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There is nothing inherently wrong about rape, debate me

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  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ;  When one who serves the Devil in atheism makes such statements, I understand the genesis and cause and can only shake my head. You are of the Devil, therefore you are his spokesperson in Time.


  • FactfinderFactfinder 965 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ;  When one who serves the Devil in atheism makes such statements, I understand the genesis and cause and can only shake my head. You are of the Devil, therefore you are his spokesperson in Time.


    Ricky When one who serves the Devil in theism makes such statements, I understand the genesis and cause and can only shake my head. You are of the Devil, therefore you are his spokesperson in Time.
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ; Those who love Jesus and honor His words and life don't serve the Devil...if you were not blinded by the Devil, you would understand this.


  • FactfinderFactfinder 965 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ; Those who love Jesus and honor His words and life don't serve the Devil...if you were not blinded by the Devil, you would understand this.


    That leaves you out. You openly serve satan with your pride and your faith is fruitless, dead as the brain in your cranium. 

    Pin on Beverly Cooper
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ;  Why not offer "evidence" of your atheistic diatribe?
  • cheetahgod360cheetahgod360 12 Pts   -   edited May 22
    I was away for 2 days and I see 93 replies…
  • FactfinderFactfinder 965 Pts   -   edited May 22
    @Factfinder ;  Why not offer "evidence" of your atheistic diatribe?

    That's not the topic. Start a thread then maybe I'll school you again. But you'd have to look up 'diatribe' as me calmly exposing the foolishness of Christianity with logic, truths and reality is what happens to be an affront to self willed ignorant theists. A by product of truth humbly. On the other hand read your posts and you'll see a perfect examples of delusional diatribes. 

    Joeseph
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @cheetahgod360

    But only 1 is to you.
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw


    **Again, Elohim, allowed Israel to take into the fold those who were destitute and victims of war...if this is somehow repugnant to you as it feeds your seared and demonically debased conscience...that is YOUR business...enjoy that.**

    Stop deflecting and denying the word of your pro slavery god ,reas the verse again what part of " you may buy slaves " don't you understand?

    What part of "they are you property "are you struggling with ?

    Yes slavery is repugnant to me yet you say to find the verse above repugnant makes one "demonically debased " clearly demonstrating how f- cked in the head you are.

    You got beaten yet again , pretending your god never said something he clearly states demonstrates that you actually lie for him.

    Leviticus 25:44-46
    New International Version
    44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.


    **I am very disappointed in the Black culture in the United States who willingly fell victim to Democrat-Progressive deception. **

    Yes I know you admitted you hate blacks it is part of what you are as you hate most everyone including yourself which is why you attempt to use the bible to justify your hatred towards others as no one hates like your god.


    Factfinder
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph 1) Elohim allows slavery...so what? Your obfuscation via rejection of Jesus due your pretending to be "offended" by slavery will not negate you death in Hell for unrepentant-unredeemed sin.

    2) I don't like the Black culture, they're violent, crude, vulgar, dangerous. So what?
  • FactfinderFactfinder 965 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph 1) Elohim allows slavery...so what? Your obfuscation via rejection of Jesus due your pretending to be "offended" by slavery will not negate you death in Hell for unrepentant-unredeemed sin.

    2) I don't like the Black culture, they're violent, crude, vulgar, dangerous. So what?
    You demonstrate the hypocritical nature of your childish elf beliefs, that's so what. Clowns like you are on the way out and will soon not be tolerated in our country. We prefer the American way, freedom from ignorant religious oppression. We promote morals over dogma. Not low iq's and bigotry which you ignorantly, blindly submit to with no avail. As it's all fantasy and your ilk stupidly and evilly follow orders from the voices in your heads ordering the blind to do things like ...

     PPT - The Big Idea PowerPoint Presentation free download - ID505993
    Joeseph
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw

    1 : So why did you constantly deny your god approves of owing people as property?

    It's rather telling you're not offended by your god approving of selling children into slavery yet you're attacking me for calling it out.

