Donald Trump claimed that the Civil War could have been 'negotiated'

just_sayin

jack said:

Hello:

Since the Civil War was about slavery, I'm wondering just how much slavery would Trump have allowed.  How about slavery between 8 AM and 8 PM?  What about slavery only on the weekends?  Maybe a little slavery in Mississippi would be ok.  

I dunno.  Do you?

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-claimed-that-the-civil-war-could-have-been-negotiated-2024-1

excon

It was the Democrats who supported slavery, not Republicans.  Have you ever known when you could logically negotiate with any Democrat?  Trump is delusional if he thinks that is possible.

John_C_87

@jack

Since the Civil War was about slavery, I'm wondering just how much slavery would Trump have allowed.  .  

Civil War was not about slavery it became about slavery. The war was about moving other major shipping ports to the south and creating one Federal Note to be used throughout America.  Are you saying that the Civil War was about Courts and Congress taking control of all slavery, adding it as a united states constitutional right for that is all the Civil War had achieved in relationship to slavery itself in America. Slavery the War did however end the States independent abilities to print their own money until the use of credit and debt had become too for lack of better word print money without the Federal Reserve Note protection's.

13th Amendment of the United States Constitution

Section 1.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, "except" as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

How about slavery between 8 AM and 8 PM?  What about slavery only on the weekends?  Maybe a little slavery in Mississippi would be ok.

The voters had made it a power of the Courts and Congress by ratifying the 13th amendment into the United States Constitution. Slavery had become the first Article to be written as a United States criminal law and place inside the structure of united states constitutional right. It should have been the first thing on a state of the union of the Kenedy administration in the relationship between the ideas of being at liberty and to hold something that is free. Jack, slavery was about house P.O.W.'s are to be held when placed in a connection to the United States Constitution. Much like how abortion becomes female specific amputation at a united states constitutional level. Slave is a word used to describe legislation of criminal law set around prisoners taken from battle and not criminal conviction.

jack

just_sayin said:

It was the Democrats who supported slavery, not Republicans. 

Hello just:

We can argue that another time.  My question remains.  No matter which party was in control, they went to war in support of slavery..  Trump said he could have negotiated our way out of war.  Since the war was about slavery, I'm wondering what he'd negotiate away.  SOME slavery SOMEWHERE??? 

Truly..  Answer that.

excon

John_C_87

@just_sayin

They are all republican and the bands that hold them separate from others can be dissolved, for any band that binds a state of the union can be the making of segregation. Democracy is an idea to help people remember candidates in the poles for voting nothing more. I get it slavery was ended by the civil war was probably on the first test most people took in school and got a 100 on. It was made into what is said to be a United States Constitutional right though ratified by the voters into the American Constitution is was never written as a right it is written as a criminal law. The state of the union in the 13th Amendment between established justice and slavery is imperfect.

jack

John_C_87 said:

@jack

Since the Civil War was about slavery, I'm wondering just how much slavery would Trump have allowed.  .  

Civil War was not about slavery it became about slavery.

Hello John:

Nahhh. 

In response to the election of Abraham Lincoln to the presidency of the United States on a political platform that opposed the expansion of slavery, South Carolina seceded from the Union on December 20, 1860. Six more states would follow in the ensuing months: Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. In February 1861, they formed the Confederate States of America, an entity considered illegal by the United States government. On April 12, 1861, Confederate forces attacked Fort Sumter, a Union fort in the harbor of Charleston, South Carolina. This began the first battle of the deadliest conflict in US history, the American Civil War. This primary source set uses documents, illustrations, and maps to explore events and ideas that drove the formation of the Confederate States of America and the United States’ descent into civil war.

https://dp.la/primary-source-sets/secession-of-the-southern-states

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

It was the Democrats who supported slavery, not Republicans. 

Hello just:

We can argue that another time.  My question remains.  No matter which party was in control, they went to war in support of slavery..  Trump said he could have negotiated our way out of war.  Since the war was about slavery, I'm wondering what he'd negotiate away.  SOME slavery SOMEWHERE??? 

