Why is Jesus Christ the only Way to life in Eternity? John 14:6

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Not Quite

@RickeyHoltsclaw

As a Jew with a different perspective, I would respectfully offer several counterpoints to the statement that Jesus is the only way to the Father and eternal life:

1. Universality of God's Grace: Jewish tradition emphasizes the universal accessibility of God's grace and covenant. The Hebrew Bible teaches that God established a special relationship with the Jewish people, but it also affirms God's universal concern for all humanity. We believe that anyone who sincerely seeks truth and righteousness, regardless of their religious affiliation, can find favor with God.

2. Richness of Jewish Paths: Judaism offers diverse paths to spiritual fulfillment and connection with God. Through Torah study, prayer, observance of mitzvot (commandments), and acts of loving-kindness, Jews strive to live lives of holiness and purpose. We believe these paths lead us closer to God, even if they differ from the Christian understanding of Jesus as the sole mediator.

3. Prophetic Continuity: While Christians see Jesus as the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy, we interpret these prophecies differently. We believe the messiah will be a righteous leader who restores peace and justice to the world, not necessarily a divine figure. Our focus remains on fulfilling our role as guardians of God's law and ethical teachings, which we believe will ultimately contribute to the messianic era.

4. Interfaith Dialogue and Respect: While we hold our own beliefs dear, we value respectful dialogue and understanding with people of other faiths. We believe that appreciating the diverse ways humans seek spiritual connection can enrich our own faith and foster a more harmonious world.

Therefore, while I acknowledge the importance of Jesus for Christians, I cannot subscribe to the notion that he is the exclusive path to God or eternal life. Our rich traditions offer us distinct yet fulfilling ways to connect with the divine, and I believe mutual respect and understanding are crucial in navigating the complexities of interfaith dialogue.

Instead of viewing our religions as mutually exclusive, perhaps we can focus on the shared values of compassion, justice, and love for God and humanity. This spirit of understanding and coexistence can pave the way for a more peaceful and meaningful world for all.

This is a debate site.  So debate.  Don't preach.

Bogan

The Father is an entity.   The Son is an entity.   A father can not be his son, and his son can not be his father.   1+1 equals 2.       The Christians have 2 Gods,   Toss in The Devil, and that makes 3.

Now you know one good reason why I gave up on religion.       In the same way that the Leftist religion requires people to accept that a biological male can be female, and a biological female can be male, all you need to do to BELIEVE is to ignore objective reality.  

MayCaesar

The joke is on you: I have slept with the Satan, and, let me tell you, she is much better in bed for a heterosexual like me than a bearded prophet. And hotter too... literally.

As someone said, "Hell is where the party's at". Sign me up!

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No doubt the verses you pasted make the claims you assert they do. However this is a debate site and there is no evidence anyone has eternal life.

Barnardot

@RickeyHoltsclaw @MayCaeser @Bogan @JukesKorngolf Well as is usually the case what ever bot you are all your doing is opening an account to pump out a heap of preaching crap with no regard as to other people’s ideas and you never will respond to the people on this page who got sucked in to your bot games by thinking that you’re a reel person. 

Which is under standable since the members on this page in the order I put them. The first has mood swings and doesn’t know Arther from Martha and the second has only half a brain and the third is so sower he refuses to talk about any thing that might possibly intrude on his delicate girly mind.

So okay you got them good and proper because the one thing they have in common is they can’t think out side the little square there stuck in. So on be half of every one here you can tell your bot pimp go take a walk and drop off the end of the world.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Barnardot ; Hello Barnadot, what if the Canon of Scripture is true and Jesus is Messiah and those who deny Him as Messiah perish in Hell due to their sin and rejection of the forgiveness offered freely by faith in Jesus? What will you do and what will you say at Judgment?

Why so much animosity toward Jesus and Christianity?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Jesus said that those who believe in Him have eternal life...do you believe this?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; Satan is spirit, you might ingratiate yourself with him through a rejection of Jesus as your Messiah and a compromise with this dying World and your obedience to him as your father, but intercourse is not possible though you may have entered into aberrant sexual conduct with someone who is the devil's relative in spirit. Jesus did say, "You will know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20) and the words spoken flow from what is in a person's heart (Luke 6:45).

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Jesus said that those who believe in Him have eternal life...do you believe this?

I know that's what the bible says. But there's nothing to back it up. I do know that despite claims saying salvation is a free gift from christ, biblically it's not free. In fact it's coercion. Believe in me or else. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; That's where "faith" comes into play...a decision, in the affirmative, to believe that the Canon of Scripture was provided you by our omnipotent, omniscient, Creator, so that you can know Him personally; love Him intimately; live with Him eternally. It is a choice of the "free will" infused within your human genome on Day-6 of Creation to choose to believe and trust in Jesus as your Messiah.

