What’s our biggest problem as a country?

jack

raisin98 said:

What’s our biggest problem as a country?

Hello raisin:

The rise of fascism and the death of democracy..

excon

anarchist100

jack said:

raisin98 said:

What’s our biggest problem as a country?

Hello raisin:

The rise of fascism and the death of democracy..

excon

Oh boo hoo.

anarchist100

Americans, they're the biggest problem for America, and also the biggest problem for humanity.

Bogan

As the former Prime Minister of Japan Nusahiro Nakasone once remarked "The USA was once a great country, but now there are too many Africans, Hispanics, and Puerto Ricans dragging the country down."       While westerners try an fail to prove that races are equal, the smarter Asians do not want a bar of trouble prone and always dysfunctional minorities.

This is how ideas are tested.    Different people have different ideologies and this becomes a competition of ideas.    The cultures which win are thinking straight,     The cultures which persist in continuing to advocate for failing ideas go into decline.   Asia is advancing while the west is declining.  

MayCaesar

The discussion is ongoing, and here I am, still confused who "we" are and what "country" we are talking about...

JulesKorngold

The biggest problem facing the USA is a complex one, and there is no single answer that will satisfy everyone. However, some of the most commonly cited problems include:

• Economic inequality. The gap between the rich and the poor in the USA is growing, and this is leading to a number of social problems, such as poverty, crime, and poor health.
• Political polarization. The two major political parties in the USA, the Democrats and the Republicans, are becoming increasingly divided, and this is making it difficult to address many of the country's problems.
• Healthcare. The USA has one of the most expensive healthcare systems in the world, and millions of Americans lack access to affordable healthcare.
• Education. The quality of education in the USA varies widely, and many students from low-income families do not receive the education they need to succeed.
• Climate change. The USA is a major contributor to climate change, and this is already having a negative impact on the country, in the form of more extreme weather events and rising sea levels.

These are just a few of the biggest problems facing the USA today. It is important to note that these problems are interconnected, and addressing one problem will often require addressing others.

It is also important to note that there is no easy solution to any of these problems. 

John_C_87

@raisin98

Literally, the biggest problem facing a Country today is background radiation in outer space.

Bogan

@JulesKorngold

·         Economic inequality. The gap between the rich and the poor in the USA is growing, and this is leading to a number of social problems, such as poverty, crime, and poor health.

 

Of course poverty will increase if you keep importing poverty and keep allowing the du-mbest members of your society to breed like flies while you subsidise their ever increasing numbers with welfare.    How about the US government linl welfare payments to the number of illegitimate children?   Like is an unwed mother has one illegitimate child, she gets full welfare, if the has two, it is reduced, and if she has three, it is reduced again.   It is called "toughlove."          Western welfare spending is financially unsupportable and it is only a matter of time before every western country will be bankrupt. unless we all start thinking straight on this issue.    

 Example 1.    Black African man fathers 40 children.

 (26) Court Cam: Judge Reprimands Father of 40 CHILDREN (S3) | A&E - YouTube

 Example 2.   Man fathers 21 children by 11 different women... and he's only 29

A man aged 29 has fathered 21 children with 11 different women, it emerged yesterday.

Desmond Hatchett's brood came to light after authorities in Tennessee in the U.S. took him to court for non-payment of child support.     He has apparently set a U.S. record but said: 'It just happened.'     He's the daddy: Desmond Hatchett speaks to reporters about his prolific brood    He added that he would not have any more children. 'I'm done. I'll say I'm done,' he said.     Hatchett, who earns a minimal wage, told TV reporters he knows the names and ages of all his offspring.      Their ages range from newborn to 11 years old.    Authorities in Knoxville said they plan to take half of his monthly salary to pay for the youngsters but officials said that would work out to just over £1 a week for each.     His lawyer Keith Pope said: 'The children can't all be supported by Desmond, so the state of Tennessee has had to step in.'

Many Knoxville residents called for him to be castrated.

He even boasted of fathering four children by different women in the same year.    Hatchett's name appeared on court documents 11 times representing 15 of his 21  children.   U.S. authorities are now braced for more women coming forward to claim Hatchett is the father of their children after he appeared on local TV.    He said the women he was involved with all knew he had other children.    One mother, who has two children with Hatchett, said she should get £44 a month but rarely receives any child support.    'It's frustrating, but usually, when I ask he gives it to me,' she said.

Authorities in Knoxville ordered Hatchett to court  to explain how he intends to pay child support.    He arrived for the hearing with just over $600.

 

 Political polarization. The two major political parties in the USA, the Democrats and the Republicans, are becoming increasingly divided, and this is making it difficult to address many of the country's problems.

 Of course western politics is becoming divided.        The left side of politics has realised that the more useless, dysfunctional, and fast breeding minorities it both imports and panders too, the more likely it will win and keep office.        The Right side of politics is in a quandary.     Because minorities who for the most part are unable to compete against smarter ethnicities keep increasing in numbers, that some members of the Right try to be the Left Light in order to attract dysfunctional minority (soon to be the majority) votes. 

 

  Healthcare. The USA has one of the most expensive healthcare systems in the world, and millions of Americans lack access to affordable healthcare.

 If the USA and other western countries keep importing ethnicities who have proven to be largely dysfunctional, crime prone, and welfare dependent, then whatever health care the USA has is going to get worse.

 

  Education. The quality of education in the USA varies widely, and many students from low-income families do not receive the education they need to succeed.

