What are your thoughts on the rise of authoritarianism both in America and globally?

jack

Openminded said:

Should Americans be concerned about the increasing chance of authoritarianism

Hello O:

Indeed, we should!

In this great country of ours, the bright light of democracy is flickering out.  I shudder to think what'll happen if it's completely extinguished.   We are sleepwalking our way into fascism, people.

WAKE UP AMERICA! 

excon

John_C_87

@jack
@Openminded

A criminal law is a set of rules and regulations that define certain behavior as a crime. It outlines the prohibited actions or omissions and establishes the penalties or sanctions for engaging in those illegal activities. Criminal laws are created by legislatures or statutory bodies and enforced by law enforcement agencies and the judicial system. On the other hand, a United States Constitutional Right refers to the fundamental rights guaranteed to individuals by the United States Constitution. These rights are protected by the Constitution and its amendments and are considered essential in upholding individual liberties and ensuring fair treatment and due process under the law. Constitutional rights are typically broader in scope than criminal laws, as they encompass a range of civil, political, and individual liberties, such as freedom of speech, religion, and the right to privacy. While criminal laws specifically focus on defining and punishing criminal behavior, constitutional rights protect individuals from government interference or infringement upon their fundamental liberties. Constitutional rights act as a safeguard against potential abuses of power by the state and provide individuals with legal protections and guarantees in various aspects of life, such as the criminal justice system, freedom of expression, and privacy rights. In summary, criminal laws pertain to the regulation of illegal behavior and the corresponding punishment, while constitutional rights are inherent and protected rights afforded to individuals by the United States Constitution to safeguard their liberties and restrict government action.

AI Chat (deepai.org)

individuals by the United States Constitution

The rights of the people are guaranteed by the United States Constitution. No rights, no guarantee, it doesn’t mean the world is authoritarian, it means the world’s democracy is becoming less regulated does not hold a state of the union with regulation by explaining what is "right." People tend to explain only what is "wrong" and even use the wrong to describe what they want to be "right." What exactly do the people expect to happen when pressuring by vote to pass a criminal law that is enforced and not establish a constitutional right to be held as a united state between the people? Having a criminal law, or human right that swings both ways on the same written crime is not a United States Constitutional Right. The state of the union is broken, and the criminal law becomes double talk.

individual liberties, such as freedom of speech, religion

Freedom of speech is the words liberty, as the freedom of press is the words liberty, the creator of the words, and written forms are the same and are a united state or they are not a united state. Religion in the 1st Amendment is not described as a freedom of religion it is described at the opposite end of the 1st Amendment as peaceful assembly.

Dee

Sadly the US has lost its way its quiet remarkable that a bullying bigot  racist and sexual predator like Trump was president in the first place ,his famous quote about being able to shoot someone and get away with it was basically acknowledging the fact that he realises those who vote for him are id-ts., the tragedy is when those who voted for him heard him say these words they somehow thought it a compliment.

It's pretty incredible that 148 countries agreed the actions of Israel.were unjustified yet the US disagreed under a disgraceful decision by the utterly useless Biden and his goverment.

The US claims to be a christian nation and American christians are bellowing about the " justice" and ," morality" of pounding men  ,women and mostly children into the ground in Palestine under the ridiculous excuse they're trying to elimste Hamas, seriously?

Hamas have the Israeli hostages so they're basically admitting they couldn't give a fig for the hostages its about slaughter nd revenge nothing else.

Hamas are savages we all know this but it's absurd to point out the immorality of Hamas whilst engaging in the very same behavior yourself.

Trump will very possibly be next president and it won't matter how much damage he and his cohorts do.to decent Americans and America he will still maintain his cult like reverence, he knows the game well blame foreigners and commies  on all your woes whip up the crowd into a frenzy  and play up to apple pie and ice cream patriotic vision he pretends to hold of the US,  Trump is the master of the emotional argument which constantly plays into his followers as in its us against the world.

If Trump.does a second term the US is f-cked.

John_C_87

Sorry didn't know this was a political promotional debate........

Bogan

Now let’s see?     Even the Democrats know that Biden in unelectable.       There is no longer a southern US border.       The Houthis, who are a proxy of Iran, have now effectively closed the Red Sea to international shipping.     These Iranian proxies are now shooting at US warships who are forbidden by the Biden administration from shooting back.     The withdrawal of the US from Afghanistan turned the USA into a laughing stock of the world.      The Biden family corruption is now so obvious that it can no longer be concealed, even if a corrupt Democrat administration can still be relied upon to never prosecute a Biden.     Democrat cities and states are bankrupt while Republican cities and states are thriving.   Productive taxpaying people are fleeing high taxing, red tape riddled, Democrat areas to live in Republican areas, and they are taking their taxes and their business skills with them.    Large chain stores are fleeing Democrat areas as they are sick and tired of Democrat voters looting their stores.   The political persecution of the Dems leading political rival is so obvious to most Americans that even traditional Democrat voters are feeling sympathetic to Trump, who’s approval rating is now 66% as opposed to Biden’s 33%.

 

And all jack can do to help corrupt and senile Biden is to imply that when Trump is re-elected he will become will be a dictator?      Yeah, sure. 

Openminded

Argument Topic: Now let’s see?