Truly..  Answer that.

excon

Since there are an estimated 400,000 slaves in the US right now, it seems evident that slavery was not negotiated away.  See 

Over 400,000 people living in 'modern slavery' in US, report finds

While Chattel slavery of Blacks ended at the end of the civil war, sex slavery is thriving.  There are actually more slaves in the world today than at any other time in history.  This is why Democrats support for open borders, where many child sex slaves are brought across into the US every year, is so immoral.  Democrats should repent of their position and help end child sex slavery, rather than making it easier for it to happen.  Just sayin

MayCaesar

Trump's incoherent rabbling is pretty hard to translate into proper English, but in the presented words there is no suggestion that "the Civil War could have been negotiated". He specifically said this:

"I'm so attracted to seeing it. So many mistakes were made. See, there was something I think could have been negotiated, to be honest with you. All the people died, so many people died." - Donald Trump

And this view is almost universally agreed on by historians. President Buchanan is typically ranked at the bottom of the list of the US presidents precisely because he effectively "slept through" the beginning of the war, and instead of trying to reconcile the contradictions between the visions of the two groups, he let things deteriorate to the point of a full scale war.

It is what, Business Insider? A formerly highly reputable newspaper. It appears that the legacy media have fallen apart completely and at this point are surviving by dopamine-hitting their small audience of retired old people with sensationalist headlines. Give it a couple of decades, and they will die out, as they should.

John_C_87

@jack

Private commercial banks issued banknotes in the United States from 1781 up to 1935, with only occasional governmental and semi‐​governmental issues. Before the Civil War there were two federally chartered note‐​issuing banks, namely the first and second Banks of the United States (1791–1811 and 1816–36). Congress owned one‐​fifth of their initial share capital, but their notes were not obligations of the federal government. The governments of Kentucky and Vermont owned banks. Otherwise, all paper currency notes were the obligations of private institutions, even when state governments held minority shares.[1] Finally, during the Civil War, the federal government issued “greenbacks,” or United States Notes. These were not banknotes but legal‐​tender obligations of the U.S. Treasury, and they were not payable in gold (the nation’s metallic standard before and after the war) until 1879.

How U.S. Government Paper Currency Began, and How Private Banknotes Ended | Cato at Liberty Blog

Shortly after his inauguration, the Dred Scott decision was delivered, essentially stating that the federal government had no right to exclude slavery in the territories. Around this time, Buchanan also attempted to resolve the slavery dispute in Kansas, so that it could agree on a constitution and be admitted to the Union. Buchanan supported the pro-slavery Lecompton constitution, which passed the House but was blocked by the Senate and ultimately defeated.

By the end of Buchanan's presidency, the slavery issue threatened to tear the country apart. When Abraham Lincoln was elected president in 1860, the possibility that several states would secede was approaching likelihood. In his final address to Congress, Buchanan argued that while the states had no legal right to seceded, the federal government had no right to prevent them from doing so. Despite Buchanan's attempts to prevent it, on December 20, 1860, South Carolina became the first state to secede. By February 1861, six more states followed suit and the Confederate States of America was formed. When Buchanan left office on March 3, 1861, to retire to his estate outside of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, he left the nation on the brink of civil war.

James Buchanan - Presidency, Facts & Political Party (biography.com)

John_C_87

@just_sayin

The fact is that the civil War had been the cause that established slavery as a united Sates Amendment on Constitutional right. The 13th Amendment is not a United States Constitutional right itself it is a form of criminal legislation passed into the American Constitution by ratification. What can be agreed on is that slavery contributed to the growth of the ports of the South which had made them a risk to the southern united states form leaving the constitutional union. The idea slavery was a united states Constitutional right was only an arguing point made by lawyers who had been practicing law and not preserving American Constitution. What you can't find easy now is the documentation of who in the " North" was receiving profit from the slave trade taking place in the South. Please keep in mind we need Congresses approval to declare War and slavery is a product of war.

just_sayin

@John_C_87
Civil War was not about slavery it became about slavery. The war was about moving other major shipping ports to the south and creating one Federal Note to be used throughout America.

While there were several other causes for the civil war, about half of the southern states listed as their first reason to leave the union and join the confederacy slavery.  See

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states ;

Bogan

It seems funny how leftist people, who never stop banging on about ending all wars, for some reason go apoplectic when the man they have been culturally conditioned to hate, says that the US civil war, which cost the lives of 6000,000 Americans, could have been avoided through negotiation.     It is the usual leftist double standard.     Pretend to hold the moral high ground and be against war, then savagely attack anybody who claims that he might have avoided a war.  

Factfinder

@jack

Yest it could've and should've been negotiated. Especially since the civil war was not about slavery, rather the economics behind it. In other words: money. 

"In fact, it was the economics of slavery and political control of that system that was central to the conflict." https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/causes-of-the-civil-war/#:~:text=What led to the outbreak,key issue was states' rights.