Factfinder

Freewill is an illusion. @RickeyHoltsclaw

If god created you including your brain and it's abilities, lives outside of time, is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, therefore knows with the same presences of mind past, present, and future; then billions of years ago he created beings he'd claim to love yet had no chance of escaping hell. Because god knew the brains he created and programed them with would never buy into what their brains can only see as fantasy. I f you can not avert what god knows ahead of time, you have no freewill.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@JulesKorngold

1) Universalism is not a tenet or precept of the Scriptures; this is relevant for Jew, Israelite, Gentile. Anyone who rejects Jesus as Messiah will NOT enter the Kingdom of Elohim due to the problem of sin, impurity, that cannot enter the Kingdom (John 14:6; Revelation 21:27).

2) Torah does not provide life in Eternity but provides only a roadmap to Eternal Life through Yeshua (Galatians 3:24). Law-Sinai-Moses only define one's culpability before Elohim but they're absent any form of substantive atonement (Romans 3:20-21; Galatians 2:16) which is clearly articulated in Leviticus 17:11 and first demonstrated for you in Genesis 3:21; that is, it is only by the innocent, sinless, shed blood of Messiah Yeshua at Golgotha, blood atonement for sin, that a man or woman is provided a Path to life with the Father; this, through faith-belief that Yeshua is Messiah who died for you (John 3; Acts 4:12; 1 Peter 1:18-19).

3) It is this error of the Jewish leadership that led to the murder of Messiah by the Jewish Council via a conspiracy of blasphemy and alliance with Roman leadership to murder Messiah upon a tree while demanding that Messiah's blood be upon the children of Israel and their posterity (Matthew 27:25; John 18:36). The Jewish leadership and many of the Jews observing the works of Yeshua during His Earthly ministry thought Him to be a liberator of Israel, a political intercessor and not a divine Intercessor between humanity and Elohim (Acts 1:6). 

Yeshua came specifically to Jacob's children to proselytize them in the Gospel of Peace (Matthew 15:24) and ready them as ministers of the Great Commission in fulfillment of Elohim's promise to Abraham (Genesis 12:3b) but Jacob's children rejected their Messiah which consequently led to the ordination of the Gentile as the ministers of the Gospel and the Great Commission (Romans 11:25; Acts 13:46). For this reason, only a "remnant" of Israel's children will escape the "second death" in Hell due their unbelief (Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27; Revelation 20:11-15) and this remnant will be primarily comprised of those who are proselytized by the 144,000 Jewish witnesses as noted in Revelation 7 during the Tribulation Era.

4) Your thoughtful and well-written rebuttal is much appreciated but as a disciple of Yeshua who loves Him beyond human understanding I must tell you, Jesus is the ONLY WAY to life in the Kingdom (John 14:6) and your Jewishness or your standing as a child of Jacob will not provide you life but you must humble yourself before Elohim and repent of your sin, believe-trust in Yeshua as Messiah who died for you in order to initiate New Covenant relationship with Elohim and discover peace and life through the Holy Spirit as He walks you in daily sanctification preparing you for service in the New Jerusalem (John 3; Romans 10:9-10; Galatians 5:16-23; John 14:6; Acts 4:12).  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; The omniscience of our Creator does not negate the necessity for free will as it pertains to both the angelic and human creation. Our Creator is defined by the divine attribute of "love" (1 John 4:7-8) and in order for love to exist in an atmosphere of purity, authenticity, legitimacy, sustainability, reciprocal enjoyment and pleasure in intimacy, both parties in that "relationship" must possess volition, the ability to choose to engage in that relationship; otherwise, impotency, nihilism, makes the "relationship" of no account. 

Though our Creator has created Human Kind for a very specific eschatological imperative, His omnipotence is not hindered by our ability to freely choose whom we will serve as He is perfectly capable of working through and around our free will choices to accomplish His eschatological mandates and bring Time and physics to His foreordained conclusion. 

You possess the free will to choose to believe and trust in what Elohim has told you concerning the Son, Jesus Christ, and find life in the Name of Jesus as your Messiah and LIVE eternally with Jesus in the New Jerusalem or you can choose to deny Jesus, live apart from Elohim's will for your life and ultimately perish in spiritual ignorance and eternal death as your rebellion will not be permitted to enter the Kingdom (Revelation 21:27).  

 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; The omniscience of our Creator does not negate the necessity for free will as it pertains to both the angelic and human creation. Our Creator is defined by the divine attribute of "love" (1 John 4:7-8) and in order for love to exist in an atmosphere of purity, authenticity, legitimacy, sustainability, reciprocal enjoyment and pleasure in intimacy, both parties in that "relationship" must possess volition, the ability to choose to engage in that relationship; otherwise, impotency, nihilism, makes the "relationship" of no account. 