@Bogan

What are your thoughts on the rise of authoritarianism both in America and globally?

MayCaesar

Freedom, independence and diversity are only possible on the solid foundation of an orderly system. Friedrich Hayek explained it very well in his thought-provoking "Road to Serfdom": arbitrary system of governance, with constantly changing legal rules and norms, leads to chaos and corruption, not freedom and independence. Trump, Biden, Sanders and other senile demagogues with their promises to solve every problem in existence should they be elected are doing nothing but destroying everyone's trust in the institutions. What trust is there to be had when every 4 years any rule can be turned around? Today your company gets subsidies for producing fuel, and tomorrow it is taxed into oblivion - how are you to build your business? Only one way: to collate with the government and to make sure that whoever is going to be in power next is bought out.

If anything, I would like to see more people express their respect for a solid moral, political and social foundation, and less people advocate for whacky things like "gender fluidity" or "net zero emissions". When you have a solid moral, political and social foundation, then you think about what you can accomplish in the future, great things such as colonization of other planets or building thermonuclear fusion plants. While when you have that garbage, then you think about what else to dismantle - you think about breaking things versus building things.

John_C_87

@Dee
The US claims to be a christian nation and American christians are bellowing about the " justice" and ," morality" of pounding men  ,women and mostly children into the ground in Palestine under the ridiculous excuse they're trying to elimste Hamas, seriously?

Okay, I'm going to pretend I don't know what you are talking about and ask a question about the united state claims to be Christian nation. Are you sure it is not some or many Christians claim America is a Christian Nation? The United States of America was partly model after the Quaker religion which is an offshoot of Christianity. It doesn't mean America is a Christian nation. The 1st Amendment reminds us as right the Congress can pass no law respecting religion Consitutioinal or criminal for if and whe the Cogress of the United States is empty of the people, by the people, there is not law passed by Congress. It is a service to the people with no creator.

Does the problem of understanding come from the principle of united states can only mean a collection boundary of law which make up American States. For the freedom of speech and press both say united state can have multiple meaning, and the largest state is the majority right to vote or no right to vote we are speaking of held and contained principles?

The United States of America can and does mean states of criminal law between all people. Unlike many nations which Constitutions which are collections of states of criminal law only that are then closed inside smaller networks like the American states struggling as commonwealth with only criminal laws to guide them. Dee your idea of a Presidant is based off of criminal law not United States Consitutional Right written from a Declaration of Independence from foreign infuences of only criminal law. All men are created equal by the actions of ablilty described as being a President. The number of votes does not set the connection to any one mans abilaties to pass or fail. Some of the worlds smartest men and women can still fail to hold all men equal.

The issue of authoritarianism is women do not even have a legal obligation in America to hold themselves as all equal and describe all men attempting to do so as part of group of men who act against them in discrimination of some kind. This has spread as a practice of criminal law enforcement to the middle east as women seek power in their own governing in America, and the hostages are simply P.O.W. as the powers of voting have been poorly regulated to ensure a form of liberty to any general public including both Israel and Hamas by a lack of creation of united states constitutional rights. Constitutional Rights are rights to describe a liberty from the accusations of criminal wrong, which is present in all law written as criminal laws written as what should be a week human right with no liberty.  

Openminded

Argument Topic: Friedrich Hayek explained it very well in his thought-provoking "Road to Serfdom": arbitrary system of governance,

@MayCaesar

Your use of ¨solid¨ and ¨orderly¨ leads me to believe that you propose one authoritarian leader to rule indeterminately. While I understand that ¨order¨, having strict rules and regulations, may be comforting to many allowing others to rule them - others are more free-thinking and welcome change and diversity as enlightenment and growth. E pluribus unum - America´s motto. One man or woman should never be allowed control of a nation. I struggle with the two-party system which sets us up automatically for failure - there can only be one winner and one loser,. That´s a problem. But I digress. One man/woman cannot be allowed rule over an entire nation. This is fascism. And this is Trump. And this is too much power that leads to evil.

Openminded

Argument Topic: If anything, I would like to see more people express their respect for a solid moral, political and social foundation, and less people advocate for whacky things like "gender fluidity" or "net zero emissions".

@MayCaesar

And what constitutes a solid moral, political and social foundation? Are you suggesting one man should decide this? E pluribus unum is what America was founded on. Diversity, tolerance, compassion, humanity.

While I´ll admit that gender fluidity may sound whacky, it´s really quite harmless and a silly thing to incite people wouldn´t you agree? Could it be that some are more narrow minded and intolerant and tend to sensationalize and demonize others when their tolerance levels are pushed beyond their comfort level? The goal of net zero emissions is to benefit humanity as a whole and to ensure our future generations are afforded a clean, safe, stable environment. Too generous for you? But yet you seek more attention to be placed on ¨colonization of other planets and building thermonuclear fusion plants¨?  We have to figure out how to exist peacefully on earth first.

MayCaesar

@Openminded

I have said nothing about the particular political implementation of these principles. Alternativity of power is one of the cornerstones of any organizational success, and I personally would prefer a system in which no one holds monopoly on coercive power whatsoever, not even temporarily. Such a system, however, still would be founded on certain basic principles that are not a subject to change, and the more the society agrees with the importance of existence and acceptance of such principles (not uncritical, but acceptance), the better the foundation is upon which something worthwhile can be built.

