Thought on William Lane Craig?

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

; William Craig is just a man...trust in Jesus, learn from the Holy Spirit, and LIVE.

Craig exist, your fairy elf god don't. Open your eyes and live. Before you die and never exist again. That scares you, but it's reality. Sorry.

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

How is an imaginary mythical figure more worthy of attention than a real person? Should I trust in Thor as well?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ;  

Craig, Dawkins, Harris, Ra, Hawking, these are created beings...they are physical, they are limited, they are demonically prejudiced, they are death, they are hopeless in their demonically induced worldview...it is not the wise who idolize these idiots of the Devil...it is wise to trust in our Creator who is forever and loves us and has come to us and told us His eschatological plan for Time and Eternity and asks that we join with Him in victory. 

But you and yours idolize the wicked, the death of darkness...you have no sense of shame or embarrassment in your obsession with that which is not only dishonorable but illogical, evil and not sustainable. You can't see, you can't hear, you can't discern...you are lost and dying in Hell in your sin...yet you scoff...this is misery defined shielded by a seared conscience that scrambles for the portal to Hell. 

 

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

; William Craig is just a man...trust in Jesus, learn from the Holy Spirit, and LIVE.

Craig exist, your fairy elf god don't. Open your eyes and live. Before you die and never exist again. That scares you, but it's reality. Sorry.

@Factfinder ;  It is the fool who says there is no God.

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Factfinder said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

; William Craig is just a man...trust in Jesus, learn from the Holy Spirit, and LIVE.

Craig exist, your fairy elf god don't. Open your eyes and live. Before you die and never exist again. That scares you, but it's reality. Sorry.

@Factfinder ;  It is the fool who says there is no God.

It is the fool who claims things without sufficient evidence. It is the fool that does not recognise that he is a fool.

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

It is the fool who claims things without sufficient evidence. It is the fool that does not recognise that he is a fool.

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ;

The "evidence" for a Creator-Designer is overwhelming in Nature...that which inundates the senses day and night. It is Satan's fool who denies the possibility of a Creator-Designer; especially so, when those who live in denial cannot offer a logical alternative. That is the definition of Satan's fool.

John_C_87

@MayCaesar
In mathematics, for instance, the axioms we accept to be true are as basic as the Axiom of Empty Set, which basically posits that "nothing" is a valid concept
An axiom is something we can ask to be assumed true to describe how it can be held self-evident by one or more people. You must know the subject matter to understand how it is held as truth.

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

ZeusAres42 said:

It is the fool who claims things without sufficient evidence. It is the fool that does not recognise that he is a fool.

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ;

The "evidence" for a Creator-Designer is overwhelming in Nature...that which inundates the senses day and night. It is Satan's fool who denies the possibility of a Creator-Designer; especially so, when those who live in denial cannot offer a logical alternative. That is the definition of Satan's fool.

It is the fool that does not know what counts as sufficient evidence.

 It is the fool that does not know how to demonstrate how something counts as evidence

It is the fool that thinks being an adequate defender of faith is about constant repetition of passages and images instead of being about sincerity, honesty, truth and integrity. He doesn't realize he is actually doing a very bad job of defending the faith here and is actually doing a disservice.

It is the delusional that do not know and thus will not claim or even consider that they might be delusional.

just_sayin

John_C_87 said:

@MayCaesar
In mathematics, for instance, the axioms we accept to be true are as basic as the Axiom of Empty Set, which basically posits that "nothing" is a valid concept
An axiom is something we can ask to be assumed true to describe how it can be held self-evident by one or more people. You must know the subject matter to understand how it is held as truth.

John, what attributes does a set of nothing have that it can create a universe out of?  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 @MayCaesar ; @Factfinder @just_sayin @GnosticChristian

When communicating directly with me, please include @rickeyholtsclaw so I receive your directed response; otherwise, it may get lost in the morass of irrelevancy inundating these pages of atheistic input. I don't regularly wade into the absurdity of atheistic obfuscation...it's incredibly telling.

Again, you are the fool who denies even the possibility of our Creator's existence as you vomit the words of demonically inspired "men" as obfuscation for your seared conscience, your addictions, your obsession with the insanity of atheism and your path to death in Hell.

You have no alternative explanations for the design, the intricacy, the supernatural reality that inundates your senses 24/7/365 yet you obsessively obfuscate this truth and emphatically deny even the "possibility" of our Creator; this, due your hatred for the Spiritual and a healthy conscience that would accuse you of your self-defilement and your obligations to our Sovereign Creator...that is embarrassingly pathetic...everyone of you atheists who mock these pages with demonic rhetoric. Your day is coming lest you repent and trust sincerely in Jesus as your Messiah.