Though our Creator has created Human Kind for a very specific eschatological imperative, His omnipotence is not hindered by our ability to freely choose whom we will serve as He is perfectly capable of working through and around our free will choices to accomplish His eschatological mandates and bring Time and physics to His foreordained conclusion. 

You possess the free will to choose to believe and trust in what Elohim has told you concerning the Son, Jesus Christ, and find life in the Name of Jesus as your Messiah and LIVE eternally with Jesus in the New Jerusalem or you can choose to deny Jesus, live apart from Elohim's will for your life and ultimately perish in spiritual ignorance and eternal death as your rebellion will not be permitted to enter the Kingdom (Revelation 21:27).  

 

Exactly. Believe in me or else only creates impotency, nihilism. Not freewill choices. Romans 8:29-30 states, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 declares, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will” You see? Your own bible tells you I'm right. No freewill, only gods will prevails. Tell me, how does one avert what god has set in stone and will happen according to his will?

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; Satan is spirit, you might ingratiate yourself with him through a rejection of Jesus as your Messiah and a compromise with this dying World and your obedience to him as your father, but intercourse is not possible though you may have entered into aberrant sexual conduct with someone who is the devil's relative in spirit. Jesus did say, "You will know them by their fruit" (Matthew 7:15-20) and the words spoken flow from what is in a person's heart (Luke 6:45). 
[HUGE MEME THAT WAS REMOVED BY @MayCaesar]

Ah, I remember you now. You are that guy who preaches and posts memes.

What can you know about Satan if you have never spent a night with her? You do not know a creature like this until you have gone in deep... if you know what I mean. Granted, you have to work for it: she is a mean lady and likes some of the more... exquisite forms of foreplay. I called her "hot" in all senses you can imagine, and even in those you cannot.

But if the picture of Jesus on a cross arouses you more, that is cool too!

Barnardot

@RickeyHoltsclaw ;what if the Canon of Scripture is true

And what if pigs fly past my window every day.

What if !! Sure what if all right. Which is what your whacky belief is all about. 

What about the realty of what is. Like the realty of your dum morbid negative religion that preaches doom and gloom and damnation to all others who dont believe your nutty crap like for example as you said:

 this, while Messiah Jesus is the KEY to victory over death, Hell, the grave and Satan in this Spiritual War.

Now that really is enlightening isnt it?

Tell us more positive stuff like about hating other people like homos and pregnant unwed moms and people of other faith.

Like I really want to be uplifted and have a reason to believe in God.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; 1) You are given the choice to believe or deny...this is your free will prerogative. Without Jesus, you were not afforded the opportunity to enter into life with our Creator, you were destined to death in Hell because your sin was not afforded atonement (Leviticus 17:11). If that offends you, you're free to be offended but I choose to honor the will of the One who created me and possesses sovereignty over me...to reject His offer of life that He earned for me through His own suffering on a Roman cross, in my opinion, would be selfish and ludicrous (John 3:16).

2) Concerning Romans 8:29-30, Elohim desires that "all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth" (1 Timothy 2:4) and predestined - desired all to life in Him "that would believe" (John 3). This does not suggest Elohim created a "few" for life and predestined "many" for death in Hell (Matthew 7:13-14) but He desires all men and women be saved through Jesus and live eternally with Him - but - then enters "free will" and the necessity for our volition concerning whether or not we desire a relationship with Him or a life of self-righteousness in the flesh and ultimately death in Hell. Elohim will NOT force your hand concerning whom you choose to serve as this would negate the essential components of authentic relationship and intimacy. Elohim created us with free will and allows us the volition to choose...simply because He is Creator does not suggest He created a few for glory and many for destruction...Elohim finds no pleasure in the death of the wicked but the wicked have chosen that path and Elohim honors their free will decisions.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Barnardot ; 

1) Have you read the New Testament? Have you read the "Gospel of John?"

2) What exactly to do you find "whacky" about my faith in Jesus Christ?

3) The Gospel of Jesus is not about "dum morbid negative religion that preaches doom and gloom and damnation to all others who dont believe your nutty crap" but faith in Jesus is about a life of peace, joy, contentment, relationship, love, purpose, through the indwelling Holy Spirit given to all who believe in Jesus as Messiah (Ephesians 1:13-14). What do you find repulsive about a life lived in contentment and peace with our Creator (Romans 5:1)? 

4) If you studied the Scriptures provided you by our Creator, you would understand the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning your temporary existence within the temporary Realm of Time and physics and you would understand your destiny and your purpose or raison d'être.

5) Christians don't "hate" those entrapped by the unsustainable life in LGBTQAI+ but understand why these deceptions exist, the author of this deception and understand that Jesus provides a Path to life apart from entrapment in a death-style of hopelessness and self-loathing. Jesus offers freedom.

