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Is modern art a joke?

Debate Information

So, new community. Thought I would make the first debate here.

Is modern art a joke?
Pepsiguy
  1. Live Poll

    Is modern art a joke?

    23 votes
    1. Yes
      65.22%
    2. No
      34.78%
I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)



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  • NopeNope 397 Pts   -  
    I find modern art to be one of the better kinds of art. It is nice to look at and does not make sense what ous would you wan't from art. It is also fun to make fun of the simple expensive once. It is nice to look at but who would pay a lot for a couple of circles and squares. So I guess I do consider some of them jokes. But they are still one of my favored kinds of art. : )
  • @Nope ;

    Look at these masterpieces!


    felix gonzalez-torres

    everyone-i-have-ever-slept-with-1963-1995-1995

    I prefer classical art over modern art.
    Meex
    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • NopeNope 397 Pts   -   edited February 2018
    SilverishGoldNova
    I am not that in to art. I do however like patterns which is why I like modern art more than a normal painting. I would not pay for art but patterns can be good to look at. However they are just patterns and lack the meing, symbolism detail and details many paintings have (not that they don't have any).
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    Modern art doesn't just mean installation pieces of people's bedrooms, etc. Picasso's art is classified as modern art. Warhol's work is modern art. Dali's work is modern art. Basquiat's work is modern art. Even van Gogh and Cezanne can be considered modern art - especially if we're dividing all art into modern or classical.

    Also looking at the urls for your links, it looks like you sourced them from: https://list25.com/25-worst-examples-of-modern-art/. If you're specifically googling for the worst examples of modern art you're not going to get a very good view of it. 
    SlanderIsNotDebate1995BaconToesPlaffelvohfen
  • SilverishGoldNovaSilverishGoldNova 1201 Pts   -   edited February 2018
    @Ampersand Some examples of modern art are good, but, then again, I have noticed that alot of it really isn't art. Especially nowadays, anything you want can be art. Empty room? Such art. Blue Canvas? Such art. People running around naked with their fingers in eachothers asses (and I'm not joking)? Such art. 


    Meex
    I am no longer active on DebateIsland or any debate website. Many things I have posted here and on other sites (Such as believing in the flat Earth theory or other conspiracy theories such as those that are about the Las Vegas Shooting or 9/11) do not reflect on my current views. 

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1p6M-VgXHwwdpJarhyQYapBz-kRc6FrgdOLFAd3IfYz8/edit

    https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/18248/#Comment_18248 (Me officially stating that I am no longer a flat-Earther)
  • FredsnephewFredsnephew 361 Pts   -  
    Regarding art, modern or otherwise.  Just as with most other things in society, money is usually the driving force.

    No matter how or lacking in skill a work of art might appear to be, if marketed skilfully there will always be gullible people ready to part with their money.

    That said. We must accept that, both the formulation and appreciation of a work of art are very individual processes.

    I personally have no preferred genre when it comes to art and I will certainly not allow myself to be dictated to,  by current fashion, trend or so called expert opinion.

    I would suggest that, true appreciation of a work of art is defined by our subconscious physiological responses.


    SilverishGoldNovaMajoMILSdlGMGVBaconToes
  • AmpersandAmpersand 858 Pts   -  
    @Ampersand Some examples of modern art are good, but, then again, I have noticed that alot of it really isn't art. Especially nowadays, anything you want can be art. Empty room? Such art. Blue Canvas? Such art. People running around naked with their fingers in eachothers asses (and I'm not joking)? Such art. 


    Art is subjective. To you it isn't art, but presumably to other people, at the very least its creator, it is art and potentially even very fine art.

    But as you agree that some modern art is good then no, modern art is not a joke.
    BaconToesanonymousdebater
  • CDNSmittyCDNSmitty 35 Pts   -  
    Not a joke at all, but a reflection of the times.
    MajoMILSdlGMGVanonymousdebater
  • ethielen18ethielen18 3 Pts   -  
    No, modern art isn't a joke an no art for should be considered so. A definition of art is: the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. Basically saying that it is just something that comes from your imagination and creativity, and you can't really say something is not creative enough.
  • NoahShieldsNoahShields 14 Pts   -  
    I do not believe that modern art is a joke.
    While the term modern art refers to a broad spectrum of the medium, I believe that modern art in itself is a stark contrast to the classical art that we have been taught to praise. Modern art seeks to break the ideals of art that we have been force fed our entire lives. Artist Wassily Kandinski's "On White 2" is able to deliver an aesthetically pleasing selection of simple shapes, bold lines, and color which culminate in one of abstract modern art's greatest masterpieces. To the blind eye, it may seem to be a "bunch of circles and squares," but to a well trained eye it is easy to see the genius in his use of focus and movement. It is a stand-alone piece that assisted in defining a sub-movement in the spectrum of modern art.
    Like "On White 2," most modern art can be easily dismissed by a casual viewer, but to one that delves into the aesthetic and meaning behind the individual pieces, there is a great wealth of knowledge and inspiration that can be gained.
    MajoMILSdlGMGV
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 5967 Pts   -  
    Yes and no. Let me elaborate on this.

