Is Delusion Bad?

Bogan

@Swolliw ;   No, I'm right....I did post the topic.....after you did not post one, given that you had ample opportunity to. And if you don't like the title then tough titties isn't it. 

You knew I had already instigated a topic on this subject 18 months ago, but (as I suspected you would) you instead chose to start a new topic under a heading you knew would be unacceptable to me.   A cunning plan, Swallow.  I suspected you would do that and I was not disappointed.    I love it when my opponents do the very underhanded things I predict they will do.    It means I can get inside your duplicitous head.

Swallow wrote     What is stopping you from putting your arguments into the debate?

Because I am not arguing that the white race is superior to the black trace, as well you know.    And I could ask you the same question as to why you will not come onto the "are races equal" topic?    But I already know the answer to that.    You are too chickensh-it.    You would have to put up or .    

Dreamer

Argument Topic: Sciencebased medicine is one of the best websites on the Internet.

@maxx

Labeling one of the best websites on the Internet all willy nilly as "ad bait" Maxx reveals you have a long long way to go on your critical thinking journey.  Your link doesn't work by the way.

Bogan

@Swolliw

Of course I did not post one.   My topic "are races equal?' has been extant for 18 months, and you know it.    

Dee

@Bogan

Hi Maxx. 

Bogend the sites biggest bigot is "reaching out " to the the sites biggest new age nut ......you're both well suited 

  Dee is just a troll, and the best way to deal with trolls is to just ignore them and let them play their stu-pid games with each other.   

Says Bogend a h-te filled bigot who trolls 24/7 hoping someone will support his Klu Klux Klan worldview 

 My advice to you, is don't give the fo-ol oxygen.

The only f-ol here is Bogend a brain dead troll who believed Trump when his hero said that 'revolutionary armies took over airports in 1775 ' ......Bogend and and his deliverance type extended family no doubt hollered  and whopped like demented cretins when Trump came out with this bit of "brilliance" 

maxx

like i figured. tdid you read your own link? full of ads. did you read my link? full of evidence.  as well, this scottt gavura is nothing more than a pharmacist, who just writes. for science based medicine. He is not a scientist, nor is he a biologist, nor does his papers have any  credibility. .  Allicin - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics
@Dreamer read and learn something. Allicin: chemistry and biological properties - PubMed (nih.gov)          (PDF) The human allicin-proteome: S-thioallylation of proteins by the garlic defence substance allicin and its biological effects (researchgate.net)   now if you have anything better, let me see it. otherwise,you are simply ignoring the evidence simply because it goes against your beliefs, and by the very definition, as well as the topic of this post, you are deluded. 

maxx

you got that right. @Bogan

Bogan

@Swolliw

Yeah?  Well, the invitation is still there.   Anytime you can work up the guts to cross swords with me on this topic, just come onto the "are races equal" topic, and we will see how smart you are?   I don't mind you calling me a racist, I consider it a badge of honour.   It means that I don't hate my own race and I can think for myself.    And I don't need a bunch of posturing, virtue signaling drop kicks like you who know nothing, to think for me. 

If you can't work up the courage to debate this important topic, at least knock of the constant sneery references to me.    Cowardice has never been considered a virtue, even by the woke.     

Bogan

How long have you had this delusion that all races are equal, Swallow?       What proof or reasoned argument can you supply to support your delusion?

Swolliw

@Bogan

Yeah?  Well, the invitation is still there.   Anytime you can work up the guts to cross swords with me on this topic, just come onto the "are races equal" topic, 

You are still backing out.....the challenge was for a debate, not posting on a casual topic where anyone can post whatever illogical crap (and invariably do) they want.

Next excuse? (I've counted five so far)

Dreamer

Argument Topic: Sciencebased medicine is funded by donations not ads.

@maxx

Yes, there is an ad, but for a supplement they are debunking. Scott Gavura isn't advertising the product. Sciencebased medicine has a team of scientists who won't let any quackery through.