    2 Yes we know you're an admitted bigot and racist ........at last Rickey admits he approves of slavery and racism.just like his primitive pro slavery ancestors.
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  

    1) Elohim does not desire that slavery exist but it exists in reality due the sin-nature of humanity and Elohim allows free will to remain paramount and in His omnipotence, Elohim works through and around mankind's free will choices to accomplish His perfect eschatological will. Elohim desires that all men be saved and come a knowledge of the Truth concerning Him and His eschatological will (2 Corinthians 5:17); hence, freedom of the soul from the demonic trappings of our fallen World but mankind in his arrogance via atheism via narcissism via religion via hedonism chooses to his own way and rejects Elohim's way; therefore, mankind reaps what is sown in infidelity and foolishness...slavery to sin, slavery to others, slavery to Satan are the resultant...you are but one example.

    2) I prefer peace and love and genuine respect for others...but these attributes are seldom practiced in our fallen World; therefore, I speak-out about the foolishness of the root of discord, atheism-servitude to Satan and counter atheistic stu-pidi-ty with the divine Truth of Scripture which is interpreted by the slaves to Satan as hate filled bigotry...these are simply spiritually, morally, ethically, destructive, arrogant, cognitively-spiritually impaired, people who refuse the goodness of Jesus Christ in their lives. You are but one example. 

     




  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -   edited May 23
    @RickeyHoltsclaw


    Elohim does not desire that slavery exist

    Yet he laid down the rules for buying people as property and even rules for selling a and beating your slaves , why do you keep denying your own gods words?


    I  prefer peace and love and genuine respect for others...

    You don't,  from day one here you have heaped insult and hate on anyone who isn't a Mormon like you. You're actually a compulsive li-r.
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph ; Mormonism is a works cult, not Christianity...you will both find judgment in Hell.
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw


    Elohim does not desire that slavery exist

    Yet he laid down the rules for buying people as property and even rules for selling a and beating your slaves , why do you keep denying your own gods words?


    I  prefer peace and love and genuine respect for others...

    You don't,  from day one here you have heaped insult and hate on anyone who isn't a Mormon like you. You're actually a compulsive li-r.
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph ; You interpret Truth as insulting...it's not the message of the messenger, it's your warped, demonically rooted, worldview and ideology....you're NOT spiritually well.


  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw


    ARGUMENT TOPIC : RICKEY CAUGHT LYING AGAIN AND ACTUALLY DENYING HIS GODS OWN WORDS

    Elohim does not desire that slavery exist

    Yet he laid down the rules for buying people as property and even rules for selling a and beating your slaves , why do you keep denying your own gods words?


    I  prefer peace and love and genuine respect for others...

    You don't,  from day one here you have heaped insult and hate on anyone who isn't a Mormon like you. You're actually a compulsive li-r.

  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  

    Elohim provided boundaries for indentured servitude.

    Mormonism is a works cult founded by Joseph Smith...it's not Christianity.
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw


    Elohim provided boundaries for indentured servitude

    But none for non Hebrew slaves.

    Elohim also says you may buy your slaves from foreign nations they are your property for life , you may, beat sell and do as you wish with them , your children can inherit them , you've already admitted your  ok with this so why are you deflecting again?

    Are you not a bit embarrassed falling to your knees to worship your bullying thug of a god?
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph ; Yes.
    1. Ham’s son Mizraim founded Egypt (still called Mizraim in Hebrew). Egypt was the first recorded nation in the Bible to have harsh slavery and it was imposed on Joseph, the son of Israel, in 1728 BC, according to Archbishop Ussher. Later, the Egyptians were slave masters to the rest of the Israelites, and Moses, by the hand of God, freed them.
    2. The Israelites were again enslaved by Assyrian and Babylonian captors about 1,000 years later.
    3. Other ancient nations were also involved in slavery; the Code of Hammurabi discussed it soon after Babel.
    4. “Black” Moors enslaved “Whites” during their conquering of Spain and Portugal on the Iberian Peninsula in the 8th century AD for over 400 years. The Moors even took slaves as far north as Scandinavia. The Moorish and Middle Eastern slave market was quite extensive.
    5. Norse raiders of Scandinavia enslaved other European peoples and took them back as property beginning in the 8th century AD.
    6. Even in modern times, slavery is still alive in the Sudan and Darfur.

    We find many other examples of harsh slavery from cultures throughout the world. At any rate, these few examples indicate that harsh slavery was/is a reality, and in all cases, is an unacceptable act by biblical standards.

