I am an agnostic individual, at least when it comes to the subject of religion and whether or not there is a god or not. I personally think that agnosticism is the most logical and reasonable of the different positions on these issues. Simply because, if it is impossible to prove that there is a god, then it then in tern is impossible to prove that there isn't a god. So from my point of view, those who are atheists are making the same faith based conclusion that religious people make. They are saying there isn't a god, when in reality they don't know that and are simply making a claim that is not falsifiable. So I am curious Do you agree or disagree with me? What do you think? Let me know.
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Same with God: I know that God is an imaginary concept, because that is what it is: people came up with it during their philosophical speculations. Does it mean the God cannot exist? Obviously not. But as a pure product of human imagination, backed by no evidence, we should assume the null hypothesis: that it does not exist. It does not mean that we are 100% confident that it does not exist, but it means that we take a logically consistent position that it does not exist. It is not a faith-based approach; it is a logic-based approach. I do not "believe" that the God does not exist, but I assume that it does not exist, based on some logical considerations.
I do include some Shintoist concepts in my world view; I like to think of my car as a living being, or of the trees around as living beings. That is just an abstract model, however; I do not try to make any claims about the objective reality here. We all have our own models of the world, all strongly flawed.
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Agnosticism is not a position of belief related to the existence of deities. It is a position of knowledge. One can accept there is nothing to be known about gods while still believing (or not) in their existence.
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Agnosticism is a position that states there is nothing that can be proven in terms of whether there is a god or not and therefore there is nothing that can be known about the existence of god, meaning that the positions of whether there is a god or not are not falsifiable. If they are not falsifiable, then they can't be considered as fact. Which according to the dictionary is "a thing that is known or proven to be true." If something is not falsifiable, then it cannot be proven to be true.
Also, if a position of whether or not god exists cannot be proven true or false, then it cannot become knowledge. Again, according to the dictionary, knowledge is "facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject."
So since the idea of the existence or non existence of god cannot be proven logically, meaning it can't be falsified, then it cannot become a fact and therefore cannot become knowledge. So your argument that somehow it is not a position on the existence of deities/gods is not true.
Also, as a former religious person I can guarantee you that most if not all religious people(at least those that I have met in my life) truly do think that they can prove the existence of god. If you want a better background on some of the arguments religious people make I recommend watching a movie called the "Case for Christ". It will give you a good idea of how religious people, especially Christians think and justify their faith to themselves.
definition of knowledge- https://www.bing.com/search?q=knowledge+definition&form=EDGTCT&qs=DA&cvid=b1bede9ec52a4a2fbc36ad640ec95093&refig=20d506317aa942e9d40f738d6027a33d&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=0&PC=DCTS
definition of fact-https://www.bing.com/search?q=fact+definition&form=EDGTCT&qs=DA&cvid=0c3bf0359ac144f39bfe63f2d9a55585&refig=77c66deca8e84a538ba134ce4f121029&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=0&PC=DCTS
background on the "case for Christ" film- https://www.bing.com/search?q=the case for christ book film&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=the case for christ book film&sc=1-29&sk=&cvid=123C9142E78F41918560D3F1B8BBDE86
"It is not strange...to mistake change for progress."-Millard Fillmore
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"It is not strange...to mistake change for progress."-Millard Fillmore
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."-Ayn Rand
"To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable."-Barry Goldwater
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I can easily accept agnosticism is a position "that states there is nothing that can be proven in terms of whether there is a god or not". That is a proper definition.
I think the whole argument about whether atheism is faith-based is mostly equivocation. (There is more than one definition of atheism) Some atheists (not all or most) believe no god exists. So, if we're comparing that subset of atheism to theism, then I see little reason to disagree.
That being said, I think many atheists will grumble with this argument because they personally understand atheism differently.
As for agnosticism being superior, I disagree. Theism makes a claim and atheism doesn't (typically). To stand between these two views is to give theism the benefit of a doubt it hasn't earned. One can reject claims built on ignorance without the need for knowledge to the contrary. In fact, unsubstantiated claims can (and should) be rejected outright.
