Do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear codes?

jack

Delilah6120 said:

Do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear codes?

Hello Delilah:

Uhhh...  Which nuclear codes are you talking about??  The ones in his shower, or the ones he threw on the floor?  Maybe they're the ones he sold to the Saudi's.  I dunno.  He said he LOVES Kim Jon Un.  Maybe he gave them to him..

Du*de!

excon

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: Uhhh... Which nuclear codes are you talking about??

@jack

Good point Jack. I posted this because someone just posted something about his amorality but I´ve seen his posts and believe he supports Trump. It is just a curiosity and I´m curious to see who responds. In my opinion, if someone lacks characters, he´s not competent to lead.

MichaelElpers

@Delilah6120

Considering hes the only president in recent history that hasnt gotten us into more wars and conflicts...yes.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: Considering hes the only president in recent history that hasnt gotten us into more wars and conflicts...yes.

Interesting. Not sure if I would say previous presidents GOT US INTO wars or conflicts. The wars may have started during their presidency. I guess if that is your one and only item you vote on. Maybe you have a different definition of character strength. 

The question was do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear codes.  You say yes because we didn´t go to war.  What character traits do you believe Trump had that other presidents didn´t have that kept wars at bay? Or could he have acquiesced to other strong leaders? To me, strength of character means calmness and prudence in times of adversity, sticking to ones values, always maintaining integrity and never swaying from that integrity. The president IMO should have courage, integrity, honesty and moral fortitude, someone who stays true to their strong convictions, consistency, empathy and compassion, someone willing to stand up for what they believe is right even in the most difficult circumstances. Honestly I can´t say I would attribute any of those qualities to trump. And without strength of character, the leadership, which should be the foundation, will crumble along with everything else beneath it. Like from 2017-2021.

You say heś the only president that didn´t get us into war. Is that what you base your vote on? 

@MichaelElpers

MayCaesar

Whatever you think of Trump's moral integrity and policies, he certainly does not lack the strength of character. It takes iron guts to be criticized by thousands of media outlets in the harshest way possible, yet not change one's behavior an inch.

Trump also consistently pushes for non-interventionism, advocating for the focus on domestic policies. Him deciding to launch the nukes out of the blue is not a plausible scenario. He is a ruthless businessman at his core, not a cackling madman.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: Whatever you think of Trump's moral integrity and policies, he certainly does not lack the strength of character. It takes iron guts to be criticized by thousands of media outlets in the harshest way possible, yet not change one's behavior an inch.

@MayCaesar

Whatever you think of Trump's moral integrity and policies, he certainly does not lack the strength of character. It takes iron guts to be criticized by thousands of media outlets in the harshest way possible, yet not change one's behavior an inch.

Trump also consistently pushes for non-interventionism, advocating for the focus on domestic policies. Him deciding to launch the nukes out of the blue is not a plausible scenario. He is a ruthless businessman at his core, not a cackling madman 

Well there are many facets to having strength of character. Iron guts may be one. But not sure if its ¨iron guts¨ that kept his behavior from changing. I would say that criticism has been a large part of his life starting with being bullied both by his father and kids at school. I´d say his iron guts is more of a primal instinct of his to protect himself at all cost. He also displays some very childish traits like name calling, bullying others, inciting anger, and calling on his supporters to join him in his pity parties.

Yes, he is not a globalist in any sense. In fact he has said that he wants to disband NATO. EEEEKS. He is an isolationist, a narcissist and wants supreme power and I believe he acquiesces to strong men. That along with his narcissism makes him unstable, untrustworthy and dangerous. So I disagree. If given the right moment when all are not loyal to him, he could threaten to press the button. Have you not heard testimony from some of his aids and cabinet?