    Exodus 21:16
    He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.

    In light of such rules, slaves/servants in Israelite culture came about by their own actions, whether from among the Israelites or neighboring cultures.

    In fact, take note of the punishment of Egypt, when the Lord freed the Israelites (Exodus chapters 3–15). God predicted this punishment well in advance:

    Genesis 15
    13 Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years.
    14 “And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions.1

    Had God not protected slaves/bondservants by such commands, then many people surrounding them, who did have harsh slavery, would have loved to move in where there were no governing principles as to the treatment of slaves. It would have given a “green light” to slave owners from neighboring areas to come and settle there. But with the rules in place, it discouraged slavery in their realm.


  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -   edited May 23
    @RickeyHoltsclaw

    ARGUMENT TOPIC: RICKEY STILL CONTRADICTING HIS GODS OWN WORDS 


    At any rate, these few examples indicate that harsh slavery was/is a reality, and in all cases, is an unacceptable act by biblical standards.


    Stop lying heres your god in his own words saying it's perfectly acceptable to own people as property but never treat Israelis like this .


    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


    YOU LOST AGAIN 
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -   edited May 23
    @Joeseph ; really hung-up on your facade of hating slavery...abortion loving liberal atheist. From AIG

    Exodus 21
    2 If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything.
    3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him.
    4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free.
    5 But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’
    6 then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the door-post and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.

    This is the first type of bankruptcy law I’ve encountered. With this, a government doesn’t step in, but a person, who has lost themselves to debt, can sell the only thing they have left, their ability to perform labor. This is a loan. In six years the loan is paid off, and they are set free. Bondservants who did this made a wage, had their debt covered, had a home to stay in, on-the-job training, and did it for only six years. This almost sounds better than college, which doesn't cover debt and you have to pay for it!

    This is not a forced agreement either. The bondservants enter into service on their own accord. In the same respect, a foreigner can also sell themselves into servitude. Although the rules are slightly different, it would still be by their own accord in light of Exodus 21.

    Exodus 21
    18 If men contend with each other, and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist, and he does not die but is confined to his bed,
    19 if he rises again and walks about outside with his staff, then he who struck him shall be acquitted. He shall only pay for the loss of his time, and shall provide for him to be thoroughly healed.
    20 And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished.
    21 Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.

    This passage follows closely after Moses' decree against slave traders in Exodus 21:16. We include verses 18 and 19 to show the parallel to servants among the Israelites. The rules still apply for their protection if they already have servants or if someone sells themselves into service.

    Leviticus 25
    38 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.
    39 And if one of your brethren who dwells by you becomes poor, and sells himself to you, you shall not compel him to serve as a slave.
    40 As a hired servant and a sojourner he shall be with you, and shall serve you until the Year of Jubilee.
    41 And then he shall depart from you––he and his children with him––and shall return to his own family. He shall return to the possession of his fathers.
    42 For they are My servants, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold as slaves.
    43 You shall not rule over him with rigor, but you shall fear your God.
    44 And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have––from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves.
    45 Moreover you may buy the children of the strangers who dwell among you, and their families who are with you, which they beget in your land; and they shall become your property.
    46 And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves. But regarding your brethren, the children of Israel, you shall not rule over one another with rigor.

    God prefaces this passage specifically with a reminder that the Lord saved them from their bondage of slavery in Egypt. Again, if one becomes poor, they can sell themselves into slavery/servitude and be released as was already discussed.

    Verse 44 discusses slaves that they may already have from nations around them. They can be bought and sold. It doesn’t say to seek them out or have forced slavery. Hence it is not giving an endorsement of seeking new slaves or encouraging the slave trade. At this point, the Israelites had just come out of slavery and were about to enter the Holy Land. They shouldn’t have had many servants. Also, this doesn’t restrict other people in cultures around them from selling themselves as bondservants. But as discussed already there are passages for the proper and godly treatment of servants/slaves.

    The slavery of “Black” people by “White” people in the 16th to 19th centuries was harshly unjust like many cultures before. This harsh slavery is not discussed in Moses’ writings, because such slavery was unknown in Hebrew culture. This is not surprising. Paul tells us in Romans 1:30 that people are capable of inventing new ways of doing evil.