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I don't care if you consider yourself an atheist, a religious person, or even a sun worshiper. However, either I am missing something or there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what atheism is on your part.
definition of atheism-(https://www.bing.com/search?q=define atheism&tf=U2VydmljZT1EaWN0aW9uYXJ5QW5zd2VyVjIgU2NlbmFyaW89RGVmaW5pdGlvblNjZW5hcmlvIFBvc2l0aW9uPU5PUCBSYW5raW5nRGF0YT1UcnVlIEZvcmNlUGxhY2U9RmFsc2UgUGFpcnM9RGljdGlvbmFyeVdvcmQ6YXRoZWlzbTtzY246RGVmaW5pdGlvblNjZW5hcmlvO3A6UUFTOyB8&hs=0nME3WgQnqxhXcTaZDRxeJy8h3wNfKFnGK+8od944s4=&FORM=DCNMOP)
"It is not strange...to mistake change for progress."-Millard Fillmore
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."-Ayn Rand
"To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable."-Barry Goldwater
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Also, to say that atheists don't make any claims most of the time is ridiculous. Every atheist I have watched or heard talk, from Nietzsche to Bill Maher, has told me that they don't think god exists. This is an claim that is making an absolute out of something that is an argument about the existence of a metaphysical concept. Which is a leap of faith into the positions of there not being a god. And your right unsubstantiated claims should be rejected, like the claim that is or isn't a god for example. Both those positions are incredibly unsubstantiated.
definition of atheism-(https://www.bing.com/search?q=define atheism&tf=U2VydmljZT1EaWN0aW9uYXJ5QW5zd2VyVjIgU2NlbmFyaW89RGVmaW5pdGlvblNjZW5hcmlvIFBvc2l0aW9uPU5PUCBSYW5raW5nRGF0YT1UcnVlIEZvcmNlUGxhY2U9RmFsc2UgUGFpcnM9RGljdGlvbmFyeVdvcmQ6YXRoZWlzbTtzY246RGVmaW5pdGlvblNjZW5hcmlvO3A6UUFTOyB8&hs=0nME3WgQnqxhXcTaZDRxeJy8h3wNfKFnGK+8od944s4=&FORM=DCNMOP)
definition of unsubstantiated-https://www.bing.com/search?q=unsubstantiated&form=EDGTCT&qs=PF&cvid=e06a45b4d77f4faabb6231b13012732c&refig=515c0e4ede054d4da48942a2eb7ff322&cc=US&setlang=en-US&plvar=0&PC=DCTS
"It is not strange...to mistake change for progress."-Millard Fillmore
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."-Ayn Rand
"To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable."-Barry Goldwater
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I think you misunderstood my position. I specifically said that "I cannot prove that the God exists, hence he does not exist" is a wrong argument. This is not the argument I am making. What I am saying is this: there is no reason to assume that the God exists, and hence the default null hypothesis is most reasonable to accept. It does not mean that I believe that God does not exist, it is that I do not believe that including God in one's world view makes sense.
As far as your distinction between a goblin and a God goes, I do not see it as valid. It does not matter what something occupies, a space, a mind or whatever else. Either it exists or not; there is no in-between. Granted, you can say that something exists from your perspective, but does not exist from someone else's perspective, and that can be a valid stance. You can believe in goblins and claim to see them every day, and, again, I cannot prove you wrong, no matter what I do. And maybe you really see them; how should I know? But in my world, there are no goblins as far as I know, and there are no Gods as far as I know, and this is a purely logical position.
In mathematics, we have this rule: "A statement that has not been validated is assumed to be false". You can claim something random - "Every continuous function is differentiable" - but unless you have demonstrated how you have come to this conclusion, nobody will accept your claim as valid. In this case, the claim is false, but instead of looking for a counterexample, I will just assume that your statement is false by default and counter-examples may exist, because, for all I know, your claim is random.
It is a great rule to follow in life in general, including with regards to God/Gods. Either demonstrate that there is God, or do not bother telling me about it. Maybe there is, maybe there is not, but until I have seen a good argument in favor of one's existence, it will not be a part of my world view.
