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Is being gay or bisexual a choice?

Debate Information

I did not choose to be attracted to men and women. 
Plaffelvohfensmoothie
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Arguments

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  • @YeshuaRedeemed ; Anyone who rejects God's moral law, the natural law, the law of conscience, the law of human physiological function and purpose, does so with knowledge and intent; therefore, engaging in the unnatural act of homosexuality or lesbianism is a choice to sin against our Creator's edicts prohibiting shame; a choice to sin against one's own body; a choice to reject the natural/moral law written upon our heart at conception by our Creator (Romans 2:15) and a rejection of  the commonsense understanding of human physiology, function in sexuality.

    Engaging in homosexuality - lesbianism is compromise with Satan's will to defile the Plan and purposes of God and His design from the family unit and the protective Covenant provided by Marriage between one-man and one-woman for life.

    Though homosexuality and lesbianism are sin against God and therefore worthy of death in Hell subsequent to the Judgment, God the Father has given the Son, Jesus Christ, to pay the penalty for sin IF the sinner will repent (turn away from wilful sin) and trust-believe in Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of that sin...if the homosexual-lesbian will repent and trust in Jesus as Lord, they will be forgiven and receive a new life and and a new destiny in Time and in Eternity (John 3:16; 1 John 1:9).




    smoothieDeeZeusAres42SkepticalOneHappy_Killbot
  • It is not a choice to be attracted to either gender. Nobody chose to have straight or gay attraction.


    @RickeyD Please learn to stay on topic... this is the question

    Is being gay or bisexual a choice?

    The question was not "is acting on gay or bisexual behaviors against god". Is being same-sex attracted a choice? That is the question. Contain yourself.
    why so serious?
  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 1667 Pts
    edited December 2019
    @YeshuaRedeemed

    Of course it's not a choice... People cannot choose to be attracted or like something, they just do... I hate the taste of fish, I had no say in the matter, I could not have chosen to like the taste of fish...
    smoothieYeshuaBought
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • @smoothie ; As I said...engaging in homosexual or lesbian sex is a "choice" of the will. NO ONE is born homosexual or lesbian...they choose to defile their bodies in that which is physiologically unnatural and spiritually sin. Are there sociological circumstances and psychological responses to those sociological circumstances that lead one to "choose" a lifestyle of sexual perversion:  Perhaps...but it remains a "choice."
    PlaffelvohfensmoothieZeusAres42SkepticalOneHappy_Killbot
  • RickeyD said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed ; Anyone who rejects God's moral law, the natural law, the law of conscience, the law of human physiological function and purpose, does so with knowledge and intent; therefore, engaging in the unnatural act of homosexuality or lesbianism is a choice to sin against our Creator's edicts prohibiting shame; a choice to sin against one's own body; a choice to reject the natural/moral law written upon our heart at conception by our Creator (Romans 2:15) and a rejection of  the commonsense understanding of human physiology, function in sexuality.

    Engaging in homosexuality - lesbianism is compromise with Satan's will to defile the Plan and purposes of God and His design from the family unit and the protective Covenant provided by Marriage between one-man and one-woman for life.

    Though homosexuality and lesbianism are sin against God and therefore worthy of death in Hell subsequent to the Judgment, God the Father has given the Son, Jesus Christ, to pay the penalty for sin IF the sinner will repent (turn away from wilful sin) and trust-believe in Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of that sin...if the homosexual-lesbian will repent and trust in Jesus as Lord, they will be forgiven and receive a new life and and a new destiny in Time and in Eternity (John 3:16; 1 John 1:9).




    It is not a choice to be gay or bisexu, and it is not a sin. When did you choose to be straight, and are you as perfect as OUR Lord Jesus?
  • @YeshuaRedeemed

    Of course it's not a choice... People cannot choose to be attracted or like something, they just do... I hate the taste of fish, I had no say in the matter, I could not have chosen to like the taste of fish...
    I agree.
    Plaffelvohfen
  • @RickeyD Your religion is more of a choice than anybody's sexuality. You say you patrolled LGBT areas for years but clearly you have never reached out to them to ask. Typical.

    I did not choose to be born in the USA, I did not choose to be white, I did not choose to have poor eyesight, nobody chooses to be same-sex attracted. Sexuality is extremely complicated and cannot be simplified into "choice"

    The only choice involved in sexuality is acting on it. People like you drive these people to boring celibacy or force them into opposite sex relationships that they despise. You are denying people their ability to love and be humans

    Why would they choose to be gay when people like you attack them in this way?
    Plaffelvohfen
    why so serious?
  • @smoothie ; Homosexuality is a choice. Nationality at birth and skin color are NOT a choice.  Homosexuality is a choice as much as a married man or woman makes the "choice" to engage in sex outside the marriage covenant.  Lust, sexual desire, are not unique to the perversity of the homosexual or the lesbian...it's a choice that a man makes to take another man's penis into his mouth or anus and it's a choice a woman makes to engage in oral sex with another woman...no one is forcing them or coercing them to make these "decisions."
    PlaffelvohfenYeshuaBoughtsmoothieHappy_KillbotZeusAres42
  • It's obviously a choice.

