Do you know what confirms my faith in God? The lack of a moral stance in non believers.

Happy_Killbot

If you need god to be moral you are not a good person.

smoothie

How is a lack of your "morals" in other people prove a god exists? What kind of stretch is that?

???????

I love how you take the high ground of "common sense" yet your version of it is hardly common sense when you reject all evidence and abuse logical fallacies. I'm not even gonna begin to tackle your arguments when most of them have already have been disproven by factual real-world evidence and you simply choose to ignore our input, especially your weirdo claims about homosexuality with no evidence. That's not even a debate, keep preaching and trolling, thanks though.

MayCaesar

"Many people have beliefs that god allegedly condemns, hence god exists"? That is about as backwards a logic as it gets.

People grow up in different environments and have different anatomy, hence they come to different conclusions. On the other hand, if had all been designed by god, it would make more sense for us all to be more similar. Why would the god on purpose create humans that hold such, according to you, evil positions?

To me, your post simply illustrates how illogical most believers are. You believe in god based on the most obscure snippets of logic imaginable. Your logic is not even that bad, compared to some, and yet it still makes little sense, if any.

Finally, allow me to completely blow your mind... There are Christians that support LGBT and abortion rights. Sorry, I know I may have just caused an existential crisis in you, but this is a necessary medical procedure.

GnosticChristian

@We_are_accountable ;

"Refusing to admit the obvious suggests a war going on between good and evil. Good and evil should not be byproducts of evolution."

Yet it obviously is as it appears even in the youngest babies.



I am not an atheist, but your main complaint seems to be that non-believers cannot discern good from evil the way we religionists can.

I find the opposite to be true as I often try to engage the religious into discussions on morality and they just run for the hills.

Lets see what your legs do.

The bible has god doing many things in scriptures that some find evil.

Lets list a few and see if you and I can agree as to them being good or evil at all times for either humans to do or god to do.

Before I start, do you allow god to break his laws and if so, do you give man the same leeway?

I mean the heavier crimes like killing or mass murder.

How about discrimination against any group or individual without a just cause?


Regards
DL

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable
Alright, lets go ahead and throw each component of your argument into the meat grinder, shall we?

If God does not exist, why is it that non believers seldom speak out on the obvious harm caused from irresponsible lifestyles?

The short answer is that non believers do, sometimes more frequently than Christians. Consider that there are more vegan atheists than vegan Christians according to a 2017 study. https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/Polls/2019_adults_veg.htm

 I have yet to meet a non believer with the simple common sense intelligence and security to admit the damage caused by irresponsible lifestyles, and having the guts to speak out. I'm not talking about judging people by name or creating moral laws, etc.

I'm talking about simply speaking out on the importance of common sense morality. America once possessed this common sense before the anti God no fault Progressive movement came along.

I don't know what Christianity and morality have to do with each other, given that the highest rates of violent crime all occur in countries that are deeply religious, and within countries the most religious areas also have the highest crime rates. It is simply a myth that religion makes people more moral. Similarly, the number of incarcerated criminals who identify as being atheist or non-belief are much lower than the national average, suggesting that atheists are better or no less moral than theists.

Why is it that true Christians can only see the inhumanity of No Restriction abortions? I'm not talking about phony Atheists who claim to be against No Restriction abortions, yet elect Democrats who vow to keep it legal.

First off, there is no such thing as a "true Christian" all 33,000 denominations have equal value. That value is nothing.

Why is it that Christians can only see the obvious unnatural nature of Homosexuality? The Science of Biology teaches the obvious design of our bodies. Why do non believers stay silent when LGBT acgivists force their agendas on every State?

Homosexuality is perfectly natural. Unless you are a top psychologist who knows something the rest of us don't we will have to go with the DSM-5 which has made it clear that homosexuality is not pathological. Biology only dictates the mind to a limited degree, and there is no connection between genitals and sexual orientation. I have said several times now that homosexuality can be found in nature among animals, but you refuse to listen. I'll even take it a step farther, I bet you won't read this sentence. go ahead, prove me wrong.

Why is it that Christians understand the harm done from this anything goes promiscuous self love culture? Broken homes, fatherless children are not on the Atheist's radar.

Abortion seems like a reasonable solution to the fatherless children problem. Accidental pregnancies can be avoided if the technology to make it happen is there. This actually hints at another side of the abortion debate that rarely gets addressed- how our laws require the man to pay support to the child. Personally, I think this is deeply sexist and should be changed.

 No matter the topic, whether it be Transgender boys and men playing in women's sports, or Drag Queens and Transgenders talking to our children in public places, etc. why do we seldom hear a peep from non believers?

