Muslims answer: is Muhammad a false prophet?

Bogan

Mahammad was a psychopath who had a good idea.     Psychopaths can be very intelligent and practical people who can see the outside world without the distorting effects of emotion.     His idea was to create a new religion based upon the Hebrew faith, but including the idea that any Muslim warrior who died fighting for Islam would go straight to heaven.    it worked a treat.    The armies of Islam left Arabia and conqured all of North Africa and the middle east, which were mostly Christian, Jewish, and Zoroastrian.          They conquered much of Spain, but were defeated in France, and got to the walls of Vienna,,twice.     Their ships roamed the Mediterranean and pirated every non Muslim ship they came across, making the crews and passengers slaves.     They even got to London and Ireland and took slaves, as well as almost conquering Malta.

Mahammad was also a paedophile who took a captured Jewish minor (Aisha) as his 9 year old wife.      He forced Aisha to watch the beheading of 800 Jewish men who refused to convert to Islam.      Nice guy, huh?   

This evil man started a warriors religion, which when it came to justifying military conquest and imperialism, it had much to recommend it.   This was why Hitler admired it, and Ghengis Khan adopted it as the new religion of the Mongols.      Islam sees nothing wrong with spreading itself by the sword.    Passages in the Quran  instruct Muslims to fight people :"who Allah knoweth, but you knoweth not.?      This evil religion also instructs it's followers to kill every non Muslim "idolator", "wherever you find them."      And history has displayed that the soldiers of Islam do just that.     The Quran also suggests that non Muslims are not really human.  (made from base matter)      One wonders why leftists are so enamoured of a religion who's values are diametrically opposed to leftist doctrine?     I suppose it is because the authoritarianism of Islam is what makes it so appealing to leftists?

21CenturyIconoclast

@Uthman

Uthman,

The camel-humper disgusting Muhammed was a self made prophet that the angel Gabriel allegedly talked with him in a cave near Medina, and told him that Allah God wants him to start a new religion! You can stop recognizing Muhammed when the sweaty goat herder MARRIED AN INNOCENT 6 YEAR OLD GIRL NAMED "AISHA," and consummated the marriage when she was NINE YEARS OLD so he could screw her little girl vagina, mouth and !  This is the prophet that is supposed to be looked upon as in high esteem, NOT!

Narrated by Aisha: “that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years till his death. (Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:)

ISLAM, the most sickening religion known to mankind, bar none!

.

Bogan

Islam is an evil "religion" which should be openly discriminated against in my country (Australia), for the purpose of (hopefully) eradicating it.

 Islam is not just a religion, it is a complete social system (legal, dietary, political, and religious) system rolled up into one.    The most telling indictment of this evil religion, is that those nations which are the most ardent in following it in its most pure form, are exactly the same strife prone cesspits holding out the begging bowl while causing so much trouble in this world.     Muslim countries are places where doctors and aid workers get murdered, or are flung into dungeons by Kalashnikov toting crazies, for the crime of trying to prevent the locals from starving to death.

 Muslim countries should be wealthy countries.     Many of them are literally floating on oceans of oil.     Two of them (Egypt and Iraq) posses two of the worlds most fertile river systems.      Many of the world’s most revered archeological treasures exist within the boundaries of the Muslim world, but persistent grenade and bomb attacks upon tourists by Islam’s most ardent supporters has seen tourism dwindle.     Then there was the Taliban who managed to blow up the fabulous 2000 year old Babiyan Buddha's which could have attracted planeloads of pilgrims.      Real smart, huh?      I guess that comes from breeding with your cousins for generations.

 The evil nature of Islam is revealed in its teachings, from its Koran and from the actions of its Prophet.     The religion was invented by a genocidal  pedophile warlord called Mohammad,  who kept an11 year old wife (Aisha), and who spread his religion by the simple expedient of killing anyone who did not become a Muslim.     This extreme hostility to non Muslims is a singular characteristic of Islam, and it is validated by many verses in the Koran.     These verses demand that its adherents must understand that non Muslims are not quite human, must never be trusted, can be lied too, and that a good Muslim must maintain total social separation from Kuffar (non Muslim) inferiors.      Think of the Ku Klux Klan or Nazi Germany inventing their own religions, and you got Islam.

 It is a religion which validates the idea that a man should beat his wife, and even helpfully recommends the length and width of the rod which a good Muslim man should use to do the job.     It is a religion which validates the idea that Muslims who turn away from Islam should be murdered, and there are some Muslim countries where that is in fact the written law, and many others where the practice is widespread, although not openly admitted to in that countries law.    Any religion which validates the murder of apostates is pure evil.