 Just as in crime and welfare dependency, there is a direct connection between ethnicity, the cost of education, and educational outcomes.      “Black” cities in the USA are noted for their high education costs, overpaid public service teachers, and poor education outcomes.        White and Asian communities spend less on education than black communities and get much better outcomes.    it is not hard to figure out why.   

 

  Climate change. The USA is a major contributor to climate change, and this is already having a negative impact on the country, in the form of more extreme weather events and rising sea levels.

·          The problem here is that well meaning people like JulesKorngold refuse to undertake even the most basic research to understand which side of this scientific debate is correct.     This is easy to do today, as the number of “sceptics” keeps increasing and the number of “sceptic” sites on Youtube keep increasing.       Even Bill Gates has said publicly that ACC is “exaggerated.”     Jules is unable to fathom that Anthropogenic Climate Change is a hoax used by the Left to create a false “crisis” that only the Left recognizes and can solve.     It also allows the Left to frighten the productive public into accepting ever higher taxation, and to appeal to the progeny of the middle class, who have become so narcissistic that virtue signaling is all they care about.  

MayCaesar

JulesKorngold said:

The biggest problem facing the USA is a complex one, and there is no single answer that will satisfy everyone. However, some of the most commonly cited problems include:

• Economic inequality. The gap between the rich and the poor in the USA is growing, and this is leading to a number of social problems, such as poverty, crime, and poor health.
• Political polarization. The two major political parties in the USA, the Democrats and the Republicans, are becoming increasingly divided, and this is making it difficult to address many of the country's problems.
• Healthcare. The USA has one of the most expensive healthcare systems in the world, and millions of Americans lack access to affordable healthcare.
• Education. The quality of education in the USA varies widely, and many students from low-income families do not receive the education they need to succeed.
• Climate change. The USA is a major contributor to climate change, and this is already having a negative impact on the country, in the form of more extreme weather events and rising sea levels.

These are just a few of the biggest problems facing the USA today. It is important to note that these problems are interconnected, and addressing one problem will often require addressing others.

It is also important to note that there is no easy solution to any of these problems. 

You are using ChatGPT to generate most of your responses, are you not? I interact with ChatGPT a lot, and this is exactly the style of responses I am used to.

I put this particular response into an AI content detector, and the result was "99.9% probability for AI'.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Close Guess

@MayCaesar
Nope.  I'm not using ChatGPT.  I'm using Google Bard.  It produces better debate responses than 95% of the debaters here - including me.

MayCaesar

@JulesKorngold

I do not think so. One thing AIs have not mastered yet is writing things that feel "alive". The texts they produce always have that eerie vibe to them, as if they did not come from a human soul, but were engineered by some undead creatures. Their humor feels forced and unnatural, their information summaries dry and technical, and their arguments generic.

When someone asks you about the biggest problem in their country, they want to hear what you feel strongly about and why. They do not want a technical summary of a few issues taken from the politburo's plenum program. They want to hear something relatable, and you provide something extremely unrelatable. No human can read what you wrote and say, "Aha, I see where he is coming from". You are not coming from anywhere, and the text you posted is a result of cold synthesis of words of millions of people.

One thought that comes from you in the context of a debate is worth a billion times as much as an essay that comes from a machine.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: So...?

@MayCaesar
I agree with the Bard response.  What do you disagree with?  Debate.

maxx

in general, conflicting attitude of the populace. @jack

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Nope

maxx said:

in general, conflicting attitude of the populace. @jack

Conflicting attitudes will naturally subside if the fundamental problems I mentioned are addressed and solved.

maxx

i doubt that. Every person has their own beliefs, morals and way of thinking which will always conflict with others and society as a whole. greed and envy alone creates enough problems to keep a country running in perfect order. people themselves are the biggest problem; and of course, that boils down emotional conflict.  how can free health care or political reformation change the conflicting attitudes and problems people have?  even free schooling and an even income for everyone will not change p[eople way of thinking or personality. no, i still say it is people in general that is the problem.  @JulesKorngold

JulesKorngold

maxx said:

 i still say it is people in general that is the problem.  @JulesKorngold

Help me understand what you are saying.  Are you saying conflicting attitudes cannot be reduced and there is no hope of improvement?

jack

JulesKorngold said:

maxx said:

 i still say it is people in general that is the problem.  @JulesKorngold

Help me understand what you are saying.

Hello Jules:

Lemme just tell you what I think about the situation...

We're tribal..  It's a holdover from the time when we NEEDED to be tribal.  Oh, we LOOK civilized cause we code and wear fancy suits..  But, underneath it all, we're barely out of the trees.  We're hateful, vindictive, and all around not very pleasant. 

And, we KNOW that.  That's why we form governments..  We want government to reflect our better selves.  As John says, we strive for a more perfect union, at least we did.  But, when the government you elect ALLOWS tribal behavior, and/or ENCOURAGES it, everybody has permission to act horridly, and they do.  

As I said above, we're at an inflection point..  I dunno where we're gonna land.

excon

jack

MayCaesar said:

The discussion is ongoing, and here I am, still confused who "we" are and what "country" we are talking about...