    First , sexual development is biological And biologically related

    Sexuality is a reproductive nature 

     psychologically the sexual development of a gender charecterizes sexual impulse and attraction.

    Children have to sexually mature.

    This is the if you can fallacy.

    Some people become sexually aroused when harming themselves 

    Such is not normal and underlies an issue that is not related to a biological precedence.

    Sexual behaviour can be associated with non-sexual activity

    Jesus is Lord.
    PlaffelvohfenHappy_KillbotZeusAres42
  • RickeyD said:
    @smoothie ; Homosexuality is a choice. Nationality at birth and skin color are NOT a choice.  Homosexuality is a choice as much as a married man or woman makes the "choice" to engage in sex outside the marriage covenant.  Lust, sexual desire, are not unique to the perversity of the homosexual or the lesbian...it's a choice that a man makes to take another man's penis into his mouth or anus and it's a choice a woman makes to engage in oral sex with another woman...no one is forcing them or coercing them to make these "decisions."
    No it isn't, and when did you choose to be straight?
  • It's obviously a choice.

    First , sexual development is biological And biologically related

    Sexuality is a reproductive nature 

     psychologically the sexual development of a gender charecterizes sexual impulse and attraction.

    Children have to sexually mature.

    This is the if you can fallacy.

    Some people become sexually aroused when harming themselves 

    Such is not normal and underlies an issue that is not related to a biological precedence.

    Sexual behaviour can be associated with non-sexual activity

    Jesus is Lord.
    No it isn't, and when did you choose to be straight?
    JesusisGod777888smoothiePlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • @YeshuaRedeemed

    Like I said sexuality is a reproductive nature.

    Gender, biologically determines sexual development.

    I have hands and I could kill someone, doesn't mean that ability is a natural trait.

    Sexuality is binary, and attraction isn't an excuse.

    Murderers are attracted to the idea of killing people, obviously, not all psychological conditions are natural.

    Jesus is God 
    YeshuaBoughtsmoothiePlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
  • @YeshuaRedeemed

    Like I said sexuality is a reproductive nature.

    Gender, biologically determines sexual development.

    I have hands and I could kill someone, doesn't mean that ability is a natural trait.

    Sexuality is binary, and attraction isn't an excuse.

    Murderers are attracted to the idea of killing people, obviously, not all psychological conditions are natural.

    Jesus is God 
    Like I said, homsexuality is not a choice. When did you choose to be straight?
    JesusisGod777888smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • smoothiesmoothie 377 Pts
    edited December 2019
    RickeyD said:
    it's a choice that a man makes to take another man's penis into his mouth or anus and it's a choice a woman makes to engage in oral sex with another woman...no one is forcing them or coercing them to make these "decisions."
    This is referencing same-sex sexual encounters. Sexuality is the ATTRACTION, not the act.
    Sexual encounters are not sexuality, they are a sexual encounter. The topic of this forum is not "is it a choice to have sex"

    It is a choice to have a sexual encounter, not a choice what your sexual attraction is. You fail to refute this in any way

    If you want to keep thinking about these same-sex encounters yourself then, by all means, I will not judge.
    Plaffelvohfen
    why so serious?
  • smoothie said:
    RickeyD said:
    it's a choice that a man makes to take another man's penis into his mouth or anus and it's a choice a woman makes to engage in oral sex with another woman...no one is forcing them or coercing them to make these "decisions."
    This is referencing same-sex sexual encounters. Sexuality is the ATTRACTION, not the act.
    Sexual encounters are not sexuality, they are a sexual encounter. The topic of this forum is not "is it a choice to have sex"

    It is a choice to have a sexual encounter, not a choice what your sexual attraction is. You fail to refute this in any way

    If you want to keep thinking about these same-sex encounters yourself then, by all means, I will not judge.
    It is not a choice to be gay.
    smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • @YeshuaRedeemed Yes, it is not a choice, but its a choice to have sex with anybody same-sex or not. That is where Rickey is confused.
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
    why so serious?
  • @YeshuaRedeemed

    Apparently you have a brick for a head.

    What is natural regarding sexuality is based on sexual nature, and sexual development.

    If people are naturally attracted to the opposite sex, then it is unnatural and fallacy to assert they can be possibly attracted to the opposite sex.

    I can tell you did not major in psychology.

    A person can become psychologically denatured

    Which  alters the natural qualities of a person's psychological condition.

    Homosexuality can not have any purpouse and can not be associated with nature or the nature of sexual activity and development which is reproduction.

    Sexual organs themselves develope to procreate.