MayCaesar

@Delilah6120

I am not sure what it matters how one has come to have a particular trait when the question is whether they have this trait. Strength of character is something like the ability to stand one's ground in the face of adversity, and it is hard to make the case for Trump not being able to do so consistently.
The name-calling you mentioned suggests that he does not have a habit of using assertive communication, instead resorting to aggressive one. I suppose that could be one argument for weakness of his character. Nonetheless, his accomplishments speak for themselves: however insecure he might appear when it comes to certain behaviors, he did become the president of the US when it felt like the entire media space and 2/3 of the population believed him to be Mussolini. No one can accomplish that without having very strong backbone.

Your second point does not make much sense to me. If he wants to disband NATO and is an isolationist, why would he press the button? He has to either be a war hawk, or an isolationist: he cannot be both.
The idea that he would press the button because someone disobeyed him is just... nuts, frankly. Again, he is a ruthless businessman, not a cackling madman.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: I am not sure what it matters how one has come to have a particular trait when the question is whether they have this trait

@MayCaesar

Ruthless businessman - yup - not necessarily a successful one.
Cackling madman - not quite - more like a sociopath
Captain Chaos is capable of much damage worldwide

MichaelElpers

@Delilah6120

No this is not the only issue Im voting on, I was responding to the thread.

What character traits do I think he had? He showed others he was willing to stand his ground.  He was very clearly no nonsense on foreign policy.
Second not necesarily a character trait he was outsider that challenged norms.  He was willing to call out allies for not putting doing what they agreed in our alliances.

There is nothing showing me that he cant be trusted with nuclear codes. In fact there are 4 years he was president that shows I shouldnt be worried about it.

I dont have some love affair with Trump, he would not be my first choice for candidacy. 

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: No this is not the only issue Im voting on, I was responding to the thread.

@MichaelElpers

His ẗoughness¨ in foreign policy impressed many trump supporters. Remember, he´s an actor, a narcissist and childishly verbose and vengeful. Sure, America First, was popular. But really what did he accomplish with his foreign policies? Was it just optics?

Much of his success with supporters is his ability to market himself and his braggadocio. See video. I believe the ¨strongman¨ role he played really impressed his voters. True, no wars were started but several past presidents can enjoy the same record. I´ve read that he´s left this country in worst shape globally. His tariffs on China were a failure as American citizens took the brunt. Curiously, he still seems to submit to Putin. Why was he trying to influence Speaker Johnson not to send aid to Ukraine? Why is the republican party so fractured? He has a curious relationship with authoritarians which is suspicious. I believe America is at its most divided now. One thing I can say about Trump is that he exposed a lot of ugly in America and now we´re faced to reckon with it. It needed to be done. That was his job. Well done Trump. Now we have to clean up after it.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/trump-appears-push-nato-leader-47640283

He does not have the strength of character needed to be the leader of America. He does not have the prudence, the intelligence, the emotional maturity, the stability, or the morality. Most importantly, he does not have Americans´ backs. What he has is a primal need to protect himself. A primal need to promote himself. A primal need to win. And he´ll stop at NOTHING to ensure this gets done. He is nothing but a middle finger to America. A very flawed and damaged human.

MayCaesar

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar

Ruthless businessman - yup - not necessarily a successful one.
Cackling madman - not quite - more like a sociopath
Captain Chaos is capable of much damage worldwide

Your arguments are all over the place. Trump's strength of character was under question, and "ruthless businessman" is a contributing factor to that. Whether he is a successful businessman or not - is not.

Trump being sociopath is a pretty strong claim without a medical diagnosis. It is hard to take your arguments seriously when you resort to such emotionally charged language.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Donald Trump is the only candidate that can provide America a modicum of hope concerning restoration of our Constitutional Republic and common decency. Progressives-Democrats are filthy demons.

xlJ_dolphin_473

@RickeyHoltsclaw
You can't just call policies you dislike "communist", you have to explain what you dislike about them.
As for the Constitution, in 2022 Donald Trump stated that supposed election fraud allowed for "the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution".

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: Your arguments are all over the place. Trump's strength of character was under question, and "ruthless businessman" is a contributing factor to that. Whether he is a successful businessman or not - is not.

