Putin is backing Biden. Do you?

Putin

You'd better.

Barnardot

@just_sayin Well may be Trump is getting a bit tight on money to send Putin because it is costing him so much in legal bills and fines and getting re-elected. So Putin just goes for the highest bider right?

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin Well may be Trump is getting a bit tight on money to send Putin because it is costing him so much in legal bills and fines and getting re-elected. So Putin just goes for the highest bider right?

We'll put you down in the Putin/Biden column.

MayCaesar

Putin is simply saying the generic diplomatic thing he has said about every single US president so far: "Whoever is elected by the American people, we will work with". And "I respect the American president despite any issues he might have". Say what you will about the guy, but he mastered the diplomatic language. Reading more than that into it is trying too hard, I think.

Putin also is not a communist, and the Communist Party of Russia has a pretty negative view of him. I am not sure how you came up with the idea that he expresses the opinion of Russian communists. From what I know, the Russian communists generally support Trump who they see as showing to the whole world what is wrong with capitalism.

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

Putin is simply saying the generic diplomatic thing he has said about every single US president so far: "Whoever is elected by the American people, we will work with". And "I respect the American president despite any issues he might have". Say what you will about the guy, but he mastered the diplomatic language. Reading more than that into it is trying too hard, I think.

Putin also is not a communist, and the Communist Party of Russia has a pretty negative view of him. I am not sure how you came up with the idea that he expresses the opinion of Russian communists. From what I know, the Russian communists generally support Trump who they see as showing to the whole world what is wrong with capitalism.

So you are telling me that the guy who has referred to himself a Marxist-Leninist and believes the writings of Mao Zedong when he said 'Every communist must grasp that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. . . . In fact, we may say that the whole world can be remolded only with a gun.” That guy isn't a communist.  You know who else has Marxist/Socialist views and won't call himself a communist - Biden.  I am going to put you down in the Putin/Biden column.

I recognize what you are saying.  Putin is distinct from communism, though he has a good relationship with the Communist party leader.  Putin, much like Trump in ways, is a personality driven individual.  But how does one delineate the murdering done by/for Putin vs the murdering done by/for Communism in Russia?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@just_sayin ;  @MayCaesar ; @Barnardot Putin is former KGB...he is a strategist. Putin loves Biden and the mindless Progressives who support Biden as these virtue signaling nitwits continue to vomit billions of America's tax dollars into the coffers of Ukraine for the corporate laundromat while Zelensky and the autocrats are made unconscionably wealthy via graft while America is destroyed through a southern invasion, a weakening dollar, inflation, crime, family breakdown, filthy progressivism, liberal insanity....

Putin is laughing at America, the fools in our Government and Putin adores Biden's idiocy, mocks America's homosexuals, transsexuals and Biden's mental incompetence and those of like minded incompetence in Biden's administration that prop him up...literally...Obama and his husband Michael and the Clinton's and the Bush globalists...

Putin is watching America go bankrupt funding Ukraine when Putin fully knows that at his word, Ukraine would be morning TOAST within 3-days if Russia truly wanted Ukraine as a Soviet territory...Putin is bleeding the West dry financially...his Ruble is strong...his energy spigots are flowing, Iran is buying, China is buying, Europe is freezing...America is dying...Putin and Xi and Khamenei and Kim are party animals...along with Islam's Shia...they're all aroused like never before...America and Europe are Putin's playground and Xi is loving the show. 

   

MayCaesar

just_sayin said:

So you are telling me that the guy who has referred to himself a Marxist-Leninist and believes the writings of Mao Zedong when he said 'Every communist must grasp that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. . . . In fact, we may say that the whole world can be remolded only with a gun.” That guy isn't a communist.  You know who else has Marxist/Socialist views and won't call himself a communist - Biden.  I am going to put you down in the Putin/Biden column.

I recognize what you are saying.  Putin is distinct from communism, though he has a good relationship with the Communist party leader.  Putin, much like Trump in ways, is a personality driven individual.  But how does one delineate the murdering done by/for Putin vs the murdering done by/for Communism in Russia?

I just googled it, and it appears that you read it on the National Review website, the very first link that comes up when I put your quote in Google search. Let us see...