An agnostic in this case is one that says, "I do not know if every continuous function is differentiable, so you may be right or not". That is a dubious position to have, because the burden of proof is now on you, and every charlatan can make any claims they want which you will give them credibility for. You should have higher expectations from what you consider a plausible theory.
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I'd be interested in hearing if anyone applies the same thought process used in agnosticism to anything else in every day life.
Technically nothing can be absolutely proven, there is always a margin of error or assumption on anything. Do you live your life as if someone had secretly wired a bomb to every single door you're going to open? It's technically possible, so do you worry every time you're opening a door? Of course not, it's just something that technically could happen but which is so unlikely you pay it no mind.
There is legitimately infinite you can worry about by the standards of agnosticism but no-one, including agnostics, does.
Formal intents and purposes taking am agnostic approach to whether something exists or not is the same as assuming it doesn't exist. I can't prove my hand isn't possessed by a demon that's about to take it over and try and kill me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to cut it off.
That's why although I technically agree with agnosticism I label myself atheist. It reduces the concept of God to the level of an absurdity that you give no notice to.
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so again, if anything this just proves my point to a tee. That atheism is a leap of faith/an assumption that something exists or doesn’t exist despite there being no evidence of either case meaning it is not falsifiable.
Honestly, this illogical twisting argument you keep making is just proving my point more and more.
"It is not strange...to mistake change for progress."-Millard Fillmore
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"Atheism is "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or god's."
Lack of belief is *not belief*. An agnostic can not believe in god. An agnostic can be an atheist. If you don't want to use the label that's fine, but don't try to redefine "atheist" to exclude yourself.
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A ) No evidence supporting something happening
There are literally infinite application this this because there is no limit to the amount of things that could conceivably happen and can be said to happen due to some mysterious immeasurable process.
Can you prove that you aren't naturally homosexual but being made to think that you're heterosexual (or vice versa) by someunknown supernatural process? No, you can't, because how could you prove something like that?
So by the logic of agnosticism, you are agnostic when it comes to your own sexuality.
It's absurd, of course, but that's on the same level as what agnosticism reduces religion to.
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It is not my fault that you decide to miss on all the details and simplify one's position in such a way. There are more positions than just "I believe that god exists", "I believe that god does not exist" and "I do not know whether god exists". These are just some general descriptions of one's position, but the actual positions are much more nuanced.
I consider that gods do not exist, just as I consider that unicorns do not exist, that goblins do not exist, that ghosts do not exist and so on. I cannot prove that they do not exist, and they might exist in principle - maybe they do, how would I know? But nothing I have seen suggests to me that they do, and since my world view has worked well for me so far, I prefer to still keep it. I respect the principles of Burden of Proof and Occam's Razor, purely for their practicality, hence I construct my position based on what these principles suggest.
In my world view, these entities do not exist; but I do not know with 100% certainty that they do not exist, and I assume the possibility that they do. I just do not think that mere theoretical possibility of something being true is sufficient to take that something seriously. Goblins are a product of human imagination, and even if they exist in reality, any claims anyone can make about them as of now are completely unfounded, hence it is better to not take such claims seriously. Find me a goblin, and then we can talk more about it. Until then, while goblins' existence is, in theory, possible - in practice, I do not think that considering their existence seriously makes any sense.
You can call me agnostic if you like. To me, most self-called agnostics seem to be intellectually overly careful people, afraid to make any mistakes. I am not afraid of stating that goblins do not exist, and being proven wrong eventually. I would be more afraid of keeping the possibility of trillions different things in my head and never being able to make any conclusions about them; why, I would never be able to lift a finger, if I had to take into account all the theoretically possible consequences of that. I prefer to stick with what has worked for me so far, and there has been 0 instances in my life when the stance that goblins do not exist failed me.
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Nothing you have said disproves the idea that you could be a homosexual being influenced by a supernatural force to feel hetrosexual urges against your natural inclination.
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Also as previously mentioned, nothing you have said disproves the idea that you could be a homosexual being influenced by a supernatural force to feel hetrosexual urges against your natural inclination.
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"It is not strange...to mistake change for progress."-Millard Fillmore
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