Does the Government possess the right to legislate abortion as murder?

YeshuaBought

No. The government does not have the right to my body. i will abort if I become pregnant, and so will other women. Also, you don't have the right to make debates about me. if you don't stop, i will sue you, for defamtion of character. Libel is not a right.

RickeyD

@YeshuaBought ; You are sick spiritually and mentally and you are demonically possessed or heavily demonically influenced. Not only do you lie to God, to others, yourself, as you claim to be a "gay Christian," but you advocate for the murder of babies in the womb. This is demonic.

smoothie

Rickey, we understood you the first time! You don't need to repeat yourself I am here for you

No matter what anybody calls a fetus it cannot be an american citizen, first and foremost. There is nothing for the government to protect, there is no murder of american blood.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-founding-fathers-knew-a-fetus-is-not-an-american-person

RickeyD

@smoothie ; Your homosexuality has infected your brain and your soul....

YeshuaBought

RickeyD said:

@YeshuaBought ; You are sick spiritually and mentally and you are demonically possessed or heavily demonically influenced. Not only do you lie to God, to others, yourself as you claim to be a "gay Christian," but you advocate for the murder of babies in the womb. This is demonic.

The libel ends now. if you don't knock it off, I will call my attorny, and take you to court. You don't have the right to make fun of my disability, and you don't have the right to say what I do with my body. Prolife is prorape.

MayCaesar

In my opinion, the government has no rights, not even the right to exist. It is a fundamentally coercive institution that acts solely through threat of violence. People have bought into the idea that the government is a necessary evil at worst, and a force of good at best - but, really, it is a mafia cartel in everything but name.

If the government is to exist, however, it has to be very small and have exactly one function: to protect people's individual rights. And restricting abortion in any way does not serve that function, hence should not take place.

smoothie

@RickeyD Rickey, an infection would be such a terrible thing but I assure you I am fine. It is so great to hear how much you care for me, such a sign of a good friend

YeshuaBought

MayCaesar said:

In my opinion, the government has no rights, not even the right to exist. It is a fundamentally coercive institution that acts solely through threat of violence. People have bought into the idea that the government is a necessary evil at worst, and a force of good at best - but, really, it is a mafia cartel in everything but name.

If the government is to exist, however, it has to be very small and have exactly one function: to protect people's individual rights. And restricting abortion in any way does not serve that function, hence should not take place.

I agree. Liberty is a basic human right.

rosends

The government is a convenience we all agree to in order to ensure that we can live together in a society. It imposes (by our willfully subjecting ourselves to its authority) rules which ensure the cohesive social fabric and which are determined by the contract we agree to live under.

The motivation for particular rules is driven by the agreed upon role and extent of governmental influence on our lives -- a central dividing line between those who see government as having only the right to ensure my liberties as an individuals and those who see government as having the responsibility to safeguard a larger, external set of moral rules.

If you believe that individual liberty is paramount and that government governs best when, in terms of the individual at least, it governs least, then things like drug use, suicide and abortion, functions of the body on the self, would not be subject to government intrusion (though one could argue that the self, under a certain age, could be regulated). Speed limits, murder and food safety would be subject to government law because they impact others' rights to live safely and one person has no right to impose on the liberty to live of another.

The grey area would be where the impact on the "other" in unclear, either because the impact is hard to to discern (must I wear a seat belt if my flying out of my car might cause others to swerve and harm them?) or because the other's existence is not clear (is a fetus an "other" or not).

So the problem is two fold - it revolves around the understood function of government vis-a-vis the individual vs. collective, and it still demands subtleties be ironed out even in the life of the individual.

Happy_Killbot

@rosends Those are some very good points, but I think we can actually do much better than that through deliberately working to guarantee such freedoms, primarily through the development of technology and engineering. Personally, I do not like either side of the abortion debate (pro-life, pro-choice) because I see them both as morally wrong, and when the call has to be made it is damage control (acting to limit the damage of an incident or mistake). My official stance on the abortion issue is one I have dubbed "pro-freedom" and I assert that the solution to the abortion issue lies not in determining the legal status of the abortion, but in effectively decoupling sex from childbirth so that no one gets pregnant unless they want to.

