What Is "Islamophobia"?

Bogan

A "phobia" is "an irrational fear."     Their is nothing irrational about being fearful of Islam.

Dee

         


                           notice that violent religious fanatics don’t make good neighbors.





 ARGUMENT TOPIC : BOGEND PREFERS HIS RELIGIOUS FANATICS TO BE GUN TOTING WHITE MALE  RELIGIOUS   FANATICS       

                    

                                   

Bogan

Incompatible Islam.   

The Muslim concept that state and religion are inseparable is incompatible to the western concept of secular government.

 The Muslim concept that husbands have a right to beat their wives is incompatible to western social attitudes.

 The Muslin concept that Ecclesiastical law is pre eminent over secular law is incompatible with western jurisprudence.

 The Muslim concept that females are minors, and subject to guardian male control, unable to even leave the house or enter into any contract, is incompatible to contemporary western concepts of female equality. 

 The Muslim concept that apostates and blasphemers should be murdered is incompatible to western law and liberal thought.

 The Muslim concept that women should have no say in whom they marry, and that a marriage can occur not requiring the consent of the woman, is incompatible to western ideal of individual rights.

 The Muslim concept that homosexuality should be a capitol offence, is incompatible with western concepts of tolerance towards homosexuals.

 The Muslim concept that allegations of rape must be validated by four male witnesses of Islamic faith is incompatible with western evidentiary jurisprudence.

 The Muslim concept that a raped woman should be punished is incompatible to the western idea that a raped woman is a victim.

 The Muslim concept a man may marry outside of his faith, but that a woman may not, is incompatible to the western values of individual rights and gender equality.

 The Muslim concept that alcohol consumption should be proscribed is incompatible with western traditions.

 The Muslim concept that a man may divorce a woman, simply by reciting 'I divorce thee", three times, but does not give equivalence to women, is incompatible to western concepts of gender equality.

 The Muslim concept that males are filled with "uncontrollable lusts" and that women, by their behaviour and dress are responsible for keeping these lusts contained, and blamed for it if it occurs, is incompatible with the western concept that men are responsible for controlling their own sex drive.

 The contemporary Muslim concept of marrying first cousins to keep property in the family is incompatible to sensible genetic hygiene as practiced in the west.

 The Muslim concept that it is right and valid for their religion to spread by military force and terrorism is incompatible to contemporary western thought.

 The Muslim concept that it can not co exist indefinitely with other religions, but must dominate all others, is incompatible with western ideals of religious tolerance.

 The Muslim concept that their religion can never be criticised and that it is alright to murder anyone who dares to do so, is incompatible with western ideas of free speech.

 The Muslim concept that young females should be married at the onset of mensus is called "pedophilia" in the west.

 The Muslim concept that young females should be genetically mutilated is considered barbaric and cruel in the west, as well as a bloody outrage.

Dee

@Bogan

Barnardot

@Bogan ;Their is nothing irrational about being fearful of Islam.

Being fear full of Islam is irrational and thats why it is called a phobia. 

Being fear full of gays is irrational and thats why its called homophobia.

Being fear full of black people is irrational and thats why they call it racialism.

And all irrational fears are the result of ignorance of the facts or choosing to reject half of the facts. 

Which is why we commonly call these people half brains.

And in the case of Islam they choose to label Islamists the same as extreme militant Islamists.

Christian extremists are more common than Islam extremists and have killed and harmed more people over the years and still do. So is it rational then to be even more fear full of Christianity?

Bogan

@Barnardot

That's funny.   The Amish and the Quakers haven't blown anybody up lately?

MayCaesar

Back when I lived in Russia, people routinely hurled the word "Russophobe" at me or anyone else who criticized anything about Russia: its government, its society, its culture... This kind of conversation would often take place:
A: "Russian government is extremely corrupt."
B: "Oh yeah? What about the American government?"
A: "It is less corrupt."
B: "Of course you would say so. Any Russophobe would."

It seems to me that "Islamophobe", "Transphobe" and "Homophobe" are terms of the same kind. Something people invoke when they do not have a good argument in response to criticism of something they see as sacred.

Barnardot

@Bogan ;The Amish and the Quakers haven't blown anybody up lately?

Just as funny as that 99.99999.% of Muslims havent blown any body up lately either.

Dreamer

Taking the actions of a few extremists and making broad generalizations about the rest is a cherry picking fallacy and stereotype.

"From an early time onward, the goals of the KKK included an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible", and it believed that "Jesus was the first Klansman""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Let's judge all Christians by groups such as Liberty Council, KKK, fundamental latter day saints, west boro baptist church, and more. I propose a more productive debate perhaps ending religious tax breaks or stopping creationism from infiltrating academia. Logic can act a universal vaccine, I prefer to focus on logic based arguments many which are in Richard Dawkin's book the God Delusion. Prebunking all the religions at once including future cults that arise.