1) In no quote in the article "Putin refers to himself as a Marxist-Leninist". 
2) No quote suggests that Putin "believes the writings of Mao Zedong..."

Here is what the article actually says:

During his school years, Putin read the works of Marx, Engels, and Lenin in his spare time. He came of age in 1973, when the Soviet Union was a superpower and sponsoring Marxist regimes on every continent, advancing Lenin’s dream of a communist world. He joined the KGB in 1987 at age 35 and spent the next 16 years rising in the ranks to lieutenant colonel. In 1984, he was sent to Moscow for additional training at the Yuri Andropov Red Banner Institute. As KGB chairman, Andropov had pushed hard for the Warsaw Pact to crush the 1968 Prague Spring.
...
Mao Zedong, whom Putin surely read, wrote: “Every communist must grasp that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. . . . In fact, we may say that the whole world can be remolded only with a gun.”

You know, I keep cutting you slack - but maybe I should stop. You are very careless with how you read pretty much anything: what articles say, what other debaters say... It is just not interesting to debate with someone who demonstrates such neglect for truth.

Now, I happen to have lived under Putin's regime for a decade and a half, and I can read his original words. Here is a good example of his actual attitude towards Marxism-Leninism (from 1991):

"Я исхожу из того, что нужно относиться к истории как к тому, что было. И этого не вычеркнуть. Если же вас интересует мое отношение к этому человеку и к тому учению, которое он представлял, то я бы сказал так: был период в моей жизни, когда я с интересом относился к учению марксизма-ленинизма, много читал. Находил это чтиво интересным и часто логичным. Но по мере взросления, возмужания, для меня становилось все более и более очевидной истиной, что все это — не более, чем красивая и вредная сказка. Вредная, потому что осуществление или попытка проведения ее в жизнь в нашей стране, нанесла последней огромный ущерб, — сказал Путин 25 лет назад. — Мне бы хотелось два слова сказать о той трагедии, которую мы переживаем сегодня. А именно о трагедии распада нашего государства. Иначе как трагедией это не назовешь. Я думаю, что как раз деятели Октября 17-го года заложили мину замедленного действия под это здание, под здание унитарного государства, которое называлось Россией. Ведь что они сделали? Они разбили наше Отечество на отдельные княжества, которые раньше на карте земного шара и не фигурировали вообще. Наделили эти княжества правительствами и парламентами. А теперь мы имеем то, что имеем".

I will freely translate this for your convenience:

"My approach is that history is to be treated as something that happened. And it cannot be thrown out. However, if you are curious about my attitude towards this man [Vladimir Lenin] and his ideology, I would say this: there was a period in my life when I was interested in Marxism-Leninism and read a lot. I found it interesting and often logical. However, as I grew up and matured, it was becoming increasingly clear to me that all of this is no more than a beautiful and harmful fantasy. Harmful because the attempt to put it in practice in our country brought incredible amount of damage. I would like to add a couple of words about the tragedy which we are going through today, specifically the tragedy of our country's collapse. It cannot be called anything other than tragedy. I think that exactly the leaders of the October Revolution planted a ticking bomb under this structure, the structure of an unitary state that was called Russia. Because what did they do? They split our motherland into individual republics that used to not even appear on the map. And gave those republics states and parliaments. So now we have what we have."

just_sayin

MayCaesar said:

just_sayin said:

So you are telling me that the guy who has referred to himself a Marxist-Leninist and believes the writings of Mao Zedong when he said 'Every communist must grasp that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. . . . In fact, we may say that the whole world can be remolded only with a gun.” That guy isn't a communist.  You know who else has Marxist/Socialist views and won't call himself a communist - Biden.  I am going to put you down in the Putin/Biden column.

I recognize what you are saying.  Putin is distinct from communism, though he has a good relationship with the Communist party leader.  Putin, much like Trump in ways, is a personality driven individual.  But how does one delineate the murdering done by/for Putin vs the murdering done by/for Communism in Russia?

I just googled it, and it appears that you read it on the National Review website, the very first link that comes up when I put your quote in Google search. Let us see...

1) In no quote in the article "Putin refers to himself as a Marxist-Leninist". 
2) No quote suggests that Putin "believes the writings of Mao Zedong..."

