What will happen if Trump is convicted?

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: 37 Counts

The maximum possible sentence for Trump is 740 years in prison. This is calculated by multiplying the maximum sentence for each count by the number of counts (37). The maximum sentence for each count is 20 years.

However, it is highly unlikely that Trump would receive the maximum sentence for each count. Federal defendants are rarely given the maximum possible punishment. In fact, the average sentence for a federal felony is only about 5 years, for a total of 185 years.

There are a number of factors that a judge will consider when sentencing Trump, including his age, health, and prior criminal record. Trump is 76 years old and has no prior criminal record. This means that he is likely to receive a sentence that is lower than the maximum possible sentence.

In another thread, I predicted Trump will die in prison in 2039.  I stand by that prediction.

jack

anarchist100 said:

It won't be the end of his movement, he has inspired an ideology with himself at the center,

@anarchist100

Hello a:

What you say above is true..  And like any cult leader NOBODY can replace him because HE'S the cult.  I dunno WHY people adore him..  Oh, they KNOW what a miserable SOB he is, and they love him MORE for it..  I have NO idea why.

But, if he's convicted of selling out the country as charged, he'll NEVER see the light of day..

excon

Barnardot

@anarchist100 What your got to remember is that Trump is a real intelligent man and hes not extreme at all its just that all the red necks think hes better than sliced breed so Trump just plays them a round his little finger so he gets more votes. What he is is a down home republican and thats why all republicans are now behind him because they know that he gets things done. And those charges wont stick any way because it is all just democratic which huntery any way. Any way what bits of paper are they talking about any way because I bet it is no more than an Astro boy comic that they found in his toilet.

John_C_87

What will happen if Trump is convicted?

He loses a presumption of innocence.

Barnardot

@John_C_87 ;He loses a presumption of innocence.

Well thats like saying what happens when its not day. Well like derrr its night.

John_C_87

@Barnardot

Well thats like saying what happens when its not day. Well like derrr its night.

The fact is the sun does not ever go away, it is day all the time as whole truth, and a person losing a presumption of innocence is a rather major victory in making connection to established justice. Part of the issue that may not fully understood is that being a republican is an American Constitutional Right there is no other political party as whole truth. Executive officer Trump can be described as a walk on having never understood we do not have a choice to be republican or not. The object of this point of American republic is to establish up front beyond reasonable doubt damages created in the political arena are those reflective in the court be established justice Civil cases may lose credibility of criminal credibility have been fulfilled.

Bogan

If Trump is convicted, the USA could be looking at another civil war.     The productive, tax paying people of America will realize that a totalitarian coup has taken control of their country which has no legitimacy.     Putting political opponents in jail that you can not beat at the ballot box is the litmus paper test of totalitarianism.      I think that the Democrat traitors have finally poked the wasps nest too much and they will reap what they sow.

MayCaesar

A former American president going to prison would be a horrible precedent, putting America in the list of other corrupt democracies such as South Korea or SAR in which this kind of thing is a normality. Regardless of whether Trump has actually done something warranting such a response or it is a typical instance of political persecution, this precedent would shook the system and profoundly alter how the population perceives it. Especially given that Trump (as much as I prefer DeSantis or Ramaswamy) is the most likely presidential candidate from the Republican party in the upcoming election, this would not bode well for the future of this country.

Let us not kid ourselves: 99% of the people who want Trump to be convicted want it not out of some deep sense of justice, but out of desire to not face the possibility of him becoming the next US president. This is what makes this situation despicable. I am all for people going to prison for committing heinous crimes, and that applies to every single individual - but singling out someone who is one's political opponent and wanting them to be imprisoned in whichever way it can be practically accomplished is a completely different stance, one I find disgusting and extremely dangerous.

I think that Trump would be (and was) an awful president, and yet I would strongly prefer him becoming the next president to this scenario. If Trump is convicted, then whoever wins the 2024 election will be widely perceived (by both Democratic and Republican voters) as illegitimate/undeserving of their position, much like Ding Liren winning the latest world championship match in chess is not taken seriously by most chess players on account of Magnus Carlsen being objectively the strongest player in the world. A country in which almost no one believes that the current president has won the election fair and square... what could go wrong here, right?

John_C_87

@Bogan
Try to obstruct justice much?
If Trump is convicted, the USA could be looking at another civil war. 
America is looking at several ongoing civil wars no matter what happens to Ex-Executive officer Trump his conviction like others in politics has little to do with anything else other than the repercussions to their own actions over time.

The productive, tax paying people of America will realize that a totalitarian coup has taken control of their country which has no legitimacy.

Totalitarian control is based on the use of Executive orders which are illegal in many conditions of law anyway it is following these type orders which is the greater cause of risk, even as a voter. You are simply mistaking a legal malpractice of law with a coup and Armed Services court intervention has become necessary due to the political use of Executive order. Stop trying to create a disturbance as distraction the level of appropriate legislation is far too low to be explained as a democratic issue alone. You are right though Executive officer Trump will not be the last political figure to face consequence right or wrong.

jack

Bogan said:

If Trump is convicted, the USA could be looking at another civil war.    I think that the Democrat traitors have finally poked the wasps nest too much and they will reap what they sow.

Hello B:

I hope you're right..  We should have FINISHED Civil War 1.0 when we had the chance.  Instead, we let you live and flourish.  We ain't gonna make that mistake again.

excon

John_C_87

@jack
I hope you're right.

He isn't right though, don't worry............With all the luting and damage ever caused before, during, and after by the American's 1st Civil War the evidence had not been destroyed in its entirety. The three major grievance set as issues of civil unrest are discrimination, sexual prejudice, and improper use of unsecure credit on a national level.  Trump may have made out a lot better overall had he not made an argument to negotiate and address the illegal process of legislation which is a legal malpractice of law built around pregnancy abortion at the level of American Supreme court. Which is simple only a very small part of the Sexual prejudice grievance which by self-evident truth is addressed directly by female specific amputation, with now an additional necessary assignment in Armed Services Court of law / tribunal. Just as the idea of sexual prejudice is directly addressed openly as the more perfect state of the union on American constitutional right with the declaration of women's independence under the United States Constitutional Right "Presadera."

This type of grievance negation may have worked for council had the opposing council side had a more perfect state of the union to established justice. But, just like the 1960 had unethical interference by educational instructors. The idea of the importance and necessity of having better written constitutional state of union had actual meant to a cause of ending Civil War’s unrest including the unrest in the Korean War.

Bogan

According to one Youtube video I watched, the Federal judge who has been appointed through random selection is a known Trump supporter.      The person interviewed speculated that this judge, who clearly sees the political ramifications and the obvious double standards regarding Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden, may well agree to scheduling the trial until after Trump is re elected President.     Trump, as an experienced President who knows how things work, and who now knows who are the corrupt officials who are destroying US democracy and protecting corrupt Joe Biden, will clean them out and restore credibility to the FBI, the CIA, the IRS, and the US Justice department.

just_sayin

This is a great question.  I know people who are diehard Trump loyalists.  I think there are enough loyalists that he wins the Republican nomination, unless DeSantis can score some serious early hits on him.  I think it would probably turn independents off voting for Trump though, and his only chance at winning is if Biden does something or the economy tanks.  

John_C_87

What do you call the process when computer AI temporarily shuts down live trading midstream on the almost new an almost pefect state of the union set for the stock exchange?