Barnardot

@Dreamer ;I propose a more productive debate perhaps ending religious tax breaks or stopping creationism from infiltrating academia. 

Well thats totally good so why not bring it on and post the topic.

i agree with you that this sort of debate is not productive. It could be but the problem is that it attracts people like Half Brain Boy @Bogan. Any thing that has any thing mildly to do with exstreamism gets him going. I mean trying to make out that like derr there are Islamic terrorists so there fore like derr Islamics are terrorists. Its that kind of half brain thinking that I reckon belongs to people who are just as dangerous than the exstreamists who go round with back pack bombs.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Beliefs must earn respect

When hundreds of thousands of Muslims show up in London to condemn Hamas, or the Islamic State, or any specific instance of jihadist savagery, without both-sides-ing anything, then we will know that something has changed. When Muslims by the millions pour into the streets in protest, not over cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad, but over the murder of cartoonists by their own religious fanatics, we will know that we’ve made a modicum of progress.

The Muslim world needs to win a war of ideas with itself, and perhaps several civil wars. It has to de-radicalize itself. It has to transform the doctrine of jihad into something far more benign than it is, and it has to stop supporting its religious fanatics when they come into conflict with non-Muslims. This is what’s so toxic: Many Muslims supporting other Muslims no matter how sociopathic and insane their behavior.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: It's Not Cherry-Picking

@Dreamer

Mainstream Islamic ideas—in particular, beliefs about martyrdom, jihad, blasphemy, and apostasy—inspire terrible acts of violence.  While every religion has its fanatics, there is only one religion on Earth where even its mainstream members of the faith seek to impose their religious taboos on everyone else. There is only one religion that has made it unsafe for people to criticize it—or indeed, for its own members to leave it. Only Muslims routinely fear for their lives when they decide to leave their religion—and this is true, even in the West. If you doubt this, just read some books or listen to some podcasts by ex-Muslims.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Let's Keep This Debate Respectful

@Barnardot said:  Half Brain Boy...

Dreamer

@JulesKorngold

The middle east could also be a geographical area that leads to violence and theocracy. The geopolitical landscape. All the oil alone leads to conflict. Some of the worst claims against Islam are local superstitions and cultures that have been merged with Islam that have no basis at all in Islam. Religion hybridizes.

There is anti-Muslim hate and phobia.

"Palestinian student shot in Vermont is paralyzed from chest down"

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/03/1216852611/palestinian-student-shot-in-vermont-is-paralyzed-from-chest-down-his-family-says

Death penalty for apostasy, anti-LGBT+ hate, and more are humanitarian issues. Yet, as we seen with Christianity I think the number of people who believe in Christianity and now Islam is much lower than self reported. Christianity is increasingly becoming an alt-right hate and extremist group that hides behind protections of freedom of religion. The same will happen with Islam.

Just as anti-vaxxers lie about their religion in order to claim religious exemptions. In this case is whatever religion the anti-vaxxers claim to be the problem? No, its our over respect for religion. After-all, there is always future religion x,y, and z.

Blaming grifters and bad political actors on abusing religion on a particular religion won't solve the problem, it will act like a bad game of whack a mole where another religion simply replaces the old and hate and extremist persist.

The solution, logic based inoculation as a universal vaccine against religion. As well as getting rid of all laws that give religion privilege. Religious based tax breaks, vaccine exemptions, and more. In the end, grifters, malicious people, bad political actors, and those who seeks to gain financial and or political expedient will exploit whatever religion happens to be popular at the time. Whether it be Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Taoism, Scientology, and in this case Islam.    

Islam suffers from infinite regressions. Who created God?

Dee

@JulesKorngold ;

Mainstream Islamic ideas—in particular, beliefs about martyrdom, jihad, blasphemy, and apostasy—inspire terrible acts of violence. While every religion has its fanatics, there is only one religion on Earth where even its mainstream members of the faith seek to impose their religious taboos on everyone else.

How have " they" forced anything on you?

There is only one religion that has made it unsafe for people to criticize it—or indeed, for its own members to leave it.

Seriously? I've watched several public debates between Muslims and non Muslims that surprisingly didn't end in bloodshed.


Only Muslims routinely fear for their lives when they decide to leave their religion—and this is true, even in the West

Really? OK how many lives were lost in the US last year by Muslims leaving Islam?


. If you doubt this, just read some books or listen to some podcasts by ex-Muslims

So that's fine well answer the question above?

Bogan

Dreamer quote   Taking the actions of a few extremists and making broad generalizations about the rest is a cherry picking fallacy and stereotype.