@MayCaesar

Your argument that ruthless businessman makes one trustworthy of holding the faith of Americans is quite weak. Tell me other qualities that trump possesses makes one confident he will keep Americans safe?
Correct. I am not a medical expert though there have been many who´ve used sociopath to describe him. Would you agree he is a narcissist?

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: There is nothing showing me that he cant be trusted with nuclear codes. In fact there are 4 years he was president that shows I shouldnt be worried about it.

@MichaelElpers

Please read this. It will hurt. You must understand that Trump was simply transactional with no regard for the future. but much regard for himself. And had it not been for a few, worried but stable cabinet members (Kelly, Mattis, Milley) we could possibly be at war. And yet to be known is if Trump divulged classified information. Remember the boxes of classified information that he kept at Mar-a-Lago?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/05/trumps-final-foreign-policy-report-card/

Exerpt:

¨Last but by no means least, Trump’s handling of foreign policy succumbed to his own defects of character. His genius for self-promotion and remarkable ability to defy existing norms could not overcome his ignorance of most areas of policy, distrust of genuine expertise, short attention span, incorrigible dishonesty, and inability to place the national interest ahead of his own need for attention and adulation. Qualities that had sometimes worked in his up-and-down business career, in reality TV, and even on the campaign trail proved wholly unsuited to the tasks of governing, especially in the unforgiving world of foreign policy. In the end, even America’s many remaining advantages could not make up for Trump’s innate incompetence.¨

If you can honestly say that Trump can be trusted to protect America then you´re going to have to provide more evidence.

MayCaesar

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar

Your argument that ruthless businessman makes one trustworthy of holding the faith of Americans is quite weak. Tell me other qualities that trump possesses makes one confident he will keep Americans safe?
Correct. I am not a medical expert though there have been many who´ve used sociopath to describe him. Would you agree he is a narcissist?

It is made even weaker by the fact that I have never made it.

I do not characterize people by labels. If your question is whether I think that Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him, then yes, it seems likely to me.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: Argument Topic: There is nothing showing me that he cant be trusted with nuclear codes. In fact there are 4 years he was president that shows I shouldnt be worried about it.

@MichaelElpers

I was wondering if you had a chance to read the article I sent you? 

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: I do not characterize people by labels. If your question is whether I think that Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him, then yes, it seems likely to me.

@MayCaesar

The original post was Do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear codes? Since strength of character includes regarding the well-being of others, and you believe that as a narcissist Trump has no regard for others, then may I assume that your answer to the original post is NO, he should not be trusted with the nuclear codes?

MayCaesar

@Delilah6120

I will not respond to loaded questions. Please state my position correctly and remove assumptions I have not accepted from your question, and then we can proceed.

You also misquoted yourself. The question was not whether Trump should be trusted with the nuclear codes. Please pay attention.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: You also misquoted yourself. The question was not whether Trump should be trusted with the nuclear codes. Please pay attention.

The question posed was: ¨Do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear code¨
This is not a loaded question. I did not pose this question to trap or manipulate anyone. I am interested in what Americans think.

I asked if you believed he was a narcissist and you replied 
´I do not characterize people by labels. If your question is whether I think that Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him, then yes, it seems likely to me.´ 

You stated that you think Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him. And you believed it was a narcissistic trait.

My question to you is Do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear code?

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: There is nothing showing me that he cant be trusted with nuclear codes. In fact there are 4 years he was president that shows I shouldnt be worried about it.

@Michael_Elpers

Have you read the very credible Foreign Policy article on Trump? 

MayCaesar

Delilah6120 said:

The question posed was: ¨Do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear code¨
This is not a loaded question. I did not pose this question to trap or manipulate anyone. I am interested in what Americans think.

I asked if you believed he was a narcissist and you replied 
´I do not characterize people by labels. If your question is whether I think that Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him, then yes, it seems likely to me.´ 

You stated that you think Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him. And you believed it was a narcissistic trait.

My question to you is Do you believe Trump has the strength of character to be trusted with the nuclear code?