 Here in Australia, it can be deduced that whatever virtues the Islamic faith bestows upon its adherents, respect for law, honesty, non violence, and a work ethic do not appear to be the most prominent.     Muslims are very disproportionately involved in crimes of violence and drug trafficking, and are also seriously overrepresented in welfare dependency.  

 That Muslims are a danger to Australian society can be seen from the behaviour and the statement of the former head Muslim in Australia, Sheik (cat meat) Hilali.    When not praising suicide bombers, or heaping scorn on Australians, he indirectly told his flock that if an Australian women gets raped by a Believer, she has no one to blame but herself, because she did not adhere to the standards of behaviour of the Islamic world.     One of the 70 girls gang raped at the time of the Olympics (Megan) replied to the Sheik’s suggestion by saying “I used to tell people that what happened to me had nothing to do with Islam, now Sheik Hilaly has proven me wrong.”

 Throughout the world, most religions today can more or less get along with one another, but no religion has ever been able to get along with Islam.    The rule of thumb appears to be that when Muslims reach about 5% of a population, then you have got real problems.    Far from having a happy multicultural society, you end up with a Balkanized society with a Muslim monoculture in one particular area demanding Sharia law, from which all the people of other religions and cultures have already fled in terror.

Bogan

This is a very interesting question. With respect to cats, the Q’ran in Surah 12:45.1(c) states that, “the cat always lands on its paws.” However, Surah 3.14e-9 says that “pita bread always lands hummus-side down.”

Of course, the crafty infidel will see this as a contradiction: what if a believer were to glue a hummus-laden pita to the back of a cat, and hurl it from the local prayer tower? No matter how it hits the ground, the crafty infidel will say it invalidates Q'ranic infalibility! This is where the meat comes in. The key is to first put the uncovered meat between the cat and the pita, in a sort of cat-meat-pita sandwich. As it plummets from the tower, the cat will eat through the glue to get at the delicious uncovered meat, thereby freeing the pita to land hummus side down, and the meat-refreshed cat to land happily on its paws. In this way you may demonstrate to the crafty kuffar the eternal perfection of the sacred Word of Allah, as revealed through His Prophet (peace be unto him).  Also, if the crafty kuffar is an uncovered woman, don't forget to rape her.

Shajid

Argument Topic: Your Argument lacking

All Praises be to Allah the Almighty,

There is no contradiction or connection between between the verse and the Hadeeth. In fact, the scholars have cited this verse as evidence of the truthfulness of the prophethood of Muhammad saw. This verse means that if the Prophet Muhammad were to invent a lie against Allah, Allah would hasten his punishment, and He would avenge him in a severe and harsh manner.

The verse contains two features: hastening and magnifying. Tahir ibn 'Ashoor said in his interpretation of the Quran, At-Tahreer wat Tanweer: “The meaning of {We would have seized him by the right hand}, is ‘We would have seized him by force, that is, without hesitation…”He said in another instance: “The meaning is: “We would have taken him sooner and We would have severed his aorta. This is to magnify the manner of seizing; therefore, Allah did not say for instance ‘We would have made him perish.”

Neither of those things happened to the Prophet (SAW); rather, he survived several years after eating the poison, and he was supported by miracles, the greatest of which were the revelation of the Quran and victory over his enemies. This is indeed the greatest evidence of the truthfulness of his prophethood.

His death saw after years of being affected by the poison was an additional honor from Allah to him, as Allah gave him two rewards: Allah did not enable anyone to kill him directly.

All of this is weak and doesn't disprove Islam in any way and this shows your ignorance about the Quran or the Sunnah.   

Dee

@Shajid

The greatest of which were the revelation of the Quran 

The Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel appearing to him in a cave on Mount Hira. The angel spoke to Muhammad and Muhammad began reciting the words from God. 

 Muhammad stating the quran was revealed to him by an angel in a cave over a 23 year time period  seems to strongly  indicate that Muhammad was mentally insane , hearing voices giving him revelations is evidence enough.

Shajid

@Dee

I would like to correct your idea of such. 

The Prophet (SAW) would receive revelations from The Angel Jibril or Gabriel. He is not mad or Insane. His also illiterate thus he couldn't get the verses of Quran (Which are the most renowned pieces of Arabic Text) from any random sources. He also Wasn't going on off of his whims. He also would receive revelations in any place, while walking, laying down, outside, riding a horse, Etc. Not only a cave that which you mentioned. 

The following paragraphs are from the book The Quran: An Eternal Challenge by a very learned scholar, Muhammad Abdullah Draz.