  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -   edited May 24
    @RickeyHoltsclaw



    ARGUMENT TOPIC:  IV'E HIGHLIGHED THE WORDS MAD RICKEY KEEPS GETTING EMBARRESeD ABOUT. RICKEY STILL CONTRADICTING HIS GODS OWN WORDS  



    At any rate, these few examples indicate that harsh slavery was/is a reality, and in all cases, is an unacceptable act by biblical standards.


    Stop lying heres your god in his own words saying it's perfectly acceptable to own people as property but never treat Israelis like this .


    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


    YOU LOST AGAIN 
    Factfinder
  • FactfinderFactfinder 965 Pts   -  
    Joeseph said:
    @RickeyHoltsclaw



    ARGUMENT TOPIC:  IV 'E HIGHLIGHEDTHE WORDS MAD RICKEY KEEPE GETTING EMBARRESD ABOUT. RICKEY STILL CONTRADICTING HIS GODS OWN WORDS  



    At any rate, these few examples indicate that harsh slavery was/is a reality, and in all cases, is an unacceptable act by biblical standards.


    Stop lying heres your god in his own words saying it's perfectly acceptable to own people as property but never treat Israelis like this .


    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


    YOU LOST AGAIN 
    Even drunk we b*tch slap him around with his own fairy elf book! LOL
    Joeseph
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ;  You only reap judgement upon yourself.


  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph ; I'm not interested in slavery...Biblical or ancient or modern.....I truly don't care.
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder

    Ha ,Ha he keeps pretending the slavery verses mean something else , it's a lot of fun watching him try to justify his thug of a gods own words.

    Factfinder
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw

    I know your not but your god and Jesus were as both approved of owning people as property.

    You attempt to talk about morality yet you admit slavery is just fine once your thug of a god approves.
  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Joeseph ; So what...I've got Jesus, you've got Satan...deal with it!


  • cheetahgod360cheetahgod360 12 Pts   -  
    @just_sayin
    I don't know how to quote things.

    Listen, I really don't care about fair and unfair things. Whatever happens, happens. I don't care who benefits, of course I do believe it's more beneficial to the majority than this current society is (atleast in a numerical sense), but listing every issue in society is going to take a long time and each one of those topics (taxes, things taught in school, law, etc) will take a long time to debate, of course much more enjoyable than having to learn PHD level theories just to quantitate vector infinities for Error404 Sans vs Yogiri (fictional character vs pixels on computer).
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @RickeyHoltsclaw

    Argument topic : Rickets god slaughtered the world's population even though he knew how they would behave , I think st- pidity is a requirement to be a christian ......

    I still don't belive in god or satan but just to continue exposing your st-pidity try this ......

    Who's the bad guy again?



  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -   edited May 25
    @Joeseph ; You are kicking against the goads in arrogance, stup-idity, foolishness, spiritual wickedness and you will reap what you're sowing. Jesus as your Messiah is your ONLY HOPE!

    The Flood was the resultant of your god, Satan, his deception and the en mass men and women who followed Satan into defilement that nullified their ability to fulfill their ordination as progenitors of the Messiah and the Gospel...you too will succumb to a fate similar to theirs but by fire, not water. 


  • just_sayinjust_sayin 1131 Pts   -  
    Joeseph said:
    @RickeyHoltsclaw

    Argument topic : Rickets god slaughtered the world's population even though he knew how they would behave , I think st- pidity is a requirement to be a christian ......

    I still don't belive in god or satan but just to continue exposing your st-pidity try this ......

    Who's the bad guy again?



    I think your kill count for God is low.  In Jewish thought, God is ultimately in charge.  Every person who has ever died has died because God permitted it.  The question is why do you think this makes God evil?  When you wash your hands and kill 10,000 germs - do you feel like you have committed genocide?  Yet, because of your actions 10,000 life forms died.  You are much, much closer to being the germ than to being God.  God is the creator and can do what He wants with His creation.  He owes you and me nothing.  So if God allows someone to die in a car crash or by cancer - He has not wronged them.  “Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring.” - Proverbs 27:1 Further, God has not promised you and me a trouble free life.  "“Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring.” - Job 5:7

    Where did you conclude God owed you anything?  You have failed to show this.  God is not a man, so He is not obligated to abide by your wishes.  However, you are His creation and you are obligated to do what He commands.