    The fact homosexuals want children suggests they have a reproductive nature and determines they have made a choice to be attracted to same sex person's.

    Wanting to have sex is the basis by which, people try to suggest homosexuality is an attraction. A whore is a whore.

    Many people have sex with animals, doesn't make it natural, they are simply denatured because of perversion and sexual immorality.

    Jesus is God.


    Happy_KillbotsmoothieZeusAres42
  • RickeyD said:
    @smoothie ; As I said...engaging in homosexual or lesbian sex is a "choice" of the will. NO ONE is born homosexual or lesbian...they choose to defile their bodies in that which is physiologically unnatural and spiritually sin. Are there sociological circumstances and psychological responses to those sociological circumstances that lead one to "choose" a lifestyle of sexual perversion:  Perhaps...but it remains a "choice."
    Since you think being gay is a choice why don't you try and choose to be gay for a week? Test out your theory?
    smoothie



  • PlaffelvohfenPlaffelvohfen 1667 Pts
    edited December 2019
    smoothie said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed Yes, it is not a choice, but its a choice to have sex with anybody same-sex or not. That is where Rickey is confused.
    Oh, his confusion is a permanent state of mind I would surmise, seems to be a feature of the dude, not a bug...
    smoothieZeusAres42
    " Adversus absurdum, contumaciter ac ridens! "
  • RickeyDRickeyD 583 Pts
    edited December 2019

    "For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,  because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."  Romans 8:5-8 (NASB)


    "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he."  Proverbs 23:7a (NKJV)

    Often times, according to Scripture, homosexual and lesbian attraction manifests subsequent to a rejection of God's call on one's life...God gives them over to a debased, depraved mind to dishonor their bodies among themselves. This perversity was initiated by a "choice" to thumb your arrogant nose at God and you reaped what you sowed.

    Also, it's a choice to be attracted sexually to perversity by permitting your lust to override your wisdom and discernment, often times in rebellion to authority or societal demands for conformity. It is NOT possible for a man who pursues decency and morality and conformity to societal norms, mores, values, to find the hairy butt of another man sexually attractive while rejecting the body of the female. This is a choice...it is not natural!

    If one finds a person of the same-sex attractive, there is something psychologically, physiologically, not right that can be traced to either childhood trauma in the home, school or a form of demonic influence...but attraction is attraction because you permit it to be attractive when the attraction is aberrant, illogical, unnatural.

    You have desired and chosen to be attracted to that which you intuitively know is perverse and rebellion to the natural law and law of physiological normalcy...far too often, it is the rebellion to normalcy and societal norms-mores-values and internal discernment/wisdom that ingratiates the flesh and manifests in aberrant lust/pleasure in an addictive, diminishing returns, obsessive-compulsive deathstyle...it is the rebellion to normalcy and authority that elicits endorphin-type pleasure that is addictive and subject to the psychological obsessive-compulsive disorder resulting from diminishing returns.

    Homosexual lust is a behavior that is rooted in bad choices; both spiritually and carnally.






    smoothiePlaffelvohfenZeusAres42


  • RickeyD said:

    "For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,  because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."  Romans 8:5-8 (NASB)


    "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he."  Proverbs 23:7a (NKJV)

    Often times, according to Scripture, homosexual and lesbian attraction manifests subsequent to a rejection of God's call on one's life...God gives them over to a debased, depraved mind to dishonor their bodies among themselves. This perversity was initiated by a "choice" to thumb your arrogant nose at God and you reaped what you sowed.

    Also, it's a choice to be attracted sexually to perversity by permitting your lust to override your wisdom and discernment, often times in rebellion to authority or societal demands for conformity. It is NOT possible for a man who pursues decency and morality and conformity to societal norms, mores, values, to find the hairy butt of another man sexually attractive while rejecting the body of the female. This is a choice...it is not natural!

    If one finds a person of the same-sex attractive, there is something psychologically, physiologically, not right that can be traced to either childhood trauma in the home, school or a form of demonic influence...but attraction is attraction because you permit it to be attractive when the attraction is aberrant, illogical, unnatural.

    You have desired and chosen to be attracted to that which you intuitively know is perverse and rebellion to the natural law and law of physiological normalcy...far too often, it is the rebellion to normalcy and societal norms-mores-values and internal discernment/wisdom that ingratiates the flesh and manifests in aberrant lust/pleasure in an addictive, diminishing returns, obsessive-compulsive deathstyle...it is the rebellion to normalcy and authority that elicits endorphin-type pleasure that is addictive and subject to the psychological obsessive-compulsive disorder resulting from diminishing returns.

    Homosexual lust is a behavior that is rooted in bad choices; both spiritually and carnally.







    smoothiePlaffelvohfen



  • smoothiesmoothie 377 Pts
    edited December 2019
    @RickeyD I am gay, I have never found women attractive my entire life ever since puberty. I was also never abused in my entire life. I also have a loving mother and father (also christian). I was even raised in a conservative state and baptized. 