Hello Confused:

Well, it COULD be Canada, or it could be the UK, or it could even be Australia.  But, it ain't ANY of those, and NO..  I'm not gonna help you figure it out.

excon

maxx

so many  people in all walks of society with different personalities, view points, attitudes, ideas, morals and so on. We find individual conflict everywhere; against strangers at the store, on the road; att he work place among co workers, among friends and even among families. People are the problem; not political reform or free health care. Resolution? good luck with that.  @JulesKorngold

MayCaesar

@jack

Curious, since at least one of the debaters participating in this thread is from Australia, yet the title of the debate refers to "our biggest problem as a country". Is there some country that is not Australia that Australians consider "ours"? The only country that can possible qualify, as far as I know, would be the UK, but then you also said that we are not talking about the UK...

I am afraid your vague response confused me even more.

Dee

"OUR BIGGEST" remarkable the way a fair proportion of Americans assume there's nothing outside the US , why not just state "AMERICA" in your debate topic?

John_C_87

Dee said:

"OUR BIGGEST" remarkable the way a fair proportion of Americans assume there's nothing outside the US , why not just state "AMERICA" in your debate topic?

They do not assume there is no Country outside America, when using crime, organizing the crime in a means of filed grievance, calling it a method of justice by legislated law, at the same time having a legislation against organized crime, the whole process becomes a subliminal message working against itself and the principles of justice, political state, nation, or territory.

 Country Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
: a political state or nation or its territory

F.Y.I. There is nothing outside a most perfect United State of law when it is held by a President correctly, again a sublimital principle given to the people only this time by Consitutional Right. The legal council inside and outside America has been undermining Constitutional right by the practice or mal-practice of law through out most of America's history it does not come as a surpise many do not understand why or how others develope such conviction to a process of justice held above most Countries principles of law. 

Again, man President, women Presadera, ugh! Ugh! So basic of a truth even a neanderthal can get it. ß------- no crime just truth, whole truth, nothing but truth.

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

The biggest problem facing the USA is a complex one, and there is no single answer that will satisfy everyone. However, some of the most commonly cited problems include:

  As the debate leader you are the person to debate. A solution to any given economic issue does not need to satisfy everyone, a solution needs to address the economic problem. As we are not addressing the biggest but what is to be believed the most important problem as a Country. Of problems for, your list, I would place economy as there is one issue that is understood to be the biggest than all other issues, other issues decrease in size even if slightly. This makes economy largest, as many of the other topics are part of a healthy or robust economy.

Bogan

 i doubt that. Every person has their own beliefs, morals and way of thinking which will always conflict with others and society as a whole. greed and envy alone creates enough problems to keep a country running in perfect order. people themselves are the biggest problem; and of course, that boils down emotional conflict.  how can free health care or political reformation change the conflicting attitudes and problems people have?  even free schooling and an even income for everyone will not change p[eople way of thinking or personality. no, i still say it is people in general that is the problem.

 The problem is, people who are du-mb, or who may be smart but who are thinking du-mb.     Throughout all of human history, once great civilisations fell primarily because their ideological positions which propped up the elites became so divorced from reality, that something had to give.

 Western civilisation is dying and will fall because people like Maxx refuse to recognise that you can not have a free market democracy if the people you import into your country are just too du-mb, and crime and welfare dependent, to vote for politicians who have the sense to run an economy and a government. 

I find it incredible that some so called “smart” young people are trying to resurrect to failed idea of left wing socialism which was catastrophic to the prosperity of every one of the 46 failed states which was du-mb enough to embrace it.       I find it incredible that people like maxx refuse to recognise that some ethnicities have much lower bell curves of IQ than other races, which is why they are so welfare dependent, crime prone, and dysfunctional.   

 This is especially so since we have the examples of every black community is the USA being an economic basket case with overpaid black mayors and administrators running anarchic cities with low educational attainment.     85% of young blacks in the USA today can not read, write, or do simple sums.      

jack

Bogan said:

  85% of young blacks in the USA today can not read, write, or do simple sums.      

Hello Bogan:

What you say is true..  But, is it because they're black, or because white people failed them?  Du*de!  After 400 years of brutal slavery and 150 years of Jim Crow, you expect the downtrodden to throw off the chains of slavery, and put on a Brooks Brothers suit..

excon

PS>  I know..  You'd rather I said more..  But, I just DESTROYED you in THREE sentences.

jack

Hello again:

White wealth is handed down over generations.  But, there ain't no black wealth to hand down.  It's been pillaged.  Without wealth, how're ya gonna compete?  Well, you ain't.  Period, end of story.  And to expect that you should is racist, racist, racist..

excon

all4actt

@anarchist100 How so? Elaborate please.

all4actt

Argument Topic: What is our biggest problem in America

People playing into the VICTIM card

Leaving a generation of people who celebrated the differences in different cultures and for most truely 'JUDGED A PERSON BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER NOT THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN'.  The time inwhich I and my kids grewup in.  It is like one of my kids said "Growing up I did not know anybody anybody who cared what color you were.  The only thing that determined whether we hung out together was how you acted."

People are trying to rewrite the past.  The good and the bad should be remembered and learned from so bbn we can do not ever repeat the missteps of the past.  People seem to have seem to forgotten that every large movement of immigrants had to deal with some sort of prejudice and poverty and were impoverished.  On top of that they had to learn a new language the hard way.  Not a lot of ESL classes in those days.  A lot of our Black American have forgotten that the Irish were the first to be enslaved in the America's.  Long before any Africans were ever brought here and even during the time of the first African slaves being brought here. Yes they were called indentured servants but so were the first Africans brought here.  Irish slaves were still preferable over African slaves. Not because of their skin color but b/c they were cheaper and the sellers would sell them in trade rather than coin.  For those who think it was voluntary have that wrong too.  Then the Chinese were wronged also. Promised citizenship if they worked the railroads for measly wages and then denied that privledge that they worked and died for.  When will people realize we all helped build this country some forced (of black and white) some out of sheer grit. 