Here is what the article actually says:

During his school years, Putin read the works of Marx, Engels, and Lenin in his spare time. He came of age in 1973, when the Soviet Union was a superpower and sponsoring Marxist regimes on every continent, advancing Lenin’s dream of a communist world. He joined the KGB in 1987 at age 35 and spent the next 16 years rising in the ranks to lieutenant colonel. In 1984, he was sent to Moscow for additional training at the Yuri Andropov Red Banner Institute. As KGB chairman, Andropov had pushed hard for the Warsaw Pact to crush the 1968 Prague Spring.
...
Mao Zedong, whom Putin surely read, wrote: “Every communist must grasp that political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. . . . In fact, we may say that the whole world can be remolded only with a gun.”

You know, I keep cutting you slack - but maybe I should stop. You are very careless with how you read pretty much anything: what articles say, what other debaters say... It is just not interesting to debate with someone who demonstrates such neglect for truth.

Now, I happen to have lived under Putin's regime for a decade and a half, and I can read his original words. Here is a good example of his actual attitude towards Marxism-Leninism (from 1991):

"Я исхожу из того, что нужно относиться к истории как к тому, что было. И этого не вычеркнуть. Если же вас интересует мое отношение к этому человеку и к тому учению, которое он представлял, то я бы сказал так: был период в моей жизни, когда я с интересом относился к учению марксизма-ленинизма, много читал. Находил это чтиво интересным и часто логичным. Но по мере взросления, возмужания, для меня становилось все более и более очевидной истиной, что все это — не более, чем красивая и вредная сказка. Вредная, потому что осуществление или попытка проведения ее в жизнь в нашей стране, нанесла последней огромный ущерб, — сказал Путин 25 лет назад. — Мне бы хотелось два слова сказать о той трагедии, которую мы переживаем сегодня. А именно о трагедии распада нашего государства. Иначе как трагедией это не назовешь. Я думаю, что как раз деятели Октября 17-го года заложили мину замедленного действия под это здание, под здание унитарного государства, которое называлось Россией. Ведь что они сделали? Они разбили наше Отечество на отдельные княжества, которые раньше на карте земного шара и не фигурировали вообще. Наделили эти княжества правительствами и парламентами. А теперь мы имеем то, что имеем".

I will freely translate this for your convenience:

"My approach is that history is to be treated as something that happened. And it cannot be thrown out. However, if you are curious about my attitude towards this man [Vladimir Lenin] and his ideology, I would say this: there was a period in my life when I was interested in Marxism-Leninism and read a lot. I found it interesting and often logical. However, as I grew up and matured, it was becoming increasingly clear to me that all of this is no more than a beautiful and harmful fantasy. Harmful because the attempt to put it in practice in our country brought incredible amount of damage. I would like to add a couple of words about the tragedy which we are going through today, specifically the tragedy of our country's collapse. It cannot be called anything other than tragedy. I think that exactly the leaders of the October Revolution planted a ticking bomb under this structure, the structure of an unitary state that was called Russia. Because what did they do? They split our motherland into individual republics that used to not even appear on the map. And gave those republics states and parliaments. So now we have what we have."

May we should swap communist stories sometime.

From Newsweek:

Russian President Vladimir Putin has said he is and has always been fond of communist "ideas", while also comparing the Soviet code of conduct to the Bible, independent news agency Interfax reported.
Last week, Putin came under scrutiny from the Russian Communist Party for criticizing Vladimir Lenin, founder of the Soviet Union. Putin attacked his fellow Vladimir, holding Lenin responsible for the collapse of the USSR. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov then defended the president's statement.
At a forum in Stavropol on Monday, Putin piled more criticism onto Lenin, but insisted his attitude to Communist ideas had never wavered and that to this day he keeps his party membership ticket at home.
"You know that I, like millions of Soviet citizens, over 20 million, was a member of the Communist Party of the USSR and not only was I a member of the party but I worked for almost 20 years for an organization called the Committee for State Security," Putin said, referring to the KGB.
"I was not, as you know, a party member by necessity," he said. "I liked Communist and socialist ideas very much and I like them still."
In his speech, Putin insisted he was never just a "functionary" when it came to party matters and said the Moral Code of the Builder of Communism—a set of rules to be followed by all party members—"resembles the Bible a lot."