Everybody stereotypes because that is the way human beings think.    Saying "don't stereotype" equates exactly with "don't think."      Is your position that Nazis, and and especially neo-Nazis, can not be negatively stereotyped?     Or, as I suspect, you lefties make exemptions when you prejudge the people that you do not like? 

Dreamer quote   i agree with you that this sort of debate is not productive.

Then you must be down in the garden, dancing with the fairies.     

Dreamer quote       It could be but the problem is that it attracts people like Half Brain Boy @Bogan. Any thing that has any thing mildly to do with exstreamism gets him going. I mean trying to make out that like derr there are Islamic terrorists so there fore like derr Islamics are terrorists. Its that kind of half brain thinking that I reckon belongs to people who are just as dangerous than the exstreamists who go round with back pack bombs. 

Twenty years ago, there were a lot of Europeans who had kumbaya thinking like yours.     Now Europe is waking up that they have through their misplaced humanitarian ideals, that the importation of Muslims into their once peaceful societies has ruined them forever.       Anti immigrant parties are surging in the European polls because even the the wimpy and virtue signaling Euroes have been shocked out of their state of denial by surging rates of very serious criminal behaviour, endemic welfare dependency, no-go zones, and terrorism.   

Anyone with triple digit IQ could figure out that the values, attitudes, and behaviour of Islam are fundamentally incompatible with western society.     What was worse, was that even Dreamer should have had the mental capacity to figure out Muslim immigrants had no intention whatsoever of integrating into the societies they clamoured to barge into.     All it did was create no go zones and parallel cultures for Europeans within their own countries.   It is just amazing that after the negative consequences of Muslim immigration are now so clear to anybody with a modem and a flat screen, that Dreamers like Dreamer still think that there is no problem.   There was no way that I could convince PamelaJohnson that the world was not flat.     And Dreamer has exactly the same mindset.     Any inconvenient facts are just wished away.  

 

Bogan

Juleskorngold quote        The Muslim world needs to win a war of ideas with itself,

That is not going to happen for three reasons.

1.   The first is that Mohammed declared that the values of Islam was the direct instruction of God, and that it could never be "reformed" or altered in any way, because it was already perfect.
2.   The inability of people like Dreamer to even recognise that Islam is incompatible with western civilisation, and a clear threat.
3.   The penchant for people like Dreamer to always find fault with their own civilisation, and to transmit to Muslims living in the west, that our own civilisation is just despicable.    The Muslims reply "yes it is, but don't worry, we are going to change all of that." 


 

Bogan

@Dreamer

Dreamer quote   The middle east could also be a geographical area that leads to violence and theocracy.

 The Middle East is a violent geographical area because most of it is Islamic.     Islam is a violent warrior’s religion which even Hitler praised, and which the world’s most successful genocidal mass murderer, Ghengis Khan, adopted as his state religion.     As a way of justifying war and imperial expansion, Islam has much to recommend it.    Because it is an hierarchical religion, it’s adherents seem to accept that democracy is a fallacy, and being ordered around by some despot is the natural order of things.     

 

Dreamer quote        Some of the worst claims against Islam are local superstitions and cultures that have been merged with Islam that have no basis at all in Islam. Religion hybridizes.

 Since when has the Muslim idea that church and state are inseparable, only been a local idea?      Since when has the Muslim idea that woman are inferior to men, only been a local idea?     Since when has the Muslim idea that revealed law surpassed secular law, only been a local idea?     Since when has the Muslim idea that people who criticise Islam should be murdered, only been a local idea?     Since when has the Muslim idea that people who leave Islam should be murdered, only a local idea?      Since when has the idea that a raped woman is guilty of “fornication”, only been a local idea?     Since when has the idea that Islam should spread through violence and terror, only been a local idea?      Since when has the Muslim idea that it can not live peacefully with other religions, but must always strive to dominate, been only  local idea?     Since when has the Muslim idea that Muslims should not socialise with non Muslims, been only a local idea?      Since when has the Muslim idea that homosexuals should be executed, only been a local idea?

 You are full of sheet, Dreamer.

 

Dreamer quote   Death penalty for apostasy, anti-LGBT+ hate, and more are humanitarian issues.

 And a real humanitarian would instantly recognise that Islam is incompatible with humanitarian ideals.      A person with a functioning brain would recognise that most humanitarian ideals are based upon Christianity.    Which is why Leftists hate Christianity so much.   As a parallel religion, Leftism wants to pretend that it thought up all of the humanitarian ideals .  

 

Dreamer quote       Yet, as we seen with Christianity I think the number of people who believe in Christianity and now Islam is much lower than self reported.

 Okay, fair enough.

 

Dreamer quote      Christianity is increasingly becoming an alt-right hate and extremist group that hides behind protections of freedom of religion. The same will happen with Islam.