   

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

If God the almighty failed in effectively communicating his will and existence to us then what makes you think you as mere mortal can do a better Job? 

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

If God the almighty failed in effectively communicating his will and existence to us then what makes you think you as mere mortal can do a better Job? 

@ZeusAres42 ; @Factfinder ; @MayCaesar ; @GnosticChristian

Elohim has effectively communicated, through both His written word and Living Word (John 1), the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning Creation and the purpose for same; the fact is, you don't want to hear this truth because you love your sin, your flesh, your arrogance, your narcissism, more than Elohim's truth which testifies against atheistic insanity and its nihilistic future. 

 

Factfinder

@just_sayin

John, what attributes does a set of nothing have that it can create a universe out of?  

That is a pointless question and it doesn't do anything for your position. 

What attributes do anyone of the 100% mythical, fictious gods so so far across the spectrum have they they can create a universe out of? Faith matter attributes don't count.

See, both have useless answers.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Factfinder said:

@just_sayin

John, what attributes does a set of nothing have that it can create a universe out of?  

That is a pointless question and it doesn't do anything for your position. 

What attributes do anyone of the 100% mythical, fictious gods so so far across the spectrum have they they can create a universe out of? Faith matter attributes don't count.

See, both have useless answers.

@Factfinder ;  Substantiate your claims of "100% mythical" Creator...let's hear your evidence disproving the reality of our Creator, Designer?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@RickeyHoltsclaw @Factfinder ; I mean if you're 100% sure that our Creator does not exist...please provide evidence that substantiates this claim by providing evidence via naturalistic means detailing the origin of matter, life, the Earth and the Heavens; if not, if you're unable, are you saying that your denial of our Creator is based solely on FAITH? Imagine that....wow...atheistic "faith." 

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Please substantiate your claim that there is evidence of god without pointing to the bible or by "saying just look the natural phenomenon around us." We are looking for empirical, verifiable, falsifiable evidence that gives true justification for believing in probability of the truth of such claims. 

Ps: At the moment it is you that is delusional. Of course you won't say you as that is exactly what a delusional person would say. A schizophrenic for example does not just believe; in their mind these delusional beliefs are very real; they "know" that this real with complete 100 percent certainty. Unless you are being dishonest you are delusional. 

You are the one of narcissism, arrogance, self righteousness etc. all masquerading as humility but failing miserably with that humility. 

I probably will never get through to you (you are beyond the scope of non medical intervention) but I will for the benefit of others so they took don't become infected with the mental faith virus continue to stand up for good reasoning, rationality, justification, critical thinking, true knowledge, integrity, sincerity and for the benefit of humanity. It would be immoral not to. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42 said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Please substantiate your claim that there is evidence of god without pointing to the bible or by "saying just look the natural phenomenon around us." We are looking for empirical, verifiable, falsifiable evidence that gives true justification for believing in probability of the truth of such claims. 

Ps: At the moment it is you that is delusional. Of course you won't say you as that is exactly what a delusional person would say. A schizophrenic for example does not just believe; in their mind these delusional beliefs are very real; they "know" that this real with complete 100 percent certainty. Unless you are being dishonest you are delusional. 

You are the one of narcissism, arrogance, self righteousness etc. all masquerading as humility but failing miserably with that humility. 

I probably will never get through to you (you are beyond the scope of non medical intervention) but I will for the benefit of others so they took don't become infected with the mental faith virus continue to stand up for good reasoning, rationality, justification, critical thinking, true knowledge, integrity, sincerity and for the benefit of humanity. It would be immoral not to. 

@ZeusAres42 @MayCaesar ; @Factfinder ; @Bogan ; @GnosticChristian ; @John_C_87 ;

The Holy Spirit clearly, articulately, explains the who, what, where, when, why, how concerning our creation; the Spirit includes eschatological prophecy that has manifest accurately; this, beyond human understanding; Jesus has entered the Realm of Time and fulfilled over 300-Messianic prophecies that are beyond logical, mathematical, understanding; Jesus has explained eschatology through John on the Island of Patmos via the Revelation in 90AD and we see this phenomena coming to pass in our age; we see the supernatural World around us and humanity simply has no plausible explanation for its origin, its existence, its sustainability, its purpose, its reason for being...but the Holy Spirit has articulated this perfectly...I attended the University through a Masters Degree...none of my professors, even the Harvard Graduates, could explain ANYTHING...it's all a mystery...yet my Lord has explained it...and I believe it. 

You are a religion of foolish faith, atheism, debunked-foolish-ludicrous faith of the illogical prefacing mental illness in demonic deception. You get through to me?  Really...You are NOTHING of relevance in your atheism...you're a fool of the Devil pursuing nihilism along with your atheistic cohorts.... you are an embarrassment to all that good, holy, righteous, sustainable, honorable. 