"We have all heard of the remarkable physical changes that were apparent on the Prophet’s face whenever he received a Quranic revelation from on high. Those who were present would see his face turn red and he would feel so hot that sweat drops would appear on his forehead. He would also become heavy to the extent that his thigh would press hard against the thigh of the person next to him. If he was riding, his mount would lay down. At the same time, noises like the buzzing of bees would be heard near his face (these physical experiences are confirmed in an authentic hadith related by Bukhari, Muslim and others). These manifestations would eventually subside and the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would relax and recite the Quranic verses he had received."

Also many hadiths in the sunnah show the the companions witnessing The Prophet (SAW) receive revelations from the Angel Gabriel:

In Sahih Al-Muslim 8, Umar ibn al-Khattab Narrates that: 

"One day we were sitting in the company of Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) when there appeared before us a man dressed in pure white clothes, his hair extraordinarily black. There were no signs of travel on him. None amongst us recognized him. At last he sat with the Apostle (peace be upon him) He knelt before him placed his palms on his thighs and said: Muhammad, inform me about al-Islam. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Al-Islam implies that you testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and you establish prayer, pay Zakat, observe the fast of Ramadan, and perform pilgrimage to the (House) if you are solvent enough (to bear the expense of) the journey. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. He (Umar ibn al-Khattab) said: It amazed us that he would put the question and then he would himself verify the truth. He (the inquirer) said: Inform me about Iman (faith). He (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Apostles, in the Day of Judgment, and you affirm your faith in the Divine Decree about good and evil. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. He (the inquirer) again said: Inform me about al-Ihsan (performance of good deeds). He (the Holy Prophet) said: That you worship Allah as if you are seeing Him, for though you don't see Him, He, verily, sees you. He (the enquirer) again said: Inform me about the hour (of the Doom). He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: One who is asked knows no more than the one who is inquiring (about it). He (the inquirer) said: Tell me some of its indications. He (the Holy Prophet) said: That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and master, that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings. He (the narrator, Umar ibn al-Khattab) said: Then he (the inquirer) went on his way but I stayed with him (the Holy Prophet) for a long while. He then, said to me: Umar, do you know who this inquirer was? I replied: Allah and His Apostle knows best. He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: He was Gabriel (the angel). He came to you in order to instruct you in matters of religion."

The prophet (SAW) also had no sign of Such mental illness, that would make him recite arabic at the highest level while being illiterate. Please try to do some research or anything before stating your incorrect opinion.

Shajid

@Bogan

I'm not even going to waste my time with this one. lying about the ayahs in the Quran is not convincing anyone in with any knowledge or anyone who just fact-checks them. 

You stated that "With respect to cats, the Q’ran in Surah 12:45.1(c) states that, “the cat always lands on its paws.”

While the Quran in Surat Al-Yusuf, Ayah 45 (12:45) actually states

(12:45) "Then of the two prisoners, the one who had been set free, now remembered, after the lapse of a long period, what Joseph had said. He said: "I will tell you the interpretation of this dream; just send me (to Joseph in prison)."

This has absolutely nothing to do with Cats. Also there is nothing known as !2:45 .1(c) 
We only have 2 metrics which are the first number which is the chapter number or the 12 in 12:45
The last one being Ayah or Verse. The things you just said are all just fabrications.

The other Fake Quranic Ayah which you said doesn't even exist as you stated:

"Surah 3.14e-9 says that “pita bread always lands hummus-side down.” 

There is no 14e-9 and just incase it's a typo and it's about Surah An-Nisa ayat 14-9, then you would be again mistaken since the surah speaks on Women and those ayahs have nothing about pita bread, even while being long ayat.

I'm not even going to tear apart the rest of your Argument since you seem to be ignorant. 

Jayed

Argument Topic: Argument is lacking, biased accusations, blind stereotypes, and random jibber jabber.

Assalamualaikum,

If I may:

As mentioned in the title, your argument is lacking and is riddled with stereotypes. Other than one or two accusations, they're filled with personal biases and random "yapping" to fill a certain word count to make your views "heavier" in scale.

It is a complete social system (legal, dietary, political, and religious) system rolled up into one.

It's always refreshing seeing someone non-Muslim complimenting our religion as a complete way of life!

The most telling indictment of this evil religion, is that those nations which are the most ardent in following it in its most pure form, are exactly the same strife prone cesspits holding out the begging bowl while causing so much trouble in this world. Muslim countries are places where doctors and aid workers get murdered...

Yes, exactly! The Muslim countries are suffering from invasion, "liberation," occupation, and expropriation from self-glorified, egotistical secular states who claim sovereignty. Now allow me to follow up and add to that second sentence. Doctors and aid workers are killed by occupying countries or secular countries with no moral compass or ethos other than for themselves who only want gain without thinking about consequences or lives sacrificed. One prominent case you'll find is Israel's bombing of a hospital and justifying it by claiming "Hamas" was under there. Their evidence? Arabic calendar, an elevator shaft, rusted AK47s (which they provided), and no evidence of intel.

