Saved from death in Hell by grace through faith (alone) or by faith + works?

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Did Ark building save Noah or did Noah build the Ark because Noah was saved by Faith?

Here we have a Christian troglodyte asserting a leading question in order to bring about a false conclusion. Common for the low iq and ignorant. But you see ricky the question could just as easily been framed this way: Would Noah have been saved had he not built the ark? Answer, no. Thus the bible lies where it says faith alone saves as it's real message is faith plus works. And it calls faith without works "dead". 

James 2:20 & 24: But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

RickeyHoltsclaw

There is no other Way to find life and purpose and sustainability but through faith in Jesus.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

There is no other Way to find life and purpose and sustainability but through faith in Jesus.

No thought, no rationale, no brain activity what so ever. Just the bible says... "You better not pout, you better not shout, you better not cry I'm telling you why,  Santa Clause is coming to town... so you better be good for goodness sake..."  

RickeyHoltsclaw

No one is saved from death in Hell by what they "do" but in "Whom" they believe and trust.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

No one is saved from death in Hell by what they "do" but in "Whom" they believe and trust.

Right. Faith plus works. Yes or no, would Noah have been saved if he didn't build the ark?

RickeyHoltsclaw

There is no other Way for a man or woman or trans or atheist or secular humanist or democrat or progressive to be saved from the "second death" in Hell but by faith in Jesus as Messiah.

Factfinder

@RickeyHoltsclaw

There is no other Way for a man or woman or trans or atheist or secular humanist or democrat or progressive to be saved from the "second death" in Hell but by faith in Jesus as Messiah.

You left out some groups like godless Christians, theists and conservatives, why? 

If Noah didn't build the arc would he still be saved? He believed it would rain. Do you blame god for your ignorance?

RickeyHoltsclaw

If one denies Jesus, they deny the Father, they deny LIFE and TRUTH and HOPE...trust in Jesus as Messiah, receive the Holy Spirit and find life and peace and meaning both in Time and in Eternity; this, by faith in Jesus as your Messiah.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Is It True?

@RickeyHoltsclaw
Did the doctor slap your mother when you were born?

MichaelElpers

@RickeyHoltsclaw

"If you confess and believe" 

Isnt confessing an act.

Also works of the law are referring to the old covennant Jewish practices.

It is true that human actions cannot save but neither can faith alone.

Corinthians: "So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love"

If faith alone, saves why would love be the greatest?  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MichaelElpers

1) Belief - faith is a mental assent to the Truth of Scripture, it's not work....confession with the mouth publicly is simply a demonstration of the faith that has manifest through a mental assent to Truth. There is NOTHING you can do to save yourself or prove your worth to the Father but to humble yourself and accept the imputation-gifting of Messiah's righteousness earned for you at Golgotha.

2) Works of the law also refers to anything one does to "earn" their righteousness (right standing) before Elohim and NO ONE is justified by works.

3) Faith, alone, saves the soul from Hell....anything other than faith (noun) in Jesus will not be received by the Father as engendering New Covenant relationship; in fact, your works prior to salvation by faith are considered a "filthy garment" in the nose of Elohim, the Father; literally, in the Hebrew, a "bloody menstrual cloth." Isaiah 64:6

4) Love is a product of, a divine "fruit" of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) who is given to all who believe - place their "faith" in Jesus as Messiah (Ephesians 1:13-14). Love is the product of faith, not causative.

5) It is the one who "believes" in Jesus that is justified before the Father, not one who works for justification.

 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

If one denies Jesus, they deny the Father, they deny LIFE and TRUTH and HOPE...trust in Jesus as Messiah, receive the Holy Spirit and find life and peace and meaning both in Time and in Eternity; this, by faith in Jesus as your Messiah.

If Noah didn't build the arc would he still have been saved? I don't see any evidence of 'peace' bestowed upon you. You're an angry bitter self willed ignorant theist.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  At least I know my Creator, trust in Him fully and love Him more than life itself...unlike a vile infanticide, sexually perverse, advocating atheist who boos God and support Satan in Hamas.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  At least I know my Creator, trust in Him fully and love Him more than life itself...unlike a vile infanticide, sexually perverse, advocating atheist who boos God and support Satan in Hamas.

In your delusional state maybe but in reality you think a fairy elf created you and know nothing. Vile infanticide, sexually perverse, advocating Christians who boos intelligence and support Satan in Hamas has no place in our country perverting the American way we built. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Atheism did not build America, Jesus and faith and patriots built America...you and your vile ilk are tearing down the essential pillars of our Constitutional Republic; this, because you're selfish, arrogant, demonic filth.

MichaelElpers

@RickeyHoltsclaw

You can remove scripture from context all you want and post single versus.

Works of the law are specifically refering to those of the old testament.

