It will be a war of annihilation. It will be a momentous massacre in history that will be talked about like the massacres of the Mongols or the crusades." Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League. October 11, 1947.

'Allah wiling, the moment will come when their property will be destroyed and their sons annihilated, until not a single Jew is left on the face of the earth. HAMAS sermon at the Al Aqsa TV April 3, 2009.

"HAMAS would definitely not be prepared to co exist with Israel even if the Zionists returned to their pre 1969 borders." HAMAS leader Mahmoud al-Zahar.

@ZeusAres42

Yes I know which is why I posted it up as a possible solution , no one on here is attempting to offer one.

It's also far from the complete story as Ireland is building a case against Israel ...

Joeseph said:

@ZeusAres42

Yes I know which is why I posted it up as a possible solution , no one on here is attempting to offer one.

It's also far from the complete story as Ireland is building a case against Israel ...

Ireland will be intervening.

“It is for the court to determine whether genocide is being committed.

"But I want to be clear in reiterating what I have said many times in the last few months; what we saw on 7 October in Israel, and what we are seeing in Gaza now, represents the blatant violation of international humanitarian law on a mass scale.

"It has to stop. The view of the international community is clear. Enough is enough."

That's a statement from our Tánaiste Micheál Martin.

I don't get what point you're trying to make about Hamas, if Hamas are deemed " terrorist" why aren't the state of Israel also deemed " terrorist"?

How is carpet bombing a country under the ridiculous pretence of going after Hamas not an act of terrorism?

It seems anything that's deemed "legl"by a  state with influence is not terrorism. People are still actually pretending that 38,000 men women and children slaughtered by Israeli forces and 79, 000 injured is necessary to achieve the utterly ridiculous pretend goal of getting Hamas.

The cognitive dissonance is staggering.

Not one person on here can explain why the IRA campaigns were wrong but the British occupation of Ireland and brutalistion of the Irish was right or as I recently asked why was dropping two atomic bombs on Japan morally right and not an act of terrorism?

No one on here will explain the difference all just go silent and sound exactly like religious individuals who at least cite god as their excuse.

If it boils down to a purely moral position then we can see that the prevailing moral postion of those participating  are categories of emotivism.

I find Ireland's position reasonable and respectable. It is clear that Ireland does not condone the war crimes comitted by Israel. At the same time it is also clear that they not condone the actions of Hamas which they also recognize as a terrororist group. This is a reasonable and respectable stance to me. 

What is not reasonable to me is either the justificaion of interantional war crimes, nor the support for an internationally recognize terrororis organisation. 

@Bogan

Well, I could explain it to you.

No you couldn't 


  , But since you can not debate without frothing at the mouth and hurling insults all over the place, then you ae not worth debating with.    

Thats not true i, n fact the last time I tried to communicate with you your best reponse was " you're a queer a terrorist and a leftist", I will engage respectfully  if I'm given the same respect this unfortunately rarely happens and never witn you as most members will agree.

Joeseph said:

@Bogan




  , But since you can not debate without frothing at the mouth and hurling insults all over the place, then you ae not worth debating with.    

Thats not true i, n fact the last time I tried to communicate with you your best reponse was " you're a queer a terrorist and a leftist", I will engage respectfully  if I'm given the same respect this unfortunately rarely happens and never witn you as most members will agree.

He tends do this even when you are talking about things you agree on with him. 

@ZeusAres42

 Hi Zeus.     Since you are continuing your personal attacks on me, I have decided to not let you off the hook.     When maxx stated that everybody is racist, you in effect said that he was wrong.   So, I set you are question that would prove that maxx is right, and that you are wrong.     The question is, that there are only two racist explanations for why the same notorious ethnicities are always crime prone and welfare dependent in every advanced and competitive western society in which they inhabit.    These are,   

1.    It is all the white guys fault.

2.    Races are different with different strengths or weaknesses caused by their genetic differences which came about from adapting to the environments which they evolved in.