Got to say one thing for sure, any person who files claims of corporate bankruptcy  must know by experiance a little about shredding and burning documents. The more corporate bankruptcies the better someone should get by  experience, right?. Stock market circut breakers.......still work.

New Stock-by-Stock Circuit Breakers | Investor.gov

jack

Argument Topic: Update

Hello:

I'm wondering how fair Trumps trial is gonna be when cameras and recording devices are excluded and the judge is MAGA.

Goodby, sweet country..  Good bye.

excon

John_C_87

@jack

I'm wondering how fair Trumps trial is gonna be when the press is excluded and the judge is MAGA.

Oddly, enough the press does not need be excluded to hold the constitutional right of freedom of press to the media. The press is simply not allowed to write or repeat trial information about the trial until after the proceeding has been fully completed. This could mean for as long as the appeal process takes to be finished as well. They the press / media are nothing more than an additional witness at any trial, for the record America has never held a perfect constitutional state of the union yet. So, any America that is to be great again, is an America without realistic goal in a legal sense to begin with.  

The idea that Trump is even the first Executive officers to face criminal issues in the practices of law is false as many have most have also happen to just cut deals, maybe just better than Executive officers trumps deal.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Accountability

@MayCaesar

I understand your concerns about the precedent that would be set if a former American president were to go to prison. However, I believe that the rule of law is more important than any political considerations. If Trump has committed crimes, then he should be held accountable, regardless of his political status.

I also disagree with your assessment that 99% of the people who want Trump to be convicted do so out of a desire to prevent him from becoming president again. I believe that many people want Trump to be held accountable for his actions, regardless of the political implications.

I agree that it is dangerous to single out political opponents for prosecution. However, I do not believe that this is what is happening in the case of Trump. The charges against him are serious, and they have been brought by a bipartisan group of prosecutors.

I believe that it is important to uphold the rule of law, even when it is inconvenient or politically difficult. If we do not hold our leaders accountable for their actions, then we are sending the message that they are above the law. This would be a dangerous precedent for our democracy.

I understand that you are concerned about the potential for instability if Trump is convicted. However, I believe that the long-term stability of our democracy is more important than the short-term risk of instability. If we allow our leaders to break the law without consequences, then we are undermining the foundation of our democracy.

I believe that we can overcome our differences and build a better future for our country. However, we must be willing to uphold the rule of law, even when it is difficult.

jack

JulesKorngold said:

the rule of law is more important than any political considerations. If Trump has committed crimes, then he should be held accountable, regardless of his political status.

Hello:

What HE said!

excon

John_C_87

@jack

Here rests part of the problem President of the United State of America is not a political status it is a legal status. It is only an international political status outside America due as there are no political obligations to server, protect, and defend American constitution in any of courts not with direct ties to the United States of Supreme court appeal process, it is not an American Political status it is a legal status created by constitutional right. Thus, it is why a woman such has Kamala Haris or Mrs. Clinton can never be a President of the United States of America they are to be considered Presadera of the United States of America. The Federal laws that many including Trump, Biden, and Mrs. Clinton influence may or may not have broken are not to stop the American United States Constitutional Rights which have received damaged and left broken from reaching trial.The first grievance is none of the executive officers mentioned had in fact been President of the United States of America. The reason for this is due to appropriate legislation was never conducted by congress…

We can attempt to assemble a tribular ourselves, but it is the appropriate legislative path to seek an official American Armed Service tribunal asking the Armed Services act as liaison… in this matter. 

MayCaesar

jack said:

Hello:

I'm wondering how fair Trumps trial is gonna be when cameras and recording devices are excluded and the judge is MAGA.

Goodby, sweet country..  Good bye.

excon

Strange that you are not wondering the same in case the judge is pro-Biden, the current head of the executive branch. Only when the judge is not a pawn of the ruling class do we have a problem, right?

JulesKorngold said:

@MayCaesar

I understand your concerns about the precedent that would be set if a former American president were to go to prison. However, I believe that the rule of law is more important than any political considerations. If Trump has committed crimes, then he should be held accountable, regardless of his political status.

I also disagree with your assessment that 99% of the people who want Trump to be convicted do so out of a desire to prevent him from becoming president again. I believe that many people want Trump to be held accountable for his actions, regardless of the political implications.

I agree that it is dangerous to single out political opponents for prosecution. However, I do not believe that this is what is happening in the case of Trump. The charges against him are serious, and they have been brought by a bipartisan group of prosecutors.

I believe that it is important to uphold the rule of law, even when it is inconvenient or politically difficult. If we do not hold our leaders accountable for their actions, then we are sending the message that they are above the law. This would be a dangerous precedent for our democracy.

I understand that you are concerned about the potential for instability if Trump is convicted. However, I believe that the long-term stability of our democracy is more important than the short-term risk of instability. If we allow our leaders to break the law without consequences, then we are undermining the foundation of our democracy.

I believe that we can overcome our differences and build a better future for our country. However, we must be willing to uphold the rule of law, even when it is difficult.

My argument though does not imply that political considerations should overrule the law. It, in fact, says the exact opposite: that the law should apply equally to everyone. That is not the attitude that most people wanting Trump to be imprisoned display, and that is precisely what the issue here is.

It seems to me that mishandling a bunch of classified documents is a much smaller offense from the justice perspective than, say, throwing the economy into chaos and causing a runaway inflation. Which is going to impact your life more: the former, or the latter? If Trump really has done something atrocious (say, murdered a political opponent in the dark alley), then absolutely he should be convicted. Him being convicted over something this marginal does not bode well for the country. Ever heard of Khodorkovsky and what Putin did to him in Russia? The guy was accused of "corruption" and imprisoned for many years, while in reality, first, he did not do anything that most other oligarchs did not (therefore, all of them should have been imprisoned by the same logic), and second, he funded organizations opposing Putin's regime. Do you not see the parallels here?

Consider the fact that the court has had many years to look into this, yet the process only really began when it became clear that 1) Trump is planning on running for president in 2024, and 2) he is quite likely to win the election. The timing of this, as well as the sloppiness of the prosecutors, has the same flavor as political persecution in other pseudo-democracies. It is possible that all this is just a huge set of coincidences, but... do you expect a large fraction of the population to buy it?

Bogan

I think that the majority of American people do not like bullies, and are aghast at the thought of government officials misusing their power to persecute people who they either do not like, or who present an existential threat to the power, prestige, and prosperity, of the elite.       On that score, I think that most Americans will vote for Trump because they see in Donald Trump a persecuted individual who personifies themselves, if the Deep State decided to go after individual members of the public.     As Donald Trump so eloquently stated, "If they can come after me, they can come after you."

JulesKorngold

@MayCaesar

Trump has been accused of mishandling classified documents on multiple occasions. He has also been accused of obstructing justice and of abusing his power. If these accusations are true, then he should be held accountable for his actions.

I do not believe that the parallels between Trump's case and the case of Khodorkovsky are accurate. In Khodorkovsky's case, he was accused of corruption and imprisoned for many years. However, there is evidence to suggest that he was actually imprisoned for political reasons. In Trump's case, he has not been accused of corruption. He has been accused of mishandling classified documents and of obstructing justice. These are serious offenses, but they are not the same as corruption.

I believe that it is important to allow the investigations to proceed without interference. The American people deserve to know the truth about what happened, and they deserve to know whether or not Trump is guilty of any crimes.