    

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

The Holy Spirit clearly, articulately, explains the who, what, where, when, why, how concerning our creation; the Spirit includes eschatological prophecy that has manifest accurately; this, beyond human understanding; Jesus has entered the Realm of Time and fulfilled over 300-Messianic prophecies that are beyond logical, mathematical, understanding; Jesus has explained eschatology through John on the Island of Patmos via the Revelation in 90AD and we see this phenomena coming to pass in our age; we see the supernatural World around us and humanity simply has no plausible explanation for its origin, its existence, its sustainability, its purpose, its reason for being...but the Holy Spirit has articulated this perfectly...I attended the University through a Masters Degree...none of my professors, even the Harvard Graduates, could explain ANYTHING...it's all a mystery...yet my Lord has explained it...and I believe it. 

You are a religion of foolish faith, atheism, debunked-foolish-ludicrous faith of the illogical prefacing mental illness in demonic deception. You get through to me?  Really...You are NOTHING of relevance in your atheism...you're a fool of the Devil pursuing nihilism along with your atheistic cohorts.... you are an embarrassment to all that good, holy, righteous, sustainable, honorable. 

And that is precisely the same kind of statement any other delusional person from another theistic religion or internal doctrine would make, which also directly opposes this doctrine that RickeyHolstClas adheres to. One would have thought that a God, worthy of the attributes ascribed to Him, would have done a far better job of communicating more effectively to avoid these internal and external disputes that have also led to outright barbaric behavior over the centuries. 

PS @RickeyHoltsClaw, regarding your attempt to appeal to nature as evidence for this God, if you had done your research, you would know that this is exactly what can be found in Greek and Norse Mythology, among other traditions. Using your logic then we could also claim that it's not one God but multiple divinations repsonsible for different areas of the creation. 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@RickeyHoltsclaw @Factfinder ; I mean if you're 100% sure that our Creator does not exist...please provide evidence that substantiates this claim by providing evidence via naturalistic means detailing the origin of matter, life, the Earth and the Heavens; if not, if you're unable, are you saying that your denial of our Creator is based solely on FAITH? Imagine that....wow...atheistic "faith." 

I am not claiming I know anything with 100% assurance. I'm just saying I've only seen evidence of natural phenomenon and seen nothing that points to your god or any other.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

    

Whoever made this meme has no clue about statistics. You can nitpick a particular set of outcomes the probability of which is extremely low, yet it will say absolutely nothing about unfeasibility of that outcome happening naturally.

What is the probability of getting 100 tails in a row? 1/2^100, which is an astronomically low number. Now flip a coin 100 times and write the sequence of heads and tails that you got. Guess what the probability of getting this sequence is? Same: 1/2^100. Must have been god's work, no?

If you make 50 vague prophecies, then almost anyone will fulfill multiple of them. Then you will take one of those fulfillments, constrain its parameters to that particular occurrence (in this case "this exact sequence of heads and tails"), and say, "What are the odds?!" 

All of this stuff relies on one's inability to perform basic logical reasoning. That is what it takes to believe in fantasy stories: stop thinking logically and start blindly believing a few salesmen (and donate to their church generously) - and you got a religion.

John_C_87

@just_sayin A supreme truth existed in what was said to be nothing. Things had existed before a place of nothing they had not been found and why? Mathematics lacks formulas, solutions, in algebra, trigonometry, and calculus to be able to find nothing in the area of space such as universe.@MayCaesar

John_C_87

The odds of wining the largest lottery pay out and fulfilling 10 prophiese is 100% if the process of outcome can be fixed. 
I do not want to get into a debate on Devine Right here with you we are debating elsewhere.aleady I'm going to try and watch ZuseAres42's video clip.

Earning a Masters in Astrophysics &  Aerospace Engineer  it was part of my bucket list after writing a law of mathematic relativity and create a trigonometric method to test Pi.

just_sayin

John_C_87 said:

@just_sayin A supreme truth existed in what was said to be nothing. Things had existed before a place of nothing they had not been found and why? Mathematics lacks formulas, solutions, in algebra, trigonometry, and calculus to be able to find nothing in the area of space such as universe.@MayCaesar

John, if there was nothing, where did the laws of mathematics come from?  Do they exist independent of the universe?  As abstract objects there existence isn't necessarily tied to the universe's existence.

John_C_87

@ZeusAres42 ;
And that is precisely the same kind of statement any other delusional person from another theistic religion or internal doctrine would make, which also directly opposes this doctrine that RickeyHolstClas adheres to. One would have thought that a God, worthy of the attributes ascribed to Him, would have done a far better job of communicating more effectively to avoid these internal and external disputes that have also led to outright barbaric behavior over the centuries. 