 Okay, so you must not negatively stereotype Muslims?     But you can negatively stereotype Christians?       It is just amazing how your brain works (or does not work), Dreamer.      

You make a statement claiming it is just wrong to stereotype, and one post later, you do it yourself?      This is why I walked away from the Left side of politics, Dreamer.     I could see the clear contradictions in their thinking, and how the Left’s arguments only work if the people who advocate them have the capacity for their brains to jump a cog whenever they say something which is either hypocrisy, or a clear contradiction.     My brain does not work that way.  

 

Dreamer quote  Just as anti-vaxxers lie about their religion in order to claim religious exemptions. In this case is whatever religion the anti-vaxxers claim to be the problem? No, its our over respect for religion. After-all, there is always future religion x,y, and z.

 Blaming grifters and bad political actors on abusing religion on a particular religion won't solve the problem, it will act like a bad game of whack a mole where another religion simply replaces the old and hate and extremist persist.

 The solution, logic based inoculation as a universal vaccine against religion. As well as getting rid of all laws that give religion privilege. Religious based tax breaks, vaccine exemptions, and more. In the end, grifters, malicious people, bad political actors, and those who seeks to gain financial and or political expedient will exploit whatever religion happens to be popular at the time. Whether it be Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Taoism, Scientology, and in this case Islam.    

 Islam suffers from infinite regressions. Who created God?

 

Like you, I used to think that all religious people were , but I realise now that I was wrong.     There are many very successful religious people, much more than me, so my present theory is, that religious people are just as smart as anybody else within their own class system, but their brains are just wired up different to mine.    That being said, it is clear to me that some religions today are very much better than others.      Christianity and Buddhism are to my mind the two best mainstream religions because they preach peace and tolerance, and that is evident by the sorts of societies they created that are based upon them.       For you to lump all religions together as being equally dangerous, is for you to once again violate your own claim that stereotyping is wrong.     Personally, I think that your religion of Leftism stinks as bad as Islam.  

Barnardot

@Bogan ;Islam is a violent warrior’s religion which even Hitler praised

No he didnt at all. Adolf praised Christianity and in his manifestero he clearly said that Jews were the anti christ and shouldnt exist. And he clearly announced that he was a Catholic and that God told him to drive in to Poland. Hitler praised the Catholic Church for backing the Nazis and giving them heaps of cash.

I bet Hitler proberly couldnt find any books on Muslim attrocities so all he needed to do was get a book about the Spanish inquisition and read that and then he would have read about Henry 8 and all his purging of anti Christians.

And where did the Muslim extreamists get there ideas about making bombs and blowing up innocent people? Well of course they just needed to go to @Dee land and have a few guinesses with the IRA terrorists. And who have knocked off more innocent people in Africa in the past 2o years than Muslim exstreamists. Christian exstreamists thats who. For every Islamic exsreamist killing you can come up with I can come up with 100 more Cristian extramist killings.

ZeusAres42

@JulesKorngold

What are your views about it?

ZeusAres42

Anyway, I hate terms like this and with phobia at the end. A Phobia is a medical condition that is to with an irrational fear. This sort of stuff in the OP has nothing to do any phobias! This is nothing short of just antipathy toward people of a certain religion, gender, sexual preference, age, immigrants, blacks, and more. Stop beating around the bush and call it exactly what the f*ck it actually is! 

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Improving The World

@Dreamer

While I find the concept of "logic-based inoculation" intriguing, I believe it faces significant challenges. Implementing such a program globally would require overcoming cultural and religious barriers, navigating ethical concerns, and fostering critical thinking skills in diverse populations.

Ultimately, addressing the issues requires a multifaceted approach:

1. Combating religious extremism and intolerance: This requires education, dialogue, and promoting critical thinking skills to challenge harmful interpretations and dogmas.
2. Ensuring secular governance: Separating religion from state affairs is crucial to guaranteeing equal rights and preventing discrimination based on religious beliefs.
3. Addressing underlying socio-economic factors: Poverty, inequality, and lack of opportunities create fertile ground for extremism and violence. Tackling these issues is crucial for promoting peace and stability.
4. Promoting critical thinking and skepticism: Encouraging rational thinking and questioning religious doctrines can empower individuals to resist manipulation and make informed choices.

Barnardot

@ZeusAres42 ;Stop beating around the bush and call it exactly what the f*ck it actually is! 

I reckon he is calling what the f*uck it really is because that’s where hatred and ignorance comes from. From fear and the fear of the unknown. It’s the same with homophobes. There scarred of homos because they don’t know anything about them so naturally they hate them. And the same to also with people who are arachnophobiacs. They are ignorant about spiders and there fore scarred of them and hate them. 

