Does DEI training increase diversity?

all4actt

@just_sayin

DEI is not good for anyone.

The only thing an employer should have to worry about when hiring, promoting and wages is the quality of the employee. 

Judgement should be based whether they meet their qualifications and expectations, whatever they may be.

MayCaesar

I think that it does the exact opposite: it increases uniformity. Diversity means that different organizations have different goals, different standards, different employee populations - there can be a restaurant full of Japanese chefs next to a cafe run by a Thai family next to a theatre playing East-Asian dramas...

When every company strives to have the same proportional distribution of the same population subgroups, same treatment of employees of all backgrounds, same hiring procedures - then diversity is non-existent.

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

I think that it does the exact opposite: it increases uniformity. Diversity means that different organizations have different goals, different standards, different employee populations - there can be a restaurant full of Japanese chefs next to a cafe run by a Thai family next to a theatre playing East-Asian dramas...

When every company strives to have the same proportional distribution of the same population subgroups, same treatment of employees of all backgrounds, same hiring procedures - then diversity is non-existent.

Each year the government mandates a series of trainings we have to do.  One is a sexual harassment video with about a dozen different scenarios.  I loathe it because in every single scenario it is the white guy who is the one who is sexually harassing someone.  I always wonder why they could not have a scenario where the dwarf in the wheelchair or the heavyset transgender woman are the sexual aggressors.  This just comes across as labeling white guys as the sexual perverts to me.  Which is my real beef - there is a lot of subtle and not so subtle attacks on white men in the various trainings.  I can't imagine that the trainings would have been approved if the sexual pervert in all the scenarios was Black.

This past weekend the FAA announced an initiative to intentionally hire more people with severe disabilities.  

“Targeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring,” the FAA’s website states. “They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism.” - IOTW

While I don't want someone disqualified for having a disability from getting a job, I do not want someone placed in a job just because they have a disability either.  I don't want a blind air traffic controller, or someone with a severe intellectual disability trying to land an airplane.  You would think that these are just common sense, but it is my experience that common sense is not that common in the government, and that political agendas are much more important to them.  

MayCaesar

@just_sayin

I had to go through a similar set of trainings when doing research for the federal government. There was one scenario in which a black guy ended up trying to break into his friend's car because he asked him to do so (many of these scenarios are not exactly realistic), and a white lady saw him doing that and called the police - and the narrator explained that clearly this lady was racist and only called the cops because the guy was black... As if someone trying to break into a car is not suspicious in itself.

In another scenario an elderly male patient was serviced by a young female nurse, and he made a funny joke at her expense - and she ended up having a horrible depression and have to talk to her boss, a couple of colleagues and a councilor to deal with it and to explain to the man that this kind of jokes is inappropriate... The message seems to be that everyone must walk on eggshells, and one slightly politically incorrect joke that can hurt a person without a sense of humor and with a very sensitive heart is nearly a crime.

Basically, they are trying to get everyone in line, to have everyone behave the exact same way, have and express the exact same views, and constantly second-guess themselves and think about every subtle way in which they do not serve the Great Cause.

Bogan

I think that the best example of how ideologs can completely ruin a functioning organisation comes from Communist China.     During Mao's Cultural revolution, Chinese ideologs with mindsets identical to today's young leftists, claim that any display of rank in the armed forces was displaying inequality.      All vestiges of rank were removed from PLA uniforms.      This occurred at the same time as China went to war with Vietnam.    This war was fought because China objected to VIetnam invading (or "liberating"} Cambodia from the crazy Khmer Rouge.  It was also for Vietnam ethnically cleansing large numbers of Chinese people from Vietnam.     One point being displayed there, was that Asians are very racist and they see nothing wrong with "undiversifying" their own countries in order to expel people that they see as a probable threat to their social stability and security.

It was this apparently leaderless rabble that invaded the north of Vietnam and got promptly almost shot out of existence by the experienced and conventionally organized Vietnamese Army.

DEI is exactly like the idea that army rank badges denote class division.      It is the sort of id-iotic idea which places a purely idealistic position above any other consideration.  And, it is pushed by the same du-mbasses with the same Red Guard absolutist mindsets.     It is based upon an almost universally accepted principle that all races are equal, which just happens to be wrong.      Because of that, what we are seeing in western society today is the elevation of people who neither have the brains or the experience to handle the leadership positions that they have been entrusted with.