Trump is not a person who can rule a nation single-handedly; this is complete nonsense. Even Putin or Jinping do not rule single-handedly, and their systems do not even feature functional separation of powers or alternativity of power (Jinping is officially a lifetime leader of the country, and Putin has used and will use various tricks to stay in power indefinitely). For Trump to become the father of the nation, the entire system will have to be redesigned, and there is no sign of that happening.

I think that the idea that biology is less important than personal whims is extremely harmful, just like any other massive denial of reality. It is as harmful as religion, and it can lead to the same consequences as an engineer building bridges on the principles of alchemy instead of chemistry. Again, when talking about solid foundation from which to build everything else, utmost respect for facts, for truth, for logic is one of its necessary elements.
Your last claim is just... as I said in another thread, sad. The fact that not all problems on Earth are sold gets you stuck in wound patching, unable to see anything beyond the immediate inconveniences. I would rather have a showman in power who, at least, gets people somewhat inspired, than a meekly guy/gal talking about windmills.

Dreamer

@Openminded

Just so you know MayCaesar is more racist than Bogan, just better at concealing it. For example May compared Proud Boys to BLM. Calling BLM the elephant in the room and Proud Boys a mouse, I view this as saying Proud Boys are much more racist than BLM.

May also openly states that BLM is more racist than the terrorist group Proud Boys.

The Proud Boys Are Officially Considered A Terrorist Group ... - HuffPo

Despite May's supposed logically epistemology questioning May is possibly the worst troll on this site, though Dee makes a contender. I put May on mute and I suggest you do the same, DNFTT.

Dee

@Dreamer

***Despite May's supposed logically epistemology questioning May is possibly the worst troll on this site, though Dee makes a contender. I put May on mute and I suggest you do the same, DNFTT.***

Everyone who challenges your copy and pasted postmodernist WOKE style bull cr-p you deem a troll which is a patently obvious avoidance tactic you use to avoid defending your nonsense.

My first encounter with you was on green issues where you sneeringly dismissed the concerns regards costings to average working class people your only response was basically to say that it's a pity about them.

Individuals like you are self entitled , spoiled,  arrogant little wannabees who spout the latest WOKE nonsense thinking you're being " hip " and : edgy," whilst the nonsense you spout is actually used to cause division and exclusivity

I care not that you like several children here call me or others trolls,  from day one on here I said I would debate fairly anyone who wanted such , I always let others throw the first punch and then they get like back.

If you ever feel up to actually debating instead of whining constantly like a second rate Greta Thunberg that would be great.

Come on you use terminology like " white gaze" little realising how ridiculous such is.

Also just to point out a glaring fact to you, groups like BLM actually are regressive and divisive which would fit perfectly with your mindset.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Global Authoritarianism

This response is the result of research with a chatbot.

It is not inevitable.  We can counter authoritarianism.  Here are some ways:  

• Defend democratic institutions: Upholding the rule of law, protecting a free press, and strengthening independent judiciaries are vital to safeguard democratic values.
• Challenge disinformation and propaganda: Critical thinking, media literacy, and fact-checking are essential tools in the fight against fake news and manipulated narratives.
• Foster economic opportunity and social inclusion: Addressing inequality, ensuring equitable access to resources, and promoting social mobility can undercut the appeal of authoritarian promises.
• Promote global cooperation and solidarity: Democracies must stand together, defending shared values and supporting democratic transitions in other countries.

The future is made by the actions we take today.

Bogan

@Dreamer ;   Just so you know MayCaesar is more racist than Bogan, just better at concealing it.

I resent that!     MayCaesar is nowhere near as racist as I am.      I am shocked and truly hurt by that false allegation.

MayCaesar

Dreamer said:

@Openminded

Just so you know MayCaesar is more racist than Bogan, just better at concealing it. For example May compared Proud Boys to BLM. Calling BLM the elephant in the room and Proud Boys a mouse, I view this as saying Proud Boys are much more racist than BLM.

May also openly states that BLM is more racist than the terrorist group Proud Boys.

The Proud Boys Are Officially Considered A Terrorist Group ... - HuffPo

Despite May's supposed logically epistemology questioning May is possibly the worst troll on this site, though Dee makes a contender. I put May on mute and I suggest you do the same, DNFTT.

I think this condition is called "schizophrenia": when you routinely see around you what is not there. Treatments for this exist, just so you know.

Openminded

Argument Topic: I think this condition is called "schizophrenia": when you routinely see around you what is not there. Treatments for this exist, just so you know.

@MayCaesar @Dreamer
And I view THAT as Trumpism - projection, gaslighting, and flimflam hocus pocus B-S.
Trumpism is spreading and we´ll do all we can to stop it.

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

• Defend democratic institutions: Upholding the rule of law, protecting a free press, and strengthening independent judiciaries are vital to safeguard democratic values.

Upholding the rule of law. The problem here is this idea becomes literal and United States Constitutional Right is not upheld. United States Constitutional Right is law and not only is it not upheld it is interpreted like criminal law. Democratic values cannot be protected it there is no United States Constitutional Right protecting them. This means law written without crime or criminal accusations and on truths that are self-evidently right. To find a position in principle there should be a series of three Rights to establish a United State within right as a navigational beacon setting a course to established justice.