We were at a point where we all realized and agreed that we were Americans first. Our past country of origin was How we did things at home but we were Americans first.  

We need to get back to that.

anarchist100

all4actt said:

@anarchist100 How so? Elaborate please.

America tends to export it's culture to other nations, polluting their unique cultures by Americanizing them.

America also seems to enjoy causing trouble in other nations, like when George Bush invaded Iraq so his friends could get rich, it likes to see itself as a democracy, spreading peace and Freedom throughout the world, but it is run by two parties, both controlled by groups like the Clinton's and the Bush's, and corporations who fund them, opposition to the powerful entities in control of the parties can not exist under such a system. The parties are private entities, not required to democratically opporate, and they may lie and say that they do, this was established when supporters of Bernie Sanders tried to sue the Democratic party for what they saw as cheating Sanders out of the primary election. It really is a shame when Americans are harmed by these oligarchs, running the system in their favor while the average American may suffer if it is in the practical interest of the powerful, but what is even more sad is when this group engages in outright war with the world to enrich themselves, look at Libya, look at Iraq, so many people where lost in these wars that didn't have to be, and look at the countries now, I don't like it.

So ultimately that's why I'm mad at America, I wasn't actually expecting anyone to ask about it when I posted my original comment, I was kind of just in a bad mood and wanted to make some people angry by insulting their country. Sorry if I was too rude, I was being a bit of an . ultimately we all have pretty crappy governments, that can't be helped.

MayCaesar

anarchist100 said:

America tends to export it's culture to other nations, polluting their unique cultures by Americanizing them.

"Polluting" is an interesting word to use here. Is it pollution when American ideas of equality penetrate the Saudi-Arabian society, giving them ideas that women, perhaps, should not be treated as sexual slaves to men? Is it a noble pursuit to preserve the unique Saudi-Arabian culture of enslaving women, or, perhaps, in the 21st century that culture needs to go? What do you think?

piloteer

MayCaesar said:

The discussion is ongoing, and here I am, still confused who "we" are and what "country" we are talking about...

I'm pretty sure I saw someone say it's Peru?!?! 

anarchist100

MayCaesar said:

anarchist100 said:

America tends to export it's culture to other nations, polluting their unique cultures by Americanizing them.

"Polluting" is an interesting word to use here. Is it pollution when American ideas of equality penetrate the Saudi-Arabian society, giving them ideas that women, perhaps, should not be treated as sexual slaves to men? Is it a noble pursuit to preserve the unique Saudi-Arabian culture of enslaving women, or, perhaps, in the 21st century that culture needs to go? What do you think?

That's one aspect that I wouldn't mind seeing exported, but America exports much more culture than just western ideas of equality and human rights, it exports language, religious customs, clothing, and much more, and I don't think the good that is does outweighs the harm of degrading the uniqueness of the world's many cultures, which is something very precious to me.

Bogan

@all4actt

All4acct quote   'JUDGED A PERSON BY THE CONTENT OF THEIR CHARACTER NOT THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN'. 

 That is a very noble sentiment and can be valid.    But the problem is, that when judging whether and individual or a group of individuals are dangerous or trustworthy, often the only way to make that judgement is by looking at their group reputation.   

 

All4acct quote    People seem to have seem to forgotten that every large movement of immigrants had to deal with some sort of prejudice and poverty and were impoverished. 

 That is because human beings are tribal and territorial.     Being loyal to what you consider to be your group, and regarding other groups as either hostile or allies, is part of our DNA.       Understanding this basic principle is the way that you understand human conflict around the world.     Peaceful and law abiding communities are composed of people who generally agree on what constitutes right and wrong behaviour.     What constitutes right and wrong behaviour is reflected in a people’s culture.      Multicultural states where different groups of people exist with diametrically opposed cultural values are inherently unstable with inter group violence common. 

 

All4cct quote     Then the Chinese were wronged also. 

 You have a good point but you are not seeing the wider picture.      The USA was once a poor country where you worked or you starved to death.      People in such positions become very hostile to imported groups who may be seen as competing for scarce resources.      Only rich societies have the luxury of being tolerant of imported outsiders, which is why only European people support multiculturalism today.     Other racial groups are either too poor, or not so far removed from serious poverty, that being tolerant towards imported groups is considered a crazy idea.        Many imported ethnic groups in European societies complain about Europeans racism, while if things were reversed, they would be even more hostile towards Europeans if Europeans were immigrating into their own homelands.   

Your point also seems to suggest that white people are racist towards those nice Chinese people who just want to live among the nasty whites.     If that is what you are suggesting, then that is preposterous.    The Chinese people are so racist that they could teach the Nazi Party a thing or two about racism.      The Chinese are so racist that Chinese people in every country are famous for only living within Chinese ghettoes in every major city in the world.     Every major city has a “Chinatown.”    The Chinese only want to live among Chinese.    Importing large numbers of people who identify only with their own race and culture, and who are hostile to your own race and culture, is a crazy idea.     Therefore, the hostility which most US citizens had towards Asians in general was valid and justified.

 

All4cct quote       We were at a point where we all realized and agreed that we were Americans first.

