said "Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness." Don't blame me if I thought you were being honest with yourself for a change.

But I see you're not. Still have to create a strawman to reinforce your waning faith I see. You don't know how the universe got here and no one believes there was nothing and it exploded. But I get it, if your god elf did know your faith was fleeting you'd burn in hell.

Actually, there is a very popular zero energy universe theory popularized by Stephen Hawking and later Lawrence Krauss. Krauss wrote a book on it 'A Universe from Nothing' about it. It is a theory that is pretty close to 'nothing'. And the 'exploding' would be the big bang. Of course the math is way off for it, but hey, faith claims aren't worried about math and science anyway. And it takes great faith to believe a universe came from 'nothing'.

Yes and if you read that book you'd know what Krauss means by 'nothing' as it's more complicated than the laymen's use of the word. For example physics has learned that what was thought to be nothing in space has weight to it, therefore something. Heck who knows? If you listen to Krauss we could be on the verge of discovering god dna LOL. Well, I thought of that but I like how he explains zero energy...

https://youtu.be/46sKeycH3bE

Not really. Krauss and Hawking proposed that gravity, or something like it, was like negative energy that cancels out matter/energy. Space may have 'gravity' in it though. Dark matter and dark energy are said to make up 96% of the universe, but no one has found any of it yet.

Did you listen in the video though? The effects of negative energy and matter are detectable, even calculable. And did you notice Krauss laughing at himself cause he wanted his calculations to come up zero but instead they came up .3? Then he explained how we see only around thirty percent of the mass we should see concerning how much energy has been measured in the universe. Being right or wrong isn't the issue, learning what is and what isn't is the issue with science. So your strawman 'tenets of atheism' fails. Of course it should be noted concerning dark matter and energy that it is becoming more and more accepted that our universe behaves as it does largely because they exist. I'd think the race would be on to go from detecting effects to detecting the real thing. But I am just a layman so I could be wrong. In any event I think it deserves more than a "not really".

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I don't possess sufficient faith to be an atheist.

You said "Religion is a sickness of the soul and mental, spiritual, illness." Don't blame me if I thought you were being honest with yourself for a change.

But I see you're not. Still have to create a strawman to reinforce your waning faith I see. You don't know how the universe got here and no one believes there was nothing and it exploded. But I get it, if your god elf did know your faith was fleeting you'd burn in hell.

Actually, there is a very popular zero energy universe theory popularized by Stephen Hawking and later Lawrence Krauss. Krauss wrote a book on it 'A Universe from Nothing' about it. It is a theory that is pretty close to 'nothing'. And the 'exploding' would be the big bang. Of course the math is way off for it, but hey, faith claims aren't worried about math and science anyway. And it takes great faith to believe a universe came from 'nothing'.

Yes and if you read that book you'd know what Krauss means by 'nothing' as it's more complicated than the laymen's use of the word. For example physics has learned that what was thought to be nothing in space has weight to it, therefore something. Heck who knows? If you listen to Krauss we could be on the verge of discovering god dna LOL. Well, I thought of that but I like how he explains zero energy...

https://youtu.be/46sKeycH3bE

Not really. Krauss and Hawking proposed that gravity, or something like it, was like negative energy that cancels out matter/energy. Space may have 'gravity' in it though. Dark matter and dark energy are said to make up 96% of the universe, but no one has found any of it yet.

Did you listen in the video though? The effects of negative energy and matter are detectable, even calculable. And did you notice Krauss laughing at himself cause he wanted his calculations to come up zero but instead they came up .3? Then he explained how we see only around thirty percent of the mass we should see concerning how much energy has been measured in the universe. Being right or wrong isn't the issue, learning what is and what isn't is the issue with science. So your strawman 'tenets of atheism' fails. Of course it should be noted concerning dark matter and energy that it is becoming more and more accepted that our universe behaves as it does largely because they exist. I'd think the race would be on to go from detecting effects to detecting the real thing. But I am just a layman so I could be wrong. In any event I think it deserves more than a "not really".

Krauss' theory is very much dependent on a net zero universe. However, science and math are also problematic to it. As I've stated before in another thread, the amount of time that a 'quantum fluctuation' big enough to bring the universe into existence, can exist, is smaller than the amount of time needed for the fundamental forces of the universe to form and trigger inflation.

Fact, it isn't that there aren't atheistic theories of how the universe came into existence. There certainly are many - at least 2 dozen that I know of. The problem is none of them work. Pointing to a theory that doesn't work, is like claiming you can win the Daytona 500 in a car that won't start. You make some big boasts, as Krauss does, but if it don't work, it don't work.

Factfinder

@just_sayin

Krauss' theory is very much dependent on a net zero universe. However, science and math are also problematic to it. As I've stated before in another thread, the amount of time that a 'quantum fluctuation' big enough to bring the universe into existence, can exist, is smaller than the amount of time needed for the fundamental forces of the universe to form and trigger inflation.

