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TKDB
Member, joined August 2018



694 Points    17 Badges     76 Debates     3644 Arguments    

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O.D.S.L.: 1310 points | Formal And Formalish Debate Wins: 0/1 | Formal And Formalish Debate Losses: 1/1

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TKDB
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  • Does the Atheist stance align with the United States values?

    @SkepticalOne

    @Dee

    @Plaffelvohfen

    @MayCaesar

    @Happy_Killbot

    https://religionnews.com/2018/10/02/why-atheists-are-not-as-rational-as-some-like-to-think/

    OPINION

    "Why atheists are not as rational as some like to think"


    "Many atheists think that their atheism is the product of rational thinking. They use arguments such as “I don’t believe in God, I believe in science” to explain that evidence and logic, rather than supernatural belief and dogma, underpin their thinking. But just because you believe in evidence-based, scientific research – which is subject to strict checks and procedures – doesn’t mean that your mind works in the same way.

    When you ask atheists about why they became atheists (as I do for a living), they often point to eureka moments when they came to realise that religion simply doesn’t make sense.

    Oddly perhaps, many religious people actually take a similar view of atheism. This comes out when theologians and other theists speculate that it must be rather sad to be an atheist, lacking (as they think atheists do) so much of the philosophical, ethical, mythical and aesthetic fulfilments that religious people have access to – stuck in a cold world of rationality only.

    The science of atheism

    The problem that any rational thinker needs to tackle, though, is that the science increasingly shows that atheists are no more rational than theists. Indeed, atheists are just as susceptible as the next person to “group-think” and other non-rational forms of cognition. For example, religious and nonreligious people alike can end up following charismatic individuals without questioning them. And our minds often prefer righteousness over truth, as the social psychologist Jonathan Haidt has explored.

    Even atheist beliefs themselves have much less to do with rational inquiry than atheists often think. We now know, for example, that nonreligious children of religious parents cast off their beliefs for reasons that have little to do with intellectual reasoning. The latest cognitive research shows that the decisive factor is learning from what parents do rather than from what they say. So if a parent says that they’re Christian, but they’ve fallen out of the habit of doing the things they say should matter – such as praying or going to church – their kids simply don’t buy the idea that religion makes sense.

    This is perfectly rational in a sense, but children aren’t processing this on a cognitive level. Throughout our evolutionary history, humans have often lacked the time to scrutinise and weigh up the evidence – needing to make quick assessments. That means that children to some extent just absorb the crucial information, which in this case is that religious belief doesn’t appear to matter in the way that parents are saying it does.

    Children’s choices often aren’t based on rational thinking. Photo by Anna Nahabed/Shutterstock

    Even older children and adolescents who actually ponder the topic of religion may not be approaching it as independently as they think. Emerging research is demonstrating that atheist parents (and others) pass on their beliefs to their children in a similar way to religious parents – through sharing their culture as much as their arguments.

    Some parents take the view that their children should choose their beliefs for themselves, but what they then do is pass on certain ways of thinking about religion, like the idea that religion is a matter of choice rather than divine truth. It’s not surprising that almost all of these children – 95% – end up “choosing” to be atheist.

    Science versus beliefs

    But are atheists more likely to embrace science than religious people?

    Many belief systems can be more or less closely integrated with scientific knowledge. Some belief systems are openly critical of science, and think it has far too much sway over our lives, while other belief systems are hugely concerned to learn about and respond to scientific knowledge.

    But this difference doesn’t neatly map onto whether you are religious or not. Some Protestant traditions, for example, see rationality or scientific thinking as central to their religious lives. Meanwhile, a new generation of postmodern atheists highlight the limits of human knowledge, and see scientific knowledge as hugely limited, problematic even, especially when it comes to existential and ethical questions. These atheists might, for example, follow thinkers like Charles Baudelaire in the view that true knowledge is only found in artistic expression.

    Science can give us existential fulfillment, too. Photo by Vladimir Pustovit/Creative Commons

    And while many atheists do like to think of themselves as pro science, science and technology itself can sometimes be the basis of religious thinking or beliefs, or something very much like it. For example, the rise of the transhumanist movement, which centres on the belief that humans can and should transcend their current natural state and limitations through the use of technology, is an example of how technological innovation is driving the emergence of new movements that have much in common with religiosity.

    Even for those atheists sceptical of transhumanism, the role of science isn’t only about rationality – it can provide the philosophical, ethical, mythical and aesthetic fulfilments that religious beliefs do for others. The science of the biological world, for example, is much more than a topic of intellectual curiosity – for some atheists, it provides meaning and comfort in much the same way that belief in God can for theists. Psychologists show that belief in science increases in the face of stress and existential anxiety, just as religious beliefs intensify for theists in these situations.

