Is Antifa, pro United States oriented, or is it pro Antifa oriented unto itself?

Sharky

Anyone who doubts or denies that Antifa is a domestic terrorist organization is simply kidding themselves. Through the use of violence, the organization exists to silence anyone who disagrees with them politically. That is practically the definition of terrorism.  

GeoLibCogScientist

Agh, might I ask not to use such an anti-aesthetically-pleasing use of fonts and font sizes?

GeoLibCogScientist

Sharky said:

Anyone who doubts or denies that Antifa is a domestic terrorist organization is simply kidding themselves. Through the use of violence, the organization exists to silence anyone who disagrees with them politically. That is practically the definition of terrorism.  

For me, it's not that I doubt this possibility, I just doubt anyone reporting on it considering how politically divided and biased everyone in the US seems to be. I generally doubt US-based media(I'm American myself, by the way) as a rule of thumb, and believe they are lying, biased, or otherwise over-exaggerating unless otherwise proven. With a group as anti-establishment and anti-right wing as Antifa, I do not at all suspect anyone of the establishment media or right-wing to be reporting it honestly. That said, I don't immediately trust anyone left-wing either. I need to see it for myself. Even videos can be doctored, edited, etc in a way to make the situation look worse than it is. I don't doubt they've used violence, but what's the context of that violence exactly? Often the videos I've seen, in my opinion, haven't provided sufficient information for me to conclude if it was unjustified violence. Of course, you could be someone who thinks all violence is unjustified under all conditions, but that's a different debate we'd have to engage in since I don't believe that myself. 

GeoLibCogScientist

@TKDB
That depends on what you mean by "Pro-United States oriented".  How are you defining this? 

all4actt

Geoibscientist you dont't need to believe the right or left wing media just watch ANTIFA's own documentary.  Another alternative is to litsen to what a former ANTFA member has to say about the organization.

The ANTFA organization are fashist who do not believe in the freedom of speech or the freedom of exchange of ideas.  If you don't agree with them they even say in thier own documentary that violence is used and ok with them.

They clearly prove that their intintions are narffarrious when they show up much as the KKK does with their faces covered.

all4actt

Geoibscientist you dont't need to believe the right or left wing media just watch ANTIFA's own documentary.  Another alternative is to litsen to what a former ANTFA member has to say about the organization.

The ANTFA organization are fashist who do not believe in the freedom of speech or the freedom of exchange of ideas.  If you don't agree with them they even say in thier own documentary that violence is used and ok with them.

They clearly prove that their intintions are narffarrious when they show up much as the KKK does with their faces covered.

TKDB

@GeoLibCogScientist

Antifa, has self created a reputation for its individual cause, by the actions that their members, have educated the overall public with.

Their self created actions speaks for themselves.

Thus the headlines below, that have been created by their efforts?

"Portland’s Antifa Impunity

No one has been charged in the assault on journalist Andy Ngo."

"Portland, Ore., thinks of itself as a tolerant progressive city. Yet four weeks after a left-wing mob severely beat journalist Andy Ngo, there have been no arrests or charges for the assault.

Mr. Ngo was battered on June 29 as he reported on dueling protests. One demonstration included the far-right Proud Boys, and the counterprotest featured leftist groups associated with the extremist Antifa." 

"Far-left Antifa 'working toward a political revolution,' attack victim Andy Ngo tells Laura Ingraham

By Victor Garcia | Fox News"

"A conservative journalist who was the victim of a brutal assault by Antifa protesters last month in Oregon warned Friday that the far-left group aims to "polarize society."

"They're working toward a political revolution," Andy Ngo said on Fox News' "The Ingraham Angle." "They're made up of anarchists and communists and ... these acts of violence and vandalism ... not only target citizens but they're meant to polarize society."

Ngo told host Laura Ingraham he was startled when the protesters in Portland first assaulted him.

"I didn't even know what was going," he said. "It took several hits to my head before I realized, 'Oh, I'm getting beaten up right now,' because I've never been in a fight." 

And their own history, speaks for itself as well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

"The antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] movement is composed of left-wing, autonomous, militant anti-fascist[7] groups and individuals in the United States.[11] The principal feature of antifa groups is their use of direct action,[12] with conflicts occurring both online and in real life.[13] They engage in varied protest tactics, which include digital activism, property damage, physical violence, and harassmentagainst those whom they identify as fascist, racist, or on the far-right.[18]

Activists involved in the movement tend to be anti-capitalists[19] and subscribe to a range of ideologies, typically on the left. They include anarchists, socialists and communists along with some liberalsand social democrats.[26] Their stated focus is on fighting far-right and white supremacist ideologies directly, rather than through electoral means.[25] " 

The latest headlines:

https://m-huffpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d3cc877e4b0ef792e0d1ecc/amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#aoh=15644505832842&amp_ct=1564450791492&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d3cc877e4b0ef792e0d1ecc/amp#aoh=15644505832842&amp_ct=1564450791492&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s 

"Trump Warns 'Gutless' Antifa May Be Branded A Terror Group As Far-Right Killings Climb

The loose collection of groups of antifascist protesters haven't been linked to a single death, while right-wing extremists' tally mounts.