 That is another noble sentiment which simply is not working.     Most people are loyal to their racial or ethnic groups.     Only Europeans have adopted this crazy idea that destroying your own culture is admirable.    As multicultural societies grow and competition for resources grows among competing groups, group hostility will increase.      The concept of citizenship where all are supposedly equal before the law becomes less of a principle than loyalty to ones own racial or ethnic group.       The USA today is characterized by hyphenated groups.    “Italian Americans”, “Irish Americans”, “African Americans”, “Native Americans”, and so on, and so on.      The problems within multicultural European societies is because Europeans became too tolerant for their own good, and they let their competitors and enemies cross their moats and enter their keeps.    This will end with their own destruction.  

MayCaesar

anarchist100 said:

That's one aspect that I wouldn't mind seeing exported, but America exports much more culture than just western ideas of equality and human rights, it exports language, religious customs, clothing, and much more, and I don't think the good that is does outweighs the harm of degrading the uniqueness of the world's many cultures, which is something very precious to me.

Yet people themselves are willingly giving up on that uniqueness as they voluntarily adopt the ideas and goods that originate in the US. When American clothes are cheaper to produce, look cooler and last longer than what local tailors can muster, it makes absolute sense to adopt them. I understand the negative feelings you might have over losing such things, yet would you rather have billions of people outside the US have vastly inferior quality of life just so you can marvel at that uniqueness?

Besides, as some of the uniqueness goes away, new uniqueness emerges, does it not? The North Korean state is quite a unique and relatively new phenomenon. If uniqueness itself is to be treasured, then I do not see it decreasing over time. In some aspects cultures become more and more similar to each other; in other aspects they diverge.

Bogan

@anarchist100

Anarchist100 quote     America tends to export it's culture to other nations, polluting their unique cultures by Americanizing them.

 You seem to be suggesting that Americans are doing something insidious?     Americans do not “export” their culture, culture is often transmitted by the media.     The USA has been the leading source of international media since WW2, so it is hardly surprising that their culture has been transmitted throughout the world.        If people in other countries see something about US culture which they admire, good or bad, then they will adopt it.    You can’t blame the Americans for that.

 

Anarchist100 quote        America also seems to enjoy causing trouble in other nations,

 You seem to be very racist towards “Americans”?      The USA has been the world’s policeman, and I for one am very glad of that.     Just in case you have not noticed, the USA has bases all over the world, in every nation allied to the USA.     In other words, the USA has a lot of friends around the world, which is more than you can say about Russia or China.   

 

Anarchist100 quote.      like when George Bush invaded Iraq so his friends could get rich…

The idea that the USA invaded Iraq just so the friends of the President could enrich themselves is so ridiculous that it is beyond words.       

 

Anarchist100 quote       it likes to see itself as a democracy, spreading peace and Freedom throughout the world, but it is run by two parties, both controlled by groups like the Clinton's and the Bush's, and corporations who fund them, opposition to the powerful entities in control of the parties can not exist under such a system.

 You do have a point there.   But what you are missing, is that while there are Republicans who are part of “the swamp”, most of this self serving, corrupt behaviour is characteristic of the Democrats, who you probably support?      And it was opposed by one Donald Trump, who you probably despise?

Anarchist100      this was established when supporters of Bernie Sanders tried to sue the Democratic party for what they saw as cheating Sanders out of the primary election. 

The Democratic Party of the USA is an amalgam of competing demographics.     It is composed of two mutually hostile groups.   The first is the loony left (or neo Marxists to give them their formal title), which is primarily composed of every non uniformed demographic group beholden to the government for their jobs.    The second demographic includes rich oligarchs, rich multinational corporations, rich celebrities, corrupt Democrat politicians like Joe Biden, and the rich and corrupt top tier of public service.        These competing demographics only get along by scratching each other’s backs.      While neo Marxists such as your good self probably wanted a rich communist like Bernie Sanders to turn the USA into Venezuela or Cuba, this was completely unacceptable to the second Democrat demographic group.       Being a socialite socialist may be fashionable today among "the rich", but no rich person in their right mind really wants crazies like Bernie or AOC in charge.     They had to find an alternate candidate, but the pool of talent in the Dems was looking pretty bleak.     So they settled on corrupt Joe, who may have been senile, but at least he was malleable.     However, trying to conceal his blatant corruption (which he even bragged about) is getting to be a real problem.    Especially, as it is revealing the corruption of the FBI, the Justice department, and the IRS, for all to see.

  Anarchist100 quote.     It really is a shame when Americans are harmed by these oligarchs, running the system in their favor while the average American may suffer if it is in the practical interest of the powerful, 

 Then why you hate Donald Trump is beyond me?

Anarchist100  but what is even more sad is when this group engages in outright war with the world to enrich themselves, look at Libya, look at Iraq, so many people where lost in these wars that didn't have to be, and look at the countries now, I don't like it.

I disagree.       Donald Trump realizes that the US economy is in real trouble and he wants the USA to withdraw it's forces from the many bases around the world, where the USA is subsidizing rich and very well armed nations like South Korea, which is rich enough to defend itself.      Trump also, like you, wants the USA to stop "intervening" in other people's wars by sending troops to fight in these wars.    Generally speaking, I agree with him.     My own country, Australia, is a classic case of a country rich enough to defend itself which is not even trying, because it's primary defense policy since WW2, has been to fight to the last American.  