Then there was the Taliban who managed to blow up the fabulous 2000 year old Babiyan Buddha's which could have attracted planeloads of pilgrims. Real smart, huh? I guess that comes from breeding with your cousins for generations.

No, no it doesn't. Prove breeding between cousins is scientifically and morally wrong - although you guys have no moral high ground to follow. And remember kids, don't let the actions of one individual or only a few speak volumes for everyone else, or else you'll end up as Bogan.

The religion was invented by a genocidal...

You're the most intelligent being to ever exist, so of course you wouldn't speak without an appropriate sourcing and a reliable history. Please give me a source for this.

...Pedophile warlord called Mohammad, who kept an 11 year old wife (Aisha), and who spread his religion by the simple expedient of killing anyone who did not become a Muslim.

Most wars he fought were started by his enemies. Mind you, they were the ones who kicked him out. Prophet Muhammad (S) didn't kill a single person when he captured Mecca, save 4 men and 2 women (For reference see: Sunan An-Nasa'i 4067.) I'm not sure if you're trying to argue about Aisha's age on if prophet Muhammed (S) was a pedophile or not. FYI, she was 9 when they consummated the marriage (For reference see: Sahih al-Bukhari 5134.)

These verses demand that its adherents must understand that non Muslims are not quite human, must never be trusted, can be lied too, and that a good Muslim must maintain total social separation from Kuffar (non Muslim) inferiors. Think of the Ku Klux Klan or Nazi Germany inventing their own religions, and you got Islam.

One very important thing is to cite your sources, while we all know what you're talking about, you still should. You're completely wrong. Is extreme exaggeration the only way you win these debates? Everyone can be lied to. Total social separation from Kuffar means no dawah opportunity, which is a must. On the issue of the KKK and Nazi Germany, you should remember that while they mandated the killing of every person of their opposition, Islam doesn't. It tells you to show every person respect and practice decency. We should also try to be an excellent person of character within a society. 

"And you are truly an excellent standard of character." (Surah al-Qalam 68:4)

“Indeed among the believers with the most complete faith is the one who is the best in conduct, and the most kind to his family.” (For reference see: Jami' at-Tirmidhi 2612)

 It is a religion which validates the idea that a man should beat his wife, and even helpfully recommends the length and width of the rod which a good Muslim man should use to do the job.

it so helpfully recommends the length and width of the rod comparable to that of half the size of the average toothbrush.

Ar-Raazi  commented on the verse in reference, saying, "The verse indicates that the first measure is to admonish and then to forsake in bed (i.e. refrain from intimacy with her), and then the last resort is to beat her. This is almost an explicit statement that as long as the purpose is achieved by the lighter measure, then it is sufficient and it is not permissible for him to take the tougher measure."

ʻAtaa'  said, "I asked Ibn ʻAbbaas what is meant by beating that is not severe?' He replied, 'Beating with the Siwaak (tooth stick) or the like.'"

You can surely try harder next time, right? ????

Muslims are very disproportionately involved in crimes of violence and drug trafficking, and are also seriously overrepresented in welfare dependency.

No, they're not. Refuting arguments is starting to get exceedingly annoying. As a matter of fact, why don't I take a quote right from ABC News? I'm surprised they didn't lie about this, but you did. "A 2015 report in The Australian stated that Muslims made up but just 3 percent of the general population." (For reference see: ABC News)

If an Australian women gets raped by a Believer, she has no one to blame but herself, because she did not adhere to the standards of behaviour of the Islamic world.

The reason the rape percentages in Muslim countries are so low is that the women usually cover up and don't follow a culture of showing everything they have on their bodies to their husbands and everyone else in the nearby vicinity. Also, men are encouraged to show courtesy, shame, and show respect towards women. Very different from secular societies, where perverted behavior is encouraged.

Throughout the world, most religions today can more or less get along with one another, but no religion has ever been able to get along with Islam.

Don't lie to yourself. Christians and Jews lived peacefully under Muslim rule. Would you look at that: Salahuddin Ayubbi also recaptured Jerusalem without killing a single innocent. The Golden Ages was when Islam conquered and when Muslims were the innovators. They made so many innovations, especially in maths, science, medicine, and all things STEM-related. 

"They then had an enormous impact on figures like Moses Maimonides, the greatest rabbi of the Middle Ages, whose not only his philosophy but almost every aspect of his work was influenced by and stimulated by Islam." (For reference see: The Woolf Institute.)