    Clearly, the idea that being atheist is down to rationality alone is starting to look distinctly irrational. But the good news for all concerned is that rationality is overrated. Human ingenuity rests on a lot more than rational thinking. As Haidt says of “the righteous mind”, we are actually “designed to ‘do’ morality” – even if we’re not doing it in the rational way we think we are. The ability to make quick decisions, follow our passions and act on intuition are also important human qualities and crucial for our success.

    It is helpful that we have invented something that, unlike our minds, is rational and evidence-based: science. When we need proper evidence, science can very often provide it – as long as the topic is testable. Importantly, the scientific evidence does not tend to support the view that atheism is about rational thought and theism is about existential fulfilments. The truth is that humans are not like science – none of us get by without irrational action, nor without sources of existential meaning and comfort. Fortunately, though, nobody has to. "

    DeeGrafix
  • Looking to be educated from some, and their views?

    @ZeusAres42

    Do you maybe have an issue with this conversation topic?

    This is in the Science section.

    "Who created Science? God, or Humanity?"


    https://www.age-of-the-sage.org/richard_dawkins/science_vs_religion_quotes.html

    This is a quotation from Richard Dawkins: 

    "Richard Dawkins, in bringing his ten-minute long presentation to an close, summed up his Religion vs Science argument in a few high-flown sentences, describing religion as:-  "

    "a cop-out: a betrayal of the intellect, a betrayal of all that's best about what makes us human, a phony substitute for an explanation, which seems to answer the question until you examine it and realize that it does no such thing.
    Religion in science is not just redundant and irrelevant, its an active and pernicious charlatan. It peddles false explanations, or at least pseudo-explanations, where real explanations could have been offered, and will be offered. Pseudo-explanations that get in the way of the enterprise of discovering real explanations."

    "As the centuries go by religion has less and less room to exist and perform its obscurantist interference with the search for truth.
    In the 21st century its high time, finally, to send it packing".  "


    Is Mr. Dawkins, maybe blurring the lines when it comes to the two separate conversation of God, Religion, and Science, itself? 




    ZeusAres42
  • Is it Okay to Want to Rebel Against Society?

    @piloteer

    "Just know that if you break the law, you may end up in jail, but outside of that, it is your duty as an American citizen to disregard social standards. If you're not an American citizen, it is your duty as an individual to assert your liberty. If you do not demand it, it will be taken from you."    

    https://www.online-paralegal-programs.com/legal-rights/

    YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO STAY OUT OF JAIL

    know-your-rights 

    "KNOWING YOUR RIGHTS

    Amendment IV – The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Whether you are a US citizen or not

    3 LEVELS OF POLICE/CITIZEN ENCOUNTERS

    ● Consensual – casual conversation
    ○ Evidence level required – Zero
    ○ Freedom to leave – yes
    ○ ID required – no
    ○ Legal search – plain sight or consensual
    ○ Example: Officer knocks on door to ask if you saw anything

    ● Investigative Detention- Temporary detainment for further info.
    ○ Evidence level required – Reasonable Articulable Suspicion
    ■ Visible paraphernalia (Ziplocks, rolling papers, pipes)
    ■ Tools for B&E (Crowbar, slim jim, weapons)
    ■ Profiling (Paper tag, DARE/Police decals, College attire, Gangster attire)
    ○ Freedom to leave – no (approx. 15-20 minute max)
    ○ ID required – not in 26 states (exception: you’re a driver)

    ○ Legal search: frisk, plain sight, or consensual
    ○ Example: Officer sees you wearing a ski mask at night.
    ● Arrest – Taken into police custody
    ○ Evidence level required – Probable Cause or warrant
    ○ Freedom to leave – no
    ○ ID required – yes
    ○ Legal search: frisk, plain sight, consensual, or warrant
    ○ Example: Officer catches you breaking and entering

    Best Practices to Exercising Your Rights Safely
    ○ Always be polite, respectful, and keep hands visible
    ■ Reduce Exposure to Suspicion
    ● Crack door/window unless ordered to open fully
    ○ Clarify it’s an order, a request is not an order.
    ● Keep questionable items out of plain sight:
    ○ prescription bottles / medicine
    ○ hookahs
    ○ rolling papers
    ○ measuring scale
    ○ firearms/weapons
    ■ Ask to leave often
    ● Omitting to ask = voluntarily staying
    ■ Ask for cause
    ● Officers must articulate observed suspicions
    ■ If requested to do anything, clarify you will if it’s “an order”
    ■ Record or immediately write down your encounter
    ● **disclaimer: Audio and video recording laws differ state by state
    ■ Report any violations of your rights

    ○ NEVER:
    ■ Lie or give false documents
    ■ Answer questions
    ■ Give permission to a search without fully reading a warrant
    ■ Argue, resist, run, or obstruct– even if your rights are being violated

    ○ Filming your encounter with police:
    ■ You may video and audio record police performing official duties in public.