By Mary Papenfuss

07/27/2019 08:39 PM ET "

"President Donald Trump warned Saturday that “consideration is being given” to declaring antifacist protesters — Antifa — a “terror” organization. He issued the threat even though Antifa followers haven’t been linked to a single killing, while the death toll of far-right extremists is surging. "


https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/cassidy-cruz-antifa-is-a-domestic-terrorist-organization

"Cassidy, Cruz: Antifa is a Domestic Terrorist Organization

WASHINGTON–U.S. Senators Bill Cassidy, M.D. (R-LA) and Ted Cruz (R-TX) today introduced a resolution to the U.S. Senate condemning the violent acts carried out by members of Antifa and calling for the designation of the group as a domestic terrorist organization. 

“Antifa are terrorists, violent masked bullies who ‘fight fascism’ with actual fascism, protected by Liberal privilege,” said Dr. Cassidy. “Bullies get their way until someone says no. Elected officials must have courage, not cowardice, to prevent terror.”

“Antifa is a terrorist organization composed of hateful, intolerant radicals who pursue their extreme agenda through aggressive violence,” said Senator Cruz. “Time and time again their actions have demonstrated that their central purpose is to inflict harm on those who oppose their views. Like any terrorist organization they choose to pursue their political ends through violence, fear and intimidation. They must be stopped. I am proud to introduce this resolution with Senator Cassidy to properly identify what Antifa are: domestic terrorists.”

Recently, Antifa took to the streets, cloaked in black masks, and engaged in violent demonstrations on the streets of Portland, Oregon. Journalist Andy Ngo was hospitalized, others seriously injured as well after being attacked by members of the group.

The full text of the resolution is below.

RESOLUTION:

Title: Calling for the designation of Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization.

Whereas members of Antifa, because they believe that free speech is equivalent to violence, have used threats of violence in the pursuit of suppressing opposing political ideologies;

Whereas Antifa represents opposition to the democratic ideals of peaceful assembly and free speech for all;

Whereas members of Antifa have physically assaulted journalists and other individuals during protests and riots in Berkeley, California;

Whereas in February of 2018, journalist Andy Ngo was intimidated and threatened with violence by protestors affiliated with Antifa;

Whereas on June 29, 2019, while covering demonstrations in Portland, Oregon, journalist Andy Ngo was physically attacked by protestors affiliated with Antifa;

Whereas employees of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (referred to in this preamble as “ICE”) were subjected to doxxing and violent threats after their social media profiles, phone numbers, and home addresses were posted on the Internet by left wing activists;

Whereas according to the Wall Street Journal, an ICE officer was followed by left wing activists and “confronted when he went to pick up his daughter from summer camp”, and another “had his name and photo plastered on flyers outside his home accusing him of being part of the ‘Gestapo’”;

Whereas the ICE office in southwest Portland, Oregon, was shut down for days due to threats and occupation by Antifa members;

Whereas Rose City Antifa, an Antifa group founded in 2007 in Portland, Oregon, explicitly rejects the authority of law enforcement officers in the United States, and Federal, State, and local governments, to protect free speech and stop acts of violence;

Whereas Rose City Antifa rejects the civil treatment of individuals the group labels as fascists, stating: “We can’t just argue against them; we have to prevent them from organizing by any means necessary.”; and

Whereas there is no place for violence in the discourse between people in the United States, or in any civil society, because the United States is a place where there is a diversity of ideas and opinions: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the Senate—

(1) calls for the groups and organizations across the country who act under the banner of Antifa to be designated as domestic terrorist organizations;

(2) unequivocally condemns the violent actions of Antifa groups as unacceptable acts for anyone in the United States;

(3) expresses the need for the peaceful communication of varied ideas in the United States;

(4) urges any group or organizations in the United States to voice its opinions without using violence or threatening the health, safety, or well-being of any other persons, groups, or law enforcement officers in the United States; and

(5) calls upon the Federal Government to redouble its efforts, using all available and appropriate tools, to combat the spread of all forms of domestic terrorism, including White supremacist terrorism. "

And then there's this additional information to be educated on:

https://amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/29/europe/germany-antifa-trump-twitter-scli-intl/index.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#aoh=15644505832842&amp_ct=1564451022563&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/29/europe/germany-antifa-trump-twitter-scli-intl/index.html

"Trump threatened to classify Antifa as a terrorist group. Germans hit back

By Rob Picheta, CNN 

Updated 12:01 PM EDT, Mon July 29, 2019 "

"(CNN)President Donald Trump's threat to label anti-fascism protest movement Antifa a terrorist organization has prompted a backlash in Germany, where thousands of social media users have pledged solidarity with the group.

Trump tweeted on Saturday that the activist group was made up of "gutless Radical Left Wack Jobs who go around hitting (only non-fighters) people over the heads with baseball bats." He said a move was being considered to label the movement a "major Organization of Terror (along with MS-13 & others)," referring to the international criminal gang the Mara Salvatrucha. "

"His tweet followed the introduction of a resolution by Republican Sens. Ted Cruz and Bill Cassidy, aiming to have the group identified as "domestic terrorists."

