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The earth is flat
in Earth Science

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  • @Erfisflat, here is another  argument for you with help from reddit.

    flat-earthers claim that the apparent force of gravity felt on Earth is actually caused by the upward acceleration of the disc we're standing on. However we can easily measure that gravity is slightly different around the world, and weaker the further away from the ground you go. If this gravity were caused by an accelerating Earth, it would have to be uniform everywhere, since the whole disc is clearly accelerating at the same rate since it's not being torn apart. 

    Some of them at this point say that acceleration causes *most* of the gravity we feel, but that the mass of the disc also has an affect. Well if that were true, gravity on a disc would point slightly towards the center of the disc rather than always straight down. 

    Live Long and Prosper
  • Erfisflat said:
    @evidence maybe you can translate what @crazyturtle is trying to tell me.
    Yeah I know, I was there too not so long ago until you showed me that cardboard cut out video using the sun and a flash light.
    Can you show him that, I can't find it!?
    Here is another good example:


    Erfisflat
  • agsr said:
    @Erfisflat, here is another  argument for you with help from reddit.

    flat-earthers claim that the apparent force of gravity felt on Earth is actually caused by the upward acceleration of the disc we're standing on. However we can easily measure that gravity is slightly different around the world, and weaker the further away from the ground you go. If this gravity were caused by an accelerating Earth, it would have to be uniform everywhere, since the whole disc is clearly accelerating at the same rate since it's not being torn apart. 

    Some of them at this point say that acceleration causes *most* of the gravity we feel, but that the mass of the disc also has an affect. Well if that were true, gravity on a disc would point slightly towards the center of the disc rather than always straight down. 

    No gravity, just density and buoyancy.

    In the past 10 years, how many experiment did NASA scuba Astronauts show us done "outside" the ISS? Like put a bowling ball with marbles orbiting it? They don't even have to spin it in orbit, just let the "space-fabric" guide it in, like this:

     


    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @agsr

    I'm repeating myself here, but I'll explain my position once again. Gravity is a theory without an ounce of practical evidence. We see things fall simply because the molecules that make up the air under the apple are less dense than the apple. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @agsr I've stated before that the earth is motionless and that the flat earth society are led by shills. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • Erfisflat is either a troll or just has a massive tinfoil around his head
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    Erfisflat is either a troll or just has a massive tinfoil around his head
    troll (/ˈtroʊl//ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    Evidence said:
    Erfisflat said:
    @evidence maybe you can translate what @crazyturtle is trying to tell me.
    Yeah I know, I was there too not so long ago until you showed me that cardboard cut out video using the sun and a flash light.
    Can you show him that, I can't find it!?
    Here is another good example:


    I posted that one a few posts back. I think it's insane how so many people will believe such nonsense or just dismiss evidence altogether if it doesn't match with an assumed premise. They just refuse to believe that they've been lied to. Like a Stockholm syndrome. 

    muchoweas
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • I agree with @Erfisflat . MAMy scientific theories are inaccurate and need further development,  this could be part of that.
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    muchoweas said:
    I agree with @Erfisflat . MAMy scientific theories are inaccurate and need further development,  this could be part of that.
    Welcome to debateisland! That's an interesting point, could you give another example? 
    aarongearthsshape
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat I politely disagree. There is documented photographic evidence of the Earth's shape.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    earthsshape said: @Erfisflat I politely disagree. There is documented photographic evidence of the Earth's shape.@earthsshape

    Post one.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @evidence this! For the lolz
     
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    Seeing the view count rising, but no more takers. People from DDO, welcome to Debateisland! Care to take a stab? 

    In the meantime, let's examine more evidence that water (and the earth) is flat. 

    The specular highlight.

    Light reflects off of convex surfaces in unique ways.
    This is a linear reflection.

    The light from the sun or moon is elongated here, and mirror like here.
     There's the problem, curved surfaces produce specular highlights, and shrunken, warped reflections on a ball. These expected results have never been found. It would even be safe to say that a reflection of the sun would be impossible to see, since the observer is at point 1 in this diagram. The reflection would only be visible at or near point 7.