    Modern art contains a very high degree of abstraction. If in, say, the Renaissance era you would look at a statue and see immediately what the sculptor wanted to confer through it, because it would look so similar to people you observe in your everyday life - then in the modern art, you have to infer the meaning of the sculpture through abstract elements (such as triangles) having a meaning hidden well through layers and layers of history, rules and conventions.

    As a result, there is a very strong disparity between what people knowledgeable about modern art and those who know much less about it can infer from the art. A person who does not understand modern art could still visit modern art galleries and enjoy certain aspects of that art, such as the calming visual style, or just the general atmosphere in the gallery hall - but they will be oblivious to the meaning the author put into the work of art.

    This, unfortunately, opens a lot of opportunities for scammers to exploit the situation. When a lot of people in modern art galleries do not know what they are looking for, one can randomly wave a brush around for a while and successfully sell it for a complex work of art. Even more so, people knowledgeable about modern art realize that there is a lot of room for improvization, and even the experts can sometimes mistakenly give high value to the artwork that had no substance in its creation. (Remember the picture that was made by an elephant holding a brush in its trunk and that was later sold for a fortune?)

    To summarize the above, modern art is a very complex field, and as any complex field, it is very diverse in its quality and in how people perceive that quality. A lot of what is sold as modern art is, indeed, a joke, a lazy attempt to produce something of value, even if it is not always recognized as such - but there is also a large array of deep, high quality artworks that are not any less an art than the best examples of the classic art.

    MajoMILSdlGMGV
  • I know why you are saying modern art a joke. But, we can generalize one bad art piece of all brilliant modern art ideas. It would be unjust. 
  • TTKDBTTKDB 267 Pts   -  
    @SilverishGoldNova:

    I think that some of the modern art of today, is being called "conceptual art?"

    From Wikipedia: 
    "Conceptual art, sometimes simply called conceptualism, is art in which the concept(s) or idea(s) involved in the work take precedence over traditional aesthetic, technical, and material concerns."

    An individual creates an art piece, like some of the examples you've exhibited, and it's more about a conception over telling a story or with layers of brush strokes, or dots like with pointalism? 

    Or maybe some of the modern pattern art, which I've seen around for a few years now, could be interpreted in a sense, as a probable take on Picasso and his cubism style?
    For example: "Guitar and violin."

    If an individual looks at some art, and becomes visually lost as to what the artist is trying to convey through their individual piece of art, then maybe the art piece was created with to much thought behind it, and not enough expression? 

    I believe that when an individual creates an individual piece of "art' and it's more thought based instead of expression based, you risk the chance of losing the interest of the viewer who's viewing an individuals art piece. 

    An art teacher once said, that when you look at a piece of art, there should be a flow to it, that your eyes should be engaged by the subject of the artwork.

    This is from the Artists network:

    1) A strong focal point.
    2) Layers of color.
    3) Changes in direction.

  • PepsiguyPepsiguy 109 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: It depends:

    If by modern art you mean contemporary art then here's my answer:

    There is very few good art at art museums. The reason is that art standards have have declined so far that the only standard now is just self expression is art. Postmodernism has replaced what is beautiful, inspiring, and profound with the ugly, the new, the different, the pointless, the offensive, the banal, the inept, etc. Examples of works under the standards include:

    * Mona Lisa
    * Birth of Venus
    * Statue of David
    * etc

    Some modern works made under aesthetic relativism include

    * "Comedian" made in 2019, this art work is literally just a banana taped to the wall. It sold for US$120,000.
    * Onement Vi By Barnett Newman, 
    * Jackson Pollack's works
    * Painting On White Background For The Cell Of A Recluse
    * The holy Virgin Mary. An ugly painting made with cow dung
    * The Los Angeles county museum of art just offers us a 340 ton rock. Would be nice if it was sculpted into something

    The truth is that there is actually objective standards that make good art. We may delude ourselves into thinking otherwise but as Ayn Rand said:

    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.”



    source: 
  • BoganBogan 421 Pts   -  
    Art first got kicked of with prehistoric cave paintings, where prehistoric people attempted to depict the reality around them on wall paintings.      By the time people became settled into towns and cities, rulers used art to glorify their personages, and to defame their enemies.   Artists were usually strictly controlled in the way that they depicted art.   The odd looking sideways depiction of the human form in Egyptian art is evidence of that.    Roman emperors too used art to glorify those in power with bronze statues of the emperor placed all over the empire, as a visual symbol of his power and authority.   By the time of the Romans, rich middle and upper class romans used artists to decorate their villas in pleasing scenes, more often than not, it was just what we today would call "pornography."