"But the call prompted a flurry of tweets in the US and in Germany, where #IchBinAntifa -- I am Antifa -- started trending on Twitter.

Several users who used the hashtag referenced Germany's history of fascism and anti-fascist resistance during the Nazi period.

"#IchbinAntifa because my grandfather fought the fascists after they nearly wiped out our entire family," Krsto Lazarević wrote. "

"Another user added, in a tweet that was retweeted hundreds of times: "#IchbinAntifa Because history teaches us just how fragile democracy and the rule of law are when giving right-wing extremists power."

German daily newspaper Neues Deutschland added that they were "outraged" that Trump was considering labeling the group terrorists. "

"Antifa, whose name is short for "anti-fascist," have become increasingly visible since the Charlottesville protests in 2017, when white nationalists rallied against the removal of a Gen. Robert E. Lee statue, and the Antifa mounted a counter-demonstration that turned violent. Trump infamously said in the aftermath that there were "very fine people" on both sides.

The term is used to define a broad group of people whose political beliefs lean toward the left -- often the far left -- but do not conform with the Democratic Party platform.

The group doesn't have an official leader or headquarters, although groups in certain states hold regular meetings.

It is known for causing damage to property during protests, and caused controversy when conservative journalist Andy Ngo claimed he had been attacked by members of the movement "

So it would appear that Antifa, has maybe caught on in Germany? 

Antifa, is building an influence, and some of the U.S. citizens, appear to be getting a tad fed up, with their negativity, and their harmful actions?

So a question comes to mind, why haven't some of those Antifa individuals, been arrested for assaulting Andy Ngo? 

And what is so visually groundbreaking, about the Antifa members wearing face covers?

Maybe because they lack an inner courage to protest, like most law abiding individuals do? 

There are various groups, who have worn face coverings as well?

So exactly does the face covering represent, or mean?

Becoming, in a sense a nationwide known trouble causing group, and the face coverings, are a cheap and sad way, to keep their troubled selves out of trouble?

GeoLibCogScientist

@all4actt

Would you mind posting a link to their documentary, or at least the title? 

TKDB

@GeoLibCogScientist

From Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

WinstonC

The common idea behind ANTIFA is that forcibly suppressing conservative viewpoints is good for the U.S. However, given that one of the hallmarks of fascism is forcible suppression of political opposition, and fascism is a bad idea, I do not think that they are helping the U.S.

all4actt

Geoubscientist. Sorry I wstched it on Prime TV and it looks like they removed it

piloteer

hitler hated capitalism more than any other form of economic system. He singled out the US as the most vile of countries. Fascism is anti-American. ANTIFA is pro-America.

Plaffelvohfen

@piloteer

That is factually incorrect... Hitler was profoundly anti-communist... Marxism, Bolshevism, and communism were interchangeable terms for Hitler as evidenced by their numerous use in Mein Kampf, just search the text for those words you'll see... Also, from 1930 to 1933 Germany re-privatized most of the nationalized industries, more than any other country of the time, a staunch anti-capitalist would never do that...

Now, I'm not saying he was a supporter of unbound capitalism, but he despised communism a lot more...

MayCaesar

Antifa is an international movement of militant left-wing anarchists. Their views actually have nothing to do with opposing fascism, as they label every form of hierarchy, voluntary or not, as "fascism".

They are not much better than fascists themselves; they are just a different brand of authoritarians.

piloteer

@Plaffelvohfen ;

It would seem your point of view is influenced by a common misconception about who the nazis were, and what they actually stood for. First things first, lets get your evidence taken care of, and out of the way. If Germany re-privatized national industries between the years of 1930 to 1933, then that time frame would have nothing at all to do with the nazis because they weren't in control until 1933, the year the unprecedented privatization ended. It's actually an argument that works against your point that the nazis were "anti-communist".  

When we dissect the 25 point nazi party program, we can plainly see that it was written as a direct response to the American constitution. Your assertion that the nazis were anti-communist, is actually a misinterpretation of hitlers words. They were anti-Russian, and anti-Slavic, but not necessarily anti-communist. Their only real gripe with communism was that it wasn't "communist enough", as joseph goebbels put it. With all the evidence that I will provide, it will be plain to see that the nazis not only wanted to have a collectivist economy, but also wanted that collectivism to be ensconced in their politics, and social order. They were actually a more radical version of communism. 

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions".

                                                                                                               adolf hitler.

