Is being gay a choice?

theinfectedmaster

Argument Topic: I think it goes both ways.

I think some people are born being gay, and I think other people choose to be gay.

John_C_87

Is being gay a choice? 

It is an accusation? 
Is it a confession?
Is it both?
Who's choice is it?
When does it become one person's choice?

John_C_87

According to United States held as state of the union with established law, we hold something equal by just simply giving those rights in question a clear labeling. American United State Constitutional held men created as equal are possibly described as Binivir. I have met little of any legal objection and only criminal objection to this self-evident truth over the period of not less than 30 years. The mistake I constantly here is a man may presume he may be called wife by how they may dress or act. Untrue as whole truth. A man cannot become pregnant and lose their life by fulfilling that pregnancies obligation to a nation or international immigration. I am sorry…

theinfectedmaster

@John_C_87 People choose who their in love with. It becomes a person's choice if a person decides that men aren't for them.

theinfectedmaster

@John_C_87 I don't believe being gay is an accusation though. I believe it can be a confession if someone comes out as gay though, so know it don't think it's both.

John_C_87

@theinfectedmaster ;

 I don't believe being gay is an accusation though. 
So people are never said to be gay in descussions between two or more people in the gedneral public? 

just_sayin

The idea of a gay gene has been dispelled.  Further none of the hormonal biological theories are promising with many studies showing that a higher percentage of heterosexuals have the "it" factor that "causes" gayness than the gay community.  I don't think that most gay people make a determined "choice" to be gay.  I think environment and subtle thoughts along the way shape them.  It would be hard to argue that gay attraction can be reduced to biological terms when there are so many identical twins where one is gay and the other are not.  

Barnardot

@theinfectedmaster ;I just wanted to know what anyone thinks about this.

I reckon that you just didn't want to know what any one thinks because I think all your interested in is what you think which is that your homerphobic. Because why didn't you ask why straights choose to be straight or why all people choose to be the way they are. No you singled out homos because you hate them and want to stir up sexist baloney.

John_C_87

What is it called when a person is allowed to dictate what a witness can say they see officially?
The question to ask. Is gay a perfect choice as connection to established justice? What is the best description to be made concerning the identity of two men. Could it be Latin for two men Binivir or something else that requires the voter describe as united state an invasion of privacy? 

Good thing no one in Congress, media, and any private or public legal counsel recognizes, understands, or  known what a perjury may look like as a crime otherwise this world would not be allowed to plague America with the largest and longest voter fraud the world has ever know...

Alibi one: ”It must be how the Supreme Court votes not the democratic part of the republic votes.”

Alibi two: "Had they only taught this in school, we would understand our crime and could then be punished for it in a court of law. An idea to Big to fail? The people are now just to be presumed innocent forever, that's just like having been proven not guilty in a court of law."  isn't it?

Vaulk

Argument Topic: Is it a choice?

I used to think it was.  It didn't click for me until I tried to apply the logic backwards and discovered something.  

Ask yourself this: Right now, in this very moment, could you decide to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex and ACTUALLY get turned on by the idea of having sex with them?  If not...then your choice doesn't play a part in your sexual attraction and therefor it's not a choice.

I'm straight, always been straight, I don't find any sexual appeal in Men and honestly I don't understand the attraction.  I cannot look at a Man, even if I tried and focused REAL hard for an hour, and become sexually aroused by the thought of him being naked or the thought of engaging in homosexual acts with him.  Since I can't choose to feel that way, it's not physically possible, then sexual attraction (Which is a feeling) is beyond your choice and being gay, lesbian, straight are not choices to be made.

Bogan

What determines human behavior is a combination of nature and nurture.     By "nature", I mean genetic encoding.    By "nurture", I mean the behaviour programmed into every person by their parents, society, and culture.