6) Christians provide assistance to unwed moms and provide them alternatives to murdering their babies and the road of psychological and physiological trauma that follows abortion and trauma. 

7) You are afforded the opportunity to understand life and purpose through faith in Jesus...but YOU must desire this knowledge as Elohim (Genesis 1:1) will not force Himself upon you (1 Timothy 2:4). I found life in Jesus, I hope you will as well?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar

1) You asked: "What can you know about Satan if you have never spent a night with her?"

Truly, I spent the first 30-years of my life serving Satan, day and night...I came to know my enemy very well and I have the scars on my heart and on my body to prove that a relationship with Satan is not a life worth living. Also, Satan is identified in Scripture in the masculine (John 8:44).

2) You seem to be addicted to aberrant sex and sex with demons...I do pray that your conscience is not seared beyond hope (Romans 1:18-32).

3) The suffering of Jesus on a Roman cross would only "arouse" those who serve the Devil with their life as the Cross represents the defeat of the Devil as Jesus entered the Realm of Time specifically "to destroy the works of the Devil" (1 John 3:8b).

May my Lord have mercy on your soul.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder

Once again, Elohim omniscience does not suggest He predestined the will or subverts free will. As I noted earlier, free will is absolutely essential if one is to love, relate, engage in reciprocal intimacy, intimacy that is authentic, legitimate, fulfilling, wholesome, eternal. Elohim desires love-intimacy-relationship with both His angelic and human creation and He gave Himself, personally, so that eternal love and relationship with Him could manifest with purity and authenticity (Genesis 3:21; John 3; 1 Peter 1:18-19; Matthew 26:28). 

If Elohim has predestined and robotic-ally created the angels and human kind to love Him or hate Him, where is purpose, where is logic, where is reality, why Jesus, why Satan, why life? Can authentic love and intimacy be coerced or exist within an atmosphere of fear and trepidation? Can one that you take hostage and insist they love you through coercion manifest in a relationship of authenticity?  

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar

1) You asked: "What can you know about Satan if you have never spent a night with her?"

Truly, I spent the first 30-years of my life serving Satan, day and night...I came to know my enemy very well and I have the scars on my heart and on my body to prove that a relationship with Satan is not a life worth living. Also, Satan is identified in Scripture in the masculine (John 8:44).

2) You seem to be addicted to aberrant sex and sex with demons...I do pray that your conscience is not seared beyond hope (Romans 1:18-32).

3) The suffering of Jesus on a Roman cross would only "arouse" those who serve the Devil with their life as the Cross represents the defeat of the Devil as Jesus entered the Realm of Time specifically "to destroy the works of the Devil" (1 John 3:8b).

May my Lord have mercy on your soul.

[ANOTHER BORING MEME]

You did? Strange, she never mentioned you. Maybe I just did not hear your name make it through all the moaning... You are right about her being fairly masculine though, in that she always holds the reins. I like a mean lady like this!

Demons and devils are different creatures, pal. I do not serve either, but I like having fun with hot demons. Admittedly they have more fun with me than I do with them, but a bit of pain is like a good hot sauce on top of a juicy steak: it only adds to the experience.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder

Once again, Elohim omniscience does not suggest He predestined the will or subverts free will. As I noted earlier, free will is absolutely essential if one is to love, relate, engage in reciprocal intimacy, intimacy that is authentic, legitimate, fulfilling, wholesome, eternal. Elohim desires love-intimacy-relationship with both His angelic and human creation and He gave Himself, personally, so that eternal love and relationship with Him could manifest with purity and authenticity (Genesis 3:21; John 3; 1 Peter 1:18-19; Matthew 26:28). 

If Elohim has predestined and robotic-ally created the angels and human kind to love Him or hate Him, where is purpose, where is logic, where is reality, why Jesus, why Satan, why life? Can authentic love and intimacy be coerced or exist within an atmosphere of fear and trepidation? Can one that you take hostage and insist they love you through coercion manifest in a relationship of authenticity?  

There in lies the problem. Belief in elohim is illogical. I'm not the bad guy here. I just read the book, several times and the reality of the content messages never changes. The bible makes it clear repeatedly that god chose those who would follow him before they were ever born. That they were with him before they were born. Biblically speaking, if freewill truly existed it would be possible to surprise god. Instead of judas iscariot betraying christ as planned, maybe peter does, or maybe no one does? That wasn't possible though because god has no surprises. Yes authentic love is voluntarily reciprocated, not under threat of hell fire. That threat coming from an entity that knows who it's going to burn forever already anyway. Like satan, it created them to suffer torment day and night with no rest, ever. I agree with you. Who can love a god that purposely causes such fear, such trepidation? It's just not logical to love such a thing.