The idea that the nazis were anti-communist, so they must have been closer to capitalism couldn't be further from the truth.  More than half of the 25 point nazi party program called for socialistic economic laws to be implemented, and it calls for a strict rejection of capitalism. Point 13 of the Nazi party program called for the nationalization of all corporations. Point 14 called for profit sharing of large industrial enterprises. Point 15 demanded generous development of state-run old age insurance. Point 16 called for the immediate socialization of huge department stores. In 1921, the nazi party entered into negotiations to merge with the German socialist party. The negotiations fell through, but an obvious commitment to socialism is apparent none the less. 
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/25points.htm


joseph goebbles was well read in Marx and Engels writings, and he agreed with them and he made absolutely no effort to hide that fact. He was known to quote them both, with the greatest of ease. He had a vehement hatred of capitalists, and he called them "the money pigs of capitalist democracy". The nazis thought communism was hopelessly hung up in matters of economics, while it totally ignored social matters. They felt that beyond economic collectivism, a strong centralized government was needed to implement a social collectivism, and that's where the communists fell short. In the words of joseph goebbles, which could easily have come straight out of the communist manifesto. 

"Money has made slaves of us". "Money is the curse of mankind". 

And another quote.

"Lenin is the greatest man, second only to Hitler, and that the difference between Communism and the Hitler faith is very slight.

But beyond the economic policies of the nazis were the social policies that truly distinguished the nazis as an anti-American political party. Point 1of the nazi party program asserted that any countries outside of Germany with large German populations should become property of Germany, and those Germans will be subject to all the laws of the reich. This is a reaction to to basic liberty, and the sovereignty of other nations. Point 3 asserted that only people with German blood could be citizens of Germany. They singled the Jews out, and they stated without question that they could not be German citizens. This is a direct response to the idea that "all men were created equal" which we find in the constitution. Point 10 of the nazi party program asserted that all Germans must work for the common good of Germany rather than their own self interest. This is a reaction to the individuality that is stressed in the constitution. Point 11 asserted that "unearned income" will be made illegal. That meant that if someone created art, literature, movies, photos, or any product or sevice that was deemed offensive to the nazis, the income would be taken by the nazis. This is a reaction to freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom to private property, and economic freedom. Point 17 outlawed land speculation, which meant it was illegal to buy land for the purpose of selling it for profit. It also stipulated that any and all land could be taken by the reich, for any reason, and at any time, without compensation. It asserted that all German land was owned by all of Germany, and by no individual. This is a response to freedom of private property, and economic freedom.  Point 18 stated that work for the purpose of profit was punishable by death, regardless of race or creed. This point was intended to drive home the dedication the nazis had for altruistic policies that were stipulated in point 10. This is a reversal of economic freedom and individualism. Point 20 stated that education shall be geared toward "practical things" and focus on work requirements, social expectations, and social order. This was a reversal of how most Americans view education. Instead of a tool for enlightenment, it became a tool for educating the public on what was expected of them regarding their socioeconomic status. Point 21 made it law that all German citizens be athletic and in the highest condition of health possible. This was a reversal of basic liberty. Point 21also made sports compulsory for children. This takes parents rights away, and gives those rights to the reich. Point 23 made it illegal for the press to criticize the German government, or its people. It outlawed non-citizens from owning newspapers also. This is a reaction to freedom of the press,  and freedom of speech.  Point 24 stated that any religion that was deemed offensive to the nazis moral and ethical sense, or the Germanic race, were outlawed. This is a reaction to freedom of religion. After the fire in the Reichstag in 1933, the nazis suspended freedom of assembly indefinitely. 

                                   COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

Those words were written in bold letters before point 25 to drive home the collectivist economic, and social policies that the nazis embraced, and expected of all German people. Point 25 called for a strong central government which had "unconditional authority". It also asserted that that authority be handed down to the state level, and all subsidiary groups will be formed on the basis of class. This is a reaction to the rights of states, and the power to petition the government that's guaranteed in the American constitution. It also solidified individuals socioeconomic status in law, and dissolved the opportunity to rise up the economic ladder. It made the caste economic system a law.

The entire Bill of Rights was created to protect rights the original citizens believed were naturally theirs, including:

• Freedom of Religion. ...
• Freedom of Speech, Press, Petition, and Assembly. ...
• Privacy. ...
• Due Process of Law. ...
• Equality Before the Law.

The 25 point nazi party program reversed all these rights.

Not to say the nazis didn't allow private companies to exist, but those private business owners were usually the richest and most arduous supporters of the nazi party. And those private business owners had to pay their employees the rates that were set by the reich, and sell their products at the prices set by the reich. The nazis also implemented a system of stamps that regulated who could buy goods, and when and how much they could buy. So the profits of the private companies were effectively set by the reich. That was a level of efficiency that the Russian communists could have only ever dreamed of. 

Given all the evidence that I provided, it's plain to see that the nazis used the American constitution as their framework, but purposely sought to reverse as much of the rights guaranteed in the constitution. The nazis were not "anti-communist" like you believe, they were just anti-Slavic, and vehemently nationalistic. So my original argument does hold water. ANTIFA seeks to expose fascist sentiments, and policies wherever they arise. 

ANTIFA ARE NOT TERRORISTS. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS!!!!

Sharky

@piloteer

An organization that openly and proudly espouses and encourages the use of violence in a lawless effort to silence the peaceful expression of ANY opposing political views is inherently un-American. I am not sure how anyone who understands our Constitution can contend otherwise.