    During the medieval and Middle Ages in Europe, it was the church who was the primary sponsor of art, and art of the day usually reflected the glory of God.    As we went into the 17th century it was still the church sponsoring art, but once again, rich upper and middle class people became the sponsors of art also.    This was often to decorate the walls of their houses and mansions with pleasing, almost photographic pastoral scenes or other subjects of beauty.   Without photographs, rich people would commonly sponsor portraits of themselves to leave to their ancestors.   

    With the coming of the 18th century, art changed course again.   Some artists were themselves of the middle and upper classes and they were rich enough to dabble in new styles of art that was not really appreciated by either the state, the church, or the rich.     So we get new styles such a cubism, dadaism, and impressionism.     All of these new styles were in some way reflective of the new ideologies being dabbled with by the middle classes.

    By the time of socialism, art went south.    Western artists demanded that the state should foot the bill for artists to live, and so Art became anything the artist wanted.   This was not the case in socialist countries, which ironically was the sort of societies that artists clamored to have instigated in the west.     Once again, artists drew their wages in Socialist countries from the rulers and the Party    But now they were once again dragooned into art (social realism) which depicted the glory of the Party, and pictures which showed just how deliriously happy the populace was under the Party and it's dictator. 

    Modern art is mostly garbage.    Having "artists" paid for by the government to produce anything they want is akin to allowing everybody to work or not work, according to their whims.   Art divorced from commercial success is hardly worth the canvas it is painted on (or just thrown on).       "Artists" in the west are usually supported by various "art grants councils" who's susceptibility to corruption is something they do not want to talk about.    Once again, we see that those artists who's work depicts the glory of wokism seem to be the ones who get the grants.     In Australia, one young female author took advantage of this fact by writing a book about how shocked she was to discover that her father was a Nazi concentration camp guard.   She authored the book under a Ukrainian name when she was in fact an Anglo..    Naturally, she won the award, and then journos did a bit of digging and discovered her real identity.     She was completely non plussed, simply saying that if she had written a book under her Anglo name about her Anglo family, she would never have gotten the award.

    In Sydney, the taxpayers paid for an expensive Museum of Modern Art which nobody bothered to enter.    The museum was were getting around two visitors a day, and they were mostly looking for a public toilet.       Finally the Arts Council petitioned the government to move the Museum to a newly vacated building on Sydney's prestigious Circular Quay.     This greatly aided in attracting tourists from ships tied up at the Circular Quay passenger shipping terminal, but in such a location, you could sell ice creams to eskimos.

    Much modern art is purchased by the governments as nobody in their right minds would want anything so ghastly hanging on the walls of their dining rooms.   Government warehouses are chock a block full of this crap.   Socialism ruins everything.    Modern art is to classical art, as rap "music" is to Beethoven's 9th.
    Pepsiguyirumsohale
  • irumsohaleirumsohale 12 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Subjectivity of Art

    One of the fundamental aspects of art is its subjective nature. What one person may perceive as a joke, another may see as a profound expression of creativity. Modern art challenges traditional notions of aesthetics and invites viewers to interpret and engage with the artwork in their way, leading to diverse and often contrasting interpretations.
  • irumsohaleirumsohale 12 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Pushing Boundaries

    Modern art has been instrumental in pushing the boundaries of artistic expression, challenging conventional norms and provoking thought and discussion. Artists explore new techniques, materials, and concepts, pushing the limits of what art can be and challenging viewers to expand their understanding and appreciation of artistic innovation.
  • irumsohaleirumsohale 12 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Reflection of Society

    Modern art often reflects contemporary society, addressing social, political, and cultural issues in provocative and thought-provoking ways. Artists use their work to confront inequality, injustice, and environmental degradation, sparking conversations and inspiring change.
  • irumsohaleirumsohale 12 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Evolving Definition of Art

    The definition of art is constantly evolving, and what may seem like a joke to some may be seen as groundbreaking innovation by others. Modern art challenges traditional notions of what constitutes art, blurring the lines between different artistic mediums and questioning established hierarchies within the art world.
  • irumsohaleirumsohale 12 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Diversity of Expression

    Modern art encompasses various styles, techniques, and movements, each with unique characteristics and significance. From abstract expressionism to conceptual art, modern artists employ diverse approaches to explore themes of identity, perception, and human experience, offering viewers a rich and varied artistic landscape to explore.
  • irumsohaleirumsohale 12 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Artistic Freedom

    Just as humour is subjective, so too is an artistic expression. Modern artists can experiment, take risks, and express themselves in ways that may challenge or subvert traditional artistic conventions. This freedom allows for exploring new ideas and perspectives, fostering innovation and pushing the boundaries of artistic possibility.
  • irumsohaleirumsohale 12 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Impact and Influence

    Despite criticism and controversy, modern art has profoundly impacted the art world and the broader cultural landscape. Many iconic works of modern art have become enduring symbols of artistic innovation and cultural significance, influencing subsequent generations of artists and shaping the trajectory of art history.
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