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I'm prochoice, can you change my mind?

Debate Information

I believe the fetus is not a baby, until it has brainwaves, and women have the right to choose whether to have an abortion, or give birth. I dpent years of suicidal thoughts due to antichoice propaganda, because I took some progestin only birth control pills after I was raped. I thought I had killed a baby. I am so tired of antis terrorizing women with their lies.
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Arguments

    Arguments


  • no
    why so serious?
  • I dpent years of suicidal thoughts due to antichoice propaganda,

    I Spent years with suicidal thoughts due to antichoice propaganda.

    Na! More than likely the idea of the hidden self-incrimination weighed on your subconscious. In basic principle woman kill babies by abortion when not getting pregnant by choice, not by terminating a pregnancy out of necessity or maybe choice of female specific amputation. In a military structure, under marshal law, a woman bound by honor and axiom would be enforcing a matter of international immigration in a united State placing her equality to all woman. Meaning without loss of presumption of innocence set upon on all woman.

    Welcome to the hard way...…….C.F central.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • Could we maybe not make more abortion debates? It seems like there’s a new one every day
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42AlofRI
    Not every quote you read on the internet is true- Abraham Lincoln
  • @AmericanFurryBoy ;

    By that I take it no female specific amputation debates as well?
  • I would like to start off by saying that I am neither pro-life or pro-choice, I categorize myself in a third category, we will call it pro-freedom that is little discussed in this ongoing debate. My argument and position is equally valid against both pro-life and pro-choice, however I will only post it here because the pro-life debate seems filled up.

    There are strong moral, philosophical, and legal arguments from both sides that complicate this issue essentially into oblivion. However, and the main point that I think will change your mind, is that both of these positions, ( pro-life and pro-choice ) ignore the actual issue, which is undesired pregnancy. This debate is about damage control, and therefore the way it is handled should be secondary to preventing the unwanted pregnancy in the first place. Arguing for either side is like arguing over the best way to fight a house fire, instead of implementing greater fire safety measures.

    Therefore, the only appropriate solution to this debate is to attack the root rather than the symptoms, in this case to decouple sex from childbirth. There are many ways to move forward with this, in particular education about safe sex practices, distribution of existing birth control for women, and in particular the research and development of a male equivalent birth control. Every year hundreds of thousands of women have unwanted pregnancies, and these could be further minimized through the introduction of another "filter" or layer of protection against pregnancy. If a male equivalent birth control could be created with 99% efficiency, that would drop the unwanted pregnancies to just thousands per year, essentially solving the problem through statistical irrelevancy, although not eliminating it.

    Pro-life is the freedom for babies to have a chance at life, and the right to subjugate women through childbirth. Thus it should never be allowed to happen.
    Pro-choice is the freedom for a mother to do what she wants with her body, and the right to kill the innocent unborn. Thus it should never be allowed to happen.
    Pro-freedom is the right to have as much sex as any consenting adults want, free from risk of pregnancy or disease. Thus it is the world we should strive to create!
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • Since this is a free country, at the moment, you have the right to be EITHER. I hope we don't lose that right. I hope we don't make a joke out of the SCOTUS by "Christianizing" it (and the Constitution), beyond reason.
  • AlofRI said:
    Since this is a free country, at the moment, you have the right to be EITHER. I hope we don't lose that right. I hope we don't make a joke out of the SCOTUS by "Christianizing" it (and the Constitution), beyond reason.
    Pro-Choice is describing a liberty not a right, calling woman out by self-incrimination is a liberty which is easily abolished constitutionally. Female specific amputation is one abolishment of self-incrimination to add to available choices and not the one choice.
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; Science has confirmed the Holy Spirit's Truth in Scripture that life begins at conception; therefore, Roe v. Wade (1973) is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and every child murdered/mutilated via this unconscionable SCOTUS decision or relevant State Law, said dead child has been denied their 5th and 14th-Amendment due process protections, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Abortion is murder and if you are pro-choice, support a pro-choice political candidate or party, you have the blood of 61-million-babies on your hands and unless you repent of this sin and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of your sin, you will NOT see life in God's Kingdom.
  • DeeDee 2653 Pts
    I think you need to read a Bible your ignorance is appalling......


    prays for


    .  “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.  Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give?  Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children.  God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry.  Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

    Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery.  This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

    Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

    Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”.  Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

    2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?