    Your stereotypes are inaccurate, and there is nothing wrong with being attracted to the same sex. People like you will never understand LGBT because you are blinded by your hate which you justify with your book. Jesus is ashamed of you. Your experience only proves this further, you were surrounded by LGBT for 30 years yet were still blinded by this hate? Now that is extreme...

    You advocate for societal norms, so your version would probably be beating your wife and not letting them vote or drive right? Why are you such enslaved by society? This is a free country, be your own independant self.

    You call me undecent and immoral, and even not wise? For something I didn't even choose? By your logic then eating and drinking is a mental disorder (which homosexuality still isn't, confirmed since 1970's)
    PlaffelvohfenZeusAres42
    why so serious?
  • @smoothie ; No, you have chosen to live in sin.
    smoothieZeusAres42
  • "Choice" is an interesting concept. People have far more choices than most realise, and often making a certain choice requires a lot of prior work to make it viable.

    For example, suppose you are in love with someone. Can you make a choice to "unlove" them? Your first reaction might be to say, "Of course not; I cannot change how I feel about that person". Is this really the case, however? Yes, you cannot just say, "I no longer love them", and suddenly stop loving them. However, you can take a certain series of actions that will ultimately shatter that love. For example, you may start intentionally looking for flaws in that person and concentrating on those flaws. You may also start treating them unfairly, so they are more likely to treat you harshly in response as well, diminishing their appeal in your eyes. With certain (arguably destructive) actions, you can, indeed, effectively "unlove" that person eventually.

    It is not a stretch to assume that this applies to sexuality as well, to some extent. I have talked to a Japanese guy who was naturally bisexual, however could not handle the discrimination against gays in the Japanese society back in 90-s, before they experienced their own sexual revolution - and after conditioning himself for years to not like other guys, he got to the state where he did not experience sexual attraction towards men. Perhaps he was tricking himself, or perhaps not - but he did reach his goal, one way or another.

    I have also recently thought that, perhaps, there is no such thing as "gay" or "straight". Perhaps we are all naturally pansexual, but due to various influences and seemingly unrelated random events somehow develop strong preferences. A case in point is the observation that, in general, the more open the society is to sexual minorities, the higher the sexual minority population there is (obviously, with correction to the fact that people in less open societies are less likely to admit their non-traditional sexuality). I certainly know that I was attracted to both guys and girls when I was a kid, but then at some point somehow I developed a very strong preference for female gender, and it seems quite likely to me that gays being harshly ostracised in the society I grew up in played a major role here.

    At the same time, it would be ludicrous to claim that being gay/bisexual is purely a choice. How many people make this choice, "Okay, I am going to be gay from now on. Enough being straight"? That is not how it works. We are conditioned by our environment, by our biology, by our life choices and so on. It is very rare that we are conscious of the sources of our sexual preferences, let alone able to change them at will.

    To me, it seems that the real choice is not in what your preferences are, but in what you are doing about them. The first step towards being able to make any choices at all is rejection of these labels altogether. Do not call yourself "gay" or "straight" or "bisexual". Just see who you like and be open to all possibilities, regardless of gender, age, race and so on. Even if you have always identified as straight, you never know if tomorrow you meet a person of your gender to whom you will suddenly feel strong sexual attraction. Ignore what the society says and look at how you personally feel in each individual case.
    Do not assume identity; do the opposite and fragment your identity infinitely. You are an individual; that is all there is. Do not restrict yourself by any arbitrary labels, especially when you cannot know for certain that those labels apply to you.

    Finally, I will just say that whether being a gay/bisexual is a choice or not is absolutely irrelevant in practical terms. You will never have to "force" yourself to experience sexual attraction towards someone, barring some unusual sci-fi scenarios. Just go with your current preferences and make the best out of them.
    smoothie
  • smoothiesmoothie 377 Pts
    edited December 2019
    @RickeyD I notice how your words are getting fewer as you find fewer and fewer stereotypes for my homosexuality. Isn't it funny when you find somebody who is a living contradiction to your opinions you kept for your entire life?
    why so serious?

  • Sorry dude, but the Jews were rigt:

    Who Was Jesus?