"SBM is a non-profit project run by volunteers. We are committed to providing this information ad-free, and so we need your support."

https://www.patreon.com/SBM

Bogan

  @Swolliw ;  

  How about right here then?      How long have you had this delusion that races are equal?     As I understand it, a BELIEF is a concept you believe in because you have some evidence or at least a line of logical thought that makes you believe it is true.    But a delusion is a belief where you have no evidence at all, and no way of explaining what you believe or why you believe it.       You are obviously in the second category as you are terrified of justifying your belief.     But don't worry.     I can help you rid yourself of this delusion as I have read books on psychology and I think you are an interesting case.

maxx

i realize scott is not advertising the product, however he is a pharmicist. . Did you read my links or not. The evidence is right there ,in scientific jargon. They are not making this up . Science based is a site based more on opinion than actual facts and the writers are more of a journalistic nature who are biased against alternative medicines. I went and read several articles on that site on garlic and allicin, and they fail to show the biological and or chemical breakdown of garlic and show why they think it is adverse to humans.   My links show how the chemical breakdown of garlic and how it benefits us. Science-Based Medicine - Wikipedia  @Dreamer ;  Garlic: Health benefits and actions - ScienceDirect

Bogan

@Bogan

No, you are chickening out.   I do not even want to contribute on 'formal debates" as I find them too restricting and I know I will lose because of the over abundance of complete mor-ons on this site like Dee, Piloteer, Barnadot, and jack/excon.     I don't care what the hecklers and trolls submit in open debate, I will just go after you.and your pathetic attempts at debating.      I am sick and tired of your constant sneery remarks about me, especially since I have always tried to be polite to you.   Now I just want to get mt hands around your neck (metaphorically) and see how smart you are.

I asked you two simple questions and not unexpectantly, instead of answering them, you dodged them again.     The reason you did that is because you are dishonest, and you BELIEVE in a delusion that you can not explain, even to yourself.

Swolliw

@Bogan

 How about right here then?  

No, and you know very well why. You made the challenge, I eventually posted the debate and you have made every excuse under the sun so far not to participate.

Weak.

Dee

@Bogan

Stop sulking and whining , I keep schooling you and you keep wailing and whining 

Bogan

@Swolliw

How long have you had this delusion that all races are equal, Swallow?       What proof or reasoned argument can you supply to support your delusion?

C'mon ma-a-a-a-a-te.   You can't keep dodging what can't explain forever.    I am not going away.     Put up or .   Show us all how smart you are. and show  everybody how you can put that stu-pid Bogan fella that you never tire of sneering at, in his place.  

MayCaesar

maxx said:

 (PDF) The human allicin-proteome: S-thioallylation of proteins by the garlic defence substance allicin and its biological effects (researchgate.net)  

Any chance you could please summarize this paper for us, maxx? After trying to read the abstract and the first few paragraphs, I realized that it would take me months of serious studies to get to the point where I can seriously attempt to read this paper and understand some parts of it well. You are far ahead of me here, so I would appreciate it if you shared your understanding with me. Thanks!

maxx

I am sure you get the gist of it. You and everyone else keeps saying my links have no substance so here is one has some. I fail to even see the argument from all of you. The majority of medical, biological, science and nutritionists  agree allicin has specific  health benefits. What is so surprising about that?  @MayCaesar

ZeusAres42

maxx said:

I am sure you get the gist of it. You and everyone else keeps saying my links have no substance so here is one has some. I fail to even see the argument from all of you. The majority of medical, biological, science and nutritionists  agree allicin has specific  health benefits. What is so surprising about that?  @MayCaesar

No, that is not what they say. This is what @maxx says; the experts say a completely different thing. The problem is that simple sentences such as "There is very little and contradictory evidence that garlic has any health benefits" is apparently extremely hard for some people to understand.

 I mean some people need to read and get into debates about science jargon and academic literature (of which they blatantly have absolutely no understanding of) and then come up with the completely wrong conclusions. And this is despite the fact that there has already been a whole council of legitimate experts that have already reviewed the literature and summed up their analyses in plain language specifically for the average person (e.g Doctors explaining things to their patients) and thus using terms such as for instance "There is very little and contradictory evidence that garlic has any health benefits."

Unfortunately stuff like this that is equivalent to what is learned in the KS1 and KS2 curriculum is just way too hard for some people get their heads round. And the joke is that they bypass these levels and start talking about stuff in academic journals. I mean how on earth do they expect to able to have a discussion about science and academic journals when they can't even understand simple concepts such as as what we learn in KS1 and KS2?