Far from having a happy multicultural society, you end up with a Balkanized society with a Muslim monoculture in one particular area demanding Sharia law, from which all the people of other religions and cultures have already fled in terror.

I can't be bothered anymore... This rarely happens, and when it does, it's a small group of those Muslims who violently do it. The rest do it peacefully. Of course, I doubt you bothered to care about the second part since that would topple over your incredibly stereotyped views.

Dreamer

Argument Topic: Atheists can't even get claims about Christanity correct, let alone other religions.

If you look at atheists books including Christopher Hitchen's book it is riddled with errors.

"Daniel C. Peterson attacked the accuracy of Hitchens's claims in a lengthy essay, describing it as "crammed to the bursting point with errors"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Great

"What once seemed like a bracing intellectual movement has degenerated into a pack of abusive, small-minded bigots

By Émile P. Torres"

https://www.salon.com/2021/06/05/how-the-new-atheists-merged-with-the-far-right-a-story-of-intellectual-grift-and-abject-surrender/

"The conspiracist and racist content online spreads and perpetuates hatred of Muslims and their faith."

https://counterhate.com/topic/anti-muslim-hate/

"“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

https://biblehub.com/matthew/7-3.htm

There is no scientific reason to believe in God. Turning to hate and lies is hypocritical and goes against everything the new atheist movement says it stands for.

Dee

@Shajid

I would like to correct your idea of such. 

I'm sure you would but you cannot as you have zero proof for your fantastical claims

The Prophet (SAW) would receive revelations from The Angel Jibril or Gabriel

OK,  prove it? What is an Angel? What does an Angel look like? Are all claims made by other religions regading Angels also true?

. He is not mad or Insane.

Muhammad was either a , insane or telling the truth. You say he was telling the truth so tell me Joeseph Smith the founder of the Mormon religion claimed an Angel called Moroni gave him God's word written on golden plates so why are you not also a Mormon?

His also illiterate thus he couldn't get the verses of Quran (Which are the most renowned pieces of Arabic Text) from any random sources. He also Wasn't going on off of his whims. He also would receive revelations in any place, while walking, laying down, outside, riding a horse, Etc. Not only a cave that which you mentioned. 

You also believe Muhammad ascended to heaven on a flying horse called Buraq, come buddy seriously?

The following paragraphs are from the book The Quran: An Eternal Challenge by a very learned scholar, Muhammad Abdullah Draz.

"We have all heard of the remarkable physical changes that were apparent on the Prophet’s face whenever he received a Quranic revelation from on high. Those who were present would see his face turn red and he would feel so hot that sweat drops would appear on his forehead. He would also become heavy to the extent that his thigh would press hard against the thigh of the person next to him. If he was riding, his mount would lay down. At the same time, noises like the buzzing of bees would be heard near his face (these physical experiences are confirmed in an authentic hadith related by Bukhari, Muslim and others). These manifestations would eventually subside and the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would relax and recite the Quranic verses he had received."

Sounds like Muhammad was suffering from an illness most likely mental.

Also many hadiths in the sunnah show the the companions witnessing The Prophet (SAW) receive revelations from the Angel Gabriel:

In Sahih Al-Muslim 8, Umar ibn al-Khattab Narrates that: 

"One day we were sitting in the company of Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) when there appeared before us a man dressed in pure white clothes, his hair extraordinarily black. There were no signs of travel on him. None amongst us recognized him. At last he sat with the Apostle (peace be upon him) He knelt before him placed his palms on his thighs and said: Muhammad, inform me about al-Islam. The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Al-Islam implies that you testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and you establish prayer, pay Zakat, observe the fast of Ramadan, and perform pilgrimage to the (House) if you are solvent enough (to bear the expense of) the journey. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. He (Umar ibn al-Khattab) said: It amazed us that he would put the question and then he would himself verify the truth. He (the inquirer) said: Inform me about Iman (faith). He (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Apostles, in the Day of Judgment, and you affirm your faith in the Divine Decree about good and evil. He (the inquirer) said: You have told the truth. He (the inquirer) again said: Inform me about al-Ihsan (performance of good deeds). He (the Holy Prophet) said: That you worship Allah as if you are seeing Him, for though you don't see Him, He, verily, sees you. He (the enquirer) again said: Inform me about the hour (of the Doom). He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: One who is asked knows no more than the one who is inquiring (about it). He (the inquirer) said: Tell me some of its indications. He (the Holy Prophet) said: That the slave-girl will give birth to her mistress and master, that you will find barefooted, destitute goat-herds vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings. He (the narrator, Umar ibn al-Khattab) said: Then he (the inquirer) went on his way but I stayed with him (the Holy Prophet) for a long while. He then, said to me: Umar, do you know who this inquirer was? I replied: Allah and His Apostle knows best. He (the Holy Prophet) remarked: He was Gabriel (the angel). He came to you in order to instruct you in matters of religion."