I understand that some people believe that the investigation is politically motivated. However, I believe that the evidence shows otherwise. The investigation is being conducted by experienced prosecutors who are committed to upholding the law. I believe that they will follow the evidence wherever it leads, regardless of who it implicates.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Moving Forward

@Bogan

I agree that the majority of American people do not like bullies. However, I do not believe that the majority of American people believe that government officials are misusing their power to persecute people who they either do not like, or who present an existential threat to the power, prestige, and prosperity, of the elite.

In fact, I believe that the majority of American people believe that the government is doing a good job of upholding the law and protecting the rights of all citizens. They may not agree with every decision that the government makes, but they believe that the government is acting in good faith.

I also do not believe that most Americans will vote for Trump because they see in him a persecuted individual who personifies themselves. In fact, I believe that most Americans are tired of the political polarization and gridlock in Washington, D.C. They are looking for a leader who can bring the country together and get things done.

I do not believe that Trump is the answer to this problem. He is a divisive figure who has only exacerbated the political polarization in the country. I believe that the best way to move forward is to elect a leader who is willing to work with both sides of the aisle to find common ground.

I understand that some people believe that the "Deep State" is a real threat to the American people. However, I believe that this is a conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality. The government is not a monolithic entity that is out to get anyone who disagrees with it. The government is made up of millions of people who are simply trying to do their jobs.

The government is not perfect, but it is the best system we have for protecting our rights and our freedoms.

I hope that the American people will choose a leader who will unite the country and get things done. I believe that this is the best way to move forward and protect our democracy.

John_C_87

@MayCaesar
My argument though does not imply that political considerations should overrule the law. It, in fact, says the exact opposite: that the law should apply equally to everyone.

This statement makes no sense as whole truth there are several American United States Constitutional Amendments that say quote "Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." This is a written record that members of Congress have already set in motion a means to political rule over law. The American United States Constitution is the only document that describes the more perfect state of the union with established justice and its protection of the voter was ingored by many states for political gain. As whole truth nothing of law should ever apply equally to all it is a self-evident admission of legal negligence a law must make a direct connection between right and wrong with truth, whole truth, and nothing but truth.

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

Trump has been accused of mishandling classified documents on multiple occasions. He has also been accused of obstructing justice and of abusing his power. If these accusations are true, then he should be held accountable for his actions. I do not believe that the parallels between Trump's case and the case of Khodorkovsky are accurate. In Khodorkovsky's case, he was accused of corruption and imprisoned for many years. However, there is evidence to suggest that he was actually imprisoned for political reasons. In Trump's case, he has not been accused of corruption. He has been accused of mishandling classified documents and of obstructing justice. These are serious offenses, but they are not the same as corruption. I believe that it is important to allow the investigations to proceed without interference. The American people deserve to know the truth about what happened, and they deserve to know whether or not Trump is guilty of any crimes. I understand that some people believe that the investigation is politically motivated. However, I believe that the evidence shows otherwise. The investigation is being conducted by experienced prosecutors who are committed to upholding the law. I believe that they will follow the evidence wherever it leads, regardless of who it implicates

None of it matters as the focus of legal matters by the Federal Court or State court cannot hear the case. "Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation." The Federal and state governments are involved in the matters directly by the instruction congress has placed on guidelines of written legislation of law in advance. You are making a argument that is over privacy of an accused person.

Bogan

@JulesKorngold

Juleskorngold quote     I agree that the majority of American people do not like bullies. However, I do not believe that the majority of American people believe that government officials are misusing their power to persecute people who they either do not like, or who present an existential threat to the power, prestige, and prosperity, of the elite.

Then they must be walking around with their ears bunged up with wax and with a paper bag over their heads.

Juleskorngold quote     In fact, I believe that the majority of American people believe that the government is doing a good job of upholding the law and protecting the rights of all citizens. 

How on earth you figure that out is one of life's enduring mysteries.

Juleskorngold quote     They may not agree with every decision that the government makes, but they believe that the government is acting in good faith.

Oh, okay.    so Hillary Clinton, who had no right to have any classified documents at all, has 30000 on her personnel email server which could have been, and probably was, hacked by hostile foreign agents.     When caught, she smashed 5 Iphones with a hammer and put her hard drive in a bucket of bleach.     How many serious crimes is that?     If Trump is being prosecuted for "mishandling" 37 documents with every single one of them resulting in a separate charge. then Hillary is guilty of 30000 offences.    Toss in evidence tampering and perverting the course of justice, and that makes 30002.

But was she prosecuted?  Of course not.     She is one of the deep State swamp and her buddies in the DOJ and the FBI ran a protection racket on her.     And you think that this is indicative of an impartial legal system which prosecutes anybody without fear or favour?    I am shaking my head in pitying wonder at the way that your mind works.  Or doesn't work.

But wait, there's more!      Hunter Biden's laptop showed him smoking crystal meth while handling a gun which he illegally obtained through lying on a gun license application.     If he was any other citizen, he would have ben tried, convicted, and sentenced to jail within three months.     But once again, the Deep State ran their protection racket on the Biden's.    If it had not been for the computer repair man keeping  copy and giving it to Rudy Guiliani, the laptop would have been buried and Hunter and Joe would have been in the clear.     Even then, Rudy Guiliani, a prominent lawyer and ex DA was spied upon by the fibbies in his converstaions with Australian journo Miranda Divine.      That did that by illegally misusing a Pfizer warrant, which was solely intended for use against terrorists.

On and on it goes.      Two IRS whistleblowers approached Jim Comey of the House Oversight Committee complaining that the DOJ had shut down their investigation of Hunter Biden's alleged tax evasion scheme.     And you still claim that the US administration is honest and impartial?

Next comes the revelation from Elon Musk that the fibbies told all of the online media organizations that Hunter's laptop "had all the hallmarks of Russians disinformation."    That was to bury the story, influence the election, and give Joe an "out" when he debated Trump.    He claimed that 52 intelligence agents had cleared the laptop as "Russian disinformation."      In other words, my dear Jules, the President that you supported looked the US public in the face on TV and told them a lie.    He knew it was not true.    I have got to hand it to Joe, he is a very polished .    He can do it without any tell tale embarrassment at all.

Next comes the revelation about the $10,000,000 dollar bribe that Joe allegedly got from Burisma for Joe's help in shutting down an investigation into Burisma by a Ukrainian prosecutor.     They even have Joe on tape bragging about how he threated to withhold a $1 billion dollar aid package to Ukraine if the prosecutor wasn't sacked.     How du-mb can you be?     Joe even bragged on camera about his role in this shady deal but you think he is squeaky clean?    Wow!

Next comes Joe who had stolen classified documents stored in his garage and all over Chinatown.     One would have thought that if they were going to indict Trump for not storing clasified papers properly, then they should have indicted or impeached Joe at the same time.    But they will wait until after he withdraws from the Presidential race for "health reasons" and then say that he is too senile to prosecute.    One law for Trump, and a different law for Biden.   All courtesy of the FBI and the Department of Justice.