Sorry if I sound harsh @maxx but if it's any conciliation you are not the only one that this thread that is still stuck on the key stage 1 and 2 curriculum; there is about 3 or more of you also here including the OP. And I don't see any hope of any of you passing these grades anytime soon. Best of luck though.

maxx

You knopw what? no one has sent the number of top quality sites on the health benefits of allicin as I and in return, no one has actually give me but a token in proof that it has no benefits as stated. All natural foods have health benefits; shallots and onions and garlic simply have more specific chemicals that affect humans better. food is made up of chemicals and every chemical we put into our body will affect either beneficially or adversely. For example there are foods that raise blood pressure, cholesterol, create diabetes, and so on.  Why is it so difficult to believe that there are foods that do the opposite. As well, I fail to see what you are debating for, since you really have not declared yourself pro or con at all. ,   @ZeusAres42

MayCaesar

maxx said:

I am sure you get the gist of it. You and everyone else keeps saying my links have no substance so here is one has some. I fail to even see the argument from all of you. The majority of medical, biological, science and nutritionists  agree allicin has specific  health benefits. What is so surprising about that?  @MayCaesar

I honestly do not: the abstract is filled with terms unfamiliar to me. Could you please comply with my politr request and explain the paper to me? Thanks.

ZeusAres42

@maxx

I can see you are still struggling with second grade science stuff. I also see you are struggling with how people usually talk to each other in a way that makes sense to each other and to whoever else is listening or reading. Now, I have decided I will be your mentor (helper) and help you get through not only second grade science but other subjects (lessons) as well which you appear to be stuck on. And this is all for free!

But to do this think it would be a good idea if we start from the first grade again. I also think we should leave the first grade science stuff for the moment as well at least until you have learned how have a chat to other people in the right way. We also call this communication.

I will now give you some examples of good and bad ways of talking with other people. Then I will give you a quiz and you have to answer by saying "correct" or "Incorrect!"

Dee

@ZeusAres42

You are engaging in a very humane act but I fear you would have more success in attempting to herd a group of cats at a country crossroads than  educating Maxx 

Dee

@Bogan

Hi Maxx.    Dee is just a troll, and the best way to deal with trolls is to just ignore them and let them play their stu-pid games with each other.   

Says the sites resident racist who preaches to his b-tt buddy Mad Maxx to ignore while he does  the complete opposite 

My advice to you, is don't give the fo-ol oxygen.

Says bigot Bogend who cannot tie his own shoe laces without help .......You're a funny little fellow ....

maxx

one more time, if you can not stick the subject at hand, then feel free to learn to debate. You are worse than dee and changing subjects, instead on answering direct. Allicin has medicinal health benefits, either prove it wrong or find another topic.@ZeusAres42

maxx

The topic is if garlic has the benefits so previously stated. If you agree, then why are you on here? If not, then prove it wrong and stop throwing red herrings out.  @MayCaesar ; Full article: Allicin and Other Functional Active Components in Garlic: Health Benefits and Bioavailability (tandfonline.com) If you do disagree, then i fail to see how you can prove it, for after not accepting my links for various reasons or the other; there are not any more top quality links for you to produce. Nor do I believe you have the ability to logically or scientifically prove the links wrong. 

Dee

@maxx

You are worse than dee and changing subjects, instead on answering direct. 

Still sulking because human excrement has more value and medical  use than your 'wonder' cure that not one reputable hospital , doctor or medical practice world wide use instead of actual medicine .....you lose again Deepak 





Here is Deepaks latest garlic based cure all , wonder why doctors and hospitals world wide are not queuing up to get  it ?.....bwhahahahahahaha .....Deepak says " believe me when I tell you it's velllllllyy vellllllyyyy  good for sahib and memsahib alike " 
sahib 

maxx

oh dee  are you going to start up again? why dont you stick to something you actually know of; although i fail to see what that may be. @Dee

Dee

@maxx

"garlic is velllllyyyy good for you sahib , all peoples know this " 

MayCaesar

maxx said:

The topic is if garlic has the benefits so previously stated. If you agree, then why are you on here? If not, then prove it wrong and stop throwing red herrings out.  @MayCaesar ; Full article: Allicin and Other Functional Active Components in Garlic: Health Benefits and Bioavailability (tandfonline.com) If you do disagree, then i fail to see how you can prove it, for after not accepting my links for various reasons or the other; there are not any more top quality links for you to produce. Nor do I believe you have the ability to logically or scientifically prove the links wrong. 