Factfinder

You didn't serve satan for 30 years @RickeyHoltsclaw. You served yourself. Still are. You like the idea of sitting at a huge banquet table, surround by riches and golden streets. All of which are earthly treasures and have no value in heaven. So you can rule with christ over who? Lesser people, the ones in hell? Who knows? point is that's an earthly, carnal desire. It's illogical and you're serving yourself.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder

1) What is "illogical" about coming to the realization that there exists unfathomable design which inundates our daily perceptions, senses and interactions with nature, these perceptions and interactions mandating an omnipotent Designer that is superior to and outside the constraints of Time and physics; then, finding that this Designer has left you a written account of the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning His will and plan for your life and your existence within that unfathomable design? Romans 1:18-32

2) The Scriptures tell you repeatedly that our Creator created humanity in perfection possessing "free will" and that humanity "chose" to reject their Creator's will and proceeded to pursue their own will in selfishness and arrogance (Romans 5:12; Genesis 6). If Elohim had predestined humanity to to die in Hell in rebellion to His will, why bother...why Jesus?

3) The Father knew that Judas would "choose" to betray Messiah for 30-pieces of silver and this truism is NOT the resultant of predestination but due Elohim's omniscience and Elohim's omniscience does NOT negate free will; in fact, the betrayal of Messiah by Judas was foretold by the prophet Zechariah...

 “And I said unto them, If you think good, give me my hire; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my hire thirty pieces of silver. And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter, the goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them unto the potter, in the house of Jehovah” (Zechariah 11:12-13). 

4) It is true that Elohim does have a rigid, immutable, eschatological plan concerning the defeat of Satan, the restoration of holiness and purity to His Kingdom and the role of Time and physics in that plan but both the angelic and human creation possess free will to choose their loyalty; this, by necessity yet Elohim, in His omnipotence, is perfectly capable of working through and around His created beings to accomplish that eschatological plan...as you have rejected Elohim's plan for your life, He has simply worked through another that complies with His will by volition and even in your rebellion to Elohim's will, he employs your choices for His perfect will and for the benefit of those who choose to love Him and desire an eternal relationship with Him.

5) Satan and the rebellious angelic creation that follows Satan in the Great Kingdom War are angelic and they do NOT DIE (Luke 20:36); therefore, their punishment will be eternal (Revelation 20:10) but rebellious humanity that rejects Elohim's love and denies our Savior, Messiah, Jesus Christ for the atonement of sin, these will perish in the "second death" subsequent Judgment as their unrepentant sin, their rejection of Messiah, will NOT be permitted to enter the Kingdom where "nothing impure" is allowed to enter therein (Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:27).

6) It is an act of the human will, an humble heart via volition who accepts the reality of their sinfulness and the goodness of Elohim and His compassion through Jesus that honors Him by faith in Messiah Jesus and desires to live with Him eternally; this, when they possess the knowledge of why Elohim has done what He has done but those who insist on existing in spiritual ignorance and rebellion and selfishness, these will surely reap what they sow in that defiance and spiritual ignorance.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;

1) You have chosen your eternal fate...I do wish I could help you but you have chosen that which is not sustainable and this is your free will prerogative.

2) You serve the devil in your rebellion to Elohim's will for your life as there are only two-options available to you concerning your loyalty... Jesus or Satan. You have "chosen" void wisdom and knowledge.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Speak for yourself, Elohim's lackey. I serve no one but myself, and let no one think for me but myself.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; If you reject Elohim, you serve Satan; this, irrespective of your disavowing your alliance with same.

 

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

In your world of spineless cowards, maybe. In my world, I am the master of my fate. I am not necessarily the master of the bedroom when a hot demoness is present, but hey, we all choose our battles.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; You are the master of nothing...you cannot extend one second of life or control the death that awaits your body of decay...you are wholly subject to the forces of nature that constrain you and you are a willing servant of Satan by your own volition; Satan, who controls your thoughts, words, deeds, eternal destiny as your spiritual father...you are but flesh and the impact, the legacy you will leave as you exit this temporary World is like the non-existing void remaining subsequent a fist being withdrawn from a bucket of water...your only relevance in Time is the relationship you establish with your Creator by faith and the life you live in service to Him in Time and in Eternity.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Bogan @Bogan ;

The Father is Elohim (Genesis 1:1), the Son is Elohim (Genesis 1:1), the Holy Spirit is Elohim (Genesis 1:1) and these Three are One in all defic attributes yet they are Three in Person and in will and in purpose. Elohim (Genesis 1:1) is a plural noun with a singular verb.