So then you get some one like Half Brain Boy @Bogan who hates Muslims because he is ignorant about them and there for scarred . If you listen to what he says about them and Blacks you can tell that he is extremely Islamophobiac and Blackophobiac.

Bogan

Wikipedia.       Hitler on Islam

Hitler's views on Islam are a matter of controversy. On the one hand, Hitler privately demeaned ethnic groups he associated with Islam, notably Arabs, as racially inferior. On the other hand, he also made private and public statements expressing admiration for what he perceived to be the militaristic nature of Islam and the political sharpness of the Prophet Muhammad.[208]

Hitler meeting Amin al-Husseini, the then Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. December 1941

Among Eastern religions, Hitler described religious leaders such as "Confucius, Buddha, and Muhammad" as providers of "spiritual sustenance".[209] In this context, Hitler's connection to Amin al-Husseini, who served as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem until 1937– which included his asylum in 1941 – has been interpreted by some as a sign of respect, while others characterize it as a relationship born out of political expediency.[210] Starting in 1933, al-Husseini, who had launched a campaign to both expel the British from the Middle East and Jews from both Egypt and Palestine, became impressed by the Jewish boycott policies which the Nazis were enforcing in Germany, and hoped that he could use the anti-semitic views which many in the Arab region shared with Hitler's regime in order to forge a strategic military alliance that would help him eliminate the Jews from Palestine.[211] Despite al-Husseini's attempts to reach out to Germany, Hitler refused to form such an alliance with al-Husseini, fearing that it would weaken relations with Britain.[212][211] During the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine, Husseini strengthened ties with Germany, fostering the spread of Nazi customs in Palestinian strongholds.[213] The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt followed suit. Hitler's influence grew in the region, with the Germany government approving financial and military support for Husseini and the Muslim Brotherhood in 1937.[214][211]

During a meeting with a delegation of distinguished Arab figures, Hitler learned of how Islam motivated the Umayyad Caliphate during the invasion of Gaul. According to Albert Speer, Hitler wished that the Caliphate had won the Battle of Tours against the Franks in 732: "The Mohammedan religion would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"[215] "Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers – already, you see, the world had fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing was Christianity! – then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies heroism and which opens the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so."[216] According to Speer, Hitler believed that if Islam had taken root in central Europe, the Germanic people would have become the "heirs of that religion" and would have "stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire" as Islam, according to him suited the Germanic temperament.[215]

Dee

@Barnardot

ARGUMENT TOPIC: BARNDOOR MAKING MORE  RIDICULOUS COMMENTS AND GETTING CALLED ON THEM

Hitler did praise Islam its pretty well known except by dummies like you.

Also the IRA freedom fighters were a necessity against state terrorism  by the Brits.

You know state terrorism.like you yanks are experts at?

Dee

@Barnardot ;

Well said Barndoor,so your rabid anti - Irish  hate pieces are from hatred and ignorance as you've just admitted ....ZING 

Dreamer

@Barnardot

Hmmm, I thought Adolf praised Islam.

"In public and private, Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler made complimentary statements about Islam as both a religion and a political ideology, describing it as a more disciplined, militaristic, political, and practical form of religion than Christianity is, and commending what they perceived were Muhammad's skills in politics and military leadership."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world

Dreamer

@JulesKorngold

I agree with what you say. I will add that it has been stated many times that poverty and religion cohabitant. I think this is due to a amplification effect. Religion causes poverty and poverty causes religion.

Page 61 9.9 book

"Higher inequality correlates with both higher porn usage and church attendance" You can see how the red vs blue states that religion and inequality correlate.

Page 261 "inequality promotes the extreme varieties of religion."

If you really want to get rid of religion, create a more egalitarian society. If you want a highly religious society with lots of extremists have a highly unequal country. Source:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/religion-and-inequality-in-america/reversing-the-arrow/3C1B56848704C78BD0421DC5CD20386A

Bogan

The most interesting aspect of the wikipedia article was how the Arabs were plotting with Hitler to ethnically cleanse the Jews from the holy land even before the creation of Israel.      Since even before WW2 to the present day, five times it has been proposed that the Jews and the Arabs have separate enclaves within Israel/palestine.     Five times the jews have agreed and five times the Arabs have rejected it.   The problem is Islam.    Mohammad hated the jews because he had based his new religion upon it and he was incensed that the Jews would not forsake their old religion to join his.    That is the reason why the Arabs will never accept any Jews in Israel/palestine.     Islam is a religiously racist religion which not only thinks that it is the only true religion, it has a religious duty to spread itself through force and terrorism.   How any brain dead can defend this evil religion is beyond me?     Whoever defends Islam must have slept through their history lessons at school, and has never picked up a history book since they left school.