Protecting Free Press.

There is no Federal United States Constitutional Right as free press it is a State Constitutional law. This is a one-sided argument and State Constitutional law is not a higher level of governing of United States Constitutional Right. Free press as a cost law must be proven to be something written which has no cost or price to in whole truth be free. This is a much higher goal than what is enforced by the States criminal law system. The Amendments made to the United States Consitution are Bills of rights not criminal laws. It is clear instruction on what can be done to be right and not what cannot be done as a crime. We the people of the United States of America are to be looking for the more perfectstate of the union and this is a much more perfect right to describe the abilities of expressive liberties. Holding the preamble and the 1st Amendment together iis even more powerful when it can be done.

I have always been willing to listen and reply to any claim where the cost or price of speaking or writing publicly in which an assembly is formed peacefully has come with or without costs or price. Media however thrives and depends on cost as a form of livelihood, and this comes at great risk of not always knowing the price one will pay.

John_C_87

I do not understand either group to be racist it is just both are by United States Constitution described as potential slaves and this creates a hiden enemy to their liberty. The process that would enslave them both is conditional to criminal law and like a women documented withing the United States Constitution as a law containing Right both groups are incidental by the peoples ideas of proper legislation. Keep in mind please when a United States Constitutional Right does not exist it is possible for people to be placed by limited oppions of fact as violators of criminal law which includes descrimination. Poor leadership is brought into question when we see only crimes telling the people what to do in sociaty without a law of right there is no liberty, and no liberty means no freedom.

Humans are great hunters. We dig holes as traps with criminal law for the wicked and cruel yet do not always have the sense to bring a ladder to get out of the hole we are digging, when digging them deep. When searching for the more perfect union with established justice the choice of direction the people take all come with their own set of risks.

John_C_87

@MayCaesar
when you routinely see around you what is not there.

The idea of prejudice is there it is freedom of speech and press, so it is out of your control sometimes. The one freedom of both speech and press as a united state is the change of the meaning and conditions of words themselves not the liberty of the creator of the words. A person can be given an option of wording if they do not know a better state of the union with justice as a common defense to the general welfare.

Bogan

I lived through a time when the Right was the Establishment, and they were the ones who practiced political censorship, and who corrupted democracy in order to stay in power in perpetuity.      In those days it was the Left who fought for free speech, aided by a largely impartial media who fought against the excesses of the Right.      To this day, I still believe that the Deep State Right in the USA assassinated President John F. Kennedy.  But today it is the Left which has become the Establishment and it is they who are suppressing free speech and doing whatever it takes to stay in power for perpetuity.

Like so many failing political and economic ideologies, the Left side of politics has made such a mess of their own countries that the usually apathetic electorate is moving en masse to the Right.    So today, I have stopped supporting Leftism and now support the Right.   But I know that the pendulum always swings, and I am certain that sooner of later, the Right will once again become the enemies of democracy.   But that is a long way off and too their credit, today it is the Right who has parties full of intelligent ad principled people, and it is the Right who are the defenders of free speech and Democracy..

Here in Australia, our most woke, left wing state is the state of Victoria.     Like other left wing states around the world, it is Australia's most bankrupt.    Leftist Robin Hood economics has seen corporations and inventive, productive taxpayers flee the state and it's ever increasing taxes and red tape.    It is so dependent upon identity politics to stay in power that it has made it illegal to criticise Muslims or any other group that the Left depends upon for votes.  Instead of ever concentrating upon bread and butter issues which affect ordinary people, it like so many Left wing socialist states, always embarks upon super expensive grandiose public works programs which benefit mainly the public service and their union mates.    Not surprisingly, these grandiose projects costs always balloon out of control as more and more people who contribute to Labor party election funds find new and inventive ways to milk the system.

All over the world, Leftism is on the nose.      I think it i funny that those who support Leftism on this site refuse to see he shortcomings of the ideology that they support, and instead blather on about how the Right is a threat to democracy.

John_C_87

@Bogan
Constitution Act 1975 (legislation.vic.gov.au)

I just skimmed over Victorian Constitution and it has no Bill of Rights along with that it is a Parliamentary form of governing based around a Monarchy and Crown. Could take a while to read. Like in the American States free speech is supported by a Bill of Rights but is not supported by any facts of what free really means as fact. Verbal expressions are made without cost or price and this goal is very high and almost impossible to achieve as a goal to be Right. In going over many of the Preambles of the State's Constitutions in the state of the union with their Bills of Right there is no collection of truths, whole truths, or self-evident truths to navigate and hold a course as a State of how to be right and free of all criminal accusations when practicing this so-called parts of a their own Bill of Rights.

Openminded

Argument Topic: But today it is the Left which has become the Establishment and it is they who are suppressing free speech and doing whatever it takes to stay in power for perpetuity.

@Bogan

I lived through a time when the Right was the Establishment, and they were the ones who practiced political censorship, and who corrupted democracy in order to stay in power in perpetuity.      In those days it was the Left who fought for free speech, aided by a largely impartial media who fought against the excesses of the Right.      To this day, I still believe that the Deep State Right in the USA assassinated President John F. Kennedy.  But today it is the Left which has become the Establishment and it is they who are suppressing free speech and doing whatever it takes to stay in power for perpetuity.