When FBI whistleblowers told Senator Comey that the fibbies had a file implicating Joe in bribery, the fibbies under Christopher Ray claimed that it did not exist.     When told that Congressman Comey had a copy, they finally admitted it did exist, but even though it was not a classified document, they said that nobody could read it.     Comey had to threaten Wray with a contempt of Congress charge before Wray would hand over the document.     The oversight committee then discovered that it had been heavily redacted.     But Comey had a copy of the original, and he soon realized what the fibbies were trying to conceal.    Tapes of Hunter and Joe negotiating the bribe with their Ukrainian partners.     Naturally, the fibbies are maintaining their protection racket of the Biden's.   The FBI will not confirm or deny that they have the tapes.     And you can't see anything wrong?     Ama-a-a-a-azing.

Juleskorngold quote      I also do not believe that most Americans will vote for Trump because they see in him a persecuted individual who personifies themselves. In fact, I believe that most Americans are tired of the political polarization and gridlock in Washington, D.C. 

Then such people have low IQ's and have no interest in trying to work out who is selling them out.

Juleskorngold quote   I do not believe that Trump is the answer to this problem. He is a divisive figure who has only exacerbated the political polarization in the country. I believe that the best way to move forward is to elect a leader who is willing to work with both sides of the aisle to find common ground.

Trump is a divisive figure?     Look ma-a-a-a-te.      The Democrats primary electoral strategy is to divide and conquer.     Divide the nation by race.      Divide the nation by age and tell the young kids that the older generation is destroying their future.     Divide the nation by sex and gender.      Tell every aggrieved minority group that the reason for their inability to prosper is all the white guys fault.

Juleskorngold quote    I understand that some people believe that the "Deep State" is a real threat to the American people. However, I believe that this is a conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality. 

Well, you are not looking very hard.     Remember the Wuhan virus?     Anyone who could follow the dots could figure out tyhat the bug originated in the Wuhan lab.     But anybody who said that online, including leading virologists, were accused of being "conspiracy theorists" and had their accounts shut down.

Juleskorngold quote      The government is made up of millions of people who are simply trying to do their jobs.

And they are led by political appointed flunkeys like Merrick Garland and Christopher Wray, James Comey and Dr Fauci, who represent an elite caste of filthy rich brahmins who think that they are born to rule, who despise ordinary people like you, and who  enrich themselves with corruption because they think it is their due.    They are prepared to trash the ideals of the very institutions they control for their own self aggrandizement, and the greed of their friends.     And you support them?   Ama-a-a-a-a-zing.       The Founding Fathers would find your support for those who would trash their legacy, astounding.

Juleskorngold quote     The government is not perfect, but it is the best system we have for protecting our rights and our freedoms.

Rigging elections, influencing voters by concealing damaging stories inimical to your candidate in the media, and prosecuting your main political rival on trumped up charges, while completely ignoring the egregious crimes of your political supporters, is hardly protecting "rights and freedoms."

Juleskorngold quote   I hope that the American people will choose a leader who will unite the country and get things done. I believe that this is the best way to move forward and protect our democracy.

Then you had better hope that the majority choose Trump.     Or jailing political opponents while engaging in the moist blatant corruption, suppressing free speech, illegally wiretapping political opponents, and a two tiered justice system will become the norm for the USA.

China thinks that the USA is decadent and on the decline, and they have you as proof of that.

JulesKorngold

@Bogan
Anyway...Trump will die in prison in 2039.

Bogan

My prediction is, that the walls are closing in on Biden, not Trump.     The evidence that Joe Biden and his entire family are corrupt is growing every day, and sooner or later, the corporate media will have to admit that even though they want to keep running interference for Joe, they just can not keep pretending that nothing is happening.     The media knows that they are starting to loom like id-iots.       Joe Biden will not run for President again.     The Democrat leaders always knew that Joe was hopelessly corrupt but they thought that they had the power to keep the lid on that forever.     But the situation is just getting beyond their formidable ability to cover it up. 

They will order Joe to step down, and when he does, they will guarantee that the US Justice System which they own will not prosecute him.     They will say that yes, he was corrupt, but now he is just is too senile to prosecute.    Gavin Newsome or Robert Kennedy Jr will be the next Democrat Presidential nominee.      They can't use Kamala because she is even more unpopular than Biden, and that's saying something.     And Kamala, although a fool,  is probably honest, so that character flaw will not sit well with Deep State Democrats.

I also predict that Trump will beat the charges as the whole thing was dreamed up, just like the Russia hoax, and the claim that 51 US intelligence experts opined that Hunters laptiop, detailing many of the crooked deals that he and his father were up to their necks in, was "Russian disinformation."     Even if Trump gets convicted on one of the 37 charges he has been charged with, , it will just make him more popular, and he will appeal all the way to the Supreme Court who the last I heard, have not yet been corrupted by the Dems.     Trump will win the next Presidential elections by a landslide.    As a matter of fact, if they could prevent every US citizen who has a degree from some loony left university from voting, it could be the first unanimous Presidential vote in history.

jack

Bogan said:

Robert Kennedy Jr will be the next Democrat Presidential nominee.    

Hello B:

You mean the anti-vaxxer Kennedy will be the Dems nominee???  Du-de!   I saw him on Joe Rogans podcast..  And, it's true, Rogan's podcast is where the Dems are looking for their nominee.

Bwa, ha ha ha ha ha ha..

excon

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Nah

@Bogan

I understand that you are concerned about the possibility of corruption in the Biden administration. I share your concern, and I believe that it is important to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions.

However, I do not believe that the evidence of corruption against Biden is as strong as you suggest. The allegations against Biden and his family have been investigated by multiple law enforcement agencies, and no charges have been filed.

I also believe that it is important to be fair and impartial in our assessment of these allegations. It is possible that Biden and his family are guilty of corruption, but it is also possible that they are innocent. We should not rush to judgment until all of the evidence has been evaluated.

As for your prediction that Trump will win the next presidential election, I believe that it is too early to say. The political landscape is constantly changing, and it is impossible to predict what will happen in the future.

I believe that it is important to focus on the issues that matter to Americans and to choose our leaders based on their positions on these issues. We should not allow our elections to be decided by personal attacks and conspiracy theories.

jack

Bogan said:

As a matter of fact, if they could prevent every US citizen who has a degree from some loony left university from voting, it could be the first unanimous Presidential vote in history.

Hello again, B:

Here's where we wholeheartedly AGREE..  If you could SUPPRESS the libs from voting, Trump would win.. 

excon

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

As for your prediction that Trump will win the next presidential election, I believe that it is too early to say. FALLACY!  E.O. Number #45 is about as far away from president as a man equal to all other men might get. To be honest I do not feel he even wants to be President of the United States of America. There has not been a Presidential election ever in America, every election that has taken placed and has been called a Presidential election is in fact, meaning truth, has only been for an Executive officer. Funny enough a Presidential  Presaderial finding would be a Congressional act performed in a federal court much like a civil lawsuit inwhich a process of appeal could still overturn the court ruling of a man proving himself President. 

To point out just how imperfect the state of the union has become with the idea a women could ever be President of the United States of America the federal court could hold massive criminal trials as the number of people who have possibly committed perjury while voting is so high,it would be the only way to ensure the voter no longer qyuilifed to vote be removed from then voting pool. Provided if those voters are convicted in a just and expedient way without prejudice, liberlay educated ir not as this has not bearing on the potential causes of criminal perjury. This liberty and justice for all includes Lawyers, Doctors, Politician’s, and of course, "We the people." The voters remaining as members of the state of the more perfect union, can the connection to established justice get any better than that?

@ Jack
Here's where we wholeheartedly AGREE..  If you could SUPPRESS the libs from voting, Trump would win.. 