The Holy Spirit proceeds to introduce Himself in Genesis 1:2; the Father, Son and Spirit are seen collaborating on the creation of the complex human genome (in their spiritual image) on Day-6 as “Us” and “Our;” while the Son is first introduced in Genesis 3:15 entering Time via the seed of the woman to do battle with the Devil (1 John 3:8b) via the Gospel of Grace, a divine battle strategy, which is first introduced in Genesis 3:21 with Elohim shedding innocent blood, Himself, to clothe Adam and Eve in an imputed-gifted robe of righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21) while simultaneously denying Adam’s attempts to cover his own sin and shame by the work of his hands (Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 2:16).

In the first three-chapters of the Genesis, the Trinity, the Gospel, the eschatological purpose for the creation narrative, the victory of Jesus over the Devil at Golgotha (1 John 3:8b) via the Gospel, a battle strategy ordained “before Time began” (2 Timothy 1:8-10), are clearly articulated for those with eyes to see, ears to hear and a heart that is willing to believe by faith.

Factfinder

You are the master of nothing @RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar seems to have mastered rejecting your myths.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; @MayCaesar is a servant of Satan by a free will choice; therefore, a master of nothing but hopelessness and fate similar to that of Satan. If you were born again by faith, you would understand this and the spiritual nature of the deceit.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder

1) What is "illogical" about coming to the realization that there exists unfathomable design which inundates our daily perceptions, senses and interactions with nature, these perceptions and interactions mandating an omnipotent Designer that is superior to and outside the constraints of Time and physics; then, finding that this Designer has left you a written account of the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning His will and plan for your life and your existence within that unfathomable design? Romans 1:18-32

2) The Scriptures tell you repeatedly that our Creator created humanity in perfection possessing "free will" and that humanity "chose" to reject their Creator's will and proceeded to pursue their own will in selfishness and arrogance (Romans 5:12; Genesis 6). If Elohim had predestined humanity to to die in Hell in rebellion to His will, why bother...why Jesus?

3) The Father knew that Judas would "choose" to betray Messiah for 30-pieces of silver and this truism is NOT the resultant of predestination but due Elohim's omniscience and Elohim's omniscience does NOT negate free will; in fact, the betrayal of Messiah by Judas was foretold by the prophet Zechariah...

 “And I said unto them, If you think good, give me my hire; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my hire thirty pieces of silver. And Jehovah said unto me, Cast it unto the potter, the goodly price that I was prized at by them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them unto the potter, in the house of Jehovah” (Zechariah 11:12-13). 

4) It is true that Elohim does have a rigid, immutable, eschatological plan concerning the defeat of Satan, the restoration of holiness and purity to His Kingdom and the role of Time and physics in that plan but both the angelic and human creation possess free will to choose their loyalty; this, by necessity yet Elohim, in His omnipotence, is perfectly capable of working through and around His created beings to accomplish that eschatological plan...as you have rejected Elohim's plan for your life, He has simply worked through another that complies with His will by volition and even in your rebellion to Elohim's will, he employs your choices for His perfect will and for the benefit of those who choose to love Him and desire an eternal relationship with Him.

5) Satan and the rebellious angelic creation that follows Satan in the Great Kingdom War are angelic and they do NOT DIE (Luke 20:36); therefore, their punishment will be eternal (Revelation 20:10) but rebellious humanity that rejects Elohim's love and denies our Savior, Messiah, Jesus Christ for the atonement of sin, these will perish in the "second death" subsequent Judgment as their unrepentant sin, their rejection of Messiah, will NOT be permitted to enter the Kingdom where "nothing impure" is allowed to enter therein (Revelation 20:11-15; Revelation 21:27).

6) It is an act of the human will, an humble heart via volition who accepts the reality of their sinfulness and the goodness of Elohim and His compassion through Jesus that honors Him by faith in Messiah Jesus and desires to live with Him eternally; this, when they possess the knowledge of why Elohim has done what He has done but those who insist on existing in spiritual ignorance and rebellion and selfishness, these will surely reap what they sow in that defiance and spiritual ignorance.

@RickeyHoltsclaw

1) What is "illogical" about coming to the realization that there exists unfathomable design which inundates our daily perceptions, senses and interactions with nature, these perceptions and interactions mandating an omnipotent Designer that is superior to and outside the constraints of Time and physics; then, finding that this Designer has left you a written account of the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning His will and plan for your life and your existence within that unfathomable design? Romans 1:18-32

Well "unfathomable" should be your first clue. Nothing about nature suggests supernatural activity. 

2) The Scriptures tell you repeatedly that our Creator created humanity in perfection possessing "free will" and that humanity "chose" to reject their Creator's will and proceeded to pursue their own will in selfishness and arrogance (Romans 5:12; Genesis 6). If Elohim had predestined humanity to to die in Hell in rebellion to His will, why bother...why Jesus?

Yup, that's what they say. Scripture also says you didn't choose me I chose you. john 15:16 

3) The Father knew that Judas would "choose" to betray Messiah for 30-pieces of silver and this truism is NOT the resultant of predestination but due Elohim's omniscience and Elohim's omniscience does NOT negate free will; in fact, the betrayal of Messiah by Judas was foretold by the prophet Zechariah...