Openminded

@just_sayin

More flimflam B_s. Stop. Stay on subject you gish galloper.

Openminded

@MayCaesar

More flimflam, hocus pocus gaslighting tactics.
Great job gish galloper

Openminded

@Bogan
Another round with Bogan in the boxing ring.
Hard to beat the gish galloper.
He throws B_S one liners, one right after another to keep people off guard.
Don´t bother debating with him - itś a waste of time.

Bogan

Closeminded quote      Another round with Bogan in the boxing ring.

I am still waiting for you to gather the courage to get back in the arena..  

John_C_87

@just_sayin

While there were several other causes for the civil war, about half of the southern states listed as their first reason to leave the union and join the confederacy slavery.  See

I have seen the information though I could not get the site you posted to open. While most of my own cites had been found to be unsecure as well. I am not arguing that racial discrimination was not rampant in the Southern states. What should be kept in mind however is that many of the people in the South had come from families that had been fighting War's in Africa on behalf of their nations of their heritage. along with serving with Genderal Robert E. Lee in the 1846 War with mexico. What did the other half of the state give as cause to file declaration of Independence?

Robert E. Lee (historynet.com)

Several states of the Deep South seceded in protest over the 1860 election of Abraham Lincoln as president, and the newly formed Southern Confederacy offered Lee the rank of brigadier general. He ignored that offer, but the bombardment of U.S. troops in Fort Sumter at Charleston, South Carolina, on April 12–14, 1861, placed him in a difficult position. His former commander, Winfield Scott, offered him command of the army of volunteers being raised to suppress the rebellion; that same day, Virginia voted in favor of secession. Lee did not support secession, but he would not fight against his native state. He resigned his officer’s commission, wrote Scott a personal message of thanks and regret, and became a major general of Virginia troops, commanding all military forces of the state.

13th Amendment | U.S. Constitution | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

" It is clear someting that is said to have ended can not have an exception and be added to the United States Constitution." I am like you I find it hard to believe anyone could lie in polotics before, during, and after the United States Civil War.

John_C_87

@Factfinder
Yest it could've and should've been negotiated. Especially since the civil war was not about slavery, rather the economics behind it. In other words: money. 
The real threat was the cotten gin and gold standard.

California - Exploration, Gold Rush, Statehood | Britannica

How Did The Us Get California ? - Answers (mapsofworld.com)

Bogan

"If I could keep the union together by freeing the slaves, I would do so.   If I could keep the union together by not freeing the slaves, i would do so."    Abraham Lincoln.

jack

just_sayin said:

Since there are an estimated 400,000 slaves in the US right now, it seems evident that slavery was not negotiated away.

Hello again, just:

Looks like you're saying slavery couldn't have been so bad if we haven't been able to "negotiate" it away.. Apparently, according to you, it NEVER went away, and it NEVER will.  Why?  Cause we LIKE it.

excon

Openminded

Argument Topic: "If I could keep the union together by freeing the slaves, I would do so. If I could keep the union together by not freeing the slaves, i would do so." Abraham Lincoln.

@Bogan

There is no record of Abraham Lincoln saying this. Please post proof since you used quotes and his name after the quote. Otherwise, if you just dropped it there to win - again shi%%y debate tactic.

While of course Lincoln was faced with a huge moral dilemma, he was faced with saving the union or abolishing slavery. In the end, he chose abolition of slavery as more crucial to saving the Union and ending the conflict. Hence, the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863.

I believe what we have here on this site with certain people is quite interesting.  Lots of trumpism going on here. I believe that there is a healthy amount of plain ´ol racism. But instead of admitting your racism, you deflect, gaslight and use trickery and gish gallop.

Now it appears you´re trying to whitewash the history of racism by 1) saying the Civil War was not JUST about racism and aggressively flipping the narrative 2) calling others racists to deflect 3) using shi%%y debate tactics to unsettle the opponent and 4) deflecting away from your racist tendencies.

But you keep defending and protecting your little boy, Donny. He´s your savior. Just pray.

Openminded

Argument Topic: Looks like you're saying slavery couldn't have been so bad ....

@jack

We´re debating with very unserious debaters who merely want to win or ¨own the libs¨.
I believe what they are doing is whitewashing slavery. Ya know, the ol Trumpism tactic. Don´t fall for it. 
Like Trump is a loser .... well ....

jack

Openminded said:

@Bogan

Gish gallop...  NAILED it.

Hello O:

Wow! You introduced me to a new word.  Very cool.  Does THIS sound like our friend, Bogan??