The left and their cancel culture, though I believe well intended, started the whole free speech war. Because they were able to empathize with blacks  being constantly reminded and subjugated by the display of racist statues in their neighborhoods, they called for their removal. This provoked the (possibly racist ya think?) right wing extremists to outrage. I believe, in America, it is the right wing extremists needing to counter punch with more outrageous suppression of free speech. And to own the libs. They continue to blur the lines of free speech, mocking and abusing our first amendment rights, and stoking more anger and hatred. 

RonDeSantis, Gov. FL, starting with his ¨Don´t say gay¨ laws, has been trying to suppress free speech in a myriad of ways.

https://www.vox.com/politics/23622299/ron-desantis-first-amendment-press-new-york-times-v-sullivan

How will Trump suppress free speech? He suggested the ¨termination of all rules...even those found in the Constitution¨

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/fact-check-did-donald-trump-call-to-suspend-the-constitution/ar-AA1fIliY

Like so many failing political and economic ideologies, the Left side of politics has made such a mess of their own countries that the usually apathetic electorate is moving en masse to the Right.    So today, I have stopped supporting Leftism and now support the Right.   But I know that the pendulum always swings, and I am certain that sooner of later, the Right will once again become the enemies of democracy.   But that is a long way off and too their credit, today it is the Right who has parties full of intelligent ad principled people, and it is the Right who are the defenders of free speech and Democracy.

Honestly, this is laughable. Republicans are unable to work together within their own party. They´ve lost five speakers that were unable to work with their republican colleagues.

• Newt Gingrich: Resigned and left Congress.
• Dennis Hastert: Resigned and later went to prison for sex abuse.
• John Boehner: Resigned and left Congress.
• Paul Ryan: Resigned and left Congress.
• Kevin McCarthy: Resigned and left Congress   

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-so-many-members-of-congress-are-calling-it-quits/ar-AA1ldqfd

And now we have Mike Johnson, who says that the separation of church and state is a misnomer. Another right wing, white nationalist.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-so-many-members-of-congress-are-calling-it-quits/ar-AA1ldqfd

Here in Australia, our most woke, left wing state is the state of Victoria.

Here in America the right extremists, Trump, DeSantis,  plucked the word ¨woke¨ , distorted its meaning and repeated it ad nauseum as something evil and nefarious. Woke means being alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism. I´d say that being woke and not ignorant would be the desired position to take.

Like other left wing states around the world, it is Australia's most bankrupt.    Leftist Robin Hood economics has seen corporations and inventive, productive taxpayers flee the state and it's ever increasing taxes and red tape.    It is so dependent upon identity politics to stay in power that it has made it illegal to criticise Muslims or any other group that the Left depends upon for votes. 

Because the left is woke and defends the subjugated, does not mean they need votes. How utterly cynical and perhaps a projection.

Instead of ever concentrating upon bread and butter issues which affect ordinary people, it like so many Left wing socialist states, always embarks upon super expensive grandiose public works programs which benefit mainly the public service and their union mates.    Not surprisingly, these grandiose projects costs always balloon out of control as more and more people who contribute to Labor party election funds find new and inventive ways to milk the system.

It seems that herein is the difference between the left and right in America. Money is the #1 issue for the right, winning is #2. For the left it is morality, supporting the disadvantaged, being aware of, and supporting programs that invest in future generations (global warming, corporate greed, corporation profiteering, pharmaceutical greed, racism and fighting disinformation) are the key issues. Do you believe investing in climate change initiatives is too costly? We spend on average one billion for every climate disaster in this country. I believe the right is short-sighted and a tad bit greedy. They want their money and screw the future generation. ¨A study in 2005 estimated that for every $1 invested in disaster risk mitigation, $4 was saved in post-disaster rebuilding efforts. New data in 2019 showed $1 spent on mitigation measures could save $11 post-disaster.¨

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/04/natural-disaster-recovery-costs-set-to-spiral-study-shows/

All over the world, Leftism is on the nose.      I think it i funny that those who support Leftism on this site refuse to see he shortcomings of the ideology that they support, and instead blather on about how the Right is a threat to democracy.

It´s understandable that angry, poor and wayward Americans were looking for a hero to fix everything for them. Trump was a populist demagogue (and I believe angry that Obama - a black man - was more successful than him) and should never have been POTUS. He is a clinical and authoritarian narcissist who will stop at nothing to gain control and become supreme king. He conned his displaced Americans, and still laughs at their ignorance, made promises that were never kept, manipulated them and used tactics that the most evil of all leaders, Hitler, used. ¨Fake Media¨ was cleverly used (he is a master at promoting himself) to set up his followers to believe and trust only in him. He exploited his gullible and vulnerable Americans. He´s manipulated and lied so much to his supporters, they simply cannot face the fact that he lost and they were conned. They laugh at his rallies and don´t understand that a President should be more than an entertainer. He swears (childish), name calls (childish) and repugnantly makes jokes about people that are not 100% loyal to him all while his crowd applauds him. He´s stoked so much chaos, anger, racism and hate in Americans that the health and stability of our country is damaged irreparably. Why do you think Putin wanted him to win so much? Because he knew he was an who is star struck and submissive of dictators. If Trump is allowed to rule again, you can bet he will suppress free speech and anything not favorable to him. Say goodbye to free speech and freedom of the press.  He will spend years annihilating anyone who was not 100% loyal to him. Humiliation to a narcissist is like holy water to the devil. Trump will not be allowed power. Trump is a fascist. Trump will be imprisoned. Donald Trump and trumpism is the threat to democracy.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2023-12-12/trump-2024-election-dictator-day-one