    Ouch! 
  • @Happy_Killbot

    That would be true if people were responsible.  We do have vasectomies that are effective, while i realize thats not a quick or supercheap solution it is available.

    Condoms if used xorrectly are 98% while bieth control is 99% effective. If you use both chances are very, very slim.  Id say most unwanted pregnancies that occur lack one or both of the forms of contraception.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @RickeyD ;
    Life begins with the creation of an egg in basic principle for all woman including woman of religion, woman of science, woman of politics, and all woman who may become pregnant.
    Roe Versus Wade describes the loss of privacy taking place by self-incrimination that woman and others did not constitutional address correctly when given opportunity to create all woman as equal. A child in stages of early development is denied entry across an international border into a nation, as the combination of sperm and egg have a legal precedent by United State in Constitutional right to die already made clear by woman. This is due to the legal precedent of allowing woman to wait after the creation of egg development having started puberty giving time to find a candidate for a creation of healthy child.

    Outside of religion, by creation of healthcare Insurances there is a competitive market that is created in the general welfare for attempts at genetic sculpting of children. Unfortunately any and all the legal precedents in effect has already happened. The insistence of anyone to promote a self-incrimination is not called for by state legislation or by federal legislation any longer. Female specific amputation is not pregnancy abortion.
  • @MichaelElpers This is about half of my argument. What I am really advocating for is the development of male-equivalent birth control, where either you would get a shot once a month or rub a gel on your shoulders every day and this would reduce the potency of male sperm to 0.1% of normal.

    It's a matter of math and reduction of numbers. if condoms are 98% effective and birth control is 99% then if you use both they will be 99.98% effective, reducing expected births down to 200 in a million. If you add a third layer, male-equivalent birth control that is 99% effective that drops to 2 in a million. Adding another layer of protection could drop the expected unwanted pregnancies down 2 orders of magnitude.

    These have not been developed in the past because the drug companies did not think there would be a market. If I told you there was a drug that could let you have as much sex as you wanted with minimal risk of pregnancy with few or no side effects, would anyone be against that?


    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    No one would be against that.  Id argue they are attempting to do that because it would be worth a lot. I still think a decent number of people would be to lazy to get the shot once a month.  Also i dont thilat shot should be paid for.

    Neglecting how you prove it,
    When i meet in the middle and propose people that they could get an abortion if they use both forms of contraceptives, they still say no.
    People dont like responsibility, they always want a fallback.
  • @MichaelElpers ;

    Anywhere abortion and the word pregnancy are placed together it is a self-incrimination to all woman. Unless there is a trial and a woman is found not guilty by a jury to the admission of murder created by the self-incrimination she made even if it is a grand jury. Because of the admission as self-incrimination all abortions required the trial. All woman perform pregnancy abortions not all woman are forced to admit they perform abortions as all forms of pregnancy abortion take place. With woman introduced to the armed servicers of the United states of America they now have a sworn duty to uphold basic principle and legal precedent and create all woman equal.
  • Unless I know the woman’s medical history, I do not know the child in pregnancy is alive. There is no middle ground with abortion, do not self-incriminate a pregnant woman that is what Roe Versus Wade implied in its court ruling. Female specific amputation is describing a surgical removal, a licensed surgical removal is in no way just an abortion.


  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; Science has confirmed the Holy Spirit's Truth in Scripture that life begins at conception; therefore, Roe v. Wade (1973) is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and every child murdered/mutilated via this unconscionable SCOTUS decision or relevant State Law, said dead child has been denied their 5th and 14th-Amendment due process protections, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Abortion is murder and if you are pro-choice, support a pro-choice political candidate or party, you have the blood of 61-million-babies on your hands and unless you repent of this sin and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of your sin, you will NOT see life in God's Kingdom.
    The concept of life at fertilization is a fictional concept not founded in science or reality. Something without brain activity is not a person, and I have the right to choose what to do with my body. Forced gestion is rape. You literally have no say over my body.
  • AlofRI said:
    Since this is a free country, at the moment, you have the right to be EITHER. I hope we don't lose that right. I hope we don't make a joke out of the SCOTUS by "Christianizing" it (and the Constitution), beyond reason.
    I agree.
  • YeshuaBought
  • RickeyD said:
    Judge not lest ye be judged. There is no proof that something without brainwaves is a baby. You don't get to decide who is a Christian or not, because you are NOT God. Forced gestation is rape, and I have the right to choose what to do with my body. My uterus, my choice.
  • @RickeyD Abortion is not murer, something without brainwaves is not a baby with rights.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 583 Pts
    edited November 2019
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; Brainwaves do NOT denote the beginning of life. You are free to argue with our Creator but when you advocate for the murder of His children in the womb you stain your hands with innocent blood and you will reap a much harsher Judgment in Eternity. You are evil and you are representative of your spiritual father in Time, Satan.
    You did not create life and you have NO right to take it.