    Samuel Rowbotham wrote in Zetectic Astronomy:

    IF the earth is a globe, and is 25,000 English statute miles in circumference, the surface of all standing water must have a certain degree of convexity--every part must be an arc of a circle. From the summit of any such arc there will exist a curvature or declination of 8 inches in the first statute mile. In the second mile the fall will be 32 inches; in the third mile, 72 inches, or 6 feet"

    When the math is done, it should curve 6 feet down in just 3 miles from the sea level, and, being a ball, would curve very sharply with over a mile drop from only 100 miles, so we should see these effects on our lakes and oceans. It would be a very noticable drop. To show this in observational experimentation, flatten out a long piece of reflective material, such as sheet metal. I like to use the side with imperfections, to simulate waves.

    Since we are very close to the earth in comparison to the sun, we hold the material up to the eye, and point it at a source of light, now bend that material, even the slightest, and the reflection will not remain. Now consider where the sun is at the time if sunset for any observer. Logically, any curve would interrupt this line of light between the source of light and the observer, this is the reason we see shadows being cast by ripples. Since this reflection is impossible to get on a ball, but experimentally reproduced with a flat surface, this is an empirical proof that there is no curvature to water.

    melefPowerPikachu21m_abusteitSilverishGoldNova
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • melefmelef 67 Pts
    @Erfisflat , I understand your evidence. I disagree, because on the basics or basic needs of theories it is proved wrong and cant be scientifically possible. Also, a flat eart isn't possible, because of the earth day and night.
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    melef said:
    @Erfisflat , I understand your evidence. I disagree, because on the basics or basic needs of theories it is proved wrong and cant be scientifically possible. Also, a flat eart isn't possible, because of the earth day and night.
    Exactly how have theories proved flat earth wrong? Have you read any posts here? I have shown that a spherical earth is scientifically impossible. Night and day is completely compatible with the flat earth model. 

    I have explained this a few times now. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat
    How does the night/day model for a flat earth explain the nights and days we observe on other planets, or the sunlight that reflects off the moon?
    Also, the scale of the ocean is too large for there to be a specular reflection.
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @melanielust this is obviously another red herring. What exactly do lights in the sky prove about curvature or axial rotation? Also, big or not, curved water is curved water. As I have shown mathematically, it's not that big. Just saying "it's too big" isn't very scientific, and doesn't hold water.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat

    We can physically see the planets very clearly. You can do this yourself by taking at a telescope, finding jupiter, tracking it across the course of several nights, and taking photographs. Lots of amateur astronomers do this. I haven't compiled a video of it myself but I've seen the changes. Here's an example of an amateur making a GIF of Jupiter's rotation:
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @melanielust doesn't jupiter have moons? Where at the stars? I mean I'm willing to discuss this strawman with you, and this is a little more believable than what NASA provides,
    But empirically measuring the earth > looking at objects in the firmament. Maybe this would be better off on the space is fake debate. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @erisflat

    I’ll mention it in the space debate if it’s brought up, but I think it’s still pertinent to this one. Jupiter has plenty of moons and they’re all at different orbits and distance from the planet, so from some perspectives it looks like there are no moons at all. Here’s one where one of the moons is visible:

    The stars are not visible because they’re washed out by the bright light of the sun, which is shining on Jupiter; so Jupiter + moons are the only things we could see. The sun washing out other light is also why we can’t see stars during the day.

    Also, the image you provided shows auroras, a phenomenon that can happen on the poles of planets. (Not an expert on this so don’t ask me how it works, I’m sure you could find something online though.) The earth equivalent of that would be the Northern Lights, which are quite beautiful.