The Gish gallop is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality. The term was coined in 1994 by anthropologist Eugenie Scott, who named it after American creationist Duane Gish and argued that Gish used the technique frequently when challenging the scientific fact of evolution.[1]

Strategy

During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate.

For the longest time, Bogan said any debater who posted LESS than 350 words is AUTOMATICALLY disregarded.  Clearly, he's changed his tune.

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

Since there are an estimated 400,000 slaves in the US right now, it seems evident that slavery was not negotiated away.

Hello again, just:

Looks like you're saying slavery couldn't have been so bad if we haven't been able to "negotiate" it away.. Apparently, according to you, it NEVER went away, and it NEVER will.  Why?  Cause we LIKE it.

excon

I don't think the issue of child sex trafficking gets enough attention.  I wonder if the reason is that it points out how porous the border is and how lax the current administration is in committing border agents to actually monitor the border.  

Openminded

Argument Topic: @just_sayin

@just_sayin

Trumpism is alive and kicking! Yeeha! flimflam, hocus pocus, gaslighting, BUUUULLLLLLLLLSHEEEET.

I think Just_sayin, Bogan, MayCaesar should have their own debates don´t you? 
Sweet J E S _U_S. Yaĺl are pitiful.

Openminded

Argument Topic: @jack

@jack
Actually, it was Dreamer who introduced me to that.
Good one and a technique I see often now - like when you listen to Jim Jordan spout off B_S lines, one right after another without coming up for air. ahhahaha

Openminded

Argument Topic: @just_sayin

@just_sayin
BAM! And just like that the discussion about slavery turns into the porous border. GISH GALLOP!!

just_sayin

Openminded said:

@just_sayin
BAM! And just like that the discussion about slavery turns into the porous border. GISH GALLOP!!

Are you seriously denying that child sex slaves are being brought into the country over the border?  The U.S. Department of State estimates that 14,500 to 17,500 people are trafficked into the United States each year.  Seems like we should care about that - sorry that I value rescuing children from sex slavery instead of valuing protecting Democrat's policies on immigration.  

MayCaesar

Openminded said:

@just_sayin

Trumpism is alive and kicking! Yeeha! flimflam, hocus pocus, gaslighting, BUUUULLLLLLLLLSHEEEET.

I think Just_sayin, Bogan, MayCaesar should have their own debates don´t you? 
Sweet J E S _U_S. Yaĺl are pitiful.

I do not like or support Trump, hyena. I disagree with these two folks on virtually everything when it comes to Trump.

Do not pity me though. As Socrates would say, the small pain of being me is overshadowed by sheer horror of the idea of being you. If someone offered me a trillion dollars in exchange of becoming you for a year, I would say, "No thanks. Please send me to an ISIS prison camp for a year instead, and then give me the trillion".
Nothing is worse than being a person unable to think for themselves. No physical or emotional torment compares to that.

jack

Openminded said:

@jack

Actually, it was Dreamer who introduced me to that.

Hello again, O:

And, I turned Dreamer onto the Steve Bannon strategy of "flooding the zone", which is another word for gish gallop.

Ain't it cool when things work out like that?

excon

Bogan

@Openminded ;    There is no record of Abraham Lincoln saying this. Please post proof since you used quotes and his name after the quote. Otherwise, if you just dropped it there to win - again shi%%y debate tactic.

The quote comes from Ken Burn's excellent, three part series on the US civil war 'Ken Burn's The Civil War."    But I know you will not try and verify it because....
1.  You are frightened that I am right.
2.   You are ignorant of US history and prefer to stay that way.
3.  It does not fit your leftist narrative.
4.  The series is several hours long, and like most lefties, you have the attention span of a flea.  

John_C_87

@jack

Looks like you're saying slavery couldn't have been so bad if we haven't been able to "negotiate" it away.. Apparently, according to you, it NEVER went away, and it NEVER will.  Why?  Cause we LIKE it.
Slavery will never go away because it was made a United States Constitutional right by the same voters and people who had found it wrong. What had taken place after the civil war is slavery was made a united states constitutional right and became forever held as a outcome of criminal law in a court of law.

Exsecutive officer #16 sign a emancipation proclamation which is a liberty, a process of being set free from one form of justice to another. The 13th Amendment is simply a imperfect state of the union that like all others can be improved upon  . What had changed after the civil war was not the end of slavery but the end of Prisnors of war being held privately by the people.

Prisoner-of-War-Briefing-by-Paul-Chase.pdf (sar.org)