The China - Russia link is explained here.  

You are correct that the quote from Zedong did come from the NE article.  So?

MayCaesar

@just_sayin

I do not have that many, honestly: I was born when the Soviet Union was mostly just two words on the map, not something that one would call a viable state.

What is for certain is that Putin is not a communist, even though he might be sympathetic for some of its ideas - much like I am not a Buddhist, even though I like its concept of "letting go".
A relevant quote from here https://www.dw.com/ru/%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD-%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BB-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%8E-%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%8E-%D1%81-%D1%85%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BC/a-42142511 Translate it at your own risk: the comparison in question is not one you will like.

Коммунистическая идеология "очень сродни" христианству, заявил президент РФ Владимир Путин в документальном фильме "Валаам", отрывок из которого был опубликован на "Вести.ru" в воскресенье, 14 января.Кодекс строителей коммунизма, по мнению Путина, является "сублимацией и примитивной выдержкой из Библии". Кроме того, президент заявил, что тело Ленина в 

Мавзолее повторяет традицию с поклонением мощам в христианстве. "Ленина положили в Мавзолей - чем это отличается от мощей для православных, да просто для христиан?" - сказал Путин.
По словам президента, "тогдашняя власть" не придумала ничего нового, а приспособила под свою идеологию "то, что человечество уже давно изобрело". "Свобода, равенство, братство - это ведь все заложено в Священном писании", - считает Владимир Путин.

There is almost no evidence of Putin having warm feelings towards Mao Zedong or his teachings: the article you referenced merely said that "Mao Zedong, whom Putin surely read, wrote..." First, "surely read" is something that a person not familiar with Russia would say, for a lot of Russians have read Lenin's works, but Mao's books are barely read by anyone outside China (I have never seen Mao's books in any bookstore, while Lenin's and even Stalin's works are commonplace). Second, reading someone does not imply believing in them. I have read a book by Mussolini - do I now believe in fascism? 

Look, there are valid arguments to be made in favor of Putin wanting Biden to win the election because of his frailty. There is no need to resort to this kind of fact-twisting.

Barnardot

@just_sayin ;We'll put you down in the Putin/Biden column.

Like funk you will.

Like what part of

Well may be Trump is getting a bit tight on money to send Putin because it is costing him so much in legal bills and fines and getting re-elected. So Putin just goes for the highest bider right?

in any way infers that I support Biden? Like derr.

And like who the funk ever said that babies were killed and that a deceiving lieing bitsh was paralized and jumped out of a wheel chair because she prayed?

And whats the weather like up there on your planet?

Factfinder

Barnardot said:

@just_sayin ;We'll put you down in the Putin/Biden column.

Like funk you will.

Like what part of

Well may be Trump is getting a bit tight on money to send Putin because it is costing him so much in legal bills and fines and getting re-elected. So Putin just goes for the highest bider right?

in any way infers that I support Biden? Like derr.

And like who the funk ever said that babies were killed and that a deceiving lieing bitsh was paralized and jumped out of a wheel chair because she prayed?

And whats the weather like up there on your planet?

Just-sayin presumes which causes him to infer. I saw nothing that implied you were for biden.

Barnardot

@Factfinder @just-sayin presumes which causes him to infer. I saw nothing that implied you were for biden.

I dont think that Biden is bad. he has heaps of experience. I just think that Trump is a better man for the job because he is a doer and cant do much more than what the administration will let him. Regan got things done because he was a good administrator and Trump gets things done because he will always stick his neck out and take the risk.

Factfinder

@Barnardot

Yeah we're left with the lesser of two evils once again. Just once I'd like a win/win situation. 

Barnardot

@Factfinder ;Yeah we're left with the lesser of two evils once again. Just once I'd like a win/win situation. 

I would say that if Putin is supporting Biden and with the elections coming Trump better watch what hes eating and he should definitely not go near the Novichok Cookies.

Factfinder

Barnardot said:

@Factfinder ;Yeah we're left with the lesser of two evils once again. Just once I'd like a win/win situation. 

I would say that if Putin is supporting Biden and with the elections coming Trump better watch what hes eating and he should definitely not go near the Novichok Cookies.

LOL And I would be inclined to agree with you!