Bogan

@John_C_87

Australia has no constitutional right to free speech in our constitution.     Because of that, leftist Federal governments, in order to buy the "ethnic vote" enacted The 2002 Racial Discrimination Act whos' sub clause 18c made it a criminal offense to "insult, offend, or humiliate" anybody because of their race and ethnicity.     This has been jokingly called "the hurt feelings act".    Free speech in Australia ends with the hurt feelings of of any self elected speaker of any ethnic group.     Naturally this Act does not apply to white people, whom ethnics can "insult, offend, and humiliate" to their hearts content.   As expected, all of our states followed suite with the similar legislation, although as expected, they got "mission creep."     Victoria's legislation included homosexuals, Muslims, and now transgender people as well.   Which means that their primary voting electorates are now immune from any sort of criticism.    The state of Victoria also aggressively sought to prosecute any Victorian for offending their primary voting base.  .   But since Victorians are generally tolerant people they had a lot of trouble finding anybody to prosecute.   

  This unhappy situation was solved when the state's Human Rights Organision got a tip off from an informer that a little Christian congregation in a small rural town was hosting a speaker who was going to give a speech explaining why the Islamic religion was evil.     The Human Rights Commission got hold of some of it's Muslim supporters and paid them to travel to the town specifically for the purpose of being "offended."     This they did, and the pastor and his church were successfully prosecuted.

In the state of Queensland, a situation arose which was even more bizarre.    In Queensland university, four students entered an unsignposted study room to study.     They were immediately confronted by the aboriginal mentor of the room, who angrily informed them that the room was for "aboriginal" students only, andwho told them that they should get out.   The students then went on social media and expressed very mild criticisms of their racist expulsion from a "blacks only" study room.     One student simply posted that Queensland University was fighting racism with racism, while another simply asked "I wonder where the "aboriginal only" water bubblers are?"

What the students did not know for almost a year, was that their very mild, funny, and innocuous Facebook posts was going to get them into a heap of trouble.    Dark Leftist forces were at work to teach the students a lesson.    Two weeks before their final exams, the students were told that they were being prosecuted by the Queensland Human Rights Association, ironically the same organisation which is supposed to protect free speech.    The complainant was the rooms aboriginal mentor, who claimed that the students had "offended" her, and who asked for $15,000 dollars from each student, to assuage her hurt feelings.  One student paid, but the other three chose to fight.     A court found in favour of the students, and the supporters of 18c claimed that this showed that the system worked.    But the problem is, nobody wants to get sued for innocuous remarks ,especially if they are students and are notified two weeks before their final exams (which I opine was a deliberate bit of bastardry)  The process was the punishment..   .      

Openminded

Argument Topic: A Treat for You

@Openminded @Bogan
Here´s a preview of what our next president will be working on for four years. Such a treat. And the crowd cheers!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyLzjMlOric/?fbclid=IwAR11obBlyQM4LOjAszP0j0b-boKGBJeHS4B38_BKzmX0O61Rzc6OoBWekn0

theinfectedmaster

Argument Topic: It's something to be concerned about.

I feel like we need to be concerned about rising authoritianism because if we don't, people could go to jail or get killed by the government over the smallest things.

Openminded

Argument Topic: And all jack can do to help corrupt and senile Biden is to imply that when Trump is re-elected he will become will be a dictator? Yeah, sure.

@Bogan
Still using immature and irrelevant adjectives to spice up your argument - just like trump. Trumpism is alive and well and has won you over.  Who gives a sh--t about Biden? We´re talking about Trump becoming a dictator.

Openminded

Argument Topic: I feel like we need to be concerned about rising authoritianism because if we don't, people could go to jail or get killed by the government over the smallest things.

@theinfectedmaster
I agree with you 100%. And I´ll raise you one. I think if Trump is elected, average American citizens who speak out will be jailed. The man is truly scary.

theinfectedmaster

@Openminded Yes. Trump is a fascist. I truly despise of the guy.

Openminded

Argument Topic: Yes. Trump is a fascist. I truly despise of the guy

He´s a sick narcissist who´s managed to stoke hatred, anger, paranoia and fear in his vulnerable supporters. Truly a horror.

MayCaesar

@Openminded

"Schizophrenia" is a real, medical, scientifically documented and thoroughly studied condition. "Trumpism" is not; it is a newspeak term that has no substance.

Openminded said:

Who gives a sh--t about Biden? We´re talking about Trump becoming a dictator.

Curious, not giving a sh--t about the current president, but worrying about someone who has a chance to become president in the future becoming a dictator. This is the point I made in another thread: politics to most people is just like sport. Like football. Fans talking rubbish during the game, then drinking a couple of beers and having a good time. Few people talking about politics actually care about it. It is all just a show.

