there's a LOT to talk about here...is Israel committing genocide? do Jews have a right to that land? are Palestinians committing terrorist attacks? does the media have a bias for/against either one? Were Netanyahu's actions in spreading settlements justified? How can the US intervene, and should it?
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- Walt Disney
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regarding Israel, it is difficult to justify Palenestian actions as anything other than terrorist attacks. The Palestinian claim to the land has no legal basis either.
if it wouldn't be for Israel, middle east would really become a horrible place (much worse than now). It is amazing how such a small country is able to develop such a great military, have so many entrepreneurs, and have so many dedicated citizens who truly love their country.
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Without Israel, the situation in the middle east would drastically deteriorate, and would become a major burden/threat to our country.
That's why US need to continue to support oir critical ally in the middle east.
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Children dying? Pshh, Israevil is an ally of America, So it doesn't matter. People being oppressed? Israevil is in the right of course, They should oppress the people on the stolen land OF those people.
Some people on this website are purely heartless.
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that said, there were countless examples of innocent victims on both sides who got caught up in this conflict. Many innocent Israellies were victims of terrorist attacks from the other side. It is really not about being heartless, but finding a solution that stops blood shed in that region.
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''How many times has Israel gone out of its way to conduct structured terrorist attacks targeting women and children?"https://electronicintifada.net/content/ultimate-hypocracy-israels-targeting-palestinians-spun-part-war-against-terrorism/3986
Israelites HATE the people of palestine. The police are CONSTANTLY abusing the elderly and children. Oh yeah, but since you aren't a child in palastine being abused for the retarded government of you country, It's defineitly okay :P https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/04/11/palestine-israeli-police-abusing-detained-children
It's only okay, As long as it doesn't happen to you.
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Yeah they won the war, But let's keep abusing them for fun. I mean, They're all sub human right? What do they know, Just a bunch of animals. Let's just murder them like cattle. After all, Isn't that what they're worth?
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I respect your point of view, and the issue is so deep that I doubt there is any practical resolution at this point.
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All terrorists are muslim? http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619
Just because your brother [One israeli] doesn't hate the people of palestine, Doesn't mean they all don't.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/charlotte-silver/israeli-counterterrorism-means-abuse-and-torture-children
I'm brainwashed? No, It's the other way around. I'm the only one sane in this mad house, Filled with unsympathetic evil trumptards.
If i am brainwashed for believing Israel is evil for abusing children, Then i'm proud to call my self a full on lunatic.
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For the record, I still have complete respect for your opinion. There aren't many reasons why someone might be pro-Palestine and I understand completely, I just disagree. Come back to me when you're willing to have a more civilized discussion please.
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Again, The terrorist attacks are done by the adults. So why aren't they going after the adults!?! Why children?? Just because the child can't fight back?
And again, I have said this before. I acknowledge that the land is israel's land now. My ONLY problem, Is that they are abusing children. And the palastinians that are bombing israel, Are not any better. They are equal trash. But why do those kids have to suffer, For something they didn't do.
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Does the IDF represent all of israel?
The parents abuse them psychologically, And the Israelites abuse them physically. Both as horrible as they sound.
I'm naive for have feelings? I'm naive because i think that under no circumstances is abusing children okay? I'll stay naive then.
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Before I do I'd just like to say I can't work out how anyone could disagree with the first post as two people have. It asks questions of both sides and seems neutral.
The biggest thing I'd point out is in regards to several comments about who owns the land, which often don't even refer to which land is being talked about. Depending on what people mean, these comments could be interpreted as meaning anything from the very ordinary to support for war crimes and ethnic cleansing.
The resolution to the conflict as accepted by essentially every single nation on earth - including Israel and the Palestinian Authority which represents the Palestinian territories - is that the land should be split between the Israelis and the Palestinians based on the 1967 borders. If anyone is arguing for one side to have all the land, whether that be Israel annexing the Palestinian Territories or the Palestine Territories annexing Israel, then they are arguing a pro-war crimes position which is not acceptable.
Now to cover some specific points:
I would cast doubt on the idea that Israel is a great partner. How? Morally the USA does not approve of Israel's actions, like the rest of the world it is trying to find a resolution to the conflict which ends Israel's occupation, is against the settlements, etc - even if the USA still tends more pro-Israeli than almost any other coutnry on Earth. Strategically it is quite odd. Because of Israel's history in the region and the occupation of the Palestinian Territories, the USA can't make much use of the US strategically as it would incite the rest of the region and costs the US fairly dearly.
However more importantly, there is no legal and moral resolution to the conflict that doesn't end with peace being brokered between the two sides. To the terrorism, the USA needs to broker peace.
Israel stands accused of a whole litany of war crimes - it has even admitted to some of it's past war crimes (Like the Israeli High court of Justice labelling the IDF's use of palestinian civilians as human shields illegal) although for criticism of its current war crimes you have to go to other sources like the UN, human rights organisations like amnesty international, international bodies like the International Court of Justice, etc.