Non-believers talk about this stuff all the time, you just don't listen. A famous atheist you-tuber was recently condemned by much of the left for standing up against trans-sports, but he has revised his position into something that is so reasonable it is ridiculous we can even still talk about this.

This fact stands out to me as evidence of their being a God. If we all simply evolved from some magical appearing first living cell, why would there be such apathy for the notion of responsibility and moral values? Why are people so divided when it comes to common sense issues?

It isn't a fact that people don't talk about this stuff, you are just making an argument from ignorance. There is extensive ongoing research into how exactly empathy and morality evolved, but what is obvious is that humans are rather small and weak compared to most other animals, and extensive social and cooperative behavior is required for our survival. If you think about it enough, it's almost common sense...

I believe there is a God, and this cultural war pulling us apart is strong evidence of that fact.

You BELIEVE there is a god! BELIEVE is the key word! You DON"T KNOW if there is or is not, or for that matter which one if there is. You are a Christian because you were raised with these values and ideas in mind. This statement is a complete non-sequitur, the "culture war" you imagine is a silly non-existent phenomena. People have the right to chose which if any religion they want, and people are choosing to put away childish things... Why not follow suit? 

Refusing to admit the obvious suggests a war going on between good and evil. Good and evil should not be byproducts of evolution.

Good and Evil... These are children's concepts. In the real world there is no black and white, most things are ambiguous, and morals are no exception. To think this into adulthood is a sure sign of a stunned maturity. The reality is that good and evil are man-made concepts, not divine in any way. This neither supports nor retracts from evolution by natural selection.

We_are_accountable

Thanks for all that deception!

You keep saying yes, non believers do speak out on moral issues. HOGWASH, THEY DON'T because morals is a dirty word to them.

To the Left, morals is a word that speaks to religion. They refuse to hold people accountable for their immoral choices in life. I NEVER hear non believers speaking to the immorality of promiscuous lifestyles, spreading Aids, spreading vinereal diseases, unwanted pregnancies, abortions, broken homes, abandoned children, etc.

Do you want to know what the Left says about all these moral problems? Nothing! They usually play their same old blame the rich guy nonsense.

What does the Left say about alcoholism? They call it a disease and put no blame on the person abusing alcohol.

What does the Left say about drug addiction? NOTHING! They blame the Rich man! They blame broken homes but never speak to the immorality that caused those broken homes.@Happy_Killbot

Dee

If God does not exist, why is it that non believers seldom speak out on the obvious harm caused from irresponsible lifestyles?

If god exists why do hypocrites like you never speak out about sex slavery in the Bible? 

You don’t speak out once the mafia boss ( god) sanctions it isn’t that right?

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Dee

I’m asking Aaron to ban you just like he banned Yeshuabought, you like her were two trolls who brought destruction to Create Debate which was once a pretty good debate platform 

This guys number one topic is abortion which he will post several times a week he’s here to attack Democrat’s and those he claims are on the left and he will do so relentlessly such is his hate for such 

GnosticChristian

We_are_accountable

Nice that I blew you right out of the water with my first shot.

Cowards can never be moral nor can those who believe that a genocidal god can be a good god.

Many religious have a satanic sense of morals an that is why you run from your betters.

Your log is slowing you down.

Interesting avatar name, while Christians have chosen to ride their scapegoat Jesus into heaven and not account for their own sins.

Regards
DL

Happy_Killbot

@We_are_accountable

The "left" whatever that means, doesn't say these things, INDIVIDUALS might, but the DNC, which is what I assume you mean, does not take any of the stances you site.

If I'm wrong, why don't you go and prove it?

Show me where the Democratic party takes a single one of theses stances:

• Says morals is a dirty word
• Morals only have to do with religions
• Immorality always comes from rich people
• The DNC makes no effort to help individuals with alcohol addiction
• The DNC has no policy on drug addiction
• The DNC blames Rich men from broken homes for drug addiction

If even just one of these statements isn't true, this is SLANDER and the DNC will see you in court for defamation.

ZeusAres42

There are so many issues with this argument that I don't even know where to begin.

We_are_accountable

I know where you can begin. EXAMPLES!

Give me an example where the Left shames a culture that openy has one night stands, not using birth control, getting pregnant, and then living off tax payers. I have never heard this in any of the Democrat speeches. All I hear is them blaiming the Rich man for people's poverty in life. Never do they blame the guy chasing that pretty skirt and getting yet one more woman pregnant. It's always the Rich man who caused him to be so immoral.@ZeusAres42

smoothie

Happy_Killbot said:

I'll even take it a step farther, I bet you won't read this sentence. go ahead, prove me wrong.

@Happy_Killbot Looks like he failed your test. He isn't even entirely reading what anybody says and just hits the "disagree" button. LOL

AlofRI

We_are_accountable said:

I know where you can begin. EXAMPLES!