The father knew millions of years before judas was created, he would betray jesus because he created him for that purpose. Your god doesn't adjust his will or change the future. Circumstances do not alter what god has decreed. It will come to pass. That's what your bible tells you. It is the same past, present and future in his mind because he as you said, lives outside of time. And your god is never changing. So before he created judas he knew he would betray christ. The act was set in stone according to your gods words and attributes. Thus biblical freewill does not exist. When jesus say the truth will set you free he means from sin to worship him, or else. Illogical. 

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; You are the master of nothing...you cannot extend one second of life or control the death that awaits your body of decay...you are wholly subject to the forces of nature that constrain you and you are a willing servant of Satan by your own volition; Satan, who controls your thoughts, words, deeds, eternal destiny as your spiritual father...you are but flesh and the impact, the legacy you will leave as you exit this temporary World is like the non-existing void remaining subsequent a fist being withdrawn from a bucket of water...your only relevance in Time is the relationship you establish with your Creator by faith and the life you live in service to Him in Time and in Eternity.

[SOME SILLY MEME]

I am not into this stuff, but I am genuinely curious what type of mushrooms gets you such interesting visions.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder

You said,

1) "Well "unfathomable" should be your first clue. Nothing about nature suggests supernatural activity."

Response: If Creation is not sufficient to suggest design and an intelligent Designer, please explain the presence of matter, the complex human genome, by naturalistic means?

2) "Yup, that's what they say. Scripture also says you didn't choose me I chose you." john 15:16

In order to understand the context of John 15, you must go back to John 13 and "The Last Supper" to understand the audience that Messiah is speaking too.

Jesus Washes the Disciples' Feet

13 (1) Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end.

It is true that we've all been chosen as vessels for Elohim's purposes and glory but Elohim's "choice" is also contingent upon the free will infused within every human being as we're created in the spiritual image of Elohim possessing certain divine communicable attributes of Elohim (Genesis 1:26-28), one of those communicable attributes being "free will." In John 13, we read of a Disciple of Jesus, Judas, who was "chosen" but volitionally opted to betray Jesus for 30-pieces of silver; this, though Judas was chosen as the inner circle of Jesus and was their treasurer....so you see, being "chosen" by Elohim does not negate the free will of the one chosen.

3) Elohim new that Judas would betray the Son but that in no way suggests Elohim created Judas to betray or steal or enter into wickedness as Elohim's omniscience in no way suggests predestination; in other words, Elohim foreordained Israel's children as His divine, sanctified, ministers of the Gospel and the Great Commission yet Israel's children, exercising free will, chose to reject-deny their Messiah, murder their Messiah sent specifically to them (Matthew 15:24) and they rejected the Great Commission as well; therefore, we see that being foreordained does not suggest predestined or the absence of volition. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; You can only escape Satan's dominion over your life through the personal will and an affirmative decision to walk away from Satan's deceit and acquire knowledge of your Creator through a study of His word. I would strongly recommend the scant 21-chapters of the "Gospel of John" as a starting point in your journey to tangible sanity and peace and assurance in Jesus as your Messiah. 

John's Gospel introduces you to the deity of Messiah and provides you a Path to life with the Father through faith in Jesus as your Intercessor...but you must desire this "born again" life and pursue same with diligence...you will not be sorry.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Response: If Creation is not sufficient to suggest design and an intelligent Designer, please explain the presence of matter, the complex human genome, by naturalistic means?

That's just the classic 'god did it' claim. There are things we do not know, it doesn't mean god did it. Natural things only reveal natural phenomenon. And we are learning more all the time. And still no supernatural evidence has ever emerged. Unless you have empirical evidence of supernatural origins you need to support your claims. Seeing the night sky and thinking god had to do this, doesn't work. Any claim you make about god I can easily say it was the flying spaghetti monster that did it. Your preaching and bible versus have no place in a debate on the origins of the natural phenomenon. Your claim is jesus is the only way to eternal life but you have produced no evidence eternal life as we generally think of it, even exists. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  

1) If there are things concerning the World around us and the Heavens above us that "we do not know" then you have no right to deny the very real possibility of a divine Creator (Psalm 14:1).

2) If you cannot explain the origin of matter, the complex human genome, the Heavens, the Earth, reason, logic, Time, through "naturalistic" explanations then these phenomena are "supernatural" lest a "naturalistic" explanation is readily available. 

3) Looking at the night sky and suggesting its presence has manifest "by chance" is simply foolish and obfuscation. 

4) My "preaching" is your interpretation of my responses to your atheistic rebuttal when in truth I'm simply responding to YOUR responses.