    Virtually all of what is known about the historical Jesus comes from the four
    New Testament Gospels — Matthew, Mark, Luke and John — which scholars believe were written several decades after Jesus’ death. While there is no archaeological or other physical evidence for his existence, most scholars agree that Jesus did exist and that he was born sometime in the decade before the Common Era and crucified sometime between 26-36 CE (the years when the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, ruled Judea). He lived at a time when the Roman Empire ruled what is now Israel and sectarianism was rife, with major tensions among Jews not only over how much to cooperate with the Romans but also how to interpret . It was also, for some, a restive time when displeasure with Roman policies, as well as with the Temple high priests, bred hopes for a messianic redeemer who would throw off the foreign occupiers and restore Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.
    Was Jesus the Messiah? The question “was Jesus the messiah?” requires a prior question: “What is the definition of messiah?” The Prophets (Nevi’im), who wrote hundreds of years before Jesus’ birth, envisioned a messianic age as as a period of universal peace, in which war and hunger are eradicated, and humanity accepts God’s sovereignty. By the first century, the view developed that the messianic age would witness a general resurrection of the dead, the in-gathering of all the Jews, including the 10 lost tribes, to the land of Israel, a final judgment and universal peace. Some Jews expected the messiah to be a descendant of King David (based on an interpretation of God’s promise to David in 2 Samuel 7 of an eternal kingdom). The Dead Sea Scrolls speak of two messiahs: one a military leader and the other a priest. Still other Jews expected the prophet Elijah, or the angel Michael, or Enoch, or any number of other figures to usher in the messianic age.
    Stories in the Gospels about Jesus healing the sick, raising the dead, and proclaiming the imminence of the kingdom of heaven suggest that his followers regarded him as appointed by God to bring about the messianic age. More than 1,000 years after Jesus’ crucifixion, the medieval sage Maimonides (also known as Rambam) laid out in his Mishneh Torah specific things Jews believe the messiah must accomplish in order to confirm his identity — among them restoring the kingdom of David to its former glory, achieving victory in battle against Israel’s enemies, rebuilding the temple (which the Romans destroyed in 70 CE) and ingathering the exiles to the land of Israel. “And if he’s not successful with this, or if he is killed, it’s known that he is not the one that was promised by the Torah,” Maimonides wrote.
    Are There Jewish Texts that Reference Jesus? Yes. The first-century Jewish historian Josephus mentions Jesus, although the major reference in his Antiquities of the Jews appears to have been edited and augmented by Christian scribes. There are a few references in the Talmud to “Yeshu,” which many authorities understand as referring to Jesus. The tractate Sanhedrin originally recorded that Yeshu the Nazarene was hung on the eve of Passover for the crime of leading Jews astray. This reference was excised from later versions of the Talmud, most likely because of its use by Christians as a pretext for persecution. In the medieval period, a work called Toledot Yeshu presented an alternative history of Jesus that rejects cardinal Christian beliefs. The work, which is not part of the canon of rabbinic literature, is not widely known. Maimonides, in his Mishneh Torah, describes Jesus as the failed messiah foreseen by the prophet Daniel. Rather than redeeming Israel, Maimonides writes, Jesus caused Jews to be killed and exiled, changed the Torah and led the world to worship a false God. Special thanks to Amy-Jill Levine, University Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies at Vanderbilt Divinity School and College of Arts and Sciences, for her assistance with this article. To read this article, “What Do Jews Believe About Jesus?” in Spanish (leer en Español), click here.
    Sorry dude but it looks like you are following the false religion. What you need to do is become spiritually alive and then you will accept in your heart that the Jews were right.


    https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/what-do-jews-believe-about-jesus/






  • Since you think being gay is a choice why don't you try and choose to be gay for a week? Test out your theory?

    Happy_KillbotsmoothiePlaffelvohfenYeshuaBought



  • @JesusisGod777888 Let's see if I can sum up your arguments here:

    The sexual organs of gendered species such as humans only work if there is a sperm and an egg donor, therefore a man and a woman are required to have children. If someone is homosexual, they will not reproduce because being attracted to the same sex they will not have kids, and nature would slowly work out those tendencies from the gene pool.

    Homosexuals are relatively common, so any genetic explanation for their existence is unlikely. We can thus conclude that this must be due to conditioning post birth during sexual maturity. There is no use for homosexuality in the continuation of the human race. Therefore sexual orientation is a choice because it is separated from the natural development of the individual.

    Would you say this is an adequate summation?

    Here are some things to consider:

    It is true, that sexual intercourse is required for procreation in nature. It is not true however, that sexual intercourse is absolutely required for procreation.

    There are plenty of examples of people enjoying activities that do not directly relate to reproduction. For example, some people who enjoy pain in a sexual way. Approximately 1 in 5 male adults has a foot fetish. Some people are asexual, meaning they are totally uninterested in sex.

    Thus we can conclude that sex isn't just for procreation, it's also for pleasure and sexual desires are not binary, they are very complex.

    The brain and the body develop separately. The genitals develop on a growing fetus are fully developed by the 9th week. The brain and nervous system are not fully developed until the 33rd week. If during that difference in time, there is a chemical imbalance the brain may believe that it has the opposite gender and the brain will form with that assumption.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19403051

    Thus we can conclude that homosexuality may not be tied to the genes of the individual, but rather to the development process of a growing fetus.