    ● Officer may NOT:
    ○ Confiscate, demand to view, or delete without a warrant.

    Individual may NOT:
    ■ Interfere with the officers’ duty [ex. “stand back!” do so]
    ■ Physically resist– if officer reaches for your device, do not resist, just report it.

    Tricky Police: Police may legally lie, bluff, and intimidate you.
    ○ Most avoidable arrests occur from trickery and intimidation:
    ■ admission of guilt
    ■ consenting to a search.
    ○ Refusing a search or to answer incriminating questions are not:v
    ■ admissions of guilt
    ■ reasons to detain you
    ○ Miranda Rights are read only in “police custody”
    ■ visual: handcuffs
    ○ Common Police tricks:
    ■ Phrasing:
    ● “Have you had anything to drink tonight?”
    ○ Best response: “Respectfully officer, I don’t have to answer that.”
    ● “Not answering is suspicious, why are you resisting?”
    ○ Best Answer: “I’m not resisting, respectfully, I don’t have to answer anything.”
    ● “If you have nothing to hide, you don’t mind if I look around.”
    ○ Best response: “I’m sorry Officer, but I don’t consent to searches.”
    ● “If you refuse a search, I’ll have to call a K-9 unit.”
    ○ Best response: “Officer, are you detaining me, or am I free to go?”

    Breath Tests to Determine BAC
    ○ Do you HAVE to take it? No, you have the right to refuse.
    ■ Be warned, refusal is an automatic, irreversible suspension of license (in every state)
    ○ Blood tests are more accurate, and require a warrant
    ○ Breathalyzers are tuned to the “avg” person
    ■ False positive factors:
    ● Smaller people
    ● Small lung capacity
    ● Diabetes
    ● Acid Reflux (GERD)
    ● Low-Carb Diet
    ● Inhalers
    ● Fumes (ex. paint, Ethanol gas)
    ● Roadblocks
    ○ DUI – Legality: protection from “imminent public danger”
    ■ Same rules as any other traffic stop

    Border Patrol
    ■ Legal search – Agents may legally search anything without warrant
    ○ Drugs (It’s a Trap!)
    ■ The Supreme Court ruled random checkpoints for finding drugs are unconstitutional.
    ● “We cannot sanction stops justified only by the generalized and ever-present possibility that interrogation and inspection may reveal that any given motorist has committed some crime.”
    ● “Drug Checkpoint in 1 Mile” [sign] is a police trap, do NOT exit.
    ○ (visual of the sign near an exit cops/dogs are at exit, not 1 mile down)
    ○ Pull people over for:
    ■ Illegal U-Turns
    ■ Littering
    ■ Suspiciously exiting "

    BrainSocks
  • Is Donald Trump REALLY that bad?

    @ZeusAres42

    "With that being said I can also see how nonsensical it is to say one supports whoever is in oval office just because they're in the oval office."

    When Obama was in the Oval Office, he apparently, took care of his individual liberal philosophies, while at the same time, he apparently, took care of the interests of his individual constituents, or follower fanbases?

    While the rest of the country, lived through his liberal political experience.

    Did the rest of the country benefit from Obama being the POTUS?

    No, the rest of the country didn't.

    But I support, the Oval Office, out of respect for the United States, as a whole. 

    When Clinton was in the Oval Office, the rest of the country, that wasn't a part of his constituent, or follower fanbase, lived through his liberal political experiences, as well, because of Clinton being Impeached?

    Did the rest of the country benefit from Clinton being the POTUS, during his time in Office?

    No, the rest of the country didn't.

    Like I expressed before, their Presidential Histories, all speak for themselves. 
     

    ZeusAres42
  • White nationalists have declared war on the US!

    Have white nationalists declared war on the US?


    No, they haven't.

    But the various cultures in the U.S., have been shooting, maiming, and hurting each other, and the individuals from other cultures, for years now.

    Drive by shootings, that in some cases, have killed innocent family member, in their own homes.

    Murder, sexual assault, domestic violence, and abuse, murder/suicides, kidnappings, abductions, robberies, muggings, and the other, thousands of crimes, that have been happening, year after year.

    The mass shootings, are another part of the above crimes, as well. 

    There are 400 million guns in the United States, that now outnumber, the 329 million citizens who live in this country.

    And of those 329 million citizens, 900,000 of them roughly are Law Enforcement.

    The real Wars, are the ones against the "Second Amendment, and on the Bill of Rights," that have been used and abused, by those first time offenders, and those criminals, and offenders, who used their guns to kill their innocent victim's with.
    AlofRIjesusisGod777Sharky

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