5) The Scriptures are evidence that Jesus is the only Way to life in Eternity...I believe it because the Scriptures exist and their supernatural eschatological truths cannot be explained away as having originated by the mind of man. 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  

1) If there are things concerning the World around us and the Heavens above us that "we do not know" then you have no right to deny the very real possibility of a divine Creator (Psalm 14:1).

2) If you cannot explain the origin of matter, the complex human genome, the Heavens, the Earth, reason, logic, Time, through "naturalistic" explanations then these phenomena are "supernatural" lest a "naturalistic" explanation is readily available. 

3) Looking at the night sky and suggesting its presence has manifest "by chance" is simply foolish and obfuscation. 

4) My "preaching" is your interpretation of my responses to your atheistic rebuttal when in truth I'm simply responding to YOUR responses.

5) The Scriptures are evidence that Jesus is the only Way to life in Eternity...I believe it because the Scriptures exist and their supernatural eschatological truths cannot be explained away as having originated by the mind of man. 

I said there is no evidence. Your assertions and bible verses are delusions, not evidence. I told you the truth. If you don't believe me then prove it wasn't the flying spaghetti monster and it was your myth instead. 

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; You can only escape Satan's dominion over your life through the personal will and an affirmative decision to walk away from Satan's deceit and acquire knowledge of your Creator through a study of His word. I would strongly recommend the scant 21-chapters of the "Gospel of John" as a starting point in your journey to tangible sanity and peace and assurance in Jesus as your Messiah. 

John's Gospel introduces you to the deity of Messiah and provides you a Path to life with the Father through faith in Jesus as your Intercessor...but you must desire this "born again" life and pursue same with diligence...you will not be sorry.

[YET ANOTHER MEME]

"Escape"? Buddy, I told you before that the sex is really good. Quite the contrary: I want to be able to stay in that place more often. Thank you for your recommendation, but rather than reading "Gospel of John", I prefer "Kama Sutra".

Factfinder said:

I said there is no evidence. Your assertions and bible verses are delusions, not evidence. I told you the truth. If you don't believe me then prove it wasn't the flying spaghetti monster and it was your myth instead. 

Some people have this bizarre notion that simply repeating their point over and over again is the path to convincing someone that they are right. Has that ever worked on anyone?

Barnardot

@RickeyHoltsclaw ;you have no right to deny the very real possibility of a divine Creator 

And you have no right to be on this site. So there are 2 words that you need to know and the second word is off.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Barnardot ; What "right" do you possess to deny me access to this site?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; We are not discussing your sexual proclivities or aberrant desires but the destiny of your soul and the truism that Jesus offers you the only Way to life in Eternity. Without Jesus, you have no hope. Does this not concern you in the least?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; The evidence for our Creator inundates your senses 24/7/365 and refusal to see this evidence, to examine it and pursue it is not wisdom but willful blindness. Please explain the presence of matter, logic, reason, the complex human genome by naturalistic means?

With that said, refute Jesus' divine proclamation that He, alone, is the Way to life in Eternity (John 14:6). 

 

Bogan

@RickeyHoltsclaw ;    The Father is Elohim (Genesis 1:1), the Son is Elohim (Genesis 1:1), the Holy Spirit is Elohim (Genesis 1:1) and these Three are One in all defic attributes yet they are Three in Person and in will and in purpose. Elohim (Genesis 1:1) is a plural noun with a singular verb.

So, 1+1+1 equals 1?     Now you know why I do not accept religion.    It is just like people from the neo Marxist religion telling me that a man can get pregnant.  Yeah, sure.     "Of all forms of nonsense, religious nonsense is the most nonsensical" ----Voltaire.        

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; The evidence for our Creator inundates your senses 24/7/365 and refusal to see this evidence, to examine it and pursue it is not wisdom but willful blindness. Please explain the presence of matter, logic, reason, the complex human genome by naturalistic means?

With that said, refute Jesus' divine proclamation that He, alone, is the Way to life in Eternity (John 14:6). 

 

'God did it' is not empirical evidence. Explain the presence of matter, logic, reason, the complex human genome by god. 

Learn what evidence actually is. I hereby refute jesus. 

Barnardot

 @RickyHoltsclaw @Factfinder ;The evidence for our Creator inundates your senses 24/7/365 and refusal to see this evidence, to examine it and pursue it is not wisdom but willful blindness.

So to translate in to common English you are saying that your deluded and that if any one else who isnt as deluded as you then there nits.

Please explain the presence of matter, logic, reason, the complex human genome by naturalistic means?

That would take about 500 pages and if you are really unblind as you claim you are then you would get off your lazy behind and read it. The science of evolution is very complex but that makes it even more true than a simple dum explanation like derr God made every thing and its in the Bible Amen.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Bogan ; Without Jesus as your Messiah, you entire existence will culminate in "nonsense."