    Homosexuality may play an important role in the social structure of many social animals. Homosexual behaviors have been observed in many different animals species, making it a common staple of nature. http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150206-are-there-any-homosexual-animals
    A homosexual male may develop the body of a man, and it has been shown that homosexual men tend to have higher emotional intelligence than straight men. If they chose to live the way other women did in the tribe, they would basically serve as a deterrent to aggressive men, preventing rape and increasing social cohesion in the tribe. It is not beneficial to the Homosexual individual, but it is beneficial to the mother and the tribe as a whole.

    The bible does not condemn homosexuality as a sin, all cases could be interpreted to means is do not forcefully sodomize someone (think prison showers ) That is a sin.
    MayCaesarsmoothie
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @smoothie ;  You have opted to live a life of futility and make every attempt to justify your immorality and your path to death in sin and Hell by rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord.  You are spiritually ill and unless your repent and fervently seek Jesus as Lord for the mediation of your sin, you have no hope of life in God's Kingdom but you will die in your sin and die in Hell. I have muted approximately 3-5 regular atheists in this forum and you won't be long either. I have told you the Truth and my Lord never commanded that I argue the Gospel. You have a nice life.


    ZeusAres42smoothiePlaffelvohfen
  • @RickeyD Mute the hard truth when you can't argue it, typical. I contradict your opinionated conclusions that have no place in science or debates in general when you construct your own reality based off of your teachings and ignore reality when it is presented. I guess I'll see you in Hell then, where you will undoubtedly end up with me :)
    Plaffelvohfen
    why so serious?
  • smoothie said:
    @YeshuaRedeemed Yes, it is not a choice, but its a choice to have sex with anybody same-sex or not. That is where Rickey is confused.
    Fair enough.
  • RickeyD said:
    @smoothie ;  You have opted to live a life of futility and make every attempt to justify your immorality and your path to death in sin and Hell by rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord.  You are spiritually ill and unless your repent and fervently seek Jesus as Lord for the mediation of your sin, you have no hope of life in God's Kingdom but you will die in your sin and die in Hell. I have muted approximately 3-5 regular atheists in this forum and you won't be long either. I have told you the Truth and my Lord never commanded that I argue the Gospel. You have a nice life.


    I did not choose to be bisexual.
  • RickeyD said:
    @smoothie ; No, you have chosen to live in sin.
    Reported for hate speech.
  • smoothie said:
    @RickeyD I am gay, I have never found women attractive my entire life ever since puberty. I was also never abused in my entire life. I also have a loving mother and father (also christian). I was even raised in a conservative state and baptized. 

    Your stereotypes are inaccurate, and there is nothing wrong with being attracted to the same sex. People like you will never understand LGBT because you are blinded by your hate which you justify with your book. Jesus is ashamed of you. Your experience only proves this further, you were surrounded by LGBT for 30 years yet were still blinded by this hate? Now that is extreme...

    You advocate for societal norms, so your version would probably be beating your wife and not letting them vote or drive right? Why are you such enslaved by society? This is a free country, be your own independant self.

    You call me undecent and immoral, and even not wise? For something I didn't even choose? By your logic then eating and drinking is a mental disorder (which homosexuality still isn't, confirmed since 1970's)
    There is nothing wrong with being gay. God blesses same sex couples.
    smoothieHappy_KillbotJesusisGod777888
  • @YeshuaRedeemed

    No he doesn't it plainly states in the Bible that a man is to leave his father and mother and be joined to a wife. 

    God created them man and women.

    Sexual immorality is plainly defined in the Bible and plainly states homosexuality is an abomination to Jesus Christ the God of creation.

    Second all studies, psychological and biological are based on biology and psychological development.

    Studies make it obvious, that psychologically sexuality is a reproductive nature and sexual impulse is based on the desire to procreate.

    Sexual immorality is homosexuality, altering qualities or sexual impulses.

    You can also choose what you are attracted to just by ideation.

    It's how people develope fetishes.

    Jesus is Lord and your absolutely wrong. I could care less how that makes you feel.
    ZeusAres42smoothie
  • @YeshuaRedeemed

    No he doesn't it plainly states in the Bible that a man is to leave his father and mother and be joined to a wife. 

    God created them man and women.

    Sexual immorality is plainly defined in the Bible and plainly states homosexuality is an abomination to Jesus Christ the God of creation.

    Second all studies, psychological and biological are based on biology and psychological development.

    Studies make it obvious, that psychologically sexuality is a reproductive nature and sexual impulse is based on the desire to procreate.

    Sexual immorality is homosexuality, altering qualities or sexual impulses.

    You can also choose what you are attracted to just by ideation.

    It's how people develope fetishes.

    Jesus is Lord and your absolutely wrong. I could care less how that makes you feel.
    RickeyDZeusAres42Plaffelvohfensmoothie
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 3423 Pts
    edited December 2019
    What if we uncover evidence one day that Jesus was homosexual? After all, we have no evidence of him ever being interested in women. And there was this peculiar story in 1977, when one magazine published a story about a Roman centurion giving Jesus a blowjob, and the magazine was suddenly banned from publishing anything for a few months... Obviously god was trying to hide something!