Really, surpress votes......Lets start by cleaning up the less obvious types of voter fraud and stick to ending the votes of the all people who should not be allowed to vote by criminal record created by abusing the voting process itslef.

In a show of hands, who here believes sending a potential candidate to commit crime to law school with Federal loans has a higher potential to create smarter criminals? 

Bogan

@JulesKorngold

Juleskorngold quote    I understand that you are concerned about the possibility of corruption in the Biden administration. I share your concern, and I believe that it is important to hold our elected officials accountable for their actions.

So far, so good.

Juleskorngold quote    However, I do not believe that the evidence of corruption against Biden is as strong as you suggest.

If you ever bothered to get onto Fox and treat yourself to an opposing view, you would discover that it is the number one story on that network because it is the most important news story so far this century.     The evidence to support that story just happens to be so overwhelming, with more evidence surfacing surfacing every day, that two other stories are a part of it.     The first is, that the FBI and the DOJ will not only not investigate these strong allegations, they are doing their best to suppress the evidence and protect the Biden family.     The second is, that the corporate news media is complicit in protecting Joe Biden from his obvious corruption.     The problem for the corporate media, is that the story is just so big, and the evidence just keeps piling up, that sooner or later they have to cover it or they will lose whatever shred of credibility they have with half of the US population. To say nothing of the international press.     They will look like paid PR shills for the Democratic Party, which is exactly what they are.

Juleskorngold quote  The allegations against Biden and his family have been investigated by multiple law enforcement agencies, and no charges have been filed.

I have no idea where you got that wacky idea from?      Why don't you watch on youtube Congressman Ted Cruz from the Congressional Oversight Committee grill that senior FBI official on camera?    Look with your own eyes at how the senior FBI official simply refuses to answer a series of pertinent questions about the investigation of Joe Biden, and refuses to even admit whether or not the fibbies have the tapes of Joe Biden negotiating with the Burisma executives about the terms of his bribe.    Look at how the senior FBI officer sweats and squirms.    Look at his body language yourself, and figure out if you think that the FBI is lying and covering up serious criminal activities by Joe Biden for political reasons, or whether they are squeaky clean?

Juleskorngold quote       I also believe that it is important to be fair and impartial in our assessment of these allegations. It is possible that Biden and his family are guilty of corruption, but it is also possible that they are innocent. We should not rush to judgment until all of the evidence has been evaluated
.

Yet you yourself have already rushed to judgement and condemned Donald Trump as guilty.    And you have even predicted that he will be jailed.      You woke lefty liberals are incredible.    You come out as morally superior with these high falutin moral principles which you demand that your opponents should maintain, while you routinely trash those same principles yourself.     And then you wonder why right wing people think that you are stu-pid?

Juleskorngold quote       As for your prediction that Trump will win the next presidential election, I believe that it is too early to say. The political landscape is constantly changing, and it is impossible to predict what will happen in the future.

You predicted the future yourself when you predicted that Trump will be jailed.   And then you have the audacity to attack me for doing exactly the same thing that you did.    Ama-a-a-azing.     My advice to you, is for you to ensure that your brain is in gear before you select your keyboard.
  

Juleskorngold quote    I believe that it is important to focus on the issues that matter to Americans and to choose our leaders based on their positions on these issues. We should not allow our elections to be decided by personal attacks and conspiracy theories.

That Joe Biden is a corrupt President involved in bribery, money laundering, racketeering, and possibly. treason, is no "conspiracy theory."      It just happens to be a fact with the evidence piling up, every day.    But if you wish to adopt the three monkey approach to what is happening around you, then I can only shake my head in pitying wonder at your cognitive abilities.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: No Evidence

@Bogan

I understand that you believe that Joe Biden is a corrupt president and that you have evidence to support your claim. However, I would like to point out that the allegations against him have not been proven in a court of law. In fact, many of the allegations have been debunked by fact-checkers.

For example, the allegation that Biden used his position as vice president to pressure Ukraine to fire a prosecutor who was investigating his son, Hunter Biden, has been repeatedly debunked. The prosecutor in question, Viktor Shokin, was widely seen as corrupt and ineffective, and his removal was supported by the United States and other Western countries.

The allegation that Biden laundered money through his son's business dealings in Ukraine is also unsubstantiated. There is no evidence that Biden or his son engaged in any illegal activity.

The allegation that Biden engaged in racketeering is also unproven. There is no evidence that Biden used his position to extort money from businesses or individuals.

The allegation that Biden committed treason is also serious, but it is important to note that treason is a very specific crime. It is not enough to simply have contact with a foreign government. In order to be convicted of treason, a person must knowingly and willfully betray the United States. There is no evidence that Biden has done anything that meets this standard.

I understand that you may be skeptical of these facts, but I urge you to consider the source of your information. Many of the allegations against Biden have been made by right-wing media outlets and politicians, who have a history of making false and misleading claims about Biden.

I would also like to point out that the burden of proof is on the person making the accusation. In this case, the person accusing Biden of corruption has not provided any credible evidence to support their claim.

In conclusion, I believe that the allegations against Joe Biden are unsubstantiated and unproven. I urge you to consider the source of your information and to demand evidence before making any judgments about Biden's character.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Some of Trump's Crimes

@Bogan

There is strong evidence that Donald Trump has committed crimes, including:

• Obstruction of justice on multiple occasions, including by firing FBI Director James Comey, attempting to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and pressuring witnesses not to cooperate with the Mueller investigation.
• Campaign finance violations: Trump and his former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, have been indicted on charges of campaign finance violations, including paying hush money to women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump.
• Tax evasion: Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017, and he has lost over $1 billion in business ventures over the past two decades.
• Incitement of insurrection: Trump gave a speech to his supporters on January 6th in which he repeated false claims about the election being stolen and encouraged his supporters to "fight like hell." Shortly after Trump's speech, his supporters stormed the Capitol, resulting in five deaths and widespread damage.

MayCaesar

JulesKorngold said:

@MayCaesar

Trump has been accused of mishandling classified documents on multiple occasions. He has also been accused of obstructing justice and of abusing his power. If these accusations are true, then he should be held accountable for his actions.

I do not believe that the parallels between Trump's case and the case of Khodorkovsky are accurate. In Khodorkovsky's case, he was accused of corruption and imprisoned for many years. However, there is evidence to suggest that he was actually imprisoned for political reasons. In Trump's case, he has not been accused of corruption. He has been accused of mishandling classified documents and of obstructing justice. These are serious offenses, but they are not the same as corruption.

I believe that it is important to allow the investigations to proceed without interference. The American people deserve to know the truth about what happened, and they deserve to know whether or not Trump is guilty of any crimes.

I understand that some people believe that the investigation is politically motivated. However, I believe that the evidence shows otherwise. The investigation is being conducted by experienced prosecutors who are committed to upholding the law. I believe that they will follow the evidence wherever it leads, regardless of who it implicates.

I see a lot of "I believe"-s here, but not a lot of logical reasoning. The set of coincidences in this case is extremely high for all of this to be a result of an impartial investigation into a politician's misdoings, and the most likely explanation of it is that the investigation is not impartial. There is no difference between this case and Khodorkovsky as far as I can see, aside from the details of the accusations (which can be anything: if corruption does not work, something else can).