  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; Brainwaves do NOT denote the beginning of life. You are free to argue with our Creator but when you advocate for the murder of His children in the womb you stain your hands with innocent blood and you will reap a much harsher Judgment in Eternity. You are evil and you are representative of your spiritual father in Time, Satan.
    You did not create life and you have NO right to take it.

    How unscientific of you.
  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; Brainwaves do NOT denote the beginning of life. You are free to argue with our Creator but when you advocate for the murder of His children in the womb you stain your hands with innocent blood and you will reap a much harsher Judgment in Eternity. You are evil and you are representative of your spiritual father in Time, Satan.
    You did not create life and you have NO right to take it.

    This is MY body, I have the right to choose what to do with MY body! Bodily choice is a human right. Rape culture is not.
  • RickeyDRickeyD 583 Pts
    edited November 2019
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; It's not just "your body" when you're pregnant...there are two-bodies seeking to live and thrive and to murder either is sin and evil.

  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; It's not just "your body" when you're pregnant...there are two-bodies seeking to live and thrive and to murder either is sin and evil.

    Yes it is my body. This is MY uterus! The unwanted use of my reproductive organs by the government, is systematic rape.
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; No one forced you to become pregnant and terminating the life in your uterus is murder of the most innocent. There is no circumventing the culpability involved in the conspiracy to murder a baby existing between a mommy, an abortionist and Satan.


  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; No one forced you to become pregnant and terminating the life in your uterus is murder of the most innocent. There is no circumventing the culpability involved in the conspiracy to murder a baby existing between a mommy, an abortionist and Satan.


    How Christian of you to say that to a rape survivor. Pregnancy by rape happens.
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; Rape pregnancy? Explain this...how does a "civilized" society and a mommy justify murdering an innocent baby for the crime of the baby's father?





  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; Rape pregnancy? Explain this...how does a "civilized" society and a mommy justify murdering an innocent baby for the crime of the baby's father?





    I was raped, so I know what it is like. Only a rape apologist would force a rape victim to give birth.
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; Rape is horror but to compound that horror by murdering a baby is insanity and does nothing but exponentially bring harm and suffering to the mother...she's now been violated by rape and murder.


  • You have no say in whether a rape victim has a baby.
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; I do have a say....I say that a baby deserves due process and that a baby should not be executed for the crime of the baby's father. This is commonsense and common-decency.

    YeshuaBought
  • @YeshuaRedeemed

    >>Yes it is my body. This is MY uterus! The unwanted use of my reproductive organs...

    "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. (1 Cor. 6:20)
      “Never argue with an id'iot They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” ― Mark Twain
  • Neopesdom said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed

    >>Yes it is my body. This is MY uterus! The unwanted use of my reproductive organs...

    "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. (1 Cor. 6:20)
    This is MY body, and I have the right to choose! You don't have the right to MY body!
  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; I do have a say....I say that a baby deserves due process and that a baby should not be executed for the crime of the baby's father. This is commonsense and common-decency.

    You don't have the right to force your beliefs on me. 
  • You have no say in whether a rape victim has a baby.
    Yeah there is a justification for female specific amputation of a child when sexual assault as rape is involved with a possible birth. A woman does not have the choice to stop the birth only to keep a child created by rape. As the sexual assault becomes attempted murder if she choses to keep the child and proceed with birth and the accused can be charged with the attempted murder. 
  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; You don't have the right to kill babies so I guess we're even? If you don't want other's disagreeing with you, why enter a debate forum? Christians don't advocate for the murder of babies.  Jesus said, you will know them by their works.




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