I would appreciate it if, instead of a generic response you give to everyone talking to you, you actually responded to my comment containing a specific request. I cannot understand this paper at this stage, and since you are referencing it, you must understand it much better than me. If you could summarize its content and findings briefly, I would appreciate it highly!

maxx

I have asked you many times long before your questions, to declare yourself upon this topic, so I would appreciate it if you do that first. If you agree, then you are debating in the wind; if you disagree, then i suggest you prove it. @MayCaesar

Dee

@maxx

Ahh poor old Maxx back to his go -to favourite fallacious argument "prove me wrong " 

MayCaesar

@maxx

I cannot agree or disagree with your argument if I do not understand it. Hence why I am asking you to clarify the content of the supporting material: that way I can understand and state my position on your argument, and simultaneously you can demonstrate that you do not just pull random links from the Internet and actually read what you reference. Everybody wins.

I should also point out that you come across as an incredibly socially inept person. You demonstrate complete lack of awareness of the conversation, ignoring 99% of what other people say and just pushing your line. It is like you are talking to imaginary people who say what you want them to say. I do not remember a single time that I asked you to clarify something in your reasoning and you actually did that.

ZeusAres42

@maxx

There was a problem with my examples where I am helping you learn how to speak with each other in the correct way. But, I have now fixed this and you can see the picture below.

Now, I see you want to have a debate about science. But in order to that you must know how to debate, and you must know about at least a little bit of science. But there is something we must know before we even know how to debate and this is called 'Communication.'

Now, I see that this term 'communication' is probably an advanced word for you as you have a problem doing it properly. So, I will explain it to you in a way that kids in their first school years can understand.

What is 'Communication?' This is where chat to each other. We do this by speaking and listening. We also do this by reading and writing to each other. When someone speaks to someone the other person listens to what they are saying. Then, other person speaks while the person who spoke first now listens. And they take turns in doing it. We also call this a conversation. 

Now, we also do this online but online we call it writing to each other and reading what each other has said. And both people take turns in reading and writing. Again, we call this a conversation.

But the conversation must make sense. How do we make sense here? For example, one person speaks to the other person and uses words to make sentences that make sense to the other person. Now, the person listening must listen to what the other person is saying and not just the sound he is making. And he must listen to the whole sentence and not just a few words of the sentence the other person has said. Then the person listening will be able to say a sentence that matches what the other person is saying when it is their turn to speak. This is how we make a conversation make sense.

This is also how it works online except the only difference is there are people reading and writing to have a conversation instead of speaking and listening. Here online, one person writes to the other person and uses words to make one or more sentences that make sense to the other person. Now, the person reading must read what the other person is saying and not just look at the letters that are used to make the words that make up the sentence or sentences. And he must read the whole sentence or sentences, and not just a few words of the sentence or sentences of what the other person has said. Then the person reading will be able to say one or more sentences that matches what the other person is saying when it is their turn to write. This is how we make a conversation make sense online. It's the same way we do it by speaking and listening but here we use reading and writing instead.

I will now show you examples of good and bad communication and then give you a short quiz to test your knowledge. Doesn't that sound fun?

MayCaesar

I will add to @ZeusAres42's excellent comment another distinction that I personally use: "open communication" versus "close communication" (do not look for these terms online; this is my personal conceptualization). In open communication, you have genuine interest in what your partner is talking about: you are receptive to the message and want your partner to expand and elaborate on everything. On the other hand, in close communication you focus on yourself and your points and treat your partner as just a vessel to pit them through.

Example of open communication:
A: "My boss yelled at me again today. She is always treating me like garbage"
B: "Oh, I can imagine how horrible it feels... What happened exactly? Please tell me more".

Example of close communication:
A: "My boss yelled at me again today. She is always treating me like garbage".
B: "That is nothing. Do you know what happened to me yesterday? My car broke, and..."

Note that engaging in open communication does not prevent you from making your own points. You just first acknowledge what your partner has said and pay due attention to it, and then make your own point in order to enhance it:

A: "My boss yelled at me again today. She is always treating me like garbage".
B: "I can imagine how it feels... Bosses can be jerks sometimes. You know, when my boss yells at me, I usually get a can of diet coke and go outside for a walk; it helps. How do you usually deal with situations like this?"

Open communication is the "real" mode of human interaction where two or more humans participate together to create something nice that benefits all partners. Close communication, on the other hand, is just a way for one person to feel good about themselves by using others as tools, disregarding their individuality. In the extreme case it goes as far as the person literally ignoring the partner and just saying their lines, completely disregarding the context of the discussion.