Faith, alone, saves the soul from Hell«

Ah so I guess, grace, Jesus death and ressurectuon the Holy Spirit arent required.  Just faith alone.

Also when did i say love is causitive to faith?  Even if it is a divine fruit of faith it doesnt mean its not needed. Gods grace is required to have faith but that doesnt mean grace alone is required for salvation.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Atheism did not build America, Jesus and faith and patriots built America...you and your vile ilk are tearing down the essential pillars of our Constitutional Republic; this, because you're selfish, arrogant, demonic filth.

Sure it did. Atheism built America while theism languished in self willed ignorance. Come on you prove that with every post on purpose to blindly please your perverse evil god. You know it but you're afraid to say so aloud because you fear your god will reject your feigned faith. He knows, you're going to burn cause you chose bad.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MichaelElpers

Faith in Jesus as Messiah saves the soul from Hell; that is, believing, trusting, in what Jesus did for us at Golgotha through the shedding of His innocent blood for our sin is what the Father requires for initiation of New Covenant promise with Him, forever (John 3). The Father's will IS that we believe in the Son whom He has sent (John 6:29).

Elohim's grace (unmerited favor unattainable through human effort) is what make faith acceptable as the initiator of New Covenant promise (Hebrews 11:6)...the Father was/is not required to provide humanity any form of escape from death in Hell due our sin but out of love and mercy and eschatological imperatives, the Father provides grace and tells us that whoever "believes" in His only begotten Son will receive a pardon from judgment concerning sin and death and Hell (John 3:16).

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Atheists, prior to demonic WOKENESS, were shunned in American society...they were seen as misfits...evil internalized...mentally ill - cognitively...spiritually ill by choice.

MichaelElpers

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Youre posting things as arguments that i never disagreed with.

You said faith alone.  So i showed other things that require salvation, like love.
Then you said love is a causation of faith.  So i pointed out faith is a causation of Gods grace.

I never said grace is merited. Faith must at the very least be accepted by the believer.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MichaelElpers ; "love" on the part of human kind has no bearing in salvation...it is only the "love" of Elohim that makes salvation possible. Love is an attribute of the Spirit's work in one's life SUBSEQUENT salvation (Galatians 5:22-23)...but you cannot "love" yourself or love others into the Kingdom of Elohim...you must first accept the "love" of Elohim through faith in the Son then true love, both agape and phileo, are truly possible as a divine gift of the Spirit working through the redeemed in Jesus.

Elohim provides every human being sufficient "faith" to know Him and honor Him through the Son; in fact, Elohim desires that all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth; unfortunately, only a relative "few" will accept the invitation.

Faith, alone, in Jesus is KEY to the Father's heart...there is absolutely NOTHING you can do in and of yourself to save yourself from Hell via the initiation of covenant with the Father...you must first TRUST in the Son, Jesus, as your Messiah who died for you.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Atheists, prior to demonic WOKENESS, were shunned in American society...they were seen as misfits...evil internalized...mentally ill - cognitively...spiritually ill by choice.

Of course no one knew if someone was an atheist unless cornered and asked because Christians historically and presently display the same symptoms; "misfits...evil internalized...mentally ill - cognitively...spiritually ill" far more prominently. So to get a job or hold office people would lie so they could get paid and they didn't want to be discriminated against or burn at the stake for pointing out the stupidity of christianity back then.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Well, that's certainly enlightening...so you're saying America is a Nation of atheists?

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  Well, that's certainly enlightening...so you're saying America is a Nation of atheists?

Of course. Everyone is atheist toward all religious gods; though some like in your case is atheist to all gods but the elf god of the bible. Others chose a Hindu god or Greek or Egyptian and so on. And still a whole lot just remain atheist to all of them. Point is atheism abounds even within the people who profess a faith; they're still an atheist where other gods are concerned. So atheistic opinions by far outnumber theistic opinions and that's why the American way exist. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Atheism is a religion defined by its rejection of all gods; therefore, you can't be "atheistic" toward a god or gods and accept another....that's contrary to what atheism purports as its tenet of faith.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Atheism is a religion defined by its rejection of all gods; therefore, you can't be "atheistic" toward a god or gods and accept another....that's contrary to what atheism purports as its tenet of faith.

For our purposes relating atheistic opinion you have those toward other gods, that's a fact. Atheism is the rejection of mythical gods due to unbelief that is true but it applies where ever gods are being rejected because that's ALL atheism is, rejecting gods as myth. You reject gods as myth, you harbor unbelief in them same sense as I. I just include yours as well. That's why our country is great. We reject a state sponsored church so rational thinking can prevail.  

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; It does not matter what YOU include but what is true. Discerning between the true God and mythical man-made gods has nothing to do with the cultic religion of atheism but of wisdom and discernment and study and faith.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; It does not matter what YOU include but what is true. Discerning between the true God and mythical man-made gods has nothing to do with the cultic religion of atheism but of wisdom and discernment and study and faith.