I have never been a sports fan. Never supported any teams. Never supported any political candidates. I dislike Trump, but if he does something sensible, I will say that he did something sensible. If he does something terrible, I will say that he did something terrible. You do not strike me as a similarly impartial and honest kind of person, given how you are always picking on every single thing Republicans do, but when it comes to democrats - it is "who gives a sh--t". You are as loyal to your group as Trump fans are to theirs. And that means that you are as much of a danger to democracy as them, as you will forgive your group members for anything, just like they will forgive Trump for anything.

ZeusAres42

It's already here! Good luck with your right to bear arms USA bros:

Openminded

@MayCaesar

I support Biden. He´s worked for Americans. He´s decent. He´s inherited chaos. He´s done an incredible job and he´s a strong man. No double about it. I care deeply, believe me. But that was directed at a person who has seemingly adopted trumpism. Resorting to childish name calling to divert attention away from Trump´s crimes. Supporters promote Trump as they demonize his opponent to distract his supporters. That was my point. Trump supporters view him as their savior. But he´s only their entertaining quarterback. So yes, he´s their entertainer and delusion is their happy zone. Believe me, I care.

MayCaesar

@Openminded

You really believe these things about Biden? Despite all the economical indicators suggesting that his economical performance has been among the worst of all administrations in the history of the US? I am sorry, but to me this seems to be as much of a confusion as that of Trump supporters who purposefully ignore his endless lies and backflips.

The very first step towards being objective is applying the same (or, better, higher) standards to yourself as to others. I do not see that happening here. The guy you claim has "done an incredible job" most of the time seems to be confused about where he is and who he is, and this characterization seems quite similar to me to when people talk about Trump's "outsider's honesty".

ZeusAres42

@MayCaesar

Tbh, in my opinion, Trump and Biden should now be retired, playing Golf somewhere, perhaps even together

Bogan

@Openminded

Not worth responding to. 

 Try writing an entire 350 word article starting with a clearly stated premise that you are prepared to defend with a reasoned argument.     Writing sneery one liners or simply submitting curt replies dealing entirely in implications is hardly going to impress anybody into thinking you have an opinion worth reading.    Neither is, pejorative abuse, or just continually asking loaded Dorothy Dixer questions.     You may think that it makes you look authoritative, but it just makes you look like an ignorant person winging it to vainly defend a position he passionately holds, but has little knowledge of.

Openminded

Argument Topic: You do not strike me as a similarly impartial and honest kind of person, given how you are always picking on every single thing Republicans do

@MayCaesar
Simply not true. Trump created his own chaos and deserves to be criticized for it. Instead, he plays the victim, manipulates his supporters into believing everyone is after him unfairly. Stop with B-S. Trump has no morals. Trump is interested in only one thing. Power

Openminded

Argument Topic: You are as loyal to your group as Trump fans are to theirs. And that means that you are as much of a danger to democracy as them, as you will forgive your group members for anything, just like they will forgive Trump for anything.

@MayCaesar
This is not true. I´m worried about America. Trump has fascist tendencies and you know this but you don´t care. If you think I´m a danger to democracy and Trump isn´t then you´re  simply gaslighting. I would vote for ANY other republican. In fact, Go Nikki Haley. And if you´re paying attention, itś the republicans who are chaotic and pilfering off of American taxpayers. They can´t work amongst themselves as they´re so many factions within their own party. Yes Dems also with the progressives but they pale in comparison to the crazies in the republican party. Please answer me one question: Do you believe Trump will be a dictator if elected?

Openminded

Argument Topic: And all jack can do to help corrupt and senile Biden is to imply that when Trump is re-elected he will become will be a dictator? Yeah, sure.

@Bogan
This may surprise you, but there are Americans who care about more than money.
You little toady.

Openminded

Argument Topic: You are as loyal to your group as Tru

@MayCaesar
I´m done ¨debating¨ with toadies.

just_sayin

Authoritarianism should concern us regardless of whether it comes from the left or right.  On Thursday the Virginia Supreme Court reinstated a French teacher's case against a high school that had fired him over his refusal to use imaginary pronouns.  The schools demands are a great example of authoritarianism.  From an article

In his opinion, Virginia Supreme Court Justice D. Arthur Kelsey wrote that Vlaming’s rights were violated by the board and that his claim should go forward.
“Compelling an educator’s ‘speech or silence’ on such a divisive issue would cast ‘a pall of orthodoxy over the classroom’ on a topic that has ‘produced a passionate political and social debate,'” Kelsey wrote.
The opinion said the Virginia Constitution “seeks to protect diversity of thought, diversity of speech, diversity of religion, and diversity of opinions.”

The Virginia constitution has a clause in it that prohibits the government for forcing an employee to take positions on controversial issues.  

Whether it is extreme COVID laws, or compelled speech, or trying to force a baker to make a cake for a wedding that his faith says is not sanctioned by God, authoritarianism is alive and well in the US.  Whether it comes from the left or right it should be addressed.

