Federalization

jack

MichaelElpers said:

 Are there any issues that the left doesnt want to federalize on a national level?

Hello M:

Yeah..  I'd like to federalize the prison system, grade schools, abortion, the cops, and our elections.   I'd like to grant statehood to Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and Washington, D.C. which is "federalizing" them, no?

Is there anything that the right wants to privatize?

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

MichaelElpers said:

 Are there any issues that the left doesnt want to federalize on a national level?

Hello M:

Yeah..  I'd like to federalize the prison system, grade schools, abortion, the cops, and our elections. 

Is there anything that the right wants to privatize?

excon

The government is always less efficient than the private sector at providing goods and services.  UPS, Federal Express, and Amazon are much better at delivering packages than the US Postal Service.  The speed of the private companies is much quicker.  

I would argue that private grade schools are much better on average than public grade schools.  Just ask your federally elected officials, whose children all go to private schools in DC and not in the horrible public school system.  If public schools were that much better then government officials kids would be attending them.  In DC, there is a 25% increased chance that your child will finish high school and go on to college if they attended a voucher school.  There is literally a lottery in DC each year to fill open spots in the only federally funded private school voucher program.  It is emotional to watch a child be selected and see their family jumping for joy knowing that their child has been saved from having to go to a public school.  And then to see the tearful faces of families whose children didn't win the lottery and have to go back to bad public schools. 

The public schools get about $24,000 per child in DC, while voucher schools operate with about $9,000 - 12,000 (depends on if it is elementary or high school).  Yet, even though they work with less than half the money, they produce superior results.  

Even people as dumb as convicts know that private prisons are more cost effective.  Further, ANY criticism about a private prison is really a criticism of the government.  The only client of a private prison is the government.  The government wrote the contract the private prison operates under.  So any criticism about staff, accommodations, food, building condition, should be directed at the federal government who wrote the contract in such as way as to permit those conditions.  Private prisons prove the point that it is the government that is the one who is less effective at providing goods and services.  If the government could build and run prisons effectively, they wouldn't need private prisons. 

jack

just_sayin said:

The government is always less efficient than the private sector at providing goods and services.

Hello just:

I fundamentally DISAGREE with your entire post.  If the objective of government services was to save money, I'd agree..  But, there ARE government services, like the prisons and the police forces, that have different objectives than simply saving money.

excon

jack

But, there ARE government services, like the prisons and the police forces, that have different objectives than simply saving money.

Hello again, just:

Let's examine some stuff, shall we?  We have a Bill of Rights that tells the GOVERNMENT what it CAN'T do.  That is especially important to police forces, prisons and prisoners.. 

However, a private prison isn't constrained like the government is.  Consequently, they can abuse their wards willly nilly, and they DO!

If the Constitution ISN'T for the protection of prisoners, who the hell does it protect?

excon

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

The government is always less efficient than the private sector at providing goods and services.

Hello just:

I fundamentally DISAGREE with your entire post.  If the objective of government services was to save money, I'd agree..  But, there ARE government services, like the prisons and the police forces, that have different objectives than simply saving money.

excon

And has Amazon ever delivered a package to your door?  If so, know you are a hypocrite.  You could have demanded that it be sent through government mail and still be waiting for it to show up.

The fact private companies have different interests is why they are more efficient.  Unlike government businesses, private companies must ensure that their reputation and the quality of their product is good in order to continue existing.  Let's take a place Marxists love - Russia for example.  Russia controls its nuclear power plants and controls all property and its environmental condition.  Yet Russian lakes and rivers are notoriously contaminated.  Can you say Chernobyl?  That was a government run thing.  Governments are quick to inspect and demand change from private companies, but as Marxist countries like Cuba, Venezuela, China, North Korea, and Russia show us, government will often ignore its own businesses and give them a pass when they pollute or cut corners. Every year hundreds of buildings collapse in Cuba.  Ever asked why?  Its because Cuba's government is corrupt and it doesn't follow its own building laws.  As such, building collapses are common.  Maybe you would like to spend some time in a Cuban jail.  I wonder if you would feel safer there though.  

Here are some pictures of the accomodations of collapsed buildings in Cuba for you:

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/mar/13/the-cuban-collapse-photo-essay

And here is a picture of a Cuban prison.  Notice the quality construction:



Enjoy your stay, excon

just_sayin

jack said:

But, there ARE government services, like the prisons and the police forces, that have different objectives than simply saving money.

Hello again, just:

Let's examine some stuff, shall we?  We have a Bill of Rights that tells the GOVERNMENT what it CAN'T do.  That is especially important to police forces, prisons and prisoners.. 

However, a private prison isn't constrained like the government is.  Consequently, they can abuse their wards willly nilly, and they DO!