Which is still possible. Anytime you pressurize a submarine or depressurize a space ship to balance out the inside and outside pressure you're creating a point of zero energy. I'm sure he and others will keep searching for the answers, that's what science does. It's not about knowing a thing and then finding evidence, it's about finding enough evidence so we can know a thing. Historically that approach has paid off, debunked a lot of religions based on the ignorance of natural phenomenon consistently observed around us. Wouldn't you agree?

Fact, it isn't that there aren't atheistic theories of how the universe came into existence. There certainly are many - at least 2 dozen that I know of. The problem is none of them work. Pointing to a theory that doesn't work, is like claiming you can win the Daytona 500 in a car that won't start. You make some big boasts, as Krauss does, but if it don't work, it don't work.

Well now first of all your analogy doesn't hold water. As hypothesis and theories do not make absolute claims such as 'winning a race with a car that won't start'. Science would be more inclined to ask does it start, then begin testing it if it did to see if it could win. And they're secular theories that have both atheists and theists working on them. Science and atheism are not synonymous, you do understand that, right?

RickeyHoltsclaw

Religion is a mental and spiritual illness...deception exemplified by Islam-Atheism-Secular Humanism-Catholicism-Hinduism-other cults.

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21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Your Bible DUMBNESS has no bounds AGAIN, as you have shown an image that states: "All cults attempt to either correct Christianity or replace Christianity, and all cults view themselves as the sole voice for god on the Earth, Islam does this as well.

Whereas if you actually READ your primitive Bronze and Iron Age JUDEO-Christian bible, then you admit that your Christianity is a cult, because your Jesus' inspired words say you can CORRECT your Christian CULT as shown in this verse below:

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," (2 Timothy 3:16)

RICKEY, HOW BIBLE DUMB CAN YOU GET IN FRONT OF THE MEMBERSHIP AGAIN???!!! ROFLOL!!!!!

NEXT BIBLE DUMMY LIKE .... "RICKEYHOLTSCLAW" .... THAT LIKES TO REMOVE ONE FOOT TO INSERT THE OTHER IN A BIBLICAL CONTRADICTING MANNER, WILL BE .....?

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21CenturyIconoclast

@RickeyHoltsclaw

RICKEY, THE RUNAWAY FROM JESUS' TRUE WORDS,

Since you had to RUN AWAY back in early March from your JUDEO-Christian Bible’s deplorable verses and narratives, you have a lot of catching up to do with just me alone!

Remember, this Religion Forum is for discussion, and not to RUN away from discussion like you have done as shown in the links below, understood bible fool? HUH?

Jesus is watching you in not defending his primitive faith of Christianity (Hebrews 4:13) where you are to at least "try" to defend it as Jesus states (Titus 1:9)!

BEGIN!!!!!!:

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177595/#Comment_177595

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177452/#Comment_177452

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177678/#Comment_177678

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/176599/#Comment_176599

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/176610/#Comment_176610

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/176652/#Comment_176652

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/176697/#Comment_176697

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/176816/#Comment_176816

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/176946/#Comment_176946

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177302/#Comment_177302

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177306/#Comment_177306

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177372/#Comment_177372

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/177398/#Comment_177398

RICKEY, HAS YOUR CHILDREN AND WIFE VIEWED YOUR BIBLE STUPIDITY WITHIN THIS RELIGION FORUM, AND WHERE THEY ARE AS EMBARRASSED AS YOU ARE BECAUSE OF THIS FACT? YES?

.

Factfinder

Barnardot said:

@21CenturyIconoclast ;Is there a member than can help BARNARDOT find the appropriate doctor for her embarrassing condition as described? Thank you.
Nah you see your still not getting it. I'm not joking a round here. I really mean it and I'm serious. Your so gonzoed in the head its not funny and the problem is that letting total nits like you out in to the community is a big social problem and I bet that the people who live in your neighborhood are concerned for there own safety.

You have a good point about him being loose in society with his mental defects and all. I thought he was just a religious nut pretending to be an atheist who's pretending to have pride in knowing the bible. Turns out he's just a religious nut who doesn't know the bible and as you point out, a danger to society.

MayCaesar

I do not think that religiosity is indicative of any sort of mental impairment. However, in my experience, all religious people have elements of their thinking deeply corrupted, manifesting in extreme suppression of critical thinking. People who talk rationally about other areas of life - such as acknowledging that a car cannot move if it runs out of fuel - suddenly become incredibly obtuse when topics regarding religion or relevant to religion are discussed. They start talking about seeing weird visions and hearing weird voices, which in any other context would be associated with being on LSD or simply mentally insane. They will explain the most regular things with divine intervention when convenient, and argue against it when inconvenient. Basically, they start lying both to themselves and others.