Prove it?

The prophet (SAW) also had no sign of Such mental illness, that would make him recite arabic at the highest level while being illiterate. Please try to do some research or anything before stating your incorrect opinion.

To prove me wrong the burden of proof is on you , your claim remains that for 23 years the known laws of the Universe were put on hold to allow an unproven spiritual entity to appear and dictate words to Muhammad which according to you emanated from another unproven entity called Allah.

A bit of basic research into science and the difference between it and pseudoscientific claims would not work on closed minded individuals like you who's world view is instilled in them through the process of unquestioning indoctrination.

Dee

Turning to hate and lies is hypocritical and goes against everything the new atheist movement says it stands for.@Dreamer


Don't do it then 

Jayed

@Dee

So a mentally ill person who had some case of severe schizophrenia made up a whole religion and a book that far surpassed literature at the time (he's illiterate)? And he lied about all that? Even though he was considered truthful and trustworthy by the same people who turned him away for proposing a monotheistic religion.

If a person's worst enemies at that time considered that person honest and truthful, I would believe that person to be truthful.

The same man has you sitting in a chair 1400 years after his death arguing against his followers. Don't know about you, but your description of prophet Muhammad (S) actively degrades you more than him.

Dee

@Jayed

So a mentally ill person who had some case of severe schizophrenia made up a whole religion and a book that far surpassed literature at the time (he's illiterate)? And he lied about all that? Even though he was considered truthful and trustworthy by the same people who turned him away for proposing a monotheistic religion.

You've totally avoided answering what I asked , which remains unchallenged........

Muhammad was either  , insane or telling the truth. You say he was telling the truth so tell me Joeseph Smith the founder of the Mormon religion claimed an Angel called Moroni gave him God's word written on golden plates so why are you not also a Mormon?

If a person's worst enemies at that time considered that person honest and truthful, I would believe that person to be truthful.

Actually his worst enemies said he was a dirty  dog  and that Muhammad was a pervert ,deplorable , and a  false prophet, some even called him the Antichrist so stop pretending the dirty dog was universally loved. 

The same man has you sitting in a chair 1400 years after his death arguing against his followers

Another claim you have zero proof for, come on buddy you and fellow Muslims think Mo ascended to heaven on a flying horse ....ROFLMAO

. Don't know about you, but your description of prophet Muhammad (S) actively degrades you more than him.

Telling the truth does not degrade me by any means , your fantasies demonstrate clearly the damage indoctrination does to the ignorant and superstitious.

Also you defending a madman and child abuser proves how degraded you are and how happy you are to remain so.

Bogan

@Jayed

Jayed quote   It's always refreshing seeing someone non-Muslim complimenting our religion as a complete way of life!

 That was no compliment, mate.      The western world rocketed ahead technologically, socially, economically, and scientifically from all others, because we started backing away from the idea that religion was everything, and we made our governments secular.     Islam has held your Muslim countries back for centuries, and proof of that just happens to be self evident reality.   The more Muslim a country is, the more of a backward sheethole it is. 

 

Jayed quote       Yes, exactly! The Muslim countries are suffering from invasion, "liberation," occupation, and expropriation from self-glorified, egotistical secular states who claim sovereignty.

 Who is claiming “sovereignty” over Muslim states?        Most Muslim countries were so backward that they became colonies of the western powers, and the west could not get out of your woebeggoten lands fast enough.    We figured out that Muslims were just too backward, too insanely violent, and not worth civilising. 

 

Jayed quote      Now allow me to follow up and add to that second sentence. Doctors and aid workers are killed by occupying countries or secular countries with no moral compass or ethos other than for themselves who only want gain without thinking about consequences or lives sacrificed. One prominent case you'll find is Israel's bombing of a hospital and justifying it by claiming "Hamas" was under there. Their evidence? Arabic calendar, an elevator shaft, rusted AK47s (which they provided), and no evidence of intel.

 So, Muslims are claiming one thing and Jews are claiming the opposite?     Who should I believe?     Which side is more credible?   I know that Muslims in my own country are a pain in the butt, with very high levels of welfare dependency and very high rates of serious criminal behaviour.    As a matter of fact, my home state’s biggest police task force is the “Middle East Crime Task Force.”       Muslims in Australia are associated with the race hate gang rapes of 70 Australian girls, they are very much disproportionally involved in genital mutilation of females, honour killings, incest, gun and arson attacks on churches, Synagogues, and police stations.    And they are involved in terrorism with over 220 Australians now either shot or blown up by Muslims.   