Please elaborate on how you can possibly come to the conclusion that "ANTIFA is pro-America." How familiar are you with their tactics? Have you seen any videos of them attacking people or do you get your news from sources that protect them? More often than not, the attackers don't know the people they're attacking and have no knowledge of their victims' beliefs or ideology. They attack because other masked Antifa members are already attacking and they believe it is expected of them to join in, much like a pack of hyenas. This is why they show up masked and armed with things like pepper spray and concrete "milkshakes".  

The worst part about the mindless, violent members of Antifa is that most of them couldn't define "fascism" if they were asked to do so. In fact, if they were asked, they'd probably attack the interviewer and encourage their comrades to join them in beating a "fascist" who asked them a question they didn't like. 

piloteer

@Sharky

It's not like ANTIFA are anything like the weather underground, or the American neo-nazi movement. When will there be cries to shutdown the neo-nazi movement which actually has ties to domestic terrorist attacks? They've been known to commit murder, including bombings, shootings, taking hostages, and in the prison system, they've been known to sell drugs. The FBI considers the neo-nazis the most dangerous gang in America, and world wide. The FBI does not consider ANTIFA to be nearly as dangerous as the neo-nazis. Exactly how many bombings, or shootings can be tied to ANTIFA, yet they are the ones who are the terrorists?!?!? The terrorist actions of the neo-nazi movement can absolutely be tied to them as an organization, while the actions of supposed ANTIFA members cannot. ANTIFA is a decentralized network, and its only true cause is to oppose fascism where it can be found. Violence is not a true cause of ANTIFA, like it is for the neo-nazis who openly and proudly encourage killing. Because ANTIFA has no central authority, anybody who considers themselves an ANTIFA member can interpret for themselves what the true cause of ANTIFA is. The decentralized manner in which they function is a byproduct of who and what they oppose, because the groups or people they do oppose embrace strict authoritarian policies. I absolutely understand the constitution because I realize that if American pride has to be made a law, then a) that would be a violation of the constitution, and b), if pride needs to be a law, that means there's something wrong with America that makes people not want to have pride for the policies that take place. Pride should be natural for everybody. If it's law, it's not genuine. The neo-nazis and other pro-fascist organizations who actually do carry out terrorist acts are considered terrorist organizations by the feds, and for good reason. ANTIFA is not considered a terrorist organization by the feds, and that is also for good reason. The only reason some people do consider them terrorists is because they stand in the way of pro-fascist sentiments, and they just simply don't like that!!

ANTIFA ARE NOT TERRORISTS. OUR PRESIDENT IS!!!!!

WinstonC

@piloteer "The only reason some people do consider them terrorists is because they stand in the way of pro-fascist sentiments, and they just simply don't like that!!"

I'm sure that they attack actual fascists too, but I usually see them attacking moderate conservatives.

"ANTIFA ARE NOT TERRORISTS."

The use of violence and intimidation to achieve political ends is the definition of terrorism.

piloteer

@WinstonC

Your using conjecture and manipulation. The abhorrent acts of a few people who identify as ANTIFA members can't be considered representative acts of the true cause of ANTIFA. Just like it would be erroneous to consider the three mass shootings in the last two weeks to be acts of the GOP because those people identify as republicans. It's sickening how people consider a group who is trying to defend against fascist sentiments to be the terrorists, yet the extremists within the republican party have free reign to walk into shopping malls and festivals and kill inoccent people. The right has declared war on the US and nobody considers them the terrorists. I challenge you to show us an official website or statement from ANTIFA where they espouse the use of murder, including mass shootings, kidnappings, and bombings. I dually challenge you to demonstrate that the American neo-nazis, the white nationalist movement, and the kkk do not espouse the use of violence by way of mass shootings, kidnapping, and bombings. The only people who want ANTIFA to be considered a terrorist organization are the ones who want the US to be a fascist nation!!!!!!!

#ANTIFAFOREVER!!!!!

TKDB

https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-lt-gov-warns-antifa-080400708.html

"Texas Lt. Gov Warns Antifa: ‘Stay Out Of Texas’ In Wake Of Walmart Shooting"

"Politics,

Antifa is planning a “Border Resistance” exercise involving a “militancy training tour that will converge on a 10-day siege in El Paso, TX,” a July tweet from journalist Andy Ngo said.

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick told Antifa to “stay out of Texas” in the aftermath of a shooting at an El Paso Walmart Saturday."

"Patrick said to Fox News that police have a 21-year-old male suspect in custody, but that police have not confirmed if this suspect in custody is the shooter. He also added that there have been 15 to 20 casualties reported thus far."

"The lieutenant governor referred to reports that an Antifa group plans to go to Texas and perform militancy exercises at the border. Patrick warned the group to stay out of Texas.

“I was looking at a story recently in the last couple days where Antifa is posting they want to come to El Paso and do a 10-day siege. Clear message to Antifa: Stay out of El Paso. Stay out of Texas, basically. We don’t need them coming in on Sept. 1,” Patrick, a Republican, told Fox News.