I included truth and that disturbs your faith. You exhibit atheistic opinions towards all gods but yours even though it's as much mythical as the others you say are. You can't claim discernment when you publically before all membership already admitted you don't use that.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; You don't possess Truth but you are possessed by the demonic and influenced to such an extent that you're lost and blind and deaf and without hope in your arrogance and narcissism via atheism. Jesus as your Messiah is your only Hope.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1 (ESV)

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; You don't possess Truth but you are possessed by the demonic and influenced to such an extent that you're lost and blind and deaf and without hope in your arrogance and narcissism via atheism. Jesus as your Messiah is your only Hope.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1 (ESV)

Those verses are about you. See if you didn't believe in fairytales then you wouldn't play the part of such a fool.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; If you believed in Jesus as your Messiah, you would not be the devil's fool.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; If you believed in Jesus as your Messiah, you would not be the devil's fool.

If you believed in Aphrodite as your Messiah, you would not be the devil's fool.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Prove it. Let me see the writings of Aphrodite? Prove this.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  Prove it. Let me see the writings of Aphrodite? Prove this.

Prove it. Let me see the writings of the elf god. PROVE this.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Here is one...do you believe what is written?

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Here is one...do you believe what is written?

Not without evidence. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Seeing that your eternity depends upon it...why not disprove it as opposed to being a child in a tantrum?

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;  Seeing that your eternity depends upon it...why not disprove it as opposed to being a child in a tantrum?

I did prove you wrong. Why lie and call my domination of you a tantrum? I can't help it you're not man enough to back up what you say. All you do is point to contradictory verses in the bible you don't understand and then you lie and pretend the verses you say and right and the true verse you claim to be errors in the word of god because of some but not all translations.

James 2:20 & 24: But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; No one is saved by works...James understood this and spoke of the works that follow valid saving faith. If you were to study and receive the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus....you would know this and be headed to death in atheistic foolishness.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; No one is saved by works...James understood this and spoke of the works that follow valid saving faith. If you were to study and receive the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus....you would know this and be headed to death in atheistic foolishness.

Yes or no. Would Noah have been saved if he didn't build the arc.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; Noah's soul was secure by faith but Noah and his family would have perished in the flood and the creation narrative concerning Day-6 would have needed to be repeated if Elohim was to pursue the defeat of Satan via the Gospel via Messiah, a battle strategy ordained before Time began; this, lest Elohim secured and protected Noah and his family through the flood.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; Noah's soul was secure by faith but Noah and his family would have perished in the flood and the creation narrative concerning Day-6 would have needed to be repeated if Elohim was to pursue the defeat of Satan via the Gospel via Messiah, a battle strategy ordained before Time began; this, lest Elohim secured and protected Noah and his family through the flood.

Bull crap. Yes or no. Would Noah be saved if he didn't build the arc? Simple question. Childish special pleading just displays your ignorant cowardness. God could have built the arc.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I answered your question but you cannot accept because you're dead spiritually and headed to death in Hell in your foolish atheism.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. Hebrews 11

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I answered your question but you cannot accept because you're dead spiritually and headed to death in Hell in your foolish atheism.

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. Hebrews 11

No you haven't. Your preaching bible verses. You didn't type in a yes or no answer. 

Yes or no. No qualifying statements are necessary or wanted at this point. That can come later. Right now yes or no, would Noah be saved if he didn't build the arc?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; I say again, YES...Noah was secure in covenant with Elohim as a result of his faith.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; I say again, YES...Noah was secure in covenant with Elohim as a result of his faith.

Your bible says the opposite.

Faith Without Works Is Dead James 2:14-26

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; What James is teaching is that faith (noun) in Jesus that saves the soul from Hell will manifest in faith (verb) that honors the indwelling Holy Spirit given to all who believe in Jesus as Messiah as the Spirit is the Guarantor of New Covenant relationship with the Father (Ephesians 1:13-14) and it is the Spirit who then takes custody of the redeemed conscience and the law written upon the heart of those who trust in Jesus and the Spirit then begins a good work in their life by producing divine "fruits of the Spirit" through the faithful in Jesus and these works of Spirit subsequently glorify the Father and validate saving faith (noun) as valid faith that is sincere, authentic, everlasting in covenant...faith (noun) that has engendered New Covenant relationship with the Father and this faith is witnessed to the World through the "fruit" produced in the life of the Christian.

James is NOT teaching a works salvation but that those who are saved will produce works that honor the Father.