    The point is that it proves planets rotate. You can see this happening with other planets in our solar system as well. Why would earth be any different?
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @melanielust
    Obvious differences, and I'm trying to word this differently when I say this, but it doesn't really matter what shape lights appear to be in the sky. If this is the best proof there is for a spherical earth, well I'm sure you'll agree flat earth wins this debate..
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat
    Admittedly it isn't the best evidence but it's what we're talking about right now. They’re not “lights in the sky,” they’re planets and you can clearly see them rotating for yourself.

    Based off of such observations, and with the help of other telescope technology (including radio signals which I think I explained in a different debate) you can measure Jupiter’s mass and curvature. Observing Jupiter’s moons specifically was actually the first way scientists ever calculated the extensive properties of a planet. I won’t go into the math but essentially the moons orbit because of gravitational pulls from Jupiter; the relative size of the moons compared to their distance from the planet can help determine how strong that pull is, which has a direct relationship with mass/density.

    http://www.phy.ohiou.edu/~tss/ASTR410/Kelley04/jupmass.html

    On a side note personally I think the best evidence, and only evidence you need, are multiple pictures from different reliable sources, which we have. I think we’ve exhausted that subject beyond being able to change each other’s opinions though.
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @Erfisflat
    Admittedly it isn't the best evidence but it's what we're talking about right now. They’re not “lights in the sky,” they’re planets and you can clearly see them rotating for yourself.

    Based off of such observations, and with the help of other telescope technology (including radio signals which I think I explained in a different debate) you can measure Jupiter’s mass and curvature. Observing Jupiter’s moons specifically was actually the first way scientists ever calculated the extensive properties of a planet. I won’t go into the math but essentially the moons orbit because of gravitational pulls from Jupiter; the relative size of the moons compared to their distance from the planet can help determine how strong that pull is, which has a direct relationship with mass/density.

    http://www.phy.ohiou.edu/~tss/ASTR410/Kelley04/jupmass.html

    On a side note personally I think the best evidence, and only evidence you need, are multiple pictures from different reliable sources, which we have. I think we’ve exhausted that subject beyond being able to change each other’s opinions though.
    I mean, even after I've shown evidence of photoshop, not to mention NASA openly admits they're all Photoshop composites, you still insist there are pictures of earth from space?
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat

    I do. Of course it’s easy to fake planets and space landscapes on Photoshop (I would know, I make space scenes on PS all the time for fun).

    We can’t take pictures of the earth from space unless there’s a manned mission where one happens to be taken, so the last unprocessed, unphotoshopped picture of Earth is from 1972 (Apollo 17 mission) and I think it’s pretty convincing. Other than that, processing images from space is a very complicated process and requires some enhancing or coloration so it’s easily visible. When they colorize images of say, a nebula, they do it according to what is most likely the real color based off of their calculations. That’s what Photoshop is for; “Data Visualizer” is an apt name.

    The second link you provided doesn’t seem too reliable but let’s go for it. Finding things that look like words on the earth’s surface doesn’t prove anything, especially if you edit it so much (flipping, inverting) so that it’s not actually the real image. Even if they intentionally edited it to include the word “sex” after you flip it 180 degrees (and they have no reason to do that) it doesn’t prove that the earth is flat.
    Erfisflat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @Erfisflat

    I do. Of course it’s easy to fake planets and space landscapes on Photoshop (I would know, I make space scenes on PS all the time for fun).


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts

    @melanielust

    So you admit that photo shopping images of earth is easy, claim that they took a picture over 50 years ago, which is demonstrably fake, probably a painting, 



    Then claim that despite 50 years of technological advancement, that now it's too hard, while parroting an excuse from NASA? It wouldn't take a fraction of their budget to strap the best camera money can buy to a rocket, fly it far enough away, turn it around and take a picture. You seem like a relatively intelligent person, do you know what intellectually dishonest means? No disrespect intended, and I appreciate the skepticism,  but you should apply that same level of skepticism to your arguments as well.

    Intellectual dishonesty is a failure to apply standards of rational evaluation that one is aware of, usually in a self-serving fashion. If one judges others more critically than oneself, that is intellectually dishonest.