Where did I express the belief that it is a narcissistic trait? Please provide the exact quote where I suggested so.

I said earlier that I believed that Trump had a very strong character. Whether it is strong enough to be trusted with the nuclear codes, I do not know, for I do not have a standard in mind for what makes one worth trusting with the nuclear codes. I would not trust myself with the nuclear codes, for simply having the ability to kill millions of people at a whim would affect me in unacceptable ways.

Delilah6120

@MayCaesar
You´re not someone I care to debate with. I don´t trust you. You sound like a gaslighter and I question YOUR character.  Is this your professional job? It´s psychological abuse. 

Factfinder

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar
You´re not someone I care to debate with. I don´t trust you. You sound like a gaslighter and I question YOUR character.  Is this your professional job? It´s psychological abuse. 

I've found @MayCaesar to provide some of the most well thought out opinions on this site. Gas lighting isn't what he does. That's been my experience.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: I said earlier that I believed that Trump had a very strong character. Whether it is strong enough to be trusted with the nuclear codes, I do not know,

@MayCaesar
I do apologize for misinterpreting your intentions.It´s hard to trust anyone on the internet these days.
Then am I correct in saying that you believe that Trump has little regard for the well being of those around him? If so, then I am confused because what you are saying is that Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him but you´re still unsure if you would trust him with the nuclear codes.
So be it.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: There is nothing showing me that he cant be trusted with nuclear codes. In fact there are 4 years he was president that shows I shouldnt be worried about it.

@Michael_Elpers

I am not sure if you got my post.  But have you had a chance to read the article I sent on Trump´s foreign policy?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/05/trumps-final-foreign-policy-report-card/

MayCaesar

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar
I do apologize for misinterpreting your intentions.It´s hard to trust anyone on the internet these days.
Then am I correct in saying that you believe that Trump has little regard for the well being of those around him? If so, then I am confused because what you are saying is that Trump has little regard for the well-being of those around him but you´re still unsure if you would trust him with the nuclear codes.
So be it.

No offense taken.

I would say that it is likely that he has little regard for the well-being of those around him. But this is a separate matter from whether he has the strength of character required for something. Which, in turn, is a separate matter from whether I would trust him with the nuclear codes - which has not been discussed at all. 
If it were up to me, the president would not have access to those. Something as drastic as launching nuclear missiles should require approval of a large number of capable officials.
But I also do not think that this is a very important part of the package when choosing the president. Objectively speaking, the probability of the next US president launching nukes is negligibly small.

just_sayin

Factfinder said:

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar
You´re not someone I care to debate with. I don´t trust you. You sound like a gaslighter and I question YOUR character.  Is this your professional job? It´s psychological abuse. 

I've found @MayCaesar to provide some of the most well thought out opinions on this site. Gas lighting isn't what he does. That's been my experience.

I've found him to ignore evidence that didn't fit his argument and deny its existence.  I've seen him appeal to himself as an authority in math and science, when it was evident he was not an expert.  

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: There is nothing showing me that he cant be trusted with nuclear codes. In fact there are 4 years he was president that shows I shouldnt be worried about it.

@MayCaesar @Michael_Elpers
It seems that you both are missing an important element here. One appears to believe trump responsible enough to be trusted with American lives because there were no wars under him, the other appears you believe Trump to be a strong leader who never caves in the face of adversity. This on the surface may seem like a desirable and admirable quality to have as leader especially if a citizen is getting his/her own needs met by a demagogue, but knowingly ignores his evils. It´s not strength that Trump is displaying and it´s certainly not concern for democracy or American citizens. It is FEAR. Fear of humiliation. Fear of failure. Fear of losing. Fear of rejection. Fear of abandonment. Fear of being discovered as a fraud. All traits that narcissists display. His strength is not strength of character. Trump´s character strength is merely a most basic, primal instinct to protect himself under ALL circumstances. That is his strength.  It is his narcissism that disqualifies him from being leader of the free world. Frankly both MayCaesar and Michael Elpers have not made ANY credible case that Trump should have access to the nuclear codes. I asked Michael Elpers to read a credible and fascinating article on Trump. As of yet, I have not heard back. I would like both to read that article.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/05/trumps-final-foreign-policy-report-card/

And for anyone else who cares to prove that Trump has Americans´ backs.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: No offense taken. ;)

@MayCaesar

The question I posed was a little open ended. How about if I asked Do you believe Trump can be trusted to put America and its citizens before his own needs?