There is an observation here that Christianity is not a religion it is a form of Monarchy created by the use of democracy as the people in order to enter the Monarchy must vote Jesus is the King, and as king, he is also God. Like I have mentioned RickyHoltsClaw is speaking of devine law and this type Monarch does exist as real.

Factfinder

John_C_87 said:

@ZeusAres42 ;
And that is precisely the same kind of statement any other delusional person from another theistic religion or internal doctrine would make, which also directly opposes this doctrine that RickeyHolstClas adheres to. One would have thought that a God, worthy of the attributes ascribed to Him, would have done a far better job of communicating more effectively to avoid these internal and external disputes that have also led to outright barbaric behavior over the centuries. 

There is an observation here that Christianity is not a religion it is a form of Monarchy created by the use of democracy as the people in order to enter the Monarchy must vote Jesus is the King, and as king, he is also God. Like I have mentioned RickyHoltsClaw is speaking of devine law and this type Monarch does exist as real.

Monarchs and monarchies do exist. But when the religious trapping are overwhelmingly guiding the thought process, they begin to assert delusional decrees like ricky does. 

John_C_87

@Factfinder

Monarchs and monarchies do exist. But when the religious trapping are overwhelmingly guiding the thought process, they begin to assert delusional decrees like ricky does. 
Divine Law.

Factfinder

John_C_87 said:

@Factfinder

Monarchs and monarchies do exist. But when the religious trapping are overwhelmingly guiding the thought process, they begin to assert delusional decrees like ricky does. 
Divine Law.

Exactly.

John_C_87

@just_sayin
If there is nothing.  If there is nothing, why must the container be the universe? There are in fact many things that can hold nothing.  

just_sayin

John_C_87 said:

@just_sayin
If there is nothing.  If there is nothing, why must the container be the universe? There are in fact many things that can hold nothing.  

If the container is something, then it is not nothing - yet the big bang suggests that the universe came from nothing, or near nothing.  I'll ask you, as I did @Bogan, just how much stuff fits in zero space?   Lets assume space-time and matter can be represented by Q. And 0 represents the space for it.   Q x 0 = ?  Go ahead John, what's the answer?  

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

John_C_87 said:

@just_sayin
If there is nothing.  If there is nothing, why must the container be the universe? There are in fact many things that can hold nothing.  

If the container is something, then it is not nothing - yet the big bang suggests that the universe came from nothing, or near nothing.  I'll ask you, as I did @Bogan, just how much space, time and matter fits in zero space?   Lets assume space time and matter can be represented by Q.  Q x 0 = ?  Go ahead John, what's the answer?  

And tis proves god how? Yeah, didn't think so.

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

John_C_87 said:

@just_sayin
If there is nothing.  If there is nothing, why must the container be the universe? There are in fact many things that can hold nothing.  

If the container is something, then it is not nothing - yet the big bang suggests that the universe came from nothing, or near nothing.  I'll ask you, as I did @Bogan, just how much space, time and matter fits in zero space?   Lets assume space time and matter can be represented by Q.  Q x 0 = ?  Go ahead John, what's the answer?  

And tis proves god how? Yeah, didn't think so.

The Kalam cosmological argument says:

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its beginning.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its beginning.

Since there was 'nothing' at the beginning, the cause must be immaterial, timeless (because the cause must be outside of space-time itself to create it), powerful enough to create universes out of nothing, and intelligent enough to create a finely tuned universe and to will it into existence.  That sounds a lot like God to me.

Outside of God, what have you got?  Literally (and I mean literally) nothing.

Factfinder

just_sayin said:

Factfinder said:

just_sayin said:

John_C_87 said:

@just_sayin
If there is nothing.  If there is nothing, why must the container be the universe? There are in fact many things that can hold nothing.  

If the container is something, then it is not nothing - yet the big bang suggests that the universe came from nothing, or near nothing.  I'll ask you, as I did @Bogan, just how much space, time and matter fits in zero space?   Lets assume space time and matter can be represented by Q.  Q x 0 = ?  Go ahead John, what's the answer?  

And tis proves god how? Yeah, didn't think so.

The Kalam cosmological argument says:

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its beginning.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its beginning.

Since there was 'nothing' at the beginning, the cause must be immaterial, timeless (because the cause must be outside of space-time itself to create it), powerful enough to create universes out of nothing, and intelligent enough to create a finely tuned universe and to will it into existence.  That sounds a lot like God to me.

Outside of God, what have you got?  Literally (and I mean literally) nothing.

All based on unproven premises. We can not look beyond the big bang so your premises are unknown. The Kalam cosmological argument is simply a 'god of the gaps' argument that uses assertions of ignorance...http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/kalam.html