 Then there are the Jews, who have very low rates of welfare dependency, are very much involved in Australian business, and who are practically crime free.    It is safe to walk at night in the Jewish ghetto of Bondi Junction, and it is not safe to walk at night in Muslim areas.     What this boils down too, is that I would not trust a Muslim any further than I could throw a camel. 

 

 Jayed quote   No, no it doesn't. Prove breeding between cousins is scientifically and morally wrong - although you guys have no moral high ground to follow. And remember kids, don't let the actions of one individual or only a few speak volumes for everyone else, or else you'll end up as Bogan.

Yeah?      Here is a news report from one of Australia’s leading newspapers.     The Sun Herald, 28th May, 2006, “The Family Ties that Bind”.

 “A study at Auburn Hospital found almost 20 per cent of pregnant women admitted to the maternity ward in one year were married to their first or second cousins.     The research found babies were three times more likely to be born with birth defects and six times more likely to die in the womb or in infancy than babies in the general population.” As well as marrying their cousins, “Specialist medical teams are in Canturbury, Bankstown, and Fairfield hospitals to treat the consequences of female genital mutilation.”

    The Sydney suburb of Auburn is right in the middle of Australia’s “Gaza Strip”, which are the Muslim areas of Sydney which are the most trouble prone, as well as crime prone, and welfare dependent.     Teachers refuse to teach in that area’s schools because of the behaviour of violent Muslim schoolboys.  You Muslims have real credibility and PR problem, and my advice to you is stop screaming “Allah akhbar!’ and behave yourselves. 

 

Jayed quote       You're the most intelligent being to ever exist, so of course you wouldn't speak without an appropriate sourcing and a reliable history. Please give me a source for this.

I can do that, but I don’t need to.    Mohammad was a genocidal psychopath paedophile.    If he was not, please tell me how many Jews still live in Saudi Arabia?      And how old was Aisha when Mohammad married her?

 

Jayed quote  Most wars he fought were started by his enemies.

 Rubbish.    Islam came out of Arabia like the plague and it invaded Christian, Jewish,  Buddhist, Hindu, and Zoroastrian lands.      Your own koran has your false god commanding Muslims to even fight people “who Allah knoweth, but you knoweth not.”       It is an aggressive warrior religion, which is why Hitler admired it, and the world’s most historically murderous psychopath, Khengis Khan, adopted Islam as the Mongol state religion.    

 

Jayed quote     I'm not sure if you're trying to argue about Aisha's age on if prophet Muhammed (S) was a pedophile or not. FYI, she was 9 when they consummated the marriage

 If Mohammad had sex with a 9 year old girl, then that makes him a first order paedophile.      It is just amazing how religious people can think around self evident reality.     No wonder your religion is failing your people.    You need to shut down your brain to accept it.

 

Jayed quote     One very important thing is to cite your sources, while we all know what you're talking about, you still should.

 My Koran is right beside me.    I have all the offensive verses marked with a yellow highlighter.

 

Jayed quote      You're completely wrong. Is extreme exaggeration the only way you win these debates? Everyone can be lied to. Total social separation from Kuffar means no dawah opportunity, which is a must.

 So, you come to a western country and insist on total social separation from your fellow citizens, then your people act offensively towards your fellow citizens, insisting that our secular laws must not apply to you.      And then you wonder why western people despise you?       In addition, the term "Kuffar" equates to the South African "Kaffir".    It is a racist term, because Islam is a religiously racist religion.  

 

Jayed quote        On the issue of the KKK and Nazi Germany, you should remember that while they mandated the killing of every person of their opposition, Islam doesn't. It tells you to show every person respect and practice decency. We should also try to be an excellent person of character within a society. 

 My Koran has passages in it which justify the murder and mutilation of non Muslims, especially “idolators”.    These non Muslims victims can only avoid this fate if they convert to Islam.     The only exceptions are “people of the book” (Jews and Christians)” who may be left alone provided that they pay a special tax for the honour of living within their own lands which Islam has conquered.

 

Jayed quote        “Indeed among the believers with the most complete faith is the one who is the best in conduct, and the most kind to his family.” (For reference see: Jami' at-Tirmidhi 2612)

 The Muslim suburb of Auburn in Sydney has the highest rate of domestic violence in the state of NSW.    Islam is a religion which gives no freedom to women, and as such you are wasting one half of your people’s brainpower.

 

Jayed quote  it so helpfully recommends the length and width of the rod comparable to that of half the size of the average toothbrush.

Ar-Raazi  commented on the verse in reference, saying, "The verse indicates that the first measure is to admonish and then to forsake in bed (i.e. refrain from intimacy with her), and then the last resort is to beat her. This is almost an explicit statement that as long as the purpose is achieved by the lighter measure, then it is sufficient and it is not permissible for him to take the tougher measure."