Openminded

@Bogan
Sounds like Bogan´s received two many concussions boxing with the kangaroos 

MayCaesar

On the topic, I think that every country in the world has the same set of fundamental problems. It all comes down to weaknesses of human individuals. Something that has aggravated me since my early childhood is the willingness with which people give up their agency and follow others' ideas. I was that kid who always tried to look at the problem in a novel way, to write my own music rather than replay classic pieces to death, to build my own philosophy rather than adopt someone else's... Yet almost everyone around me was adopting ideas from left and right, having very little self-expression.

Wherever I go, I bring the same message: "Guys, pause for a moment and think... What do you want? What do you truly want? Forget what your parents told you, what your society tells you, what your friends and loved ones tell you. If you could do whatever you wanted and no one disapproved of it, what would you do?" Sometimes it gets through, other times people genuinely cannot imagine not using other people's ideas and behaviors as a crutch.

I have met so many people who on paper had every opportunity in the world, yet made their life a living hell by following the path laid down by their parents or society... Had a friend with brains rivaling Einstein's, yet perpetually miserable as she was trying hard to be a "productive member of society", working and studying all the time that she was not sleeping in order to escape the nagging feeling of worthlessness that the Chinese society induced in her.

If I could make one change in human psychology, it would be this: I would make humans pursue internal validation versus external. I would make them chase personal happiness, rather than make others happy. Virtually all socio-political problems are derivative of the problem I described, and they would be solved in a flash. Nobody would support crazy dictators and manipulators, as nobody would want to rely on anyone else to solve their problems.

Me, I do not care at all about countries and politicians. If the US falls tomorrow, I will relocate. If the planet burns down tomorrow, I will adapt and explore the new scorched Earth. What kills me is seeing the spark in children's eyes extinguish as they grow up. A kid who used to say, "I want to be an astronaut", is now a bitter incel, or a feminist fanatic, or a devoted follower of Allah... We need more wild dreamers, and fewer "realists", "conservatives", "social justice warriors" and other boner-killers.

AntiRioter

Lack of scientific knowledge 

Factfinder

@MayCaesar

Here, here! I second that! :A kid who used to say, "I want to be an astronaut", is now a bitter incel, or a feminist fanatic, or a devoted follower of Allah... We need more wild dreamers, and fewer "realists", "conservatives", "social justice warriors" and other boner-killers.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@raisin98 ; 

America’s demise due to Progressivism – an ideology based in Spiritual Ignorance…

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” Jeremiah 17:9

Progressivism’s greatest advocate in Time and in Eternity is Satan and America’s greatest catalyst of Progressivism was the “father of modern education,” John Dewey. America is perishing in immoral filth due to the brainwashing of our youth via progenitors of demonic Progressivism, teachers – professors employed at every level of America’s educational establishment and teacher unions whose primary objective is the cloning of our children’s minds for reasons of obedience to a socialistic, Marxist, agenda.

The demonically deceived Progressive’s most destructive ideological belief is that humanity is “basically good” and moral and the only encumbrance to the realization of societal utopia is a failure to provide humanity equity, fairness, an equal distribution of goods and services in compliance with Maslow and his purported “hierarchy of needs.” The spiritually ignorant “do-gooder” liberal, the Progressive, is offended by meritocracy and insulted by the Biblical edict “If one does not work neither should he eat” (2 Thessalonians 3:10).

Progressive idiocy, the liberal “do-gooder” philosophy” is foundational to America’s open borders policy; rampant drug abuse; overdose deaths by the hundreds-of-thousands annually; rampant homelessness; mental illness roaming the streets of our municipalities; unconscionable sexual perversion/gender confusion – shameful mutilation of our children’s bodies via gender transitioning; out of control violent crime; the insanity of prosecutorial malfeasance-misfeasance; a federal government run by the spiritually and mentally and morally deficient.

If the majority of America believed what our Creator has said, we could live in a sustainable society in accordance with the mandates of our Constitution but America has gone the way of the Devil who is amply represented by the Progressive Liberal who is ever increasing in numbers because this demonic ideology has captured the hearts and minds of our youth via a demonically rooted educational system. America and the World are NOT immune to sowing and reaping (Galatians 6:7-8).

Openminded

Argument Topic: As the former Prime Minister of Japan Nusahiro Nakasone once remarked "The USA was once a great country, but now there are too many Africans, Hispanics, and Puerto Ricans dragging the country down."

@Bogan
As the former Prime Minister of Japan Nusahiro Nakasone once remarked "The USA was once a great country, but now there are too many Africans, Hispanics, and Puerto Ricans dragging the country down."  

So we don´t normalize unethical behavior and abuse of this site, it´s a good idea to ensure accuracy when quoting someone. 

Can you please post verification of the above quote Bogan? Just want to make sure that dishonesty or sloppiness is not becoming normalized and acceptable here and elsewhere.

Bogan

@Openminded ;   Can you please post verification of the above quote Bogan? Just want to make sure that dishonesty or sloppiness is not becoming normalized and acceptable here and elsewhere.

I probably can not without an awful lot of research and I can not be bothered doing that.   If you don't believe me, I don't care, as I think that you are too far gone and beyond redemption .   .   Nothing I say you believe anyway.      What Prime Minister Nakasone said was very widely reported at the time because it set off a firestorm of criticism of him by the western liberal press, and he eventually had to apologize.       It is another example of how telling an inconvenient truth can not be tolerated in this increasingly woke western world,     

Putin

Me, I am.