Homosexual behaviour is primarily genetic.      But some people are not necessarily homosexual or heterosexual.    For some people, there are many shades of grey.     One individual may have some homosexual tendencies which he or she suppresses throughout their lives because they have been culturally conditioned by their culture to think that such behaviour is wrong.     Others may be entirely heterosexual, but may dabble in homosexuality because it is presented to them by their peers as fashionable or progressive behaviour.      You can not cure homosexuality from the first group because it is innate and they can not change their genetic coding, even if they wanted to.    Sigmund Freud lived in a time when homosexuality was utterly despised by society, and he had many homosexual patients who were dysfunctional because they really did believe that their homosexual tendencies were wrong and disgusting, but they could not change how they felt.    Such patients often exhibited bizarre behaviour to compensate for the inner turmoil they were experiencing.     You can cure members of the second group because their behaviour is culturally conditioned, and it can be culturally conditioned right back out of them.

MayCaesar

I have always thought that it was a product of complex interaction between one's biological framework and the environment. It is known quite well that the fraction of gays in various societies is highly variable, even when corrections to discriminatory effects making people hide their "gay-ness" are applied - this is not what one would expect if the environment was not a factor here. Consider also that the male population in the more prosperous societies tend to be more feminine - for instance, the average man from Russia likely will cause far less attraction among gays than the average man from Japan.

Now, I do not think that it is a "choice" per se: one cannot just say out of the blue, "I choose to be gay", and become one. However, one certainly can make certain choices in life in order to either embrace and further their "gay aspect", or to suppress it - to various degrees of success (I have heard from people who claim that they used to be bisexual, but conditioned themselves to lose all attraction towards people of their gender). It is hard to imagine that someone attracted only to men can condition themselves to be attracted only to women, but someone attracted to both can probably choose to focus on one and tilt the scale somewhat.

John_C_87

We often act as if no one is ever told they are gay?

There are many social issues between a man and a woman where the easier idea, the more realistic understanding for a female opinion to share with her or his friends is a male or female must be gay or lesbian for an intimate relationship between the male and female coupe fail horribly. This must be the form of the climate predicted in the 80 during the HIV impact, a change created by discrimination and an overabundant volume of civil litigations to place the burdens of upholding United States Constitutional Right on others and not the persons who have been created as victim by a creation of imperfect state if the union. In a whole truth a witness under 18 years of age cannot be asked to witness gay on a legal level. Whereas the same person can be asked if they have witness two men. Binvir or Uno’s mulier as a state if the union.

There is way too much effort spent on witness tampering and only discrimination crimes by inappropriate use of legal prejudice. Something that is obvious to be taking place as it is in a number United States Constitutional Amendments and not just one Amendment.

jack

Argument Topic: Is being gay a choice?

theinfectedmaster said:

Is being gay a choice?

Hello the:

For some it is.. We call them bi-sexuals.  For others, it's not..  We call them heterosexuals.

excon

John_C_87

jack said:

theinfectedmaster said:

Is being gay a choice?

Hello the:

For some it is.. We call them bi-sexuals or homosexual.  For others, it's not..  We call them heterosexuals.

excon

Hope you don't mind tweeked out what you said just a little...

just_sayin

@Vaulk

I used to think it was.  It didn't click for me until I tried to apply the logic backwards and discovered something.  

Ask yourself this: Right now, in this very moment, could you decide to be sexually attracted to the opposite sex and ACTUALLY get turned on by the idea of having sex with them?  If not...then your choice doesn't play a part in your sexual attraction and therefor it's not a choice.

I think your argument is flawed.  Because someone has lived a certain way, and daily had thoughts that ran in a certain direction, it is naturally more difficult for them to change, no matter we are trying to change.  If someone has lived in an abusive relationship it is more difficult for them to have a normal relationship and often they run back to the abusive relationship, it doesn't mean they were born with the "abuse me" gene.  Again, research shows there is no gay gene.  Further, research shows that other biological factors that some have touted are much more common among heterosexuals than same-sex attracted persons, further debunking the idea.  

People are shaped one thought at a time and by their environment.  Just because it is hard to unwire someone's patterns, does not mean that they are biological and can not be changed.  Imagine if a pedophile told you that they must have been born that way.  They might say "I must have been born this way, do you think I would choose to be like this?"  Now those who don't believe we are each responsible for our own conduct would try to say they were born with the "pedo" gene, but truth be told, they made choices along the way.  Oh their environment may have acted like a current in a river to pull them along, but they made a choice to sexually assault a child.  Now pedophiles are not the same as homosexuals.  I use the analogy only to point out that we can always rationalize away our own thought and choices and easily claim we are just the victims of our genes and environments when the truth is we do have choices - even with whom we sleep with.