Viewing Israeli and Palestinian activities as a whole, it is impossible to say that either side has done everything right without becoming a war crime apologist.
Also trying to frame this as one versus the other is ridiculous. It is largely a cycle of violence where one side uses the actions of the other to justify their own attacks. Who threw the first punch hundreds of years ago is both impossible to find out and irrelevant.
I'd also point out that on the occasions when the violence has taken a notable leap outside the normal tit-for-tat violence, like a war, Israel sometimes has been the obvious attacker such as the Suez Crisis and the Six Day War.
Lastly, there is currently no war between Israel and the OPT - the violence taking the form of a simmering low-level ethnic clash at the moment between an occupier and an occupiee. However even if there was a war, that is besides the point. International Military Law, which was largely formulated following WW2 as a response to the horrors that were inflicted upon soldiers and civilians, delineates what is acceptable and what is a war crime, e.g. it is acceptable to gun down an armed soldier but not an unarmed child. Both sides breach this and are responsible for war crimes. Both sides should be castigated for their actions and made to stop.
It's not the norm, most Palestinian children who are killed by the IDF tend to be killed by artillery or bombs, but actually this does sometimes happen.
See the case of Imam Darweesh Al Hams as an example. Straying too near to a military outpost, this unarmed 13 year old girl who made no threatening movements was gunned down by an Israeli IDF captain who continued to shoot her unmoving body as it lay on the ground - in direct convention of IDF procedures. When investigated, the perpetrator said he would do it again and would even gun down a 3 year old.
What happened? He was made to pay a fine and promoted to Major.
Unless you are making a semantic argument to distinguish war crimes and terrorism, Israel is widely accepted to be carrying out war crimes against the Palestinians which result in far more deaths than the Palestinians cause in return.
The two key foundations of military law are distinction and proportionality. Distinction refers to recognising the difference between civilians and military personnel and proportionality means that when taking military action, the cost to civilians should not outweigh the military benefit. Or to put it simple; if you end up killing 1 civilian while in the process of killing 10 military personnel then that's tragic but by no means a crime. If you kill 10 civilians in the process of killing 1 soldier and that wasn't simply bad luck but a foreseeable consequence of your actions (e.g. opening fire in a crowded market place), then that's a war crime.
Israel regularly commits war crimes of this kind, as does Israel, but Israel is an order or magnitude worse in it's effects.For instance over 10 years Hamas and other militant groups killed 23 people with rocket attacks, only 1 of whom was a soldier. However Israel kills that amount of civilians in individual bombing attacks with equally disproportionate military casualties - for instance bombing an militant while he and his family are at home in a crowded residential area and he is posing no direct threat to anyone.
Some Israelis hate Palestinians, but many do not. Hell, take Rabbis for Peace - they will form human chains and protect Palestinian farmers from hate-mongers throwing stones with their own bodies. There are people who hate and people who love on both sides of the conflict.
Call out abuse where it happens, but when you speak in these broad tones and try to paint an entire race as one dimensional mindless haters, that enters the territory of racism.
Checkpoints and the wall, which the ICJ has stated is a violation of international military law, were in place long before this epidemic of stabbings started a couple of years back. As a war crime, it is also something that is not excusable for any reason.
It doesn't really matter if the individuals hate Palestinians or are ambivalent to them if they commit war crimes against them regardless.
How are Israelis today the victim of hatred? On average how is the life of a typical Israeli effected by hatred today? Not hugely. They are statistically unlikely to be effected by violence, with any issue there being more psychological. On the other hand a Palestinian born into the West Bank or Gaza is not only far more likely to be effected by violence, but they are also guaranteed to face oppression, a lack of freedom and a denial of their human rights today, tomorrow and every day of their lives until the occupation ends.
Mot only that, but "they must keep their people safe" will only take you so far. You're not allowed to commit war crimes because it's beneficial. Otherwise you could also argue that the PA and Hamas must guarantee their people's freedom, so obviously anything they do in the course of achieving that is okay!
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Article 6 of the Charter Provisions of the Nuremburg Trials
(a) Crimes against Peace: namely, planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing;
(3) Crimes against Humanity: namely murder…deportation, and any other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war…in execution of or in connection with any crime…whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated.
2. 1907 Hague Regulation Convention (XI) Relative to Certain Restrictions with Regard to the Exercise of the Right of Capture in Naval War
Chapter II – The Exemption from Capture of Certain Vessels
Article 4. Vessels charged with religious, scientific, or philanthropic missions are likewise exempt from capture.
What they did was engage in acts of war using weapons of war in international waters against vessels that are protected not only in peacetime but also in times of war. Israel has therefore committed both crimes against peace and crimes against humanity.
That being said, the Israeli Zionist perspective is ironically similar to the success of the Nazi party in which they both believe that they are the chosen people by God. History repeats itself but this time through Israel and no one is saying a thing.
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