I am not in favor of stopping these investigations, but I am in favor of being very clear and open about their nature. I do not care much for Trump's fate, but it is not about Trump: Trump is just one person. It is about what this system is like. Just as in Khodorkovsky's case, the problem was not that Khodorkovsky was such an amazing guy who everyone loved and they were deprived of their lover's embrace - it was what that sham trial and subsequent imprisonment meant about the nature of the ruling regime. If Khodorkovsky can be eliminated like this, then so can anyone else. You think the political hawks going after Trump will stop at him? Please. Complacency is the best trigger for political cancer that is totalitarianism.

Bogan

@JulesKorngold

Juleskorngold quote     I understand that you believe that Joe Biden is a corrupt president and that you have evidence to support your claim. 

Yes, and I have enumerated them to you in detail, and pointed out that more damning evidence is coming in every day, as more and more disgusted whistleblowers in the URS, the Justice Department, and the FBI come forward to the US congress describing how the flunkies in these organizations appointed by the Democrats are shutting down their lawful investigations and hiding evidence

Juleskorngold quote     However, I would like to point out that the allegations against him have not been proven in a court of law. In fact, many of the allegations have been debunked by fact-checkers.

What allegations?    Who are these "fact checkers", and what has been debunked?     Are they the same "fact checkers" who claimed that Jussie Smollett was beaten up by MAGA hat wearing racists?    Were they the "fact checkers" who claimed for years that Trump was colluding with Russia?     Were they the "fact checkers" who condemned Nicolaus Sandmann and claimed that he was a racist?     Was it the same "fact checkers" who defamed Kylie Rittenhouse and said he was a "far right murderer?"     Was it the same "fact checkers" who whistled and looked the other way when the Mueller report slammed the FBI for investigating Donald Trump entirely upon uncorroborated hearsay?    Was it the same "fact checkers" who laughed at Donald Trump when he correctly said that the Wuhan virus came from that Chinese lab in Wuhan?     Just in case you have not noticed, the left wing media that you have such child like faith in has a bad habit of getting everything wrong and never apologizing for it.

JulesKorngold quote   For example, the allegation that Biden used his position as vice president to pressure Ukraine to fire a prosecutor who was investigating his son, Hunter Biden, has been repeatedly debunked. 

Boing?   Boing?   Boing?    Hey dummy.   Biden is on video tape BRAGGING about how he got the prosecutor fired.     In what must be the most du-mb as-s things that Biden has ever done, he bragged in front of a camera about how he withheld $1 billion is US aid to Ukraine unless the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating his son was fired.    That tape by itself  legally proves that Joe Biden uses US taxpayer money to prevent lawful investigations into his family businesses.     It is exactly like Tony Soprano bragging in front of a camera about how he had somebody whacked.      Honestly Jules,  you have to stop playing video games and have a look around.

Juleskorngold quote      The prosecutor in question, Viktor Shokin, was widely seen as corrupt and ineffective, and his removal was supported by the United States and other Western countries.

It is hard for a prosecutor to do his job when he gets fired by his own government, because his government  wants the $1 billion dollar bribe that Joe is handing out to them to shut down the investigation.

Juleskorngold quote        The allegation that Biden laundered money through his son's business dealings in Ukraine is also unsubstantiated. There is no evidence that Biden or his son engaged in any illegal activity. 

     You must be living in a cave with no electricity to say something as stu-pid as that.      The fibbies have had Hunter Biden's laptop for over four years which listed all of his shady deals.     Even the computer guy who looked at Hunter's data knew it was proof of very illegal activity.    That is why he took it to the FBI who buried it.    Fortunately, he kept a copy and gave it to Rudy Guiliani.     Once again proving that the FBI is running a protection racket for the Biden Crime Family.

Juleskorngold quote  The allegation that Biden engaged in racketeering is also unproven. 

It is very hard to prove when you have the fibbies, the Justice Department, and the IRS running interference for you.      Which is why so many honest and admirable FBI and IRS have approached the US congress complaining about how their lawful investigations are being shut down by the Biden appointed guys at the top of their departmental trees.   THAT, my dear Jules, is called "corruption."

Juleskorngold quote    There is no evidence that Biden used his position to extort money from businesses or individuals.

Then why has he got 20 shell companies (so far identified) moving money around which eventually ends up in the bank accounts of his family members, including grandkids?     How does Joe afford to have four mansions on his public service salary?      Where did the (so far) $10 million dollars which was disbursed though these shell companies to Biden family members come from?    What was it paid for?    Did he pay tax on the money?    Oh, I am sorry, we will never know if he paid tax on this money because the high ups in the IRS shut down the investigation into Biden tax dodging.    Which is why two honest investigators contacted James Comey from the US Congressional Oversight committee about this outrage.    

Could I say something here?     How is it that an Australian living in Australia knows a lot more about what is happening in the USA than a US citizen who seems to know nothing more than what the Fake News press will tell him?      For God's sake, it is in the interests of your country that you root out the corruption which is turning your country into a one party Democratic controlled state.

Juleskorngold quote The allegation that Biden committed treason is also serious, but it is important to note that treason is a very specific crime. It is not enough to simply have contact with a foreign government. In order to be convicted of treason, a person must knowingly and willfully betray the United States. There is no evidence that Biden has done anything that meets this standard.

According to James Comey, who heads the Congressional Oversight Committee, Hunter Biden has taken money from Chinese companies who are fronts for the Chinese government.    What he was paid for, nobody knows.      That is what the Republicans really want to know, and what the FBI and the CIA are trying to hide.     China is not a friendly adversary.    It is a hostile state.     If the Chinese have bribed the Biden family, that is extremely serious.    For one, he is compromised, and they have him on a string.    Second, it is treason.      All that we know is that Joe seems to be overly generous towards China.     According to one site I watched on youtube, Trump enacted a law preventing the sale or transfer of sensitive US technology to China.    The first thing Biden did when he came to power was to rescind that law.    Then there was Biden never criticizing the Chinese government for the release of the Wuhan virus which killed millions of Americans.  +   Lastly, was the infamous spy balloon.     Why the hell would any sane President let a Chinese spy balloon fly over the entire length of the USA without shooting it down?      It was only because a couple of people in Montana saw the damned thing that the Pentagon even acknowledged it's existence.      Was Joe frightened to give the order to shoot it down because the Chinese had the goods on him?   And he only gave the order because it as too much of an embarrassment to ignore it any longer?    

Juleskorngold quote    I understand that you may be skeptical of these facts, but I urge you to consider the source of your information. Many of the allegations against Biden have been made by right-wing media outlets and politicians, who have a history of making false and misleading claims about Biden.

Au contraire, Jules.    The right wing press has a well appreciated reputation for getting it right.   Fox is the most trusted news service in the USA.     CNN plunged from number 1 to 23 because it keeps getting everything wrong, like that infamous report where the reporter stood in from of a burning building during an ANTIFA riot and said that the protests were "mostly peaceful."     How can any person who has a brain not see that and know that they are not only being lied to, they are being treated like fo-ols, if the network thinks it can show something like that and pretend it is something else?

Juleskorngold quote       I would also like to point out that the burden of proof is on the person making the accusation. In this case, the person accusing Biden of corruption has not provided any credible evidence to support their claim.