“We didn’t need them to begin with before this happened,” he said. “I would say to Antifa, scratch Texas off the map and don’t come in. It’s not the time and place forthem to come at any time, particularly in aftermath of what happened in El Paso.”

 

"Antifa is leading a “Border Resistance” militancy training tour that will converge on a 10-day siege in El Paso, TX. The promotional image shows border enforcement officers being killed & government property fired bombed. Organizers asking for “white comrades” to pay for others. pic.twitter.com/zwG7iMLMZT

— Andy Ngo (@MrAndyNgo) ;July 29, 2019" 

"Antifa is planning a “Border Resistance” exercise involving a “militancy training tour that will converge on a 10-day siege in El Paso, TX,” a July tweet from journalist Andy Ngo said."

WinstonC

@piloteer "The abhorrent acts of a few people who identify as ANTIFA members can't be considered representative acts of the true cause of ANTIFA."

It's a common theme in ANTIFA cells. Precisely what actions do ANTIFA take that aren't violence and intimidation? My view is that their modern popularity was spawned out of the "punch a Nazi" meme.

"It's sickening how people consider a group who is trying to defend against fascist sentiments to be the terrorists"

Forcible suppression of political opposition is one of the hallmarks of fascism.

"yet the extremists within the republican party have free reign to walk into shopping malls and festivals and kill inoccent people"

Could we say the same about the recent ICE terrorist in regards to the democrats?

"The right has declared war on the US and nobody considers them the terrorists."

When you say the right you surely mean the fringe far right? They are a tiny minority.

"I challenge you to show us an official website or statement from ANTIFA where they espouse the use of murder, including mass shootings, kidnappings, and bombings."

Please link me any "official" ANTIFA content. As far as I was aware, there is no "official" website or anything of the sort to source any such claim from. Other than violent demonstrations and intimidation in order to deplatform, what exactly do ANTIFA do?

"I dually challenge you to demonstrate that the American neo-nazis, the white nationalist movement, and the kkk do not espouse the use of violence by way of mass shootings, kidnapping, and bombings."

The groups that do so are terrorists.

"The only people who want ANTIFA to be considered a terrorist organization are the ones who want the US to be a fascist nation!!!!!!!"

Do you really think that I want the U.S. to be a fascist nation?

TKDB

@piloteer

Where is your evidence to support your claims?

"ANTIFA ARE NOT TERRORISTS. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS!!!!"


ANTIFA, is a problem unto themselves, and the Peaceful public overall.

When people want to run around, (wearing face coverings,) something is wrong with their ANTIFA ideology.

And for some time now, when the news media, shows individuals from other countries, (wearing face coverings,) IE the terrorists, who have claimed responsibility for this or that terrorist acts, those face coverings, say something about their ideology as well, doesn't it?

I have a question for you, can your provide any, visual evidence, of the Federal Government members, (wearing face coverings,) and acting out, like ANTIFA does, or the known terrorist groups have done? 

The wearing of face coverings, have become the calling card, for ANTIFA, and the known terrorists groups. 

Sharky

@piloteer

It is getting increasingly worrisome that so many Americans are succumbing to this mass hysteria concerning fascism, Neo-Nazism, far right terrorist groups, white nationalism, white supremacy and racism. The actual effects and influence of all of these ideologies combined on everyday life in the United States is minuscule to the point of being undetectable. The fact is that the American left has hyped all of these things in an effort to distract from their embarrassing showing in the 2016 elections and in the ensuing ridiculous effort to show that Donald Trump acted as an agent of Russia. They are also using this argument as a fear-mongering campaign to convince poorly informed minorities that there is a concerted and well-organized movement meant to intimidate, marginalize and even kill them. It's a sick and reprehensible lie with nothing but disingenuous political roots. 

You say: " When will there be cries to shutdown the neo-nazi movement which actually has ties to domestic terrorist attacks? They've been known to commit murder, including bombings, shootings, taking hostages, and in the prison system, they've been known to sell drugs."

Maybe if any of this was really happening there would be cries. Please cite for us the stories related to these crimes and terror attacks. I consider myself a true newshound and yet, I have somehow missed all of this "domestic terrorism" that you claim is happening all around us. Keep in mind, piloteer, that acts of mass murder by individuals who are mentally deranged are most assuredly NOT domestic terrorism. You may also want to consider that many, if not most, of these type of acts are committed by people with leftist political beliefs, not imaginary far-right extremism. 

You say: "The terrorist actions of the neo-nazi movement can absolutely be tied to them as an organization, while the actions of supposed ANTIFA members cannot."

Again, please demonstrate that a consequential Neo-Nazi movement even exists in the United States, keeping in mind that a tiny handful of hateful loudmouths does not constitute a dangerous "domestic terror" organization. If you are able to establish that they exist and are organized, please feel free to "tie" them to the many terrorist acts you allege that they've committed in our country.