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @erisflat

    I’ll mention it in the space debate if it’s brought up, but I think it’s still pertinent to this one. Jupiter has plenty of moons and they’re all at different orbits and distance from the planet, so from some perspectives it looks like there are no moons at all. Here’s one where one of the moons is visible:

    The stars are not visible because they’re washed out by the bright light of the sun, which is shining on Jupiter; so Jupiter + moons are the only things we could see. The sun washing out other light is also why we can’t see stars during the day.

    Also, the image you provided shows auroras, a phenomenon that can happen on the poles of planets. (Not an expert on this so don’t ask me how it works, I’m sure you could find something online though.) The earth equivalent of that would be the Northern Lights, which are quite beautiful.

    The point is that it proves planets rotate. You can see this happening with other planets in our solar system as well. Why would earth be any different?
    one more thing, which direction does Jupiter spin? You've posted pictures of it spinning in both directions. Can you provide sources? 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    To the overwhelming amount of open minded critical thinkers privately messaging me, thanks for the encouragement and as as always, trust your senses and do your research.
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @erisflat
    Jupiter rotates Eastward, in prograde motion. The first GIF was simply turned upside down; notice how the Red Spot is towards the top, when in reality it’s towards the bottom.

    As for the argument about images, NASA can’t just authorize a manned mission whenever they please. It’s kind of a big deal and requires a lot of funding. Sometimes it’s even more accurate to digitally visualize an image based off of data, which they do routinely through satellites and information collected from space stations.

    The video you provided was pretty interesting but I don’t think it makes much sense. Those countries wouldn’t be on “the other side” of the world, they would still be taking in light because the relative curvature of the planet allows for sunlight to extend that far. Imagine you’re holding up a tennis ball and you shine a flashlight on it; the light doesn’t only hit the part you can see upfront, it also extends to the curved sides.

    I appreciate your skepticism, I really do, and I am glad you are now civilly engaging in this discussion. I am skeptic of many things myself, and this just isn’t one of them, and I think that’s ok. If there’s one thing I’ve gained from all this it’s improved debating + research skills and the ability to approach opinions I radically disagree with judgement-free, so thanks for that as well.
    CuriousGeorge
  • @melanielust, I feel exactly how you articulated. STill believe the earth is not flat, but I think it Is a good debating experience- which is a whole point of this site 
    melanielust
    Live Long and Prosper
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    @melanielust

    " Those countries wouldn’t be on “the other side” of the world, they would still be taking in light because the relative curvature of the planet allows for sunlight to extend that far."

    Even so, if those countries were at the top, they would see the sun very close to the horizon. So close that they would be experiencing a southern sunset. Really, I think you're grasping at straws on this one. 

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • @Erfisflat
    Look at it this way.
    There's a reason Africa looks so big in that image; the camera is closer rather than far away. So if you zoomed out a little you'd still see all the countries. The sun would still be hitting them. It's all about relative curvature and the position of the observer. You could try it yourself with a globe, if you have one. If not:
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    melanielust said: @Erfisflat Look at it this way.There's a reason Africa looks so big in  image; the camera is closer rather than far away. So if you zoomed out a little you'd still see all the countries. The sun would still be hitting them. It's all about relative curvature and the position of the observer. You could try it yourself with a globe, if you have one. If not: "

    @melanielust I do own a globe, and did try this. While I agree that the continents got smaller with distance, but so did the globe. 
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts

    @melanielust
    I didn't see entire continents disappear either.  We should see a lot more of the northern hemisphere. This picture was supposedly taken during the original lunar landings, right?


    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    edited June 2017
    Google knows Earth Day 2013

    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
  • ErfisflatErfisflat 1306 Pts
    Pseudoscience: noun; a collection of beliefs or practices mistakenly regarded as being based on scientific method.

    Scientific method: noun; a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

    https://www.gofundme.com/mwmvf-is-the-earth-flat
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