The Congressional Oversight Committee is right on it, Jules.   And what they have got so far is damning.   The only problem is, that the FBI, the DOJ, and the IRS is run by Bidn appointed stooges who hide evidence and won't prosecute even the most egregious examples of criminal behavior by a Biden.     How about the pictures of Hunter smoking crack and waving an illegally purchased gun around?    The fibbis and the DOJ have had that damning evidence for over four years and have done nothing.     If that was any other person, they would have been charged, tried, convicted, and jailed within three months.    And then you pretend that "there is no proof."   Ama-a-a-a-zing.

Juleskorngold quote   In conclusion, I believe that the allegations against Joe Biden are unsubstantiated and unproven. I urge you to consider the source of your information and to demand evidence before making any judgments about Biden's character.

"Elephant?" says Juleskorngold.   "What elephant?"

Juleskorngold quote    There is strong evidence that Donald Trump has committed crimes, including:   Obtruction of justice on multiple occasions, including by firing FBI Director James Comey, attempting to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller, and pressuring witnesses not to cooperate with the Mueller investigation.

Heard it all before ad nauseum for four years.     They alleged Trump did everything wrong under the sun for 5 years and impeached him twice, and he walked.     The problem that the corrupt Dems have is "how do you get rid of a popular leader without becoming unpopular yourself?"     Solution?    Just keep chucking mud in the belief that some of it will stick.    

Juleskorngold quote   Campaign finance violations: Trump and his former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, have been indicted on charges of campaign finance violations, including paying hush money to women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump.

Oh, for God's sake!    You are talking about that farce where that id-iot prosecutor, Alvin Bragg, has brought charges against Trump which are so feeble that even Merrick Garland and his corrupt DOJ would not touch it with a barge pole.     The same Alvin Bragg who has turned New York into a crime ridden hell hole while he prosecutes ex marines who step in to protect passengers on a subway car from a violent nut case.

Juleskorngold quote   Tax evasion: Trump paid just $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017, and he has lost over $1 billion in business ventures over the past two decades.

Oh rubbish.    If Trump was guilty of tax evasion, it would be a heaven sent opportunity for Biden and his whole corrupt administration to lock him up forever.    The fact that they have not done so is clear proof that your "fact' is a fantasy.

Juleskorngold quote     Incitement of insurrection: Trump gave a speech to his supporters on January 6th in which he repeated false claims about the election being stolen and encouraged his supporters to "fight like hell." Shortly after Trump's speech, his supporters stormed the Capitol, resulting in five deaths and widespread damage.

If they could have prosecuted him for that, they would have done so.    Obviously, even Merrick Garland and the DOJ. who are desperate to find something, anything,. to charge Donald Trump in order to get rid of their most popular political rival, can not make a legal mountain out of that molehill.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Lock Him Up

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Accountability Again

@MayCaesar
The best way to prevent totalitarianism is to uphold the rule of law and hold those in power accountable.  Even former presidents.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Not Quite

@Bogan said:   Fox is the most trusted news service in the USA.

Bullsh*t.  According to a 2022 survey by the Pew Research Center, only 21% of Americans say they trust Fox News "a great deal" or "a fair amount." This is significantly lower than the trust levels for other major news organizations, such as CNN (42%), MSNBC (38%), and the New York Times (36%).

There are a number of reasons why people don't trust Fox News. One reason is that Fox News is a conservative-leaning news organization, and its coverage of news events is often seen as being strongly biased in favor of conservative viewpoints. Additionally, Fox News uses opinion programming, its hosts tend to make false or misleading statements and engage in fear-mongering and propaganda.

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

Just saying trusted for what protecting United States Constitutional rights, that isn't happening...

MayCaesar

JulesKorngold said:

@MayCaesar
The best way to prevent totalitarianism is to uphold the rule of law and hold those in power accountable.  Even former presidents.

This certainly cannot be true given that those in power are the only ones legally allowed to do so. It is, in fact, an essential part of the totalitarian playbook: to go after your political opponents while claiming that you are merely upholding the rule of law. This routinely happens to politicians and enterpreneurs in China, where the government under the guise of "upholding the rule of law" selectively punishes "corrupt" individuals while letting other individuals who happen to love the Communist Party of China be.

Why are you not more skeptical of the government's claims? Is skepticism towards those who hold the power the foundation of opposition to totalitarianism? Or is it only so when the claim does not happen to align with your personal political preferences?

Bogan

Hi Jules.   I was noy able to reply to your last post yesterday, because for some unfathomable reason, debateIsland would not accept my username and password.

Juleskorngold quote   Bullsh*t.  According to a 2022 survey by the Pew Research Center, only 21% of Americans say they trust Fox News "a great deal" or "a fair amount." This is significantly lower than the trust levels for other major news organizations, such as CNN (42%), MSNBC (38%), and the New York Times (36%).

If you think that you are really are well informed, then this might be an opportunity to display to you how you are being lied to?.     I would opine that a "research Centre" claiming to poll people on who they trust is worthless?     Here in Australia, the pollsters get it so wrong when predicting election outcomes that nobody takes any notice of them any wore..     What really denotes trust is ratings.    What Pew Research says about ratings I just don't know.   But Fox has been bragging about being number one for a couple of years now.   Not does Fox claim to be number 1, they have produced graphs on their talk shows displaying an interesting fact.     CNN's ratings are in the toilet and most of the former CNN audience, who we can assume is left wing, are for the most part not changing to another left wing media outlet.   Fox's research claims that most of them are switching to Fox.    

 Pew Research's xlaim that CNN is trusted twic as much as Fox sure looks susso when you remember that the CNN management sacked CNN's producer in orer to prevent the continuous slide in ratings that CNN was experiencing.     The owners of CNN realised that if they did not do something to stop CNN simply being an extreme left advocacy organization instead of areasonably impartial new sorganisation (which it used to be), their media platform would go bankrupt for lack of an audience.  So, the CNN management brought in a new CEO to bring some balanced reportage and try to restore CNN's credibility.       This new CEO insisted that CNN stop being an extreme left activist organization and instead, at least pretend to engage in fair and impartial reportage.    He sacked Brian Steltor because Steltor is a half wit who's "hate Trump, hate Trump, hate Trump" rhetoric was so all pervasive, that even people who were leery of Trump thought it was over the top.    

The new CEO also sacked Don Lemon, because Lemon was a quarter wit, who was so gaffe prone that he was becoming an embarrassment.      The biggest ratings that CNN had for years was when the new CEO insisted that Donald Trump should be interviewed.    Trump made a complete fool out of the snooty leftist female interviewer while the live audience cheered him on.     This lead to howls of outrage from the left leaning press, some of whom actually demanded that Donald Trump, a presidential candidate, be not be given any air time on a media program.     Think about that.   There are media people who actually think that the leading Presidential candidate should not be interviewed on CNN.     These lefties are off dancing with the fairies.     And you think that they a \re smart?

But the new CEO's reform agenda was dashed upon the rocks of the CNN staff, who don't appear to be journalists fearlessly seeking the truth, just left wing activists fearlessly seeking a new cultural revolution where government bureaucracies and a tame Democratic Party, lord it over the deplorable peasantry and tell them what they must do.     Usurpingly, the news today has heralded that the owner of CNN now wants to sell the network.     He has given up any hope that his crazy employees can ever again be journalists.   And you are trying to tell me that CNN is twice as trusted as Fox?      Yeah, sure they are.

Juleskorngold quote   There are a number of reasons why people don't trust Fox News. One reason is that Fox News is a conservative-leaning news organization, and its coverage of news events is often seen as being strongly biased in favor of conservative viewpoints. Additionally, Fox News uses opinion programming, its hosts tend to make false or misleading statements and engage in fear-mongering and propaganda.