Barnardot

@Delilah6120 The thing is that Trump has the strength of character and ability to lead a nation but to be trusted with nuclear codes is an other thing. And any way when you come to analize the hole thing in the end pushing the button and nuclear codes is just a myth any way that people get from Hollywood movies. When the time comes to decide weather to nuke some one there is a hole heap of hoops to go through on many levels so the President resiting the code and banging a big red button like on a game show just isn’t going to happen.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: The thing is that Trump has the strength of character and ability

@Barnardot

Admittedly, the question posed was silly. Here is the alternate question - would be interested in your comments along with examples of proof.
Do you believe Trump can be trusted to put America and its citizens BEFORE his own needs?

MayCaesar

Delilah6120 said:

One appears to believe trump responsible enough to be trusted with American lives because there were no wars under him, the other appears you believe Trump to be a strong leader who never caves in the face of adversity.

I am genuinely puzzled as to which of the two I am supposed to be...

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar

The question I posed was a little open ended. How about if I asked Do you believe Trump can be trusted to put America and its citizens before his own needs?

No. I think that the idea of someone putting the interests of the country before his own is naive and unrealistic.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: No. I think that the idea of someone putting the interests of the country before his own is naive and unrealistic.

@MayCaesar

For clarity - Please answer with Yes. or No.

Do you believe Trump can be trusted to put America and its citizens before his own needs?

MayCaesar

@Delilah6120

"No" is literally the first sentence I wrote in response to your question. Why are you so combative in this conversation?

And please do clarify which of the two I am supposed to be.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: "No" is literally the first sentence I wrote in response to your question. Why are you so combative in this conversation?

Sorry. I´m not trying to be combative. I thought your answer was a bit evasive as you followed your reasoning of Trump not being trustworthy as POTUS  with because he´s naive and unrealistic. Just not words I´d attach to a man so deeply flawed - naive and unrealistic is kind. Thanks for clarifying with what I´ll take now as a resounding No.

MayCaesar

@Delilah6120

I did not say that Trump was naive and unrealistic. Please put some effort into reading my arguments before replying.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: I did not say that Trump was naive and unrealistic. Please put some effort into reading my arguments before replying.

@MayCaesar

Misinterpretation. Your communication to me seems vague and evasive. 

Could be my need to ensure Trump won´t win in November. God help us if he does.

Factfinder

@Delilah6120

Misinterpretation. Your communication to me seems vague and evasive. 

How is ones misinterpretation of another's remark the fault of the one who authored the remark? Especially when the statement was precise and direct. "I think that the idea of someone putting the interests of the country before his own is naive and unrealistic." There is simply nothing evasive about that statement.

As for your topic I've been trying to gather my thoughts on that as it (your topic) appears to have evolved somewhat. The Trump presidency did not produce the doom and gloom that the left had predicted back then. Indeed the working class experienced more rewards financially. And let's not kid ourselves, that is the most important thing, to be able to provide not just food and shelter, but a life for our families. Is Trumps character good? Don't know personally but where media reports are concerned I see no difference in character between him and the current Potus. It takes a certain amount of narcissism to even want to be president.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: How is ones misinterpretation of another's remark the fault of the one who authored the remark?

@Factfinder.

Who said it was anyone´s fault? That´s how democracy works. I misinterpreted. If you need, I can be the loser. It´s called negotiation, compromising. It´s not a zero-sum comfort. Life is messy.
It seems we get our news from different sources and we have different ideologies.
Peace to you.