ZeusAres42

@JulesKorngold

Do you ever use your own words, do your own research or do you always copy and paste AI content here and make out as if it is you? JulesKorngold said:

@Dreamer

While I find the concept of "logic-based inoculation" intriguing, I believe it faces significant challenges. Implementing such a program globally would require overcoming cultural and religious barriers, navigating ethical concerns, and fostering critical thinking skills in diverse populations.

Ultimately, addressing the issues requires a multifaceted approach:

1. Combating religious extremism and intolerance: This requires education, dialogue, and promoting critical thinking skills to challenge harmful interpretations and dogmas.
2. Ensuring secular governance: Separating religion from state affairs is crucial to guaranteeing equal rights and preventing discrimination based on religious beliefs.
3. Addressing underlying socio-economic factors: Poverty, inequality, and lack of opportunities create fertile ground for extremism and violence. Tackling these issues is crucial for promoting peace and stability.
4. Promoting critical thinking and skepticism: Encouraging rational thinking and questioning religious doctrines can empower individuals to resist manipulation and make informed choices.

https://sapling.ai/ai-content-detector/2cbe5f5145987e3b46e8e1b5a3b8bab7

ZeusAres42

Barnardot said:

@ZeusAres42 ;Stop beating around the bush and call it exactly what the f*ck it actually is! 

I fear these groups and it's not irrational to so. And it's not irrational to fear them. And has nothing to do with bigotry. 

Pretty much what Bogan said. @Barnardot. And completely absurd! 

Barnardot

@ZeusAres42 ;Pretty much what Bogan said. @Barnardot. And completely absurd! 

I properly elaborated of what Half Brain @Bogan said. And what I said is based on sound excepted medical principals. And that is people who have ignorance and hatred of some thing are also profoundly afraid of them. Which is quiet rightly why they are labelled as having phobias.

You see Half Brain @Bogan said: 

Islam is incompatible with western civilization, and a clear threat.

And that is an example of an irrational fear is it not?

I have clearly given my argument to back up what I said.

Now would you like to back up what you said when you said:

And completely absurd!

About my comment?

Barnardot

@ZeusAres42 ;Pretty much what Bogan said. @Barnardot. And completely absurd! 

I properly elaborated of what Half Brain @Bogan said. And what I said is based on sound excepted medical principals. And that is people who have ignorance and hatred of some thing are also profoundly afraid of them. Which is quiet rightly why they are labelled as having phobias.

You see @Bogan said: 

Islam is incompatible with western civilization, and a clear threat.

And that is an example of an irrational fear is it not?

I have clearly given my argument to back up what I said.

Now would you like to back up what you said when you said:

And completely absurd!

About my 

Barnardot

@ZeusAres42 ;Pretty much what Bogan said. @Barnardot. And completely absurd! 

I properly elaborated of what Half Brain @Bogan said. And what I said is based on sound excepted medical principals. And that is people who have ignorance and hatred of some thing are also profoundly afraid of them. Which is quiet rightly why they are labelled as having phobias.

You see @Bogan said: 

Islam is incompatible with western civilization, and a clear threat.

And that is an example of an irrational fear is it not?

I have clearly given my argument to back up what I said.

Now would you like to back up what you said when you said:

And completely absurd!

About my comment

Barnardot

@Dee I would hardly say that Hitler praised Islam is any more true than saying that a peace of cheap trash plastic is the same as a proper card wallet. Just because he met with a Mufti and recriuted thousands of Muslim soldiers does not meen in any way that he praised Islam. Did he point his bottom and fart to the East 2 times a day? I bet he didn"t. Did he swear to being a devout Catholic? Did the article from Wikapedia above what you just wrote say:

Hitler's views on Islam are a matter of controversy.

ZeusAres42

@Barnardot (AKA swolliw)


Tip: Stop misrepresenting what I say and I won't do the same to you. Simple really. 

Barnardot

@Dee Continued.
So did Hitler praise Islam? No he didnt.

Was the IRA a terrorist group? Yes they were.
Did they blow up innocent people? Yes they did.

Is Dee shy of the truth? Yes he is.

Freedom fighters my anal passage.

ZeusAres42

@Barnardot

Also, you are talking again. You like @Bogan think Bigotry's is some sort of fear. Begone thinks it's rational fear but you think this medically irrational. You back up your absurdity bruh. 

This has nothing to do with what a phobia is as defend within the medical literature. It's not that hard to understand tbh. 

Barnardot

@ZeusAres42 You will find phobia:

 A phobia is an anxiety disorder, defined by a persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation.

And even in the medical context it still applies. 