A few diversity hires come to mind.     Karine Jean Pierre, the White House spokeswoman, is obviously right out of her depth and she routinely has to stop press conferences because she can not go on.      One presumes that Pierre was only hired because she ticked the diversity box.    She was female, black, and a lesbian, and that was all that mattered.         Next comes that sterling example of academic excellence, Harvard President Claudine Gay.    It is clear that Gay, who was hardly an academic at all, was chosen solely because she was black and female.   The word "gay" in her name probably helped a lot too.    To pick such a low IQ person to be the Dean of one of the world's leading universities, is as stu-pid as removing rank badge from army uniforms.      Lastly, comes the behaviour of diversity hire Lloyd Austin, the US defense chief, who did not think that it might have been important to tell somebody that he was going off to hospital to have surgery.     

Since races are not equal, then in order for employers to tick diversity boxes, they are really going to have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find people from certain ethnicities who could even possibly handle complex jobs.     In my own country of Australia, all that a purely white person had to do to get a professorship in a university was to claim that he was aboriginal.       The white man was a high school science class teacher with no aboriginal heritage in his ancestry at all.  But since the university could not find any aboriginal academics, they simply accepted his claim without even bothering to check it.    All that was required was to tick the government mandated DEI diversity box.    

just_sayin

@Bogan
It is based upon an almost universally accepted principle that all races are equal, which just happens to be wrong. 

I guess I would ask how do you mean 'equal'.  Do people have equal standing under the law?  Then yes they are equal.  Are most people of any race capable of intellectual thought?  Then I would say they are.  Do you mean do racial groups demonstrate equal achievement?  Well, no.  Ancient Egypt demonstrated a lot of innovations that Europeans weren't able to match at that time.  Ancient Chinese dynasties invented a lot of things, like iron, long before Europeans used them.  Egyptians dominated at one point and enslaved lots of middle easterners.  However, over time, we see that as the environment changes, who is dominate changes.  

A few diversity hires come to mind.     Karine Jean Pierre, ...Harvard President Claudine Gay. ...Lloyd Austin, the US defense chief, 

I agree with you on Pierre.  She does not come across as competent.  Gay probably has the credentials to be president of Harvard.  I don't think they did a good enough background check and I do believe that they protected her because she was a Black female, when they would not have done so if she were a white male.  Austin is an odd situation.  He came up through the ranks, so he he must have some skills, and isn't just a social promotion. I don't understand hiding a cancer surgery though.  I wonder if it is some military thing.  

Since races are not equal, then in order for employers to tick diversity boxes, they are really going to have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find people from certain ethnicities who could even possibly handle complex jobs. 

I think SJWs are pretty dumb on this.  For example companies like Google and Facebook have less than 5 percent of Blacks in STEM positions and have devoted hundreds of millions of dollars to reaching that goal.  They have entire DEI departments devoted to this.  I think it is silly when someone says these companies are discriminating against Black candidates.  These companies are desperate to virtue signal that they hired a Black person and would give their left testicle to achieve this.  However, these companies can't afford to hire those who are not able to produce the results they need.  Now you Bogie would claim that Blacks are mentally inferior, I would point out that you won't get many high quality STEM candidates because only about 6 percent of Blacks students scored proficient in math and science.  Not going to get a lot of STEM scholars with high school results like that.  I've mentioned that there are some environmental factors that will need to be honestly addressed if we want to see more Black achievement - such as addressing the impact of a single parent home on a child's success rate and the fact that 50% of urban schools don't even offer the AP classes needed to get into STEM degree programs.  But SJWs and people like you Bogie, just want to yell racism, and don't want to admit other factors can inhibit success.  

Bogan

Just-sayin quote   I guess I would ask how do you mean 'equal'.

  Haha.     I had a debate with MayCaesar a couple of years ago, and he agreed that races were not equal in physical abilities, then he clammed up and refused to discuss intelligence and personality.     That is why I don’t like MayCaesar.     He wanted me to prove that races were not equal, but refused to provide any proof that races were equal.        You can’t debate against slimy dishonest bastards like that.

 

Just-sayin quote       Do people have equal standing under the law?  Then yes they are equal.  Are most people of any race capable of intellectual thought?  Then I would say they are.  Do you mean do racial groups demonstrate equal achievement?  Well, no.  Ancient Egypt demonstrated a lot of innovations that Europeans weren't able to match at that time.  Ancient Chinese dynasties invented a lot of things, like iron, long before Europeans used them.  Egyptians dominated at one point and enslaved lots of middle easterners.  However, over time, we see that as the environment changes, who is dominate changes.  