    Another important point, is that for the Christian, death is not the end.  No matter how our life on earth ends - the soul persists.  So, death is the end. God is not subject to your laws, but you are to His.  So unless you can show me where it is wrong for God to kill what belongs to Him, you have failed to make a case - yet again.


  • FactfinderFactfinder 965 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ;  You only reap judgement upon yourself.


    Then I should be rewarded well. I believe the truth, christians don't. And I don't spread bigoted ignorance like christians do. 
  • just_sayinjust_sayin 1131 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ;  You only reap judgement upon yourself.


    Then I should be rewarded well. I believe the truth, christians don't. And I don't spread bigoted ignorance like christians do. 
    21CenturyIconoclast.  
  • JoesephJoeseph 781 Pts   -  
    @just_sayin

    I think your kill count for God is low.  In Jewish thought, God is ultimately in charge.  Every person who has ever died has died because God permitted it.  The question is why do you think this makes God evil? 

    My kill count is always veering towards the "low side"  regards gods slaughter count in the interests of fairness.

    I never said that's why I think he's evil, a reading of the Bible can through up hundreds of reasons why an indoctrinated person would come to this conclusion.

    Your god created mankind knowing how they would behave then wiped them out for behaving the way he already knew they would , seriously?


    When you wash your hands and kill 10,000 germs - do you feel like you have committed genocide? 

    No I don't, do you? Seriously?  You're happy for your god to compare you to a germ?


     Yet, because of your actions 10,000 life forms died.  You are much, much closer to being the germ than to being God. 

    Actually a germ in my mind is superior to an entity that would watch a child being raped and do nothing when it easily could. You deem such actions loving and praiseworthy as god is the one doing the looking.


     God is the creator and can do what He wants with His creation.

    So using your rationale a matter could kill his child as he's the father ..............?


      He owes you and me nothing.  So if God allows someone to die in a car crash or by cancer - He has not wronged them.  “Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring.” - Proverbs 27:1 Further, God has not promised you and me a trouble free life.  "“Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring.” - Job 5:7

    Yet god said he would answer prayer more than once in fact he promised it , so tell me how he answered the prayers of Jews slaughtered in the gas Chambers?

    Where did you conclude God owed you anything?  You have failed to show this. 

    I didn't as I don't believe in any gods , my purpose is to demonstrate how irrational such superstitious nonsense is. I've failed nothing as I cannot reason you out of a postion you didn't reason yourself into.


     God is not a man, so He is not obligated to abide by your wishes.  However, you are His creation and you are obligated to do what He commands.

    Your god is exactly like Stalin ..."Stalin is not obligated by my wishes I am his subject I'm obligated  to do what he commands" 

    Another important point, is that for the Christian, death is not the end

    Eternity sounds like Hell.


    No matter how our life on earth ends - the soul persists.  So, death is the end. God is not subject to your laws, but you are to His

    Well you worship a celestial bully , why would I want any part of a life in a god who watches kids being raped and refuses to intervene because its part of some big plan?

    .  So unless you can show me where it is wrong for God to kill what belongs to Him, you have failed to make a case - yet again.

    Your totally missing the point I admit that if there was a god by my subjective estimation I would want nothing to do with it as my moral standards are considerably higher than its , you deem your gods horrendous immorality worthy of worship and excuse it all its psychotic rages .

    Yet again you invent strawman and argue against them instead of what I'm actually saying , you do it every time with everyone.

  • RickeyHoltsclawRickeyHoltsclaw 196 Pts   -  
    @Factfinder ; You have surrendered you soul to Satan, you will suffer a fate similar to his in Hell lest you repent and Jesus is your Messiah by faith.


  • cheetahgod360cheetahgod360 12 Pts   -  
    I wonder if anyone’s still here
  • just_sayinjust_sayin 1131 Pts   -  
    I wonder if anyone’s still here
    Still here.  Where would you like to pick up?