If your premise, that not everybody is racist is correct, then I would love to know which racist explanation do you support?     And if you claim that you are not racist, then the onus is upon you submit another credible non racist explanation to explain away this self evident reality.      You are in a pickle.   If you can not think up a credible non racist explanation to explain away minority dysfunction, then your only option would be to pick one of the two racist explanations.    or the other.   Which makes you a racist.    So, to get out of the corner which you have painted yourself in, all you have to do is admit that maxx was right.

Continuing to dodge reasonable questions is not a good look, Zeus.   It kinda makes you look sly and  dishonest. 

@Joeseph

The reason I did not reply to your last comment towards me was exactly because you put a lot of claims and beliefs in my mouth such as that I "worship Suu Kyi" or, like now, "demonize entire nation". I simply have no interest in explaining that I do not hold views that someone randomly attributed to me. If my opponent cannot read my comments thoughtfully, then I will move on to someone else.

I will give it one more shot here, as an exception.

• I do not think that the IRA are all scum and that all people who support the IRA are scum. I think that the IRA members who performed terrorist attacks were scum, and people who support their actions are scum. There are certainly people who do not support the particular methods IRA employed, but support the cause - and while I still disagree with those people, I do not consider them morally inferior to me.
• I am not sure what nation I demonized when I did not talk about any nations at all. At least I hope that not everyone in Ireland supported the IRA's terrorist attacks... Please correct me if I am wrong. Perhaps I have had a much better view of the Irish people than I should have? As for being informed, I was not even interested in discussing the IRA - but you brought it up in the context of the discussion of Israel and Palestine, so I had to say what I can on the matter.
• I do not know if I am better than pointing out when it is clear to me that someone is, at least partially, operating on strong emotions. Or if not doing so makes one "better" in general. I want people to tell me when I am coming from the wrong place, and by the same token I tell them when they are.
• "Terrorism" is characterized by inducing civilian casualties intentionally with the purpose of intimidating the population. It is not characterized by the number of victims. This is what makes Hamas' actions terroristic and Israeli actions not terroristic.
• I do not think that moral judgements are just personal opinions. If they are and there is no rational way to talk about them, then this discussion is a complete waste of everyone's time.

I will add that I have little regard for "nations" and "peoples". I care about the individuals. That is why "sovereignty of nation" does not mean much to me: North-Koreans are not exactly sovereign individuals, and the fact that their country is "sovereign" with respect to other countries does not make any difference in their lives - in fact, "sovereignty" takes away from their individual sovereignty because the North-Korean government prevents everyone else from trying to help those people.

I do not give a flying duck about sovereignty of Ireland, or the UK, or Israel, or Palestine in themselves. To me it is all about what makes the individual living on those territories free. I do not know enough about the background behind the UK-Ireland conflict to know which government would make the life of people on the contested territories better: I suspect that it is the UK government, but I may be wrong.
But with the Israel-Palestine it is pretty straightforward. Just consider two scenarios:

1. Hamas and Fatah unconditionally surrender tomorrow and cedes the territories to the Israeli government.
2. Israel unconditionally surrenders tomorrow and cedes the territory to Hamas and Fatah.

What would result in each case? If you think that the consequences of these two scenarios would be even remotely comparable, then I do not know how this conversation is going to lead anywhere. To me it is clear that Fatah and especially Hamas are some of the vilest organizations in charge of anything on Earth right now, while the Israeli government, with all of its flaws, is among the better governments out there. For one, it seems to be a more benevolent government than any other government on the entire Middle East. So if Israel miraculously took under control the entirety of the Middle East, I would only celebrate it.

When I lived in Russia, I proposed that the Russian territory is given over to Japan, the US and the EU to be run as a special territory. That did not get me many friends... Yet to me it seems absolutely sensible that if Russians cannot for the life of them establish a proper government, then they are better off being run by a more modern and civilized foreign government. "Sovereignty"? From whom? The people are ruled by a bunch of totalitarian thugs. Is Putin's rule somehow more just than, say, Japanese rule because he happens to be Russian? To me these things do not matter one bit.

Palestine-Hamas-Iran-Yemen's Houthi scum-Lebanon's Hezbollah...these are demons in flesh...eradicate them and send them to Hell.