Factfinder

Delilah6120 said:

@Factfinder.

Who said it was anyone´s fault? That´s how democracy works. I misinterpreted. If you need, I can be the loser. It´s called negotiation, compromising. It´s not a zero-sum comfort. Life is messy.
It seems we get our news from different sources and we have different ideologies.
Peace to you.

You did when you blamed your misinterpretation on an imagined evasive remark that wasn't evasive. It's about reality not a fabricated need for a loser.

 

MayCaesar

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar

Misinterpretation. Your communication to me seems vague and evasive. 

Could be my need to ensure Trump won´t win in November. God help us if he does.

You are doing yourself a major disservice by putting a political need ahead of personal integrity and happiness. Suppose Trump does get elected in November - what then? If Trump winning in itself makes your life noticeably worse, then you have conditioned your happiness on very shaky things.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: You are doing yourself a major disservice by putting a political need ahead of personal integrity and happiness. Suppose Trump does get elected in November - what then? If Trump winning in itself makes your life noticeably worse, then you have conditioned your happiness on very shaky things.

@MayCaesar

He won´t. But I am preparing myself just in case. I worry about the future generations. I worry about his propensity for power and authoritarianism and what my kids lives (in their 40s) and their children´s lives will be like. I am not putting a personal need of mine ahead of personal integrity and happiness. I am fighting for the freedoms of the future generation. Peace to you 

Factfinder

Delilah6120 said:

@MayCaesar

He won´t. But I am preparing myself just in case. I worry about the future generations. I worry about his propensity for power and authoritarianism and what my kids lives (in their 40s) and their children´s lives will be like. I am not putting a personal need of mine ahead of personal integrity and happiness. I am fighting for the freedoms of the future generation. Peace to you 

You do realize you come off a fanatic, right? 

Delilah6120

@Factfinder

If you call being concerned about future Americans, fanatical, then yes, I am fanatical and human.

Barnardot

@Delilah6120 ;Do you believe Trump can be trusted to put America and its citizens BEFORE his own needs?

Well by the same token that question is just as silly since looking after your own needs is the first priority for every one.

Delilah6120

Please read this. It will hurt. You must understand that Trump was simply transactional with no regard for the future. but much regard for himself. And had it not been for a few, worried but stable cabinet members (Kelly, Mattis, Milley) we could possibly be at war. And yet to be known is if Trump divulged classified information. Remember the boxes of classified information that he kept at Mar-a-Lago?

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/01/05/trumps-final-foreign-policy-report-card/

Exerpt:

¨Last but by no means least, Trump’s handling of foreign policy succumbed to his own defects of character. His genius for self-promotion and remarkable ability to defy existing norms could not overcome his ignorance of most areas of policy, distrust of genuine expertise, short attention span, incorrigible dishonesty, and inability to place the national interest ahead of his own need for attention and adulation. Qualities that had sometimes worked in his up-and-down business career, in reality TV, and even on the campaign trail proved wholly unsuited to the tasks of governing, especially in the unforgiving world of foreign policy. In the end, even America’s many remaining advantages could not make up for Trump’s innate incompetence.¨

Barnardot

@Delilah6120 ;Please read this. It will hurt.

I did read it and it didn’t hurt because it is all a load of extreme biased crap taken from a site that is besotted with being anti Trump. It is not a reliable and truthful sauce at all and has nothing at all to do with reliable descent journalism.

Delilah6120

Argument Topic: I did read it and it didn´t hurt

@Barnardot

Thanks for reading. Hmmmmm it is actually rated factual with the least bias.
I am interested in why you believe it is ¨a load of extreme biased crap taken from a site that is besotted with being anti Trump¨. Where is your evidence that it is not a reliable and truthful site ??

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foreign-policy/

You´re going to have to do better than just stating this.

Delilah6120

To those who´ve read the foreign policy article on trump. You cannot blindly state that it is not credible. You have to do better. If you do not post evidence that the article is biased and anti trump, then you have no credibility.