    Rape fails to consider the interests of the victim, therefore since it only considers one side's views or interests, it is unjust.  
    Factfinder
  • FactfinderFactfinder 965 Pts   -  
    @just_sayin

    Rape is a crime. “Unjust” is false accusations and punishments. An example of the former would be accusing someone of hating an imaginary god and then reacting in a negative way as if said myth were real just because you believe in it. That is a social example. Legally it’s a false charge and subsequent punishment.
  • cheetahgod360cheetahgod360 12 Pts   -  
    @just_sayin
    Didn’t we already answer that?
  • MayCaesarMayCaesar 6169 Pts   -  
    There is a fun mental experiment in game theory. Suppose a new highway is built and the speed limit is set to 70 mph. Consider the behavior of regular drivers (RDs) and police officers (POs): POs stop those drivers who significantly exceed the speed limit, and RDs try to not exceed the speed limit too much to avoid getting stopped.

    In the simplest case every RD goes at 70 mph, and POs have nothing to do. They just drive around. Nothing is happening.
    Now, RDs start testing the limits of the situation. They start going 71, 72, 73 mph. The increase over the speed limit is too small for most POs to care, so, for the most part, they manage to get away with it. Every now and then you will have a wild RD going 85 or 90, getting quickly stopped, and as a result those going 73-mph are not really paid attention to by POs.
    As they manage to get away with it, they push the boundaries more and more. They start going 74, 75, 77, 80... Now the POs realize that things are going out of control, so they start stopping those going above 80. RDs adapt to that by decreasing their speeds...
    Eventually the equilibrium state develops, where most people go, let us say, 80 or below and only get stopped by the POs very rarely, and a small minority of RDs go faster than that and get frequently stopped. The idea of the Nash's Equilibrium suggests that in any game situation (that is a situation in which participants have mutually opposing goals) this equilibrium is achieved exactly when all participants find their "comfort maximum" moving in any direction from which disadvantages them. In this example, going below 80 mph is bad because an RD would get to his destination later, and going above 80 mph is bad because an RD will be quite likely to be stopped by a PO. Conversely, stopping people going 80 mph or below is too much work for too little gain in safety for a PO, while ignoring those going above 80 makes the highway highly unsafe (and decreases the PO's bonuses).

    I have recently come to believe that everything in society works this way as well. Things like "rights", or "property", or "morals" are highly ambiguous and subjective - however, the society develops some equilibrium in each. In case of morals, the equilibrium is quite soft and pretty large deviations from it are possible - but deviate too much, and the society will derive you.

    You used word "inherently" in your opening statement. I am not sure what it would mean for something to be "inherently wrong" - however, rape can be seen as "practically wrong" in that any sustainable society is going to develop strong prejudice against it. A society in which men walk around raping women they find attractive is not a society anyone wants to live in, not even the most twisted man: he might at the first glance find the idea appealing, but if he thinks it through, he will see that it is a nightmarish society in which men compete for the most desirable women not by making competing offers, but by beating each other up, maybe even killing each other - and then getting the woman and forcing themselves on her. It is a society of wolves in which everyone is against everyone else.

    So even if you truly believe that rape cannot be condemned on moral grounds in some objective sense (which is a very reasonable position to take), you have to accept the fact that partaking in rape in practice is extremely impractical. Even assuming you can get away with it somehow, you will have to forever hide your "secret life" from everyone. There is a vast literature on the psychological effects of having to hide some things about yourself from everyone. It is not pretty.

    I would make a larger point and claim that coercion is a bad choice for anything in life. I do not remember who said it, but it was something to the effect of, "Nobody has ever changed their mind by having his nose connected with his opponent's fist". Sure, by employing force or threat of force you can get someone to do what you want them to do - but you cannot get them to take your side. No matter how sadistic you are, making enemies of other people while getting small immediate gratification from them obeying you is going to make you extremely miserable and paranoid. Look at any dictator out there: they all have that anxious look in their eyes. They know that they have made enemies of millions upon millions of people, enemies who, given a convenient moment, would stab them.

    So even if you take the most narcissistic position possible, you have to acknowledge the value of playing nice with others and getting their consent and approval. And from this it logically follows that rape is wrong. Is it wrong "inherently"? I am not sure what it would mean... But I can confidently say that there has been no human in the history of this planet for whom engaging with it would lead to a better life.
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