You say: "The decentralized manner in which they (Antifa) function is a byproduct of who and what they oppose, because the groups or people they do oppose embrace strict authoritarian policies. "

Is it? If Antifa is so "decentralized", how do they manage to organize and turn out dozens, if not hundreds, of masked, armed militants to every event where even moderate conservatives are supposed to appear? In largely liberal cities like Portland or Seattle, how can so many supposedly "anti-fascist" activists mobilize to intimidate and physically beat their political opponents in the streets? The ability to turn out these violent crowds "spontaneously" screams out the fact that they are pointedly and carefully centralized and organized, just like the terrorist organization that they are. By the way, do you REALLY believe that conservative columnists, commentators, authors and politicians all "embrace strict authoritarian policies"? Does Andy Ngo look like a "strict authoritarian" to you? If so, you have precisely zero understanding of conservative political thought. It is the left that demands bigger, more powerful government with greater control over the population and the freedoms we enjoy. It is the left that wants to curtail free speech and freedom of expression. Again, I contend that most Antifa members couldn't define "fascism" if asked. I imagine watching them try would be quite entertaining, actually.  

You say: "The only reason some people do consider them terrorists is because they stand in the way of pro-fascist sentiments, and they just simply don't like that!!

ANTIFA ARE NOT TERRORISTS. OUR PRESIDENT IS!!!!!

The reason some people consider them terrorists is because their actions fit the definition of terrorism precisely. 

terrorism

• n.
  The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals.
• n.
  Resort to terrorizing methods as a means of coercion, or the state of fear and submission produced by the prevalence of such methods.
• n.
  The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode of government by terror or intimidation.

Antifa is NOT standing in the way of pro-fascist sentiments. They are using violence and intimidation to silence anyone who disagrees with them and they're attempting to paint everyone they oppose as a "fascist". Again, I don't believe that you or most Antifa members even know what fascism really means. And based on the unhinged, bold caps and quintuple exclamation points of your final statement, you have no understanding of terrorism, either. 

TKDB

https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/us/police-seize-weapons-at-portland-protest.amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-protests-antifa-proud-boys-
demonstrations-trump

"At least 13 arrested at Portland protests as police try to keep Antifa, right-wing demonstrators apart"

"At least 13 people were arrested as far-right groups and far-left members of Antifaconducted dueling demonstrations in the center of Portland, Ore. Saturday.

Authorities did not immediately release details of the arrests. Earlier in the day, the Portland Police Bureau tweeted images of weapons it had seized from multiple groups, including bear spray, shields and metal and wooden poles.

Police said one injured person was taken to a local hospital, but no further information about the victim was released. Three others had been evaluated by Portland fire medics. All the injuries were considered to be minor.

Shortly before 3:30 p.m. local time, police spokesperson Lt. Tina Jones said that more than 1,000 people had gathered in and around the downtown area as part of the demonstrations. She added that police were "focused on keeping opposing groups separate, although there have been some interactions between individuals."

"Flag-waving members of the Proud Boys and Three Percenters militia group began gathering late in the morning, some wearing body armor and helmets. Meanwhile, black-clad, helmet and mask-wearing Antifa members were also among the several hundred people on the streets. The groups gathered on both sides of the Willamette River, which runs through the city.

Authorities used sound trucks and loudspeakers to remind demonstrators both sides to stay out of the streets or they would be arrested. They also set up concrete barriers and closed streets and bridges in an effort to contain and separate the rival groups."

"More than two dozen local, state and federal law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, were in the city for the right-wing rally, which was expected to draw people from across the country. Portland Police said all of the city's 1,000 officers would be on duty for the gathering that was hyped on social media and elsewhere for weeks.

Not all who gathered Saturday were with right-wing groups or Antifa. Also on hand were people dressed in colorful outfits and those who attended a nearby prayer service, holding signs that said slogans such as "No Trump, No NRA."

Police formed a physical barricade beneath the Morrison Bridge in Tom McCall Waterfront Park to separate the rival groups from sparring. The Proud Boys and their supporters were on the south side of the divide while the counter-protesters remained on the north side, according to reports by The Oregonian. "

"KPTV and The Oregonian reported that some of the demonstrators began to leave in the early afternoon, with authorities briefly re-opening the Hawthorne Bridge to allow them to pass. Police used officers on bikes and in riot gear to prevent members of Antifa from following them. The Oregonian reported that a group of left-wing demonstrators attacked a bus carrying a group of Proud Boys out of downtown Portland, breaking some windows.

"The Proud Boys contacted us or contacted the units on the ground saying that they wanted to leave and so we facilitated for them to leave the area," Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Sgt. Brandon White told the newspaper. "It wasn’t planned. It wasn’t orchestrated. We had a request that they would like to leave the area and so we facilitated."

Among those attending the demonstration was Patriot Prayer's Joey Gibson, who organized similar rallies in 2017 and 2018 that erupted in clashes. Gibson surrendered Friday on an arrest warrant for felony rioting but was released on bail hours later.

"I’m just here for the ride," Gibson told The Oregonian. "

"Organizer Joe Biggs told the paper that the demonstrators "wanted national attention and we got it."