Openminded

Argument Topic: Whether it is extreme COVID laws, or compelled speech, or trying to force a baker to make a cake for a wedding that his faith says is not sanctioned by God, authoritarianism is alive and well in the US. Whether it comes from the left or right it should be addressed.

@just_sayin
I agree with all of your comments. But the threat of dictatorship now is Trump. He is a danger.

just_sayin

Openminded said:

@just_sayin
I agree with all of your comments. But the threat of dictatorship now is Trump. He is a danger.

Trump did not force a teacher to use imaginary pronouns.  Trump did not demand that a baker violate his first amendment rights to bake a cake for an event which violates his faith.  Trump did not try to keep poor Black children chained to failed public schools and deny them educational freedom.  Trump does not support demanding that teacher's lie about a child showing signs of gender dysphoria.  Trump did not try to have parents removed from PTA meetings for speaking out against sexually explicit books being in a grade school library, Trump does not support people having to mandatorily participate in DEI training that says that you can know someone's oppressor/victim status, privileges, intentions, implicit biases, guilt, and fragility just by knowing their race.  It was not Trump who did not allow Jewish groups to have holiday celebrations at Harvard.  All of these examples of authoritarianism came from leftists.  

MayCaesar

Openminded said:

@MayCaesar
Simply not true. Trump created his own chaos and deserves to be criticized for it. Instead, he plays the victim, manipulates his supporters into believing everyone is after him unfairly. Stop with B-S. Trump has no morals. Trump is interested in only one thing. Power

Openminded said:

@MayCaesar
This is not true. I´m worried about America. Trump has fascist tendencies and you know this but you don´t care. If you think I´m a danger to democracy and Trump isn´t then you´re  simply gaslighting. I would vote for ANY other republican. In fact, Go Nikki Haley. And if you´re paying attention, itś the republicans who are chaotic and pilfering off of American taxpayers. They can´t work amongst themselves as they´re so many factions within their own party. Yes Dems also with the progressives but they pale in comparison to the crazies in the republican party. Please answer me one question: Do you believe Trump will be a dictator if elected?

Openminded said:

@MayCaesar
I´m done ¨debating¨ with toadies.

You sound like a robot programmed to repeat a few sentences along the party line. In fact, a very mediocre robot, for you do not provide any facts, just emotions and "you know this". A proper robot would cite nitpicked statistics in order to sound substantive. You cannot even accurately repeat what I said. Pitiful...

I think referencing "The Road to Serfdom" was a bit of an overkill on my part. The other party in this discussion is quite far away from absorbing the material of that level of complexity.

Openminded

I repeat. Do you think Trump will be a dictator if elected?@MayCaesar

Openminded

@just_sayin
Do you believe Biden is a dictator? Do you think trump will be a dictator?

John_C_87

ZeusAres42 said:

@MayCaesar

Tbh, in my opinion, Trump and Biden should now be retired, playing Golf somewhere, perhaps even together

It is my understanding they should both be correctly impeached multiple times... for some of the same conduct and for conduct specific to their own doings.

"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."

Article I | U.S. Constitution | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

"The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

U.S. Constitution - Article II | Resources | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

They are both unable to display the ability to serve the United States Constitutional Right as a common law between criminal legislation and constitutional right. Impeachment by American United States Constitution is an official relief of their command. The grievance at an Armed Services Court level is not the Public Criminal court system. The State and Federal Criminal Court systems are both part of the parties who are facing the grievance. An Inability to preserve United States Constitutional Right. It is the soldier’s life that is at greatest risk than the voters of the public. Is it not?

just_sayin

Openminded said:

@just_sayin
Do you believe Biden is a dictator? Do you think trump will be a dictator?

If one is a dictator for exercising power they do not have, then yes, Biden is a dictator.  The Supreme Court overruled his school loan scheme.  Biden called the Supreme Court 'dangerous' and attacked the legitimacy of its power.  Is that what dictators do?  If yes, then Biden has behaved as a dictator.  

If you think a US president is a dictator though, I think you need to go to some countries that have true dictatorships.  There is no recognition of legislative and judicial powers being co-equal with the presidency.  

No I do not think Trump will be a dictator.  I think he will try to use his power, as Biden has done.  I think sometimes the Supreme Court will have to overrule him, as it has done Biden.  I think people who think Trump is a dictator have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

MayCaesar

Openminded said:

I repeat. Do you think Trump will be a dictator if elected?@MayCaesar

You think that you can just ignore everything I said and repeat your question, after telling me that you are done debating with "toadies" - and get an answer? Cute. Show some respect for me, worm, if you want me to fulfil your requests.

Bogan

@Openminded

Do you believe Biden is a dictator? Do you think trump will be a dictator?

A "dictator" is a person who suppresses free speech, even knowing full well that free speech is constitutionally protected in the USA.   
A dictator is one who knowingly violates his countries constitution for political gain.
A dictator is a person who tries to jail his main political rival on 91 trumped charges to prevent him winning the next election.
A dictator is a person who creates a justice system which allows his family to engage in egregious corruption on an Olympic scale.. 
A dictator is one who uses his politically partisan police force to tap the phones and spy on anyone who may be considered a threat to his regime. 
A dictator is one who can sell out his own country to it's enemies and not be prosecuted by his own politically partisan police force

Six out of six for Biden.
.