I have not psycho analized Brian Boy but I properly gave one of his symptoms as one of the medical signs. What he said was totally irrational. If you care to analize any one with phobias then you will see that they will display any one or more of the medical signs. The most common I find is that they are:

• Being raised by adults with phobia or anxiety

ZeusAres42

@Barnardot

So, you are saying then that Homophobia, xenophobia, etc are all medical conditions? I don't think Bogans views are logical but nor do I find yours. 

Barnardot

@ZeusAres42 Continued.
So is labelling ordinary descent peace loving law abiding citizens as being the same as being ultra evil, criminal, murderous terrorists a phobia? Yes it is. Because people like Half a Brian display hatred and ignorance out of fear. Half a Brain has a morbid fear of Blacks and Muslims.
Why dont you ask him your self and ask Half a Brian @Bogan if he would walk up to a Blackie or a Muslim and give them a hug. He would rather run to the hills I bet. Because he is so irrationally scarred of them. Thats why.

ZeusAres42

@Barnardot

You obviously have no idea what my argument is or you are just being silly. I am not interested in Bogan rn. I just want you to answer simple question - Do you think bigotry, racism, antipathy, aversion, and hatred are medically defined phobias? You seem like you do. 

MayCaesar

I remember an old Soviet joke... One of the variations of it goes roughly like this:

- Do you believe in communism?
- Of course I do.
- Then if you had two cars, would you give one to me?
- Naturally.
- And if you had two houses, would you give one to me?
- Without a second though.
- And if you had two loafs of bread...
- No.
- Huh? Why not?
- You see... I actually have two loafs of bread.

This kind of summarizes the difference between regular people believing in bad ideologies, and fanatics believing in them. They both have the same general beliefs, fanatics are just the ones who dare to act on them. 

It is absolutely true that many Muslims are peaceful, friendly folks who will never hurt a fly. The question is, do they believe that an infidel fly should be hurt? They will not hurt it themselves, but most of them will believe that the ideal version of them should. And that is why you see such outrageous statistics as 40% people in certain regions believing that suicide bombings promoting Islam are justified. Of course only a negligible fraction of those people will partake in such bombings - but the fact that all of them believe that such bombings are justified should give everyone a pause.

Imagine if 40% of Americans believed that, say, Black people should be murdered on sight. Would you feel comfortable with this statistic if only a few Americans per year actually did that? Rhetorical question.

JulesKorngold

@ZeusAres42 said:  
Do you ever use your own words, do your own research or do you always copy and paste AI content here and make out as if it is you?

See my new debate "Does Using Artificial Intelligence Enhance Debates?"

Dee

@MayCaesar

This kind of summarizes the difference between regular people believing in bad ideologies, and fanatics believing in them. They both have the same general beliefs, fanatics are just the ones who dare to act on them. 

It's interesting that the state of Israel is being watched by us all and allowed to totally obliterate Palestine all because the alleged goal of Israel is the annihilation of Hamas , how many people have to die before every member of Hamas is killed?

Would you also brand this a type of fanaticism?

It is absolutely true that many Muslims are peaceful, friendly folks who will never hurt a fly. The question is, do they believe that an infidel fly should be hurt? They will not hurt it themselves, but most of them will believe that the ideal version of them should. And that is why you see such outrageous statistics as 40% people in certain regions believing that suicide bombings promoting Islam are justified

Which I agree is pretty appalling , how do you even begin to combat that?

Also these Muslims are textbook Muslims as in they're consistent with the teachings of Islam , how would they know any better for they believe it  justified and in accordance with the wishes of Allah?

. Of course only a negligible fraction of those people will partake in such bombings - but the fact that all of them believe that such bombings are justified should give everyone a pause.

It's does , but how do you combat it?

Imagine if 40% of Americans believed that, say, Black people should be murdered on sight.

Yet the majority of Americans believed that blacks were inferior to whites and segregated them up to the 1960's which was in keeping in line with biblical teachings .this was from a nation that called itself a  Christian nation and still does.

The reason it's not a popular view now is because the religion and its teachings had to evolve with times and change or perish,  Islam is several steps behind in its evolution but will  evolve or perish I think but its not going to happen overnight.

MayCaesar

@Dee

I prefer to talk about issues separately. Israeli actions may be seen as fanatic, but they do not seem to be driven by the same kind of religious zeal as those of Hamas fighters. There is a difference between (possibly) disproportionate response to aggression, and aggression itself. If someone tries to murder my children and I kill them in defense, my actions can be seen as excessive - but only a very twisted moral system will see my actions as comparable to those of the wannabe murderer.

I do not know how to change the minds of 1.8 billion people, or even a significant fraction of that. I am not trying to solve any problems here, but merely advocating for honest outlook. Things like "all religions are flawed, so let us not single out Islam", or "who are YOU to criticize someone else's religion?" are just intellectual cowardice and laziness. Specifics are important, nuance is important. Islam and Christianity are different religions, not only in their current state, but in their very foundational structure. There are reasons why Christian nations have moved on from a lot of barbarianism that used to take place there, while Muslim nations have not. It is possible to not hold it against individual Muslims, but recognition of this difference is important.