Vaulk

just_sayin said:

@Vaulk

I think your argument is flawed.  Because someone has lived a certain way, and daily had thoughts that ran in a certain direction, it is naturally more difficult for them to change, no matter we are trying to change.  

Ok, well I never suggested that it's not difficult, and the argument that change is difficult does nothing to negate that it's not possible to decide on your sexual attraction. Unless you're suggesting that it's impossible...because it's difficult?  Addressing my statement that it's not possible to decide to "Feel" a sexual attraction towards someone of the same or opposite sex with a response that indicates that I'm wrong simple because "It's difficult" isn't enough in the way of reasoning to prove that my argument is flawed.  So I would agree with you that it is VERY difficult to change especially when we're going in the opposite direction that we've always gone...but change isn't impossible in most cases.  With sexual attraction though, that's not a thought or behavior...it's a feeling. 

So:

1. Are you suggesting that we can manipulate our own feelings? 
2. Can we decide not to experience feelings of anger in the least over things that naturally make us angry?
3. Things that normally make us sad like the loss of a parent or loved one, could we simply decide not to experience those feelings at all?

If the answer is no, then you, I, us all...we're not in control of what we feel.  We can control how we respond, we can control what choices we make as a result of the feelings...but the feelings themselves are beyond our control.  Sure you could suppress them, and sure trauma can dull or even damage them...but willful control of them...I don't think there's any evidence that it can be done.  No one is ever in control of their feelings, instead we're just in control of how we handle them.  

While there are multiple factors in play regarding sexual attraction, it is acknowledged by the American Psychological Association as being a biologically driven feeling.  Yes that feeling can manifest physiologically and it can cause or influence thoughts but the feeling of sexual desire towards another Human is just that...it's a feeling.  To my knowledge, no one decides what to feel.  There can be social influences on your sexual attraction but, again, no one is making a cognitive decision about what to feel regarding sexual attraction.  

As to there being no such thing as a "Gay gene"...I don't doubt it.  To my knowledge there isn't a gay gene.  There's also no Straight gene, Psychopath gene, Sociopath gene, Narcissist gene, Asexual gene, and that's because it's not a genetic marker...but your feelings aren't genetic.  There is no love gene, hate gene, jealousy gene, anger gene...and that's because feelings aren't genetic.  This is why a boy raised by two gay Men can just as easily develop sexual attraction for members of the opposite sex as they can for members of the same sex.  Offspring from Straight families who were raised never having been exposed to anything gay or lesbian can end up having raging sexual attraction towards members of the same sex.  So if what you're saying is true that social and environmental influence shape your sexual attraction...why do kids from straight families who have had exclusive or almost exclusive upbringing in straight social and environmental influence end up being gay?  If you can't choose to suddenly feel sexually attracted to someone from the same sex...what makes you think they can?  And if they can't...doesn't that mean that they feel sexually attracted naturally?

In response to your last statement: just_sayin said:

@Vaulk

I use the analogy only to point out that we can always rationalize away our own thought and choices and easily claim we are just the victims of our genes and environments when the truth is we do have choices - even with whom we sleep with.

You've missed the entire argument and I invite you to join in with me.  We ARE NOT talking about the choices people make...instead we're talking about what people feel.  That's why I used the test: Can you choose to be sexually attracted to someone of the sex that you're not attracted to.  The answer is no and that's because it's not a choice, it's a feeling.  you have successfully conflated feelings with actions...and they are not one and the same.

On your point of pedophiles, I'm not sure I agree with anything you said.  There are currently (That we know of) 2.13 Million species on the planet.  If every species on the planet had a consistent habit of producing at least one offspring per generation that attempted to kill all of its other offspring then we'd say that's natural among all species.  Pedophilia and Homosexuality have both existed in every State, in every Continent, in every Society, in every Culture, in every Country, in every City, in every Time Period....since the beginning of Human History.  But you don't think it's natural?  When there's more historic evidence of its existence than the lack of it...I'd say it's par for the course in Human History.  I suppose you don't think violence is natural either?

 

John_C_87

Is being homossexual reason for not declaring a couple Binvir by Common law to distrubute common owned property by the courts?