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Thoughts on climate change?

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  • DreamerDreamer 272 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: Climate change is urgent.


    Judith Curry repeats the myth #108 that climate change is not urgent.
  • just_sayinjust_sayin 963 Pts   -  
    @Dreamer

    Do you recognize the extremism of many climate change advocates who want to impose costly measures, largely on poor people, which will have no measurable change in the environment?  I'm mentioned that if we had 0 CO2 emissions in the world today that there would be a negligible decrease in the estimated 2.5-5.5 degree Celsius increase by 2100.  See Heritage article

    In fact, the U.S. could cut its carbon dioxide emissions 100 percent and it would not make a difference in abating global warming.
    Using the same climate sensitivity (the warming effect of a doubling of carbon dioxide emissions) as the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change assumes in its modeling, the world would be only 0.137 degree Celsius cooler by 2100. Even if we assumed every other industrialized country would be equally on board, this would merely avert warming by 0.278 degree Celsius by the turn of the century.  

    Many climate change extremists want poor people to have to spend $20,000 more to buy an EV car.  They want to end coal powered energy plants before they are scheduled to do so - increasing energy and transportation costs - with several estimates putting the economic impact at 20 percent of the take home pay of the lowest quintile of workers.  

    Germany's transition to clean energy and action of stopping nuclear power has resulted in electric bills that are almost $1,000 more per year for the average German household.  

    I would argue that the denial of economic impacts of climate change extremism is not only larger, but significantly more dangerous, than climate change denial.  
  • DreamerDreamer 272 Pts   -  
    Argument Topic: The Hertiage foundation is right bias almost extreme. Known for blocking climate change action.


    "The Heritage Foundation has been criticized for taking positions that are favorable to the tobacco industry as well as for blocking action on climate change."


    As for Judith Curry her statements are too vague just for starters.


    I don't know if that is true that skeptics want poor people to buy an electric vehicle for 20k. I find it more likely that they want more electric vehicles on the market driving down the price. A poor person would find a used electric vehicle more affordable.

    Coal costs more money in healthcare costs and lost productivity. Pollution is localized and poor people would benefit more because pollution tends to be concentrated in under-served communities. Solar is the cheapest form of energy. 5.9 trillion in fossil fuel subsides in 2020 drive down the price artificially.

     You are also omitting that carbon is a pollutant that future generations will have to deal with that should have a cost of $100 a ton.

    Your last sentence is an extreme opinion with no facts as backup.


  • just_sayinjust_sayin 963 Pts   -   edited August 2023
    @Dreamer

    The Heritage Foundation has been criticized for taking positions that are favorable to the tobacco industry as well as for blocking action on climate change."
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/heritage-foundation/
    As for Judith Curry her statements are too vague just for starters.
    https://skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Judith_Curry.htm


    OMG!  You dismiss something in Heritage because they opposed tax increases on vaping?  Really?  Are you really that much of an extremist?  Please tell me you posted this without reading it first.  I'll think much more of you if that is the case. 

    The information about how much the climate will abate in the anticipated increases in global temperature by 2100 is based on a tool from the UN (You can even Google it and use a version of it yourself).  This is the same source of data that the Kyoto protocol is based on.  You think this is whack science?  What does that say for the UN and the Kyoto Protocol then?

    The guy who made the calculations for the article has testified before Congress on climate change over half a dozen times that I am aware of.  Do you think quacks testify multiple times before congress on expert climate predictions and are asked by Democrats and Republicans alike to offer data and solutions?  There seems to be this huge disconnect where you claim you want to be science based, but you seem to reject out of hand any science you don't like or where the information came from.  

    Solar is the cheapest form of energy. 5.9 trillion in fossil fuel subsides in 2020 drive down the price artificially.

    You get that solar is highly subsidized right?  The US needs four petawatt hours annually, meaning 13,600,000 acres/ 21,250 square miles or panels (Nussey, 2018).  That would be for 100 percent solar, but that would not include updates to the grid nor account for the influx of EV cars, and it assumes these 21,250 square miles are in direct or mostly direct sun all day long.  If you think I'm wrong, go look it up for yourself.  I think you have vastly underestimated the costs of solar and the logistical problems, and I haven't even touched on the problem about storing solar energy yet. 

    You are also omitting that carbon is a pollutant that future generations will have to deal with that should have a cost of $100 a ton.

    A cost to whom and how?  What is your source?  

    Your last sentence is an extreme opinion with no facts as backup.

    Since 0  CO2 emissions on the entire planet would only reduce the anticipated increase by about .2 degree Celsius by 2100, any single individual's actions and behavioal impact the climate by incredibly small and imperceptible amounts.   But the type of imposed actions you suggest will indeed affect poor people significantly. Now I don't claim to be as good at math as you, but if energy and transportation costs and anything that needs energy and transportation, increases, as it it predicted to do, and eats up 20% of the lowest quintile's take home pay, I'm guessing they will have 20% less money to spend on, well, anything.   
  • BoganBogan 451 Pts   -  
    Sock it to him, just sayin.
  • DreamerDreamer 272 Pts   -   edited August 2023
    Argument Topic: Solar is the cheapest form of electricity.

    I am not saying I understand every detail. But, it has been going around on websites that are mostly trustworthy that solar is the cheapest form of energy.


    More and more it has become clear you are an ideological extremist. I remember you brought up a large list of how liberals are anti-science. One of which was that human life begins at conception. I have given up all hope of changing your mind.


     I need a break from all this debunking. Clearly, you can gish gallop faster than I can debunk. There is no way to keep up without exhausting myself.

  • BarnardotBarnardot 538 Pts   -   edited August 2023
    @Bogan ;Parts of the Great Barrier Reef have recorded their highest amount of coral cover

    But the entire of the reef has been destroyed by 50% in less than 40 years. Can you explain what on earth you are trying to mean.

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