ʻAtaa'  said, "I asked Ibn ʻAbbaas what is meant by beating that is not severe?' He replied, 'Beating with the Siwaak (tooth stick) or the like.'"

You can surely try harder next time, right? ????

 I don’t need to.    Your violent and misogynistic religion validates wife beating.      No wonder Auburn in Sydney has the state’s highest rates of domestic violence.    No wonder ex Muslim women are Islam’s greatest critics.

 Jayed wrote      No, they're not. Refuting arguments is starting to get exceedingly annoying. As a matter of fact, why don't I take a quote right from ABC News? I'm surprised they didn't lie about this, but you did. "A 2015 report in The Australian stated that Muslims made up but just 3 percent of the general population." (For reference see: ABC News)

 Yes, they are.    The Muslim areas of Sydney are notoriously the most dangerous and crime ridden, with murders in particular right out of control.    55% of the handgun murders in the entire state of NSW occur within the confines of two notorious Muslim ghettoes.     NSW’s biggest crime task force is the Middle Eastern Crime Taskforce, and they are not worried about Jews.   The ABC is a woke, liberal media organisation entirely funded by the Australian taxpayer, and it I so notorious for it’s anti western propaganda that it would cease to exist if not for the billion dollars a year it gets from the white Australian people it despises.

 

Jayed quote    The reason the rape percentages in Muslim countries are so low is that the women usually cover up and don't follow a culture of showing everything they have on their bodies to their husbands and everyone else in the nearby vicinity. Also, men are encouraged to show courtesy, shame, and show respect towards women. Very different from secular societies, where perverted behavior is encouraged.

 There are a lot of reasons why rape is low in Muslim countries.   The most obvious of which, is that it is a crime in Islam for a woman to admit that she has been raped.     In addition, the Muslim standards for the conviction of rapists is so high that a woman may as well just than risk being convicted of “allowing oneself to be raped” than to go to the authorities and complain.     Within the western world, Muslim men are very disproportionately involved in the crime of rape.     Importing Muslims into western societies has meant importing a disproportionate number of men who think it is okay to rape women.     No wonder Muslim women in the west who get the chance to flee Islam do so and become Islam’s greatest critics.

 

Jayed quote  Don't lie to yourself. Christians and Jews lived peacefully under Muslim rule.

They did.    At one point in history, it could be said that Islam was more socially advanced than the west.    But that was a long time ago.     Your people are still living with medieval values that have no place in the modern world.   If Muslims want a decent standard of living, they flee to the west.     The Christian religion evolved from a pacifist religion to a very violent one, and then it evolved back again to a much more peaceful religion.    Which is why Christian countries are usually peaceful countries, and Muslim countries are notoriously violent and dysfunctional.      Your religion is the reason why your societies are extremely violent and can never advance.

 

Jayed quote      Would you look at that: Salahuddin Ayubbi also recaptured Jerusalem without killing a single innocent.

 In the west, Salahuddin Ayubbi is considered a great military commander, an honourable enemy, and a very decent man, for a Muslim..        

 

Jayed quote         The Golden Ages was when Islam conquered and when Muslims were the innovators. They made so many innovations, especially in maths, science, medicine, and all things STEM-related. 

 I don’t know if that was because of the Arabs, or the captured Greek Christians?     Many Muslim lands had large populations of Orthodox Greeks, who have always been scientifically advanced people.    There are five stages in human development and it is not unusual for any relatively advanced society to have wealthy and smart people who investigate real world reasons as to why things are as they are.     Islam did once flower as a centre for scientific research but your evil mullahs and Imams shut that down.       Muslims are now at the bottom of scientific advancement.     In 2006, the resource poor state of Israel filed for 55,000 international patents from a nation of only 9 million.     Iran, which is floating on a sea of oil, and which has 90 million people, only filed for 50.   This is one reason why Muslims hate the Jews.     The Jews are beating the pants off the Muslim world, and they are an unwelcome reminder of how backward your religion is.   

 

Jayed quote      I can't be bothered anymore... This rarely happens, and when it does, it's a small group of those Muslims who violently do it.

 Your religion sanctifies the spread of your religion through violence.    And when your young men do exactly what your paedophile prophet commanded, you pretend that you do not know why?

 

Jayed quote      The rest do it peacefully. Of course, I doubt you bothered to care about the second part since that would topple over your incredibly stereotyped views.

 Please come back and get a reality check from me anytime, Jared.       Your religion stinks and it is making Muslims the most hated people on planet earth.

Dreamer

@Shajid

Interesting, I didn't know that fake Korans existed. Can you tell me more?