Jesus said:

I Am the True Vine

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 ***********************By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; What James is teaching is that faith (noun) in Jesus that saves the soul from Hell will manifest in faith (verb) that honors the indwelling Holy Spirit given to all who believe in Jesus as Messiah as the Spirit is the Guarantor of New Covenant relationship with the Father (Ephesians 1:13-14) and it is the Spirit who then takes custody of the redeemed conscience and the law written upon the heart of those who trust in Jesus and the Spirit then begins a good work in their life by producing divine "fruits of the Spirit" through the faithful in Jesus and these works of Spirit subsequently glorify the Father and validate saving faith (noun) as valid faith that is sincere, authentic, everlasting in covenant...faith (noun) that has engendered New Covenant relationship with the Father and this faith is witnessed to the World through the "fruit" produced in the life of the Christian.

James is NOT teaching a works salvation but that those who are saved will produce works that honor the Father.

Jesus said:

I Am the True Vine

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 ***********************By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.

James is teaching that if your faith is genuine and sincere, meaning you've totally given yourself to Christ and held back nothing for yourself, then that faith will produce works. The verses you used in John 15 supports that. If not then you don't have faith. it's dead. That's what it's teaching you. Even your verses tell you " By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. James the brother of Christ understood this completely so he intended to make it crystal clear, the noun faith, acknowledgment, isn't solidified without it producing the verb faith, action that solidifies the nominal faith. Even if the noun faith is genuine, it doesn't mean it will produce works of Christ but it will produce works however misguided they could be at times. This is because we are not perfect but the nominal faith will produce action of some kind.  As you know...

1 Corinthians 3:15: If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The branches in john that you posted represent those who declared faith but it was insincere so they couldn't produce fruit thus are cut off and burned.

In all three scenarios works were and according to your bible, are the codified doctrine in the faith plus works prospect of the concept of saving grace. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;

1) 1 Corinthians 3:15 references the BEMA Judgment of the "believer in Jesus," not the World, not those who have never entered into a Covenant of Faith, the New Covenant, through faith in Jesus as Messiah. 1 Corinthians 3 has NOTHING to do with salvation as this BEMA Judgment of Messiah is manifest to test the works of the saved while they were constrained by the Realm of Time on Earth; this, "subsequent to salvation" and a believer's works are tested for authenticity as to whether or not they were done-performed through the Spirit or through the flesh for selfish and narcissistic reasons. Those works done through the Spirit will receive reward and those done in the flesh will be "burned up" as if by fire...the dross - the impurities will be made manifest through testing. 1 Corinthians 3:15 involves believers only.

2) Those branches that do not produce fruit and are burned are the the unsaved - the unfaithful - the fake "Christian"...Jesus spoke of these in Matthew 7:21-23 which concerns works performed without first establishing covenant relationship by faith in Jesus; hence, "I never knew you." This has nothing to do with true believers.

In NONE of the scenarios you mention is a works salvation relevant...

True saving faith (noun) will produce fruit from the Spirit that glorifies the Father but this fruit is produced "subsequent" salvation by faith and is the result of same, but that fruit does not justify anyone before the Father prior to salvation by faith in Messiah, alone, as any works prior to salvation are interpreted by the Father as a "filthy garment" or "bloody menstrual cloth" in His nose (Isaiah 64:6).

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ;

1) 1 Corinthians 3:15 references the BEMA Judgment of the "believer in Jesus," not the World, not those who have never entered into a Covenant of Faith, the New Covenant, through faith in Jesus as Messiah. 1 Corinthians 3 has NOTHING to do with salvation as this BEMA Judgment of Messiah is manifest to test the works of the saved while they were constrained by the Realm of Time on Earth; this, "subsequent to salvation" and a believer's works are tested for authenticity as to whether or not they were done-performed through the Spirit or through the flesh for selfish and narcissistic reasons. Those works done through the Spirit will receive reward and those done in the flesh will be "burned up" as if by fire...the dross - the impurities will be made manifest through testing. 1 Corinthians 3:15 involves believers only.

2) Those branches that do not produce fruit and are burned are the the unsaved - the unfaithful - the fake "Christian"...Jesus spoke of these in Matthew 7:21-23 which concerns works performed without first establishing covenant relationship by faith in Jesus; hence, "I never knew you." This has nothing to do with true believers.

In NONE of the scenarios you mention is a works salvation relevant...

True saving faith (noun) will produce fruit from the Spirit that glorifies the Father but this fruit is produced "subsequent" salvation by faith and is the result of same, but that fruit does not justify anyone before the Father prior to salvation by faith in Messiah, alone, as any works prior to salvation are interpreted by the Father as a "filthy garment" or "bloody menstrual cloth" in His nose (Isaiah 64:6).

1. I know that but there was a profound reason for the author to distinguish what saved his soul and what didn't. That does have to do with salvation. Though the works are rejected during BEMA his faith was genuine enough to produces acts on behalf of faith which is why the subject was there in the first place.

2. Of course they are the unsaved as scripture says. But god broke them off and burned them because they did not produce fruit as they should while attached...

 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 

Faith plus works is the only way.