In general, on the West nowadays it is very fashionable to display some kind of complete neutrality (except towards those who do not accept that neutrality - they are all evil, of course): everything is okay, everything is equal, everything is relative... To me that is an intellectual and moral collapse. Individual freedom is separate from freedom from facts. Individual freedom is about taking action and bearing its consequences. It is not about ignoring facts and pretending that the Universe is whatever you want it to be.

Dee

@MayCaesar

I prefer to talk about issues separately. Israeli actions may be seen as fanatic, but they do not seem to be driven by the same kind of religious zeal as those of Hamas fighters.

So do I but I felt that the fanaticism is not one sided and  the end result is slaughter of mostly innocents.

 There is a difference between (possibly) disproportionate response to aggression, and aggression itself. If someone tries to murder my children and I kill them in defense, my actions can be seen as excessive.

Yes , but in this case the actions are excessive and pretending otherwise won't change that.


 - but only a very twisted moral system will see my actions as comparable to those of the wannabe murderer.

Ok , talk me through how the total bombardment of Palestine in retaliation is not excessive and how is not part of  a very twisted moral system?
 j

I do not know how to change the minds of 1.8 billion people, or even a significant fraction of that. I am not trying to solve any problems here, but merely advocating for honest outlook

I'm asking for solutions as in how do we arrive at one? What do mean mean by " honest outlook" 


. Things like "all religions are flawed, so let us not single out Islam",

I haven't said that , I dislike  Islam like I  do most religions.


or "who are YOU to criticize someone else's religion?

Criticise away.

" are just intellectual cowardice and laziness

I agree.


. Specifics are important, nuance is important. Islam and Christianity are different religions, not only in their current state, but in their very foundational structure.

How do their foundational structures differ?  They are both Abrahamic religions and  the prophet Abrahamn was a founder of the faith and both rely on teachings of a holy book.


 There are reasons why Christian nations have moved on from a lot of barbarianism that used to take place there, while Muslim nations
 have not

What are the reasons?  Does christian bararianism not take place anymore?

. It is possible to not hold it against individual Muslims, but recognition of this difference is important.

I know all about Muslim nations,  if left to their own devices how do you think that would pan out?

In general, on the West nowadays it is very fashionable to display some kind of complete neutrality (except towards those who do not accept that neutrality - they are all evil, of course): everything is okay, everything is equal, everything is relative... 

Neutrality on what specifically? 

To me that is an intellectual and moral collapse. Individual freedom is separate from freedom from facts

Are you saying it's cowardice to not speak your mind ? If so I agree. What are the facts regadring our conversation? Are they open to interpretation? 

. Individual freedom is about taking action and bearing its consequences.

I agree. 

 It is not about ignoring facts and pretending that the Universe is whatever you want it to be.

Again I agree.

Bogan

ZuesAres42  quote        You like @Bogan think Bigotry's is some sort of fear. Begone thinks it's rational fear……..

 bigotry

/ˈbɪɡətri/     noun

                obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

 bigotry

the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life:

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Bigotry is an irrational or unreasonable fear.   There is nothing bigoted about being fearful of Islam.     If a group of people have a holy book which declares people like yourself as sub human “We have made unbelievers out of base matters” and “the vilest of all creatures” …….

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Koran 70:39
We have created the unbelievers out of base matters.

Koran 98:1-8
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

………and this holy book instructs this group of people to make war, kill, mutilate, and terrorise people who are not members of this group……..

 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Koran 8:12
Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

 

Koran 9:5
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them……..

 

Koran 9:73
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

…….and furthermore, instructs members of that group to never make friends with people who are non members of that group….

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Koran 4:144
Believers, do not choose the unbelievers rather than the faithful as your friends. Would you give Allah a clear proof against yourselves ?

 

Koran 5:51
Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

…….then you would have to be a damned fo-ol like Barnadot to claim that fear and loathing of Islam is in any way irrational or unreasonable

 

 

 

Bogan

MayCaesar quote  I do not know how to change the minds of 1.8 billion people, or even a significant fraction of that.  quote   

Well, one way is for the leaders of the western world to stop making supportive statements about Islam and to tell all Muslims to reform their evil religion.    Islam sucking western academics should stop attacking western civilisation, which they apparently all hate but prefer to live in, and start attacking Islam instead.      Feminists should attack Islam instead of politely looking the other way and pretending that Islam is not anti women.       Homosexuals should attack Islam as inimical to their own health and safety, instead of marching around with "GAYS FOR ISLAM" signs.  

Dee

@Bogan