If the Constitution ISN'T for the protection of prisoners, who the hell does it protect?

excon

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that government writes the contract for private prisons.  If you think that private prisons 'abuse' prisoners and what they are doing is legal and not already against the law, then your beef is with the government, who wrote the contract defining the parameters that must be met.  Again, you are proving my point that government is inefficient.  

MichaelElpers

@jack

The crux of my question was more to do with whether you believe any issues belong to state or local governments. The issue I see is that the left not only wants government to have control of almost every issue but they want to enforce that on a national level.

But yeah there are plenty of things Id like to privatize or at the very least give an option.  For example, school choice. 

As far as what id like to leave to the states a lot of things.  Schooling, gun rights, abortion, roads, policing.

jack

just_sayin said:

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that government writes the contract for private prisons.

Hello just:

The Bill of rights tells the GOVERNMENT what it can't do..  A private prison is NOT the government, no matter what its contract says..

The Constitution prevents torture.  So, they built a prison in Cuba where the Constitution doesn't apply, and tortured willy nilly. 

excon

John_C_87

@just_sayin

The real issue with private prisons is the United States Constitution, 13th Amendment must be rewritten and ratified again with a corrected Amendment over the principle of slavery. This is unlikely to happen as the truth will need to be acknowledged by the people that slavery was never in fact abolished after the Civil War, leaving the question of why the lie.     

John_C_87

@jack
The Bill of rights tells the GOVERNMENT what it can't do.

The Preamble of the Constitution describes the goverment as we the people. Thus, the Bill of rights still tells the people what they can do to be right, or at least what the peple should atempt to hold as a state of the union to be right.

The Bill of rights tells the GOVERNMENT what it can't do..  A private prison is NOT the government, no matter what its contract says..

A person who is a citizen is not a commissioned officer in the Government. A person who is a citizen may not be an officer in the Government.  Any government consists of two basic categories, those who are doing the governing and those who are being governed over.

The Constitution prevents torture
No, Constitution does not prevent something law does not even prevent torture they both give means to govern how some one is or might be punished under controled conditions.

So, they built a prison in Cuba where the Constitution doesn't apply, and tortured willy nilly.

The American United States Constitution does not exist anywhere the people do not hold its principles including America. Guantanamo Bay is a Naval base. It is also described as a naval prison or staging facility. This is going to be a long debate when we start going over the tactics of psychological warfare and spies as unidentified combatants in a combat zone. Many people do not understand  what at least many of the past Christian crusaders had understood the condition of combat that a uniform offsets.

just_sayin

jack said:

just_sayin said:

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that government writes the contract for private prisons.

Hello just:

The Bill of rights tells the GOVERNMENT what it can't do..  A private prison is NOT the government, no matter what its contract says..

The Constitution prevents torture.  So, they built a prison in Cuba where the Constitution doesn't apply, and tortured willy nilly. 

excon

Guantanamo and Santiago de Cuba are gorgeous areas with breath taking views.  And no worries - Cubans didn't build the prison there.  Think of it as the Club Med of torture prisons.  

There is nothing in the constitution that says the government can not enlist contractors to do the work, and that is what they have done.  I'm a contractor and have worked for a dozen different government agencies/departments.  Trust me, its a real thing.  

just_sayin

John_C_87 said:

@just_sayin

The real issue with private prisons is the United States Constitution, 13th Amendment must be rewritten and ratified again with a corrected Amendment over the principle of slavery. This is unlikely to happen as the truth will need to be acknowledged by the people that slavery was never in fact abolished after the Civil War, leaving the question of why the lie.     

Incarceration is not slavery.  People like @Jack may not like their experience there, but it is not the same thing.  

John_C_87

@just_sayin

Incarceration is not slavery.  People like @Jack may not like their experience there, but it is not the same thing.  

In accordance with the 13th Amendment, it is...slavery. No one likes their experience while incarcerated I have personaly interviewed enough people to have gathered that information for past inmates, and those on work release as a source. Prison guards do not even like their time incarcerated, and they are given much more civil liberty and are not by American Constitution right described as a judicially legal slave.

Historical Event: The Slave Trade Act of 1807 | COVE (covecollective.org)

The cause of harm in slavery as a United State of law both of criminal nature and nature of right had been treatment and racism of POW's. Again, in the construction of the Britain Slave Trade act of 1807 America had been excluded from Parliament in Representation after taxation. 1776 is the Year the America's signed the Declaration of Independence and only women and children had been left in the care of British criminal law. I could not find a secure link for the Slave trade act of 1807 but found no mention of reparations or all those as a United State who had suffered under Criminal laws of British slavery.