Maxx champions that extreme form of close communication, where his partners do not even feel like he is talking to them. He is always talking to some sort of the averaged opponent among opponents-products of his mind. I have never felt like even a small part of what I said to him was acknowledged. It is like 99% of the message gets cut off, and he mixes the remaining 1% with some stereotypical message he holds in his head and responds to that.

Maxx, you are not going to connect with many people doing that. Better work on fixing that.

maxx

. first all of my links are not too dense that you can not understand them; so do not give me that. as well, I am not going to go through the papers line by line, send you additional links and or definitions, asa to what every line means, when youi are quite capable of doing so yourself. Allicin has specific health benefits, prove me wrong.@MayCaesar

maxx

my topic is not about science, that is mays problem; she is simply being factitious. garlic and it components has health benefits. If you wish to post links that provide the opposite, then do so, for I have posted many and no one has seen fit to show the opposite.  @ZeusAres42

MayCaesar

@maxx

Pardon my skepticism, but  it is highly unlikely that you read that paper and found it "not too dense", for so far you have demonstrated no ability to read and understand serious scientific literature, while I, with my 10+ years of experience of reading such papers almost daily and currently working in a collinear field, cannot get through the abstract without doing a lot of extra reading. Just admit it: you have not read the paper.

As for your claim that this topic is not about science... Buddy, if you do not want it to be about science, then do not link scientific papers as supporting evidence of your claim. You do not get to reference scientific results and then, when someone questions your interpretation of them, whizzle out of responding by saying that it is not about science.

ZeusAres42

@MayCaesar

Are you active still? Sorry this is off-topic but I needed to DM you and I didn't know if you were getting it. Thanks.

maxx

buddy, it fails to matter if i do not understand it completely; I do know it supports the claims that allicin has health benefits. there is also a huge different about posting scientific links supporting the health benefits of a food, and claiming the post is scientific. It is your problem to understand the paper, not mine; as well, you keep skirting the main issue on if allicin has the benefits. @MayCaesar

MayCaesar

maxx said:

buddy, it fails to matter if i do not understand it completely; I do know it supports the claims that allicin has health benefits. there is also a huge different about posting scientific links supporting the health benefits of a food, and claiming the post is scientific. It is your problem to understand the paper, not mine; as well, you keep skirting the main issue on if allicin has the benefits. @MayCaesar

I asked you to provide a general summary, and you refused to do so. You have failed to demonstrate that you, in fact, understood anything in the paper. From the little I understood, it is not about health benefits at all, but about the modes of interaction of allicin with both malignant and non-malignant human cells. If you learned about particular health benefits that were amount the findings of this paper, please include them in your summary that I have been asking you for a while to provide, since, as per your claims, your understanding of this paper is much deeper than mine.

It is "my problem" to understand the paper? Pardon me, but this is an insane statement. You are making an argument using the paper as supporting evidence, and I am questioning the assumption that this paper in fact constitutes such evidence. An argument is a set of statements logically connected to each other, and the explanation of how these statements are connected to each other is an intrinsic part of an argument. Simply making a bunch of disjointed statements mixed with random links does not constitute an argument; it constitutes a product of a random sentence generator, or a stream of consciousness of a raving lunatic.

I am not trying to be insulting, but your social ineptitude is truly staggering. It is like you are trying your best to cause anyone you are talking to to quickly lose any respect for you. You know those people who constantly talk out of their... you know what, causing everyone talking to them after a while to stop taking anything they say seriously? My advice: try, at the very least, to not come across as one of those people.

maxx

the gist of the paper is than the chemical breakdown of garlic has positive effects on the human body.  for instance, according to the paper, it lowers blood pressure, because it stimulates the chemicals nitic oxide and hydogen sulphide, which in return relaxes blood vessels.  now I am not going to go trhoug all my links in which ypou fail to accept anyway, and explain it all for you. You can google it as well as I can. The main issue is and apparently all the links support, is if garlic has the benefits so stated. agree or not???@MayCaesar

MayCaesar

@maxx

I am talking about this paper you cited earlier:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329229495_The_human_allicin-proteome_S-thioallylation_of_proteins_by_the_garlic_defence_substance_allicin_and_its_biological_effects

I cannot find where it states anything of the sort. Care to elaborate, please? 

Also, I just goodled chemicals "nitic oxide" and "hydogen sulphide" and found no information on either. What are these mysterious chemicals?