For instance, one guy I have lived with for a bit has a daughter who used to have a serious drug addiction: we are talking about things like heroin here, a really heavy stuff. Her life seemed beyond repair, until one day she met a man who himself had a similar past, but broke free of it - and this man inspired her to change as well throughout their relationship. She gave up all drugs, entered a medical school (I think) and did really well afterwards.
The guy was originally an atheist - however, this experience changed him. He would say, "I have no explanation to this man entering her life at that time, other than him being sent down by something above us". Why? People run into each other and change each other in profound ways naturally all the time. Sometimes for the better, other times for the worse. Clearly his conclusion was not driven by logic. Rather, his love for his daughter overrode his thinking, and the change in her was very special to him - so, like all of us do sometimes, he felt like he was the center of the Universe, and that meant that something in the Universe cared about him far more than anyone on this planet does.

People who become deeply religious start thinking this way about everything. They see patterns where there are coincidences, they see evidence where there is scattered information, they experience visions and hear voices that do not correspond to anything in the real world. One guy around here said that his daughter was a "gift from god"... It is not like he did not see her popping out of his wife's body, not like he had not had sex with her before, not like he is ignorant of the biology of conception. He knows all this - and he does not care. Perhaps that is what religion is at its bottom: not caring about the reality. That perhaps is why religious people are so obsessed with the idea of the afterlife: this reality does not really matter, their fantasies are more important - perhaps, there is another world where their fantasies actually become reality? That is a sweet thought.

This is kind of like the idea of the soulmate. Some people believe that there is another human on this planet who is somehow predestined to be with them. Then, when they finally meet someone who becomes their lifetime partner, they say, "See, this is the person!" The simple fact that, had events played out just slightly differently, they might have never met at all and the person would end up married to someone else, perhaps even a better fit to them - becomes irrelevant in the face of the romantic story of the "only one". It is not about logic at all, but wishful thinking.

Factfinder

In my view religion is all about calming an internal anguish that can emerge when having the cognitive ability of comprehending an impending demise.

Barnardot

@MayCaesar ; However, in my experience, all religious people have elements of their thinking deeply corrupted, manifesting in extreme suppression of critical thinking.

Well if thats not indicative of mental impearment then tell me what is?

21CenturyIconoclast

@Factfinder

FACTDENIER,

Why do you remain upon this Religion Forum making yourself an embarrassment to Atheism because of your BIBLE STU-PIDITY that you bring forth ad infinitum?! You're a complete joke in trying to take on the pseudo-christian with your child-like bible-babble without supporting it biblically, where I have to step in and help you out! LOL!

You and your equally bible fool Barnadot are a great duo in stumbling around this Religion Forum not knowing which way to go when the pseudo-christian brings up yet another godly topic, whereas you two wannabes don't have the sense to feel embarrassed over this FACT! DUH!

Don't worry FACTDENIER, I will still correct your BIBLE STU-PIDITY at your embarrassing expense in front of the membership, you can count on that!

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Factfinder

21CenturyIconoclast said:

@Factfinder

FACTDENIER,

Why do you remain upon this Religion Forum making yourself an embarrassment to Atheism because of your BIBLE STU-PIDITY that you bring forth ad infinitum?! You're a complete joke in trying to take on the pseudo-christian with your child-like bible-babble without supporting it biblically, where I have to step in and help you out! LOL!

You and your equally bible fool Barnadot are a great duo in stumbling around this Religion Forum not knowing which way to go when the pseudo-christian brings up yet another godly topic, whereas you two wannabes don't have the sense to feel embarrassed over this FACT! DUH!

Don't worry FACTDENIER, I will still correct your BIBLE STU-PIDITY at your embarrassing expense in front of the membership, you can count on that!

.

21clownreligious nut,

Oops, promised I wouldn't respond to your admitted stupidity. Pat you on the head, send you on your way.

Barnardot

@Factfinder @21Centuryconoclast ;BIBLE STU-PIDITY

Im no scholar but isnt that what they call an oxymoron?

21CenturyIconoclast

@Factfinder

YOUR ONCE AGAIN PITIFUL RESPONSE TO MY POST SHOWN IN THE LINK BELOW: "Oops, promised I wouldn't respond to your admitted stupidity. Pat you on the head, send you on your way."

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/179122/#Comment_179122

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh .................. no need to further embarrass yourself in front of the membership AGAIN with your grade-school responses to my logical deductions regarding your flustering presence upon this esteemed Religion Forum, where you are giving Atheism a bad name because of your ignorance of the primitive Bronze and Iron Age faith of Christianity.

Again, don't you fret whatsoever, where I will continue to blatantly correct your JUDEO-Christian Bible ineptness, where you still haven't figured it out yet in why one has to be a JEW to be a Christian, where I have given you many "hints" to support this notion! Priceless laughter on your part! LOL!

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MayCaesar

Barnardot said:

@MayCaesar ; However, in my experience, all religious people have elements of their thinking deeply corrupted, manifesting in extreme suppression of critical thinking.
Well if thats not indicative of mental impearment then tell me what is?

Being me. I reject everyone's reality and substitute my own.

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