    Imagine how many Christian fundamentalists will lose their minds, if historians learn that Jesus was gay/bisexual. Oh my...
    Happy_KillbotPlaffelvohfen
  • @JesusisGod777888
    Are you afraid to contest with me?

    I can show you scientific evidence that sexuality is not always based on the desire to procreate.

    https://www.livescience.com/33525-foot-fetishes-toe-suck-fairy.html

    If you believe that sexual fetishes are truly based on ideation, then that means that everyone who has some any kink chose that for themselves.

    I might propose a third possibility, that sexuality isn't a choice because it is unconscious.

    Choice implies free will.

    If this is true, then it means that harassing individuals for their sexual preferences is not only unproductive, but potentially harmful.

    Homosexuality is not defined as immoral by the bible, unless you specifically decide to make it say that.

    I have yet to meet someone where judging them based on something they are is more accurate than judging them based on who they are.

    Is there any circumstance where this is not truth?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @JesusisGod777888
    P.S. You forgot to put "Jesus is Lord" at the end of your last post...

    I think you are going to hell now for being a bad Christian.
    Plaffelvohfen
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    Look, it’s simply not the matter of religion whatsoever, it doesn’t matter who you are, what race, religion, hair color, etc., sexuality is definitely a choice, no ifs ands or buts. As proof I will simply leave you with the dictionary definition of the word. “Sexuality - A person’s sexual orientation or preference.
  • @PG_Void
    PG_Void said:
    @Happy_Killbot

    Look, it’s simply not the matter of religion whatsoever, it doesn’t matter who you are, what race, religion, hair color, etc., sexuality is definitely a choice, no ifs ands or buts. As proof I will simply leave you with the dictionary definition of the word. “Sexuality - A person’s sexual orientation or preference.
    In this case, it is about religion because @JesusisGod777888 made an argument from religion, in particular:
    @YeshuaRedeemed
    God created them man and women.

    Sexual immorality is plainly defined in the Bible and plainly states homosexuality is an abomination to Jesus Christ the God of creation.
    Therefore I must contend with this interpretation of scripture
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I don't want to argue semantics, because everyone loses when you argue semantics... 

    preference =/= choice.

    "Preference noun: 1.a greater liking for one alternative over another or others."

    Sexuality is also defined as: "capacity for sexual feelings."

    or

    "expression of sexual receptivity or interest especially when excessive"

    No where in these definitions is any implication of choice, it's only true if you cherry pick an example, make a leap in logic, and declare your point valid.

    Linguistic arguments carry very little weight, but that is not the subject of this thread, so lets never talk about it again.
    smoothiePlaffelvohfenJesusisGod777888
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    There are two terms that are based on the DSM-IV that explain sexuality aswell as denatured sexuality.

    1.Sexual Association

    2. Sexual maturity

    Sexual behavior motivated by self-interest Sexual or sexual desire to experience pleasure, is a form of sexual sexual association (denatured psychological response to hedonism) 


    First youre a moron arguing that homosexual are born as homosexuals for the following

    Sex hormones are responsible for driving sexual development, and develope genetalia, which impact psychological response to hormones that are responsible for a person's sex drive.

    All sex hormones are associated with reproduction ,a and develope reproductive  stimulateorgans. The  systemshormones reproductivet develope organs are the cause of sexual impulse so if they develope reproductive organs they psychological nature a person according to gender.


    All hormones that exist in homosexuals are reproductive and sexually nature them the same way they do a heterosexual.

    Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) GnRH is a neuropeptide (a decapeptide) that is produced in the hypothalamic surge and tonic centres

    Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) 

    Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) ...


    Oxytocin (OT) ...


    Progesterone (P4) ...


    Inhibin. ...


    Prostaglandin F. ...


    Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (hCG) ...


    Placental Lactogen (PL)


    Second religion is defined as deep contemplation or thought, 


    1. Thoughts are not a source of knowledge and therefore

    2. Are not based on what someone is aware of and as a result religion is not based on what is known


    Since Christianity is not based on events it's not defined as religion or belief so shut your mouth. Jesus is God and you're a moron who has no biological expertise.


    Happy_Killbotsmoothie
  • @Happy_Killbot

    Don't know what happened to my last post or why the sentences rearranged themselves

    @Happy_Killbot ;

    There are two terms that are based on the DSM-IV that explain sexuality, aswell as denatured sexuality.

    1.Sexual Association


    2. Sexual maturity


    Sexual behavior, motivated by self-interest  or the sexual desire, to experience pleasure, is a form of sexual association (denatured psychological response to hedonism) 

    First , youre a moron arguing that homosexual are born as homosexuals for the following:


    Sex hormones, are responsible for driving sexual development, and develope genetalia, which impact psychological response to the hormones that are responsible for a person's sex drive.