 That is a nice red herring, but it does not prove that races are equal.     Races are not equal, and it is quite easy to prove it.   But one thing I have learned on debate sites, is that it is impossible to prove anything to an opponent who just does not want to know.

Just-sayin quote      I think SJWs are pretty dumb on this.  For example companies like Google and Facebook have less than 5 percent of Blacks in STEM positions and have devoted hundreds of millions of dollars to reaching that goal. 

And I will bet that they had to scrape the barrel to get even 5%.      Computer algorithms require advanced maths, and Mathematics courses in universities are so devoid of African students that some dimwit SJW claimed that mathematics itself was racist.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbpzOw1JPsM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhelfB2SQTo

 

Just sayin quote  They have entire DEI departments devoted to this.  I think it is silly when someone says these companies are discriminating against Black candidates.  These companies are desperate to virtue signal that they hired a Black person and would give their left testicle to achieve this.  However, these companies can't afford to hire those who are not able to produce the results they need. 

 

Rich companies probably can afford it.      But it is the area of government jobs which is the real problem.      Once a liberal government accepts the validity of DEI, you can bet that they will go all in to make up their racial quotas.     I was interested to see just how many black guys were in a West Point graduation ceremony.      If the military is picking officer candidates just to tick diversity boxes, then the USA will be just like the politically correct Chinese PLA, who claimed that badges of rank were inequality.   Like the Chinese, you are going to lose your next war.     Could I add another aspect here?     One reason why the euros rocketed ahead of the rest of the world was because they never stopped fighting each other.    And in war, the consequences of losing a war can be so catastrophic that it forces Kings, Emperors, politicians, and generals to think straight.

As a student of history, could I say that for 200 years, the British Army managed to lose almost every battle that they were involved in.     They had their own version of political correctness, which was that only the aristocracy could be officers.    That some of these officers were complete dimwits was the cause of every British Army catastrophe.        German general Ludendorff said, “the British soldier fights like a lion, but is led by donkeys.”   If the US armed forces are now picking their officers using racial quotas, then let’s hope that China does not invade Taiwan.     Lloyd Austin’s performance as Commander in Chief looks like a portent of things to come. 

 

Just-sayin quote     Now you Bogie would claim that Blacks are mentally inferior, I would point out that you won't get many high quality STEM candidates because only about 6 percent of Blacks students scored proficient in math and science. 

Okay, here we go again.   

1.    IQ is measurable and accurate.

2.    There exists a roughly 15 point IQ difference between white Americans and Black Americans.

3.    Collective IQ can increase over generations, but it is provably impossible to turn a low IQ person into a Mozart or a Newton, just with increased education and a better diet.     People have very low, low, average, high, and gifted IQ.    And just like the most beautiful girls, they are born that way.

4.  The usual excuses to explain away black dysfunction are invalid for two of reasons.

a.    The same excuses do not apply equally to Asians.

b.    The same dysfunctional ethnicities are dysfunctional in every country they reside in, including their own homelands.

 

 Just-sayin quote   Not going to get a lot of STEM scholars with high school results like that.  I've mentioned that there are some environmental factors that will need to be honestly addressed if we want to see more Black achievement - such as addressing the impact of a single parent home on a child's success rate and the fact that 50% of urban schools don't even offer the AP classes needed to get into STEM degree programs.  But SJWs and people like you Bogie, just want to yell racism, and don't want to admit other factors can inhibit success.  

You are in complete denial about reality.      You are performing all sorts of mental gymnastics trying to explain away something which is really quite simple to understand.    But you just do not want to understand it.    DEI is morally supportable because it is based upon the idea that all races are equal, an idea which you support.      Therefore, if there are not equal proportions of blacks to whites in every trade and profession, then this proves beyond a reasonable doubt that white society is somehow holding back African people.    And if black people are very disproportionally represented in incarceration rates, then this proves that the white justice system is unjust to African people.

 You can not have it both ways.     You can not condemn DEI, if you agree with the basic premise which logically justifies it.

just_sayin

@Bogan
That is why I don’t like MayCaesar. 

I like @MayCaesar.  I don't think his extreme belief in scientism makes sense, but overall I think he is a rational person and not difficult to get along with.   

Races are not equal, and it is quite easy to prove it.   But one thing I have learned on debate sites, is that it is impossible to prove anything to an opponent who just does not want to know.

I wouldn't know anything about that.  Everyone I engage with is always so rational.  Especially those I talk to about racial issues  Especially Australians.  They never ever make wild leaps of logic

4.  The usual excuses to explain away black dysfunction are invalid for two of reasons.

a.    The same excuses do not apply equally to Asians.