Factfinder

jack said:

Hello again:

White wealth is handed down over generations.  But, there ain't no black wealth to hand down.  It's been pillaged.  Without wealth, how're ya gonna compete?  Well, you ain't.  Period, end of story.  And to expect that you should is racist, racist, racist..

excon

You make a good point here @Jack. Part of the accumulative effects of generations of enslavement. Good thing is we live in a country that recognizes that fact and is trying to make things right. Albeit we live in an imperfect world. I think if we're to truly move past this at some point we all must keep an honest perspective. The wealth of an entire demographic of people has been pillaged by our ancestors as well as the ancestors of the Africans who sold them. Even if ALL countries involved, black and white, were to 'pay it back now' it wouldn't be enough. Increasing education, opportunity, and anti discrimination laws seems to be a good course to be on.  

MayCaesar

jack said:

Hello again:

White wealth is handed down over generations.  But, there ain't no black wealth to hand down.  It's been pillaged.  Without wealth, how're ya gonna compete?  Well, you ain't.  Period, end of story.  And to expect that you should is racist, racist, racist..

excon

Buddy, this country is full of immigrants who came here with nothing, zero "generational wealth", regardless of their skin color - and they are killing it. "How're ya gonna compete"? By using the grey matter in your brain. Here is a cool datapoint:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/publications/frs-print-2023.pdf

Immigrants tend to have very similar incomes to the native born. Immigrant households in 2021 had a median income of $69,622, compared to $69,734 for native-born households.

Fourteen percent of immigrants were poor (that is, with family incomes below the official poverty threshold of $27,500 for a family of four with two children in 2021), compared to 13 percent of the U.S. born.

The idea that whites are richer than blacks "because of generational wealth" does not align with evidence. Empirically, this is a country in which everyone with drive and ambition can reach any height imaginable.

Their skin color did not prevent Oprah Winfrey or Bob Johnson from building billions while starting out with nothing. And there are plenty of people who start out rich, but lose all of their wealth quickly: Clarissa Dickson Wright is a cool example, a lady who inherited billions and just a decade later lost it all and became homeless.

It is not about what you start out with, but what your direction is.

Openminded

@Bogan
 
There´s no record of that Bogan. It was not an inconvenient truth. It was a lie. Be decent.

Factfinder

MayCaesar said:

jack said:

Hello again:

White wealth is handed down over generations.  But, there ain't no black wealth to hand down.  It's been pillaged.  Without wealth, how're ya gonna compete?  Well, you ain't.  Period, end of story.  And to expect that you should is racist, racist, racist..

excon

Buddy, this country is full of immigrants who came here with nothing, zero "generational wealth", regardless of their skin color - and they are killing it. "How're ya gonna compete"? By using the grey matter in your brain. Here is a cool datapoint:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/publications/frs-print-2023.pdf

Immigrants tend to have very similar incomes to the native born. Immigrant households in 2021 had a median income of $69,622, compared to $69,734 for native-born households.

Fourteen percent of immigrants were poor (that is, with family incomes below the official poverty threshold of $27,500 for a family of four with two children in 2021), compared to 13 percent of the U.S. born.

The idea that whites are richer than blacks "because of generational wealth" does not align with evidence. Empirically, this is a country in which everyone with drive and ambition can reach any height imaginable.

Their skin color did not prevent Oprah Winfrey or Bob Johnson from building billions while starting out with nothing. And there are plenty of people who start out rich, but lose all of their wealth quickly: Clarissa Dickson Wright is a cool example, a lady who inherited billions and just a decade later lost it all and became homeless.

It is not about what you start out with, but what your direction is.

But it's deeper than that @MayCaesar. True immigrants came with nothing, faced adversity and pulled through, but that's nothing like being brought over on a slave ship. Generations suffered under the heel of slavery. That does have a sociological effect that gets passed down. Your college room mate or buddy, you couldn't understand why he listened to radio stations that played this kind of content:  "Have you ever listened to those? 60% of their content is "the white man is against us; we must fight back" but have you ever considered that your friend's father, mother, grew up when and where the white man WAS against them? Then go back further, grandparents, and before, each generation under a stronger, more brutal heel of the white slave owner. You just can't discount the physiological effect over the years. https://www.wtkr.com/news/psychiatrist-says-slavery-can-cause-generational-trauma ;

Secondly, When black africans sold their brothers into slavery and white slave ships bought them up, That created a whole slew of people robbed of their futures and whatever wealth they may or may not of acquired. We don't know because it was pillaged from them. 

Quantifying our model, we nd that slavery wealth raises aggregate income by the equivalent of around a decade of economic growth, and increases local income in places with the greatest involvement in slavery by more than 40 percent.  https://www.princeton.edu/~reddings/papers/SBIR_Paper.pdf

 

MayCaesar

@Factfinder

I have never met anyone who has arrived here on a slave ship. A person born anywhere in the US has far more opportunities at their hands than 95% of the immigrants did when they were born in their countries. Do you know what the Soviet Union looked like when I was born? Talk about poverty... We had no food at grocery stores: American charity organizations had to drop off frozen chicken legs off helicopters to feed the people. There is no one in the US born in conditions like this, save for the tiny minority of human trafficking victims.
And yeah, my family had the nation against them alright: more than one of my family members went through the GULAG system or were executed. Have I ever complained about it? Nah, I did not care that half of the Russian people worshipped that system and considered me a filthy traitor: I had my own plans for me. Do the people we are talking about have their own plans for them - or do they listen to the ideologues telling them that there is no hope for them?