I compare Fox and the sorts of lefty news media that you seem so enamoured of.   Fox keeps presenting credible personalities to give their expert opinions, people with whom I usually agree.    The left wing news organizations are not only seriously gaffe prone, they refuse to acknowledge when they get it wrong.     How many times did they lambaste Trump when he said that the Coronavirus virus probably started in the Wuhan lab?      They sneered at him for months, and then when it became obvious that Trump was right, they claimed that "new evidence" seemes to show that the virus was manufactured in a lab", without acknowledging that Trump was right, and for several months they were wrong.

How about "The View?"     You get five seriously mentally deficient females saying all sorts of stu-id things about everything.     Remember when Whoopi Goldberg got suspended for claiming that the Nazi persecution of Jews was not racism, "because Jews are white"?     As for "fact checkers".   Here in Australia our taxpayer funded news media (ABC) had a "fact checking" program called "Insiders."     It was so gaffe prone and partial that it spawned a counter program on Sky News called "Outsiders", who delighted in fact checking the left wing fact checkers on "Insiders", and laughing at them when they got it wrong.    Which was nearly all of the time.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Trust vs Ratings

@Bogan said:  What really denotes trust is ratings. 

More bullsh*t. High ratings of a news show do NOT mean it is highly trusted.

People may watch a news show for reasons other than trust. For example, they may watch a news show because it is entertaining, or because they agree with the political views of the hosts.

Even if people trust a news show, they may not watch it regularly. This is because there are many different news shows available, and people may only watch a few of them regularly.

Ratings can be influenced by factors other than trust. For example, a news show may have high ratings because it is the only news show available in a particular time slot for that viewing area.

Bogan

@JulesKorngold

Juleskorngold quote     More bullsh*t. High ratings of a news show do NOT mean it is highly trusted.

The most interesting aspect of dealing with people like yourself who hold illogical beliefs, is how you refuse to make the simplest of connections which go against your belief system.     Of course people prefer to watch media that they trust.    I suppose you also think that a man can be a woman if he just wishes it to be so?      And legalizing shoplifting as well as defunding the police will not cause retailers to flee the anarchy?

Juleskorngold quote    People may watch a news show for reasons other than trust. For example, they may watch a news show because it is entertaining, or because they agree with the political views of the hosts.   

Political views are hardly entertaining if you strongly oppose what the presenter is saying.  I myself, have to hold myself back from throwing something at my TV screen whenever I watch the Australian ABC< which never stops whining about the three "R's.   (Refugees, Reconciliation, Republic)  Their views would instill a flush of annoyance, or a desire to grab the presenter by the throat and shake some sense into their silly left wing heads.

Juleskorngold quote    Even if people trust a news show, they may not watch it regularly. This is because there are many different news shows available, and people may only watch a few of them regularly.    Ratings can be influenced by factors other than trust. For example, a news show may have high ratings because it is the only news show available in a particular time slot for that viewing area.

You seem to be trying to rationalize around an inconvenient truth that you prefer to do the three monkey thing on?     People who wish to be politically and socially informed prefer to watch that media they trust to be impartial, although it may have opinion programs which feature people that they more or less trust to analyze and explain the significance of news stories.

One news story that broke yesterday that you did not want to know about is that the crack cocaine smoking, gun waving, tax dodging son of the President that you think is squeaky clean, just got the sweetheart deal of all sweetheart deals as to his his prosecution by the DOJ.    Anyone but a Biden who failed to pay a $2 million tax bill would have been jailed.     Anyone but a Biden who falsified a gun license by not admitting to his addiction who have been jailed as well.  But the DoJ is so politicized and corrupt, that the guys running it will misuse the law to protect their political allies.    And also, of course, misuse it to go after their political opponents with any charge they can trump up.   And you think that Merrick Garland and the department heads in the IRS, DoJ, and FBI are just doing their jobs impartially?     Ama-a-a-azing.

Of course, throughout his political career, Joe Biden was a table thumping law ad order guy, always demanding tougher penalties for tax dodgers, drug consumers, and people who misuse guns.    But that does not apply to his son, of course.    My advice to you, is to see if you can obtain the old movie "Elmer Gantry" starring Burt Lancaster, and see if you can make the connection between the sort of hypocritical virtue signaling behaviour Joe Biden exhibits, and Elmer Gantry?      

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: They're Entertainers, Not Trusted Reporters

@Bogan

Fox News refers to its hosts as "opinion hosts" or "commentators" rather than reporters. This is because they often offer their own personal opinions on the news, rather than simply reporting the facts. They may also use humor, sarcasm, and other forms of entertainment to make their points.

Bogan

@JulesKorngold ;   Juleskorngold quote     Fox News refers to its hosts as "opinion hosts" or "commentators" rather than reporters. This is because they often offer their own personal opinions on the news, rather than simply reporting the facts. They may also use humor, sarcasm, and other forms of entertainment to make their points.

 

Media organisations usually consist of two divisions, one division which is supposed to simply inform the public of news events, and another consisting of political pundits who examine the significance of breaking news stories, and how this will affect the public.    This is common among media of both the left and the right.   I have no idea why you are telling me what I already know, as if it is some sort of revelation from you?     Although, the tone of your information seems to suggest that if right wing media does it, it is doing something insidious?

 

I would really like to understand why you think as you do?     You have said that you despise Donald Trump because he is “divisive”.     I have no idea how you come to that conclusion? Especially when it looks obvious to me that it is the Dems who are stoking up racial hatred, as well as trying to turn the young against the old with their “Human Induced Climate Change” cult.    So too, it is the Dems who are stoking the fires of intolerance with their advocacy of absolutely absurd ideas on “transgender” equality, which is making the USA (and many other western countries) the laughing stock of the whole world.

 

I can not understand how any rational person with a triple digit IQ can once again fall for the empty promises of socialism, which has a perfect record of total failure within every nation which was du-mb enough to embrace it?     I can not understand how it is that you think that the Biden administration and the Biden family itself, are not intrinsically corrupt?     The latest example being the way in which Hunter Biden has escaped a long jail sentence for a series of serious crimes, including unlicensed influence peddling, serious tax evasion involving millions of dollars in unpaid taxes, and a serious firearms charge?     There are other glaring examples of the US dual justice system which should really concern you, but strangely, it does not.    I wonder why that is so?

 

Do you really want a Russian or Chinese style totalitarian state where senior administration officials collude with rich oligarchs to control the US population, through total control of the media, the persecution of political opponents, and the misuse of the judicial system to go after anybody that the Democratic Party and their tame administration, sees as a threat to their power and position?

 

I have often wondered at how much opposition the intelligent people in Russia, Cambodia,  North Korea, Iran, and so many other intelligent people in other countries put up when they realised that more than half of their populations had gone stark raving cra-zy, and were advocating to instal a totalitarian system of government which would enslave them forever?     And here we are in 2023, and around half of the US population has gone crazy too.   They support the Biden administration with it’self evident corruption, influence peddling, election interference, persecution of political opponents, media manipulation, political censorship by stealth, and it’s two tiered justice system, where the Democratic party’s elite of pseudo aristocratic family members can get away with anything.    

 

And you not only refuse to see what is happening right before your eyes, you even support it?    Ama-a-a-azing.