Bogie,  your accusations don't even apply to Black subgroups.  For instance, in the US, Black Caribbeans have higher average salaries than US whites.   If I were to believe they were dumber, it would be hard for me to rationalize how they got higher paying jobs.  The reality is that Black Caribbean people have a much stronger family network than other racial group that come to the US, and as a result, they have higher educations and obtain higher paying jobs.  Are you going to say that Black Carribeans genes are the sole reason for their success in the US?   That doesn't make sense to me.

DEI is morally supportable because it is based upon the idea that all races are equal, an idea which you support.      Therefore, if there are not equal proportions of blacks to whites in every trade and profession, then this proves beyond a reasonable doubt that white society is somehow holding back African people. 

, All races are equal in that they are part of the human race.  Identical twins will not have equal outcomes.  One may have a higher paying job than the other, one may get a disease the other one doesn't.  One may be in a car accident that leaves them paralyzed.  If you can't prove equal outcomes for identical twins, then there is no reason to believe equal outcomes will happen between races.  And I repeat myself again - different outcomes do not necessarily come from racism.  They can come from different choices, chance, the environmental factors, or even chromosomes - like if someone has downs syndrome.  What you and SJWs are doing, is ignoring that there are lots of factors involved, and you only consider race as the cause.  As a result, both of your views, are unhelpful in helping people make positive changes in their lives.  When you tell someone that all their problems are because of their race or because of racism, you make them a permanent victim, and deny them the agency they have to make changes.  

Bogan

@just_sayin

Just-sayin quote       I like @MayCaesar.  I don't think his extreme belief in scientism makes sense, but overall I think he is a rational person and not difficult to get along with. 

 The dirty debating tactic of “you must prove everything you say, I need not prove mine” is the tactic of a calculating cheat who knows what he is doing is wrong, but does it anyway.     Such people are worse than hecklers, because unlike hecklers, they have brains, but prefer to use their intelligence to be deceitful.     I think MayCaesar is probably a colonel in the KGB Disinformation Department. 

Just-sayin quote     Bogie,  your accusations don't even apply to Black subgroups.  For instance, in the US, Black Caribbeans have higher average salaries than US whites.   If I were to believe they were dumber, it would be hard for me to rationalize how they got higher paying jobs.  The reality is that Black Caribbean people have a much stronger family network than other racial group that come to the US, and as a result, they have higher educations and obtain higher paying jobs.  Are you going to say that Black Carribeans genes are the sole reason for their success in the US?   That doesn't make sense to me.

Just like Thomas Sowell’s claim that black children raised by white parents have higher IQ’s (which if true, proves that IQ is measurable) you are making a claim I have never heard of before.     But even among black “races”, some are definitely smarter than others, with west coast Africans being smarter than east coast Africans.      As mentioned to you earlier, although Australia’s socialist Labor Party is the anti racist party, even the Laborites had to tacitly admit (they would never do so publicly) that African blacks from Sudan, Somalia, and Eritrea were just plain du-mb and psychopathically violent people.   Labor agreed with the conservative opposition that people from these countries should no longer be allowed to immigrate into Australia, “because of the difficulties in integrating people from these areas.”      Measured IQ differences for Sudanese, Eritreans, and Somalis against whites is not 15 points, it is more like 25 points.     This very week, Australians have been shocked at seeing video images of Somalis and Sudanese going to war with each other’s tribes on the streets of Melbourne and Adelaide, armed with machetes and guns.      Australians have never seen such behaviour before from any other ethnic groups.

 So, even within black races themselves, we see the same pattern of dysfunction geared to IQ.      It all depends upon from what part of Africa a person originated from, as to how smart, or even how violent they are.      Secondly, prior to boatloads of Africans crossing the English Channel in inflatables, all of Britain’s black immigrants came from the Caribbean, namely British colonial possessions such as Trinidad and Jamaica.      Once again, we see the same pattern of dysfunction we see in every other western country into which black Africans have immigrated into.  The same very high rates of welfare dependency, and the very same high rates of criminal behaviour and incarceration.   And we see the same pattern of behaviour from immigrant Asians in every western country, who have no trouble at all integrating and getting ahead in those societies.     The problem with denouncing racism, is that it only works with people who have little to no contact with dysfunctional races.      Western people are getting more racist, and it is the unacceptable behaviour of the imported dysfunctional races within western societies which is causing that.

 Just-sayin quote        All races are equal in that they are part of the human race.