I do not think that there is such a thing as "historical heritage" in the objective sense, but there is such a thing as looking back in history and looking for the reasons of all of your failures there. This approach has never gotten anyone anywhere. This is what separates North Korea from South Korea, or Cuba from the Dominican Republic, or Belarus from Poland. Countries with such similar past, yet such different present - because some decided to stay in the past and use it as a crutch, while others decided to move on and never look back.

I never look back. Can the same be said about people staying in these communities and bathing in the victimhood rhetoric?

Your general point appears to be that psychology is what it is and is not directly under control of the individual. I do not disagree with that: a lot of it is about psychology. My point, however, is that the reason is not the past itself, but people's reaction to it, whether voluntary or involuntary. And if we are to accept that individuals have agency in such things (which I believe you argued in a different thread), then they have to be held responsible for not breaking out, for not finding ways to change their mindset. There are countless tools such as CBT that are aimed just at that. But when one's focus is not on solving the problem, but on wallowing in self-pity, then looking for ways to get out of their state does not even cross their mind. It is kind of like depression: when someone is depressed, the last thing they think about is getting up and doing something - even though that is precisely what they need to get out of that state.
It is tragedy of human organism: for various reasons we often tend to stay miserable by not wanting to do what would make us happy, and that misery is precisely what makes us not want that. In words, we want to be happy; in practice, we find misery too comfortable to take action towards becoming happy. Paradox? Maybe.

Factfinder

MayCaesar said:

@Factfinder

I have never met anyone who has arrived here on a slave ship. A person born anywhere in the US has far more opportunities at their hands than 95% of the immigrants did when they were born in their countries. Do you know what the Soviet Union looked like when I was born? Talk about poverty... We had no food at grocery stores: American charity organizations had to drop off frozen chicken legs off helicopters to feed the people. There is no one in the US born in conditions like this, save for the tiny minority of human trafficking victims.
And yeah, my family had the nation against them alright: more than one of my family members went through the GULAG system or were executed. Have I ever complained about it? Nah, I did not care that half of the Russian people worshipped that system and considered me a filthy traitor: I had my own plans for me. Do the people we are talking about have their own plans for them - or do they listen to the ideologues telling them that there is no hope for them?

I do not think that there is such a thing as "historical heritage" in the objective sense, but there is such a thing as looking back in history and looking for the reasons of all of your failures there. This approach has never gotten anyone anywhere. This is what separates North Korea from South Korea, or Cuba from the Dominican Republic, or Belarus from Poland. Countries with such similar past, yet such different present - because some decided to stay in the past and use it as a crutch, while others decided to move on and never look back.

I never look back. Can the same be said about people staying in these communities and bathing in the victimhood rhetoric?

Your general point appears to be that psychology is what it is and is not directly under control of the individual. I do not disagree with that: a lot of it is about psychology. My point, however, is that the reason is not the past itself, but people's reaction to it, whether voluntary or involuntary. And if we are to accept that individuals have agency in such things (which I believe you argued in a different thread), then they have to be held responsible for not breaking out, for not finding ways to change their mindset. There are countless tools such as CBT that are aimed just at that. But when one's focus is not on solving the problem, but on wallowing in self-pity, then looking for ways to get out of their state does not even cross their mind. It is kind of like depression: when someone is depressed, the last thing they think about is getting up and doing something - even though that is precisely what they need to get out of that state.
It is tragedy of human organism: for various reasons we often tend to stay miserable by not wanting to do what would make us happy, and that misery is precisely what makes us not want that. In words, we want to be happy; in practice, we find misery too comfortable to take action towards becoming happy. Paradox? Maybe.

No ones talking about complaining. The fact is generational abuse both physically and psychologically to the extreme of brutal oppression and enslavement has consequences in reality. Of course I'm not advocating for some kind of blank check, just some real, significant consideration. Let me be clear, there will never be enough money or concessions to satisfy the hunger that's been transferred to the youth right now. That's not what I'm talking about. It's about the conditioning that an entire demographic has been forced to go through. This is an American problem. That can't just be dismissed. The generational effect is real.

Yes self agency is available but as you know it like all things, is imperfect. It's vulnerable, susceptible to indoctrination. And it can be prideful, arrogant, unsympathetic to others. I believe strength without wisdom is useless. You need both. No ones experiences negates the importance of another's. 

Factfinder

@MayCaesar

You know, our positions are not that far apart. In the grand scheme of things yes, the positive attitude despite adversity you bring up is what would be best. 

I just agree with @Jack. The situation we have in is not one that simply calls for 'picking oneself up by the bootstraps' solution. No more than it calls for huge payouts. That does nothing for the dead and puts the blame and penalty on the living most of whom had nothing to do with it. The mental effects of centuries of open brutal oppression followed by decades of systematic racism, (when racism meant something) can not be disputed. And yes, the sellers may have been black, but the buyers were white. So centuries of harsh psychological and physical oppression with decades of discrimination tacked on, it's logical to assume long term negative effects can not be dismissed.

So if you recall in my response to jack I pretty much said we need to stay the course. Keep positive reinforcements in place. Give time for the most effected to accept the changes and steps correcting past injustices that has come to pass. To believe it WAS like what relatives talked about, but no longer IS the way things are NOW. As a people, they haven't had a chance to soak that in. Relatively speaking. But when they do, yeah they'll be free to believe in themselves more than oppressive thoughts and enhance their own situations. Like what you're talking about and yes, that is the end goal. And like you point out, we are seeing the fruits of positive reinforcement throughout the demographic already today.