Give me an example where the Left shames a culture that openy has one night stands, not using birth control, getting pregnant, and then living off tax payers. I have never heard this in any of the Democrat speeches. All I hear is them blaiming the Rich man for people's poverty in life. Never do they blame the guy chasing that pretty skirt and getting yet one more woman pregnant. It's always the Rich man who caused him to be so immoral.@ZeusAres42

I can give you EXAMPLES of where the RIGHT "shames a culture". By embracing a man who "openly has one night stands", openly gropes women, openly commits adultery when his wife is having a baby, rips off taxpayers with phony "universities", throws children and mothers in cages, promises "middle class tax cuts that the rich are "going to hate""... while giving them the biggest windfall in history, openly swears when children are watching and insults handicapped people on national TV, openly "chases pretty skirts" (and grabs when he catches them), enters the dressing rooms of beautiful women when he knows they are undressed, insults American heroes because they are OF a different "culture", and openly CLAIMS to be "Christian"! It IS THAT RICH MAN who is (will) cause children (and others), to be immoral!  I never hear any of THAT in Democrat speeches … when we didn't get rid of that Democrat! 

We_are_accountable

Oh, Democrats have no problem shaming immoral behavior IF IT'S A REPUBLICAN DOING IT!

The Left does not care to mention morality unless it has to do with demonizig their political opponents.@AlofRI

smoothie

@We_are_accountable https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

AlofRI

We_are_accountable said:

Oh, Democrats have no problem shaming immoral behavior IF IT'S A REPUBLICAN DOING IT!

The Left does not care to mention morality unless it has to do with demonizig their political opponents.@AlofRI

As I said, I know of NO Democrats that still have jobs that showed immoral behavior in office. Your comments are without merit.

Happy_Killbot

@smoothie

smoothie said:

Happy_Killbot said:

I'll even take it a step farther, I bet you won't read this sentence. go ahead, prove me wrong.

@Happy_Killbot Looks like he failed your test. He isn't even entirely reading what anybody says and just hits the "disagree" button. LOL

I have tested this guy a total of 4 times now. He has yet to pass a single one. He has no interest in real debate, so either he is a troll, is unable to understand differing opinions, or is not at all interested  in what others have to say. At any rate, he has little value as an interlocutor.

We_are_accountable

Who's talking about in office? The debate is about how the Left refuses to address the immoral problems we have in society with all the broken homes etc.@AlofRI

ZeusAres42

We_are_accountable said:

Who's talking about in office? The debate is about how the Left refuses to address the immoral problems we have in society with all the broken homes etc.@AlofRI

@We_are_accountable ; Firstly, do you know the difference between liberalism and leftism?

MayCaesar

@We_are_accountable

Are you aware of the fact that morals are inherently subjective? There is nothing that is "immoral" in the objective sense, and it makes sense for people to not call something they do not consider such "immoral", just because you consider it such.

I, for one, do not see anything wrong with one night stands. What are you going to do about it?

We_are_accountable

Thanks for admitting you have no examples of people on the Left speaking out on all the immoral behavior causing so many problem's in people's lives.@ZeusAres42

AlofRI

We_are_accountable said:

Who's talking about in office? The debate is about how the Left refuses to address the immoral problems we have in society with all the broken homes etc.@AlofRI

I guess, in a twisted way, the RIGHT is "fighting fire with fire". They seem to think that if you put an extreme example of immoral problems in office, and applaud everything he does, it will somehow make everyone SEE what is "immoral" and that will make them "address the immoral problems we have in society". They also, in like manner, deduce that breaking up families (i.e. taking children away from mothers, putting them in cages), will be a good example of why we shouldn't have "broken homes". Add to that, "Rallies" where the person "in office" insults, demeans, swears, and tosses out 17,000 (MUST be after that SOTU speech ;-), verifiable LIES, apparently is intended to teach our children that lying is a good way to get what we want.

Yes. Fight fire with fire. I DO think it's a bit of a twisted way to address our "immoral problems", but, maybe it will work?? 

AlofRI

MayCaesar said:

@We_are_accountable

Are you aware of the fact that morals are inherently subjective? There is nothing that is "immoral" in the objective sense, and it makes sense for people to not call something they do not consider such "immoral", just because you consider it such.

I, for one, do not see anything wrong with one night stands. What are you going to do about it?

I agree. I've had several of them myself. The difference is, I never paid over $100,000.00 FOR one, and NEVER while my wife was "tied up" having a baby.
They were ALL an "expression of love", an appreciation of time spent together, and often led to more of what the world needs more OF! 

The way "Agent Orange" went about it was/is certainly immoral even under "societal morals", let alone Biblical ones. It goes to show, "morality" is in the eyes of the beholder and definitely "subjective".