 Kodiak Bears and Grizzley Bears are all part of the Brown Bear species.     But they are so different in appearance and behaviour that we recognise their differences by giving them different names.    Genetics works in exactly the same way with humans as it does with Brown Bears.     Some dog breeds are so violent that according to Australians laws, they must be effectively fenced and muzzled in public.    Laughingly, supporters of these breeds have accused state and federal governments of “canine racism.”

 

Just-sayin quote      Identical twins will not have equal outcomes.     One may have a higher paying job than the other, one may get a disease the other one doesn't.  One may be in a car accident that leaves them paralyzed.  If you can't prove equal outcomes for identical twins, then there is no reason to believe equal outcomes will happen between races.    

The TWA (Twins Reared Apart) investigation does not agree with you.     Separated twins and triplets, who were separated at birth, and who never even knew that they had a sibling, were found to usually have the same tastes in sport and clothing, and even the same hairstyles.     Researchers opined that whatever differences which were apparent was explainable by different parenting methods.   For example, adopted children were more susceptible to criminal behaviour than non adopted children, for reasons that I have explained previously.    But if one twin became criminal, then the chances of the second twin becoming criminal, although statistically significant, was not always the case.       Just because one twin became criminal, did not mean that the second twin automatically became criminal.     Researchers concluded that good parenting can keep a child who is genetically prone to violent criminal behaviour, on the straight and narrow.

 Could I also throw in another fact?    I have read anti racist Paul Breggin’s book “The War Against Children.”        The best thing about reading the oppositions own writings is, that, since they think that they are writing to their own supporters, they often let slip facts in “private” which they would never admit in public.     Breggin bragged that the NAACP had successfully lobbied the US Congress to stop any research money going to any scientist who investigated any links between genetics and crime.     The first significant aspect of that is, that any organisation who tries to intimidate and scientists is intellectually bankrupt.      The second is, that black leaders themselves know that their races are genetically prone to criminal behaviour.    But since that does not fit their “all races are equal” narrative, (which you support) then they have to suppress that information at all costs.      Admitting that their races are different from others, which explains why they are always dysfunctional, would destroy their profitable grievance industry.

 

Just-sayin quote       And I repeat myself again - different outcomes do not necessarily come from racism.    They can come from different choices, chance, the environmental factors, or even chromosomes - like if someone has downs syndrome 

 As I said earlier, if it is chromosomes, it is genetic.   A person’s personality is a product of both nature (genetics) and nurture (proper socialization).   Genetics provides the fundamental underlying character, and nurture builds upon that blueprint.  

 

Just-sayin quote       What you and SJWs are doing, is ignoring that there are lots of factors involved, and you only consider race as the cause. 

No, a person’s personality is a factor of both nature and nurture.    But it just happens to be a provable premise that some races have higher IQ’s than others.      It is also a provable premise that there is a genetic link with genetics and violent behaviour.     That does not mean that all black Africans are du-mb and violent.    It just means that sadly, most of them are.    Human races are different, with different proportions of people who are smart and du-mb, and different proportions of people prone to violence and criminal behaviour.

 

Just-sayin quote       As a result, both of your views, are unhelpful in helping people make positive changes in their lives. 

“Let the truth be told, though the heavens may fall.”   White people are not as smart as Asian or Jewish people.     That just happens to be a sad fact of life.      But you do not hear white people complaining that Asians and Jews must be doing something insidious to get head at university and in professions.     Nor demanding racial quotas for whites in everything from university admissions to plum government jobs. 

 

Just-sayin quote        When you tell someone that all their problems are because of their race or because of racism, you make them a permanent victim, and deny them the agency they have to make changes.  

 Instead, people like you tell them that all races are equal.     So, the charlatan leaders of these dysfunctional races (who obviously know better)  run with that and create a narrative where, based upon this accepted “fact”, they can use statistics to “prove” that the only reason why their race is dysfunctional, must be because white western society is intrinsically racist.     Unless all astronauts, brain surgeons, generals, admirals, fighter pilots, and incarcerated criminals have exactly the same proportion of ethnicities that exist in real life, then something is intrinsically wrong with white, western society.      And, I would point out, that the present wave of anti western sentiments being expressed in universities today, has it’s roots in that crazy belief.      You are complicit in the destruction of your own civilisation because you stubbornly hold to your humanitarian beliefs, and deny self-evident reality.

 One reason why western society rocketed ahead of all others, was because we held that objective truth was more important than ideology.    Sadly, we are no longer thinking that way, and you are proof of that.