    All sex hormones, are associated with reproduction , and develope and stimulate reproductive organs. The hormones responsible for reproductive systems and their development  are the cause of sexual impulse

    so if they develope reproductive organs,  they psychological nature a person according to gender.

    All hormones that exist in homosexuals are reproductive and sexually nature them the same way they do a heterosexual.


    Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) GnRH is a neuropeptide (a decapeptide) that is produced in the hypothalamic surge and tonic centres


    Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) 


    Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) ...

    Oxytocin (OT) ...

    Progesterone (P4) ...

    Inhibin. ...

    Prostaglandin F. ...

    Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (hCG) ...

    Placental Lactogen (PL)

    Second religion is defined as deep contemplation or thought, 

    1. Thoughts are not a source of knowledge and therefore


    2. Are not based on what someone is aware of and as a result religion is not based on what is known




  • @Happy_Killbot

    Your argument is based on fallacy as a result of the argument that sexual association defines sexual disorders that are self-caused.

    The same way it would be unnatural for a person to want to have sex with a trashcan.
    Happy_Killbotsmoothie
  • @Happy_Killbot

    The just because you can argument is fallacy because it is not associated with nature, the natural tendency and qualities that define normal behaviour.

    Reproductive organs define natural qualities and therefore determine the natural sexuality that is based on cognitive development and natural sexual association.

    Jesus Christ is God.
    Happy_Killbotsmoothie
  • @JesusisGod777888

    First off, the  DSM-IV has been outdated and replaced with the  DSM-5, thus it is no longer considered accurate or used in any respected establishment.

    To quote the literature directly: "There are minor changes in the chapter 'sexual dysfunctions'. The content of the chapters on 'gender dysphoria' and 'paraphilic disorders' differs substantially from the content of the sections on these subjects in DSM-IV. In the section on gender dysphoria the term 'sex' has been replaced by 'gender' and the term 'identity disorder' has been dropped. With regard to paraphilias, a distinction is now made between a paraphilia and a paraphilic disorder. The DSM-5 makes a new distinction between pathology (paraphilic disorder) on the one hand and other unusual or unconventional non-pathological sexual behavior on the other hand. In the DSM-5 the highly relevant clinical concept 'hypersexuality' has still not been incorporated as a separate category."

    Any argument made from the DSM-IV can be thrown out on account of it is no longer considered relevant.

    "Sex hormones, are responsible for driving sexual development, and develop genetalia, which impact psychological response to the hormones that are responsible for a person's sex drive."

    I have provided a study which disproves this, on account of the sexual organs and brain develop at radically different times, and are subject to conditioning during the fetus's development. 

    "Second religion is defined as deep contemplation or thought, 

    1. Thoughts are not a source of knowledge and therefore


    2. Are not based on what someone is aware of and as a result religion is not based on what is known"


    I don't think @RickeyD would agree, but I will use your definition anyways, because you undermine your own position by doing so. 

    If you do not think thoughts are a source of knowledge, I guess that is why you never learned anything.

    If religion is not based on what is known, then it has no bearing on this or any discussion that isn't strictly about the religion in question. Your response does not contend with my statement, and is not relevant to this debate and will no further be discussed.

    JesusisGod777888YeshuaBoughtsmoothie
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @JesusisGod777888 P.S You forgot to tag at the end of your post "Jesus is Lord"

    You are definitely going to hell.
    smoothie
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    Your argument is based on fallacy as a result of the argument that sexual association defines sexual disorders that are self-caused.

    The same way it would be unnatural for a person to want to have sex with a trashcan.
    That is not my argument. Like a gentleman, you repay steel with straw. real smooth.
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    The just because you can argument is fallacy because it is not associated with nature, the natural tendency and qualities that define normal behaviour.

    Reproductive organs define natural qualities and therefore determine the natural sexuality that is based on cognitive development and natural sexual association.

    Jesus Christ is God.
    Some people are hermaphrodite. If it is as black and white as you claim, what natural sexuality would these individuals ought to have?
    At some point in the distant past, the universe went through a phase of cosmic inflation,
    Stars formed, planets coalesced, and on at least one of them life took root.
    Through a long process of evolution this life 
    developed into the human race.
    Humans conquered fire, built complex societies and advanced technology .

    All of that so we can argue about nothing.
  • @Happy_Killbot

    the amygdala is fully developed at birth, and is responsible for sexual arousal and sexual stimulation.

    Apparently you can not rationalize that sexual maturity effects
    sexual behaviors in children two to five years of age are of a greater variety and are more common.

    You have caused yourself to lose the argument suggesting that children are unable to make sexual associations until they fully sexually mature.

    Therefore the nature of their sexuality is not based on psychological responses.

    That would mean that sexual development is the cause of psychological association and sexual arousal or attraction.
    Happy_Killbotsmoothie
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