Typically, this would take the form of contraceptive technologies, in particular a male-equivalent birth control and anti-STD medication.

These things would serve as an added layer of protection that would dramatically decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies down to statistically insignificant levels, effectively if not entirely eliminating the problem.

Dee

Does the Government possess the right to legislate abortion as murder?

The government should have no rights in the matter , it’s still a decision for a woman to make anything else is tyranny 

YeshuaBought

Dee said:

Does the Government possess the right to legislate abortion as murder?

The government should have no rights in the matter , it’s still a decision for a woman to make anything else is tyranny 

I agree with you.

RickeyD

@YeshuaBought ;  Have your attorney contact me....and get some help.

RickeyD

@YeshuaBought ; Anyone who advocates or supports the mutilation of babies in the womb is either mentally ill, demonically possessed or both.

RickeyD

@YeshuaBought ; @Dee Anyone who advocates or supports the mutilation of babies in the womb is either mentally ill, demonically possessed or both.

RickeyD

@Happy_Killbot Anyone who advocates or supports the mutilation of babies in the womb is either mentally ill, demonically possessed or both.

@Happy_Killbot ;

RickeyD

@MayCaesar ; Anyone who advocates for or supports the mutilation of babies in the womb is mentally ill, demonically possessed or both. There is no greater violence than murdering a child.

smoothie

@RickeyD Rickey, you don't need to repeat yourself, we get your point! You certainly have an interesting point of view. We should cherish such interesting ideas.

RickeyD

@smoothie ; Thank you

smoothie

@RickeyD You are welcome, remember to love thy neighbor as thyself!

Dee

@RickeyD

" I value you as a person and feel we have a deep connection....do you feel the same way?

RickeyD

@Dee ; I value you as a creation in the image of the Living God. We are two very different people and I do not honor your worldview and your god, Satan.

Dee

@RickeyD

Thank you so much Ricky for that beautiful message 

RickeyD

@Dee ; You're welcome sweetheart.

YeshuaBought

RickeyD said:

@Dee ; You're welcome sweetheart.

Aw! You too. I need prayer, as liberals are bullying me, on Facebook. I know we don't always see eye to eye, but I do value religious liberty.

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD I'm actually not advocating mutilation of babies.

I'm advocating for a super-secret 3rd option that (sadly) basically no one knows exists.

You can not abort babies that are not conceived, what I propose is to put technological barriers in place to limit conception and STI's. The end result is the decoupling of sex from pregnancy, meaning that people get pregnant when they decide they want to be pregnant.

Dee

@RickeyD

Thank you so much , it just shows the old saying is true that one knows a real Christian through their love 

RickeyD

@Happy_Killbot ; I agree with you. Responsible adults should take control of their ability to procreate/birth control, preventative measures should be used in accordance with one's needs and plans for their family. Subsequent to our third-child, I had a vasectomy as my wife and I felt that we could provide for and educate the children given us and that we should not overextend ourselves and our responsibilities. 

Happy_Killbot

@RickeyD One of the things I advocate for is the production of drugs/and contraceptives that don't exist, in particular a male-equivalent birth control (There are ongoing trials for such medications at the moment) The widespread adoption of which would reduce unwanted pregnancies from hundreds of thousands to just thousands, eliminating the abortion issue by making it statistically insignificant.

If people are more likely to die from the common cold than get pregnant without the desire to be, the problem is effectively solved.

RickeyD

@Dee ; There are some "four to five" forms of "love" in the Greek Scriptures. My love for you is Agape: agape or selfless love. This was a love extended to all people, whether family members or distant strangers. Agape was later translated into Latin as caritas, which is the origin of our word “charity.”  I love you as God commands that I love because you are created in His image and you are therefore of value and worth.