"Go look at President Trump’s Twitter,” Biggs said. “He talked about Portland, said he’s watching Antifa. That’s all we wanted ... Mission success."

President Trump tweeted Saturday morning that he is considering designating Antifa a domestic terror group.

"Major consideration is being given to naming ANTIFA an ‘ORGANIZATION OF TERROR,’” Trump said. “Portland is being watched very closely. Hopefully the Mayor will be able to properly do his job!” 

"Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler said the message to protestors on both sides is "We don't want your hatred, we don't want your violence, but if you come here, we're going to be prepared," he said in an interview on Fox News' "Outnumbered Overtime" on Friday.

"Again, when it comes to enforcement of our community standards, we support people's rights to demonstrate, but we don't care about who you are or your politics are," he said. "If you engage in violence in this city, you will be held accountable." 

ANTIFA, being talked about by the POTUS, on Twitter.

So they did, what they did, just to try to get the President's attention, via Twitter?

Where are those protesters, to protest the mass shooters gun violence, or the race on race gun violence, or the non, race gun violence? 

Or those protesters, to protest those criminals, or offenders, who have shot at Police Officers, with their illegal guns? 

How about a protest, to call out the domestic violence abusers, who abuse their own families, with verbal, and mental abuse?

piloteer

@Sharky

https://www.journal-news.com/news/local/former-militia-members-including-franklin-man-plead-guilty-explosives-charges/gJQLrPpcthXm3TlrAl57fM/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/coast-guard-officer-accused-of-plotting-terror-attack-to-remain-jailed-judge-says/2019/05/13/d1b48430-741f-11e9-9f06-5fc2ee80027a_story.html

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/skbaer/cesar-sayoc-mail-bomb-suspect-sentenced

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-shot-injured-southern-california-synagogue-n999191

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/09/749954115/el-paso-alleged-gunman-admitted-i-m-the-shooter-police-say

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/mlk-parade-bomber

https://natall.com/about/what-we-believe/

https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-suspect/index.html


https://time.com/5647304/white-nationalist-terrorism-united-states/

Absolutely none of this was done in the name of antifa or the democrats. It is ALL republican white nationalists who have committed these acts. The trump administration has purposely slashed the budget of FBI investigations that focus on "far-right extremists" who are poised to commit acts of terrorism. Members of the FBI have just testified before Congress saying that domestic terrorism is more of a threat to the US than foreign terrorism, and in the last 18 months 73% of their investigations were related to white-nationalists. How many bombs that were laced with a substance that stops blood from clotting were placed at an MLK day parade route by ANTIFA? NONE!!!!!! Here's a bit of news for you, You obviously have been a lazy news hound lately!!!!!!!!!! Trust me "news hound", these were just a small fraction of the endless other articles of acts of war committed by white-nationalists. And also, these acts of war can't be considered as such because there's no federal laws that can prosecute domestic terrorists the same way foreign terrorists can be prosecuted. Am I the only one who finds it concerning that a pro-trump republican only got 20 years for committing an act of war that would be punishable by death if a foreign agents had done it?   Yes, I absolutely believe believe that conservative columnists, commentators, authors and politicians all "embrace strict authoritarian policies". There is no longer any such thing as a conservative party any longer. The republicans are nationalists and have adopted a neo-isolation platform mixed in with a protectionist agenda. That's national socialism!!!!! American conservatism is dead. Stop identifying as a conservative, you're dragging our name through the $hit!!!    

TKDB

@piloteer

The United States is better, than how ANTIFA, and the so called White Nationalists are treating it.

I've yet to hear a White Nationalists individual preaching their rhetoric from a street corner.

Nor have I yet to hear an ANTIFA individual preaching their rhetoric from, their own street corner, either. 

It's amazing how some of the various websites on the internet, through their own opinion ripe, opinionated articles, can and will, from the street corners of the own mouths, and their keyboards, express what they will, from the leisure, of their own one sided opinions.

Just because, they can, doesn't make their opinions just.

https://www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2019/8/6/20754828/el-paso-shooting-white-supremacy-rise?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/6/20754828/el-paso-shooting-white-supremacy-rise

"The El Paso shooting isn’t an anomaly. It’s American history repeating itself.

"Why white supremacist violence is rising today — and how it echoes some of the darkest moments of our past."

The writer of this Opinion Journalism piece, can express what they choose to, but I'm not buying into it, not am I giving it any justification.

But I'm viewing it, as an educational tool, to help me understand, some mindsets better.

The internet overall, has become a great reference material source, for Opinion Journalism articles.

The American public overall, is bigger, and better, than the acting that ANTIFA, or the White Nationalists, can commit, or come up with. 

They, and their factions, look sad and silly.

So, we as humane human beings, can do better, than to mindfully diminish, ourselves down to their troubling mindsets. 

TKDB

https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/us/police-seize-weapons-at-portland-protest.amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQEKAFwAQ==#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-protests-antifa-proud-boys-
demonstrations-trump

"At least 13 arrested at Portland protests as police try to keep Antifa, right-wing demonstrators apart"