God is far more evil than the Devil?

Dee

@TDKB

**** @ZeuesAres42, I challenge you, and @Dee, and @Pllafelvohen , to show the Public, where GOD has been blamed for telling this embarrassed human being to throw acid on a US citizens face?


But where did I and the others ever say this? You were challenged to answer one simple question you cannot do so because of your genetic stupidity or else you’re back boozing which I suspect may be the case as your genetic stupidity couldn’t possibly be accountable for your latest total mental melt down .

.

piloteer

Dee said:

@TDKB

**** @ZeuesAres42, I challenge you, and @Dee, and @Pllafelvohen , to show the Public, where GOD has been blamed for telling this embarrassed human being to throw acid on a US citizens face?


But where did I and the others ever say this? You were challenged to answer one simple question you cannot do so because of your genetic stupidity or else you’re back boozing which I suspect may be the case as your genetic stupidity couldn’t possibly be accountable for your latest total mental melt down .

.

Whoa whoa, let's not harp on boozing here. Stupidity is stupidity, booze has nothing to do with that. I may say some $hit while drunk, but Truman Capote wrote some of his best work while drunk, so I don't think the booze causes the stupidity if it was there to begin with ..............Wow, that was a really thing for me to say. I'll definitely need two shots to make myself feel OK about that dumpster fire of a comment.   

Plaffelvohfen

Just in case someone would say in God's defense that this was all before Jesus, when a new covenant was made, well Jesus is not a nice guy either, he was loosing his sh8t by the end...

Just look at Luke 14:26 , Matthew 10:34-38 for example, this guy was really anti-family, we're talking "hate" here, that is what is written, "hate"... And if hate is evil well.........

ZeusAres42

“The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion or in politics, but it is not the path to knowledge, and there's no place for it in the endeavor of science." - Carl Sagan

The reasoning behind this discussion is to challenge an idea that may make one feel offended or at least uncomfortable.

I think one of the reasons for why some people of the religious persuasion may take offence or feel uncomfortable with discussions like this is in part, something to do with cognitive dissonance:

The theory of cognitive dissonance helps explain why people sometimes go to great lengths to account for thoughts, words, and behaviors that seem to clash—when one learns new information that challenges a deeply held belief, for example, or acts in a way that seems to undercut one's self-image.

By bringing attention to the inconsistencies in our minds, cognitive dissonance can be an opportunity for growth. Exactly how we choose to resolve the dissonance and the feelings of discomfort can be a reflection of our mental health. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/basics/cognitive-dissonance

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

Explain to me how your question, isn't anti God, apparently?

"God is far more evil than the Devil?"

Because not once in any Religious building, that I have attended, has your posed question, ever been expressed during their separate religious messages.

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

I googled your question: 
"God is far more evil than the Devil"

And the below Author, and book came up:

https://www.amazon.com/Devil-Has-No-Mother-Greater/dp/1617951897

A book by Nicky Cruz

"The Devil Has No Mother: Why He's Worse Than You Think - But God is Greater"


The below is one of the reviews written in regards to Mr. Cruz's book.

Beachdog7·June 17, 2015

5.0 out of 5 starsVerified Purchase

Format: Kindle Edition

"God is the healer and the only one that can forgive.

Nicky's stories about the truth of the types of voodo and devil worship that goes on in some of those islands is so damaging. I wish that I could share his book and actual events he saw or went through as a child. Jesus Christ is the only one who took that beating and shed His blood for us' so that we wouldn't have to. I worship the Jew who died on the cross for me and all of us. I don't understand how people can believe that another human can heal them. Forgiveness and healing comes through the Holy Spirit. Praise God."

Sand

@ZeusAres42

If a man creates artificial life and turns it off is it considered murder?

TKDB

@Dee

@ZeusAres42

@Plaffelvohfen

Why do you all, view the below as irrelevant?

What did Mr. Cruz write, that you disagree with? 

https://www.amazon.com/Devil-Has-No-Mother-Greater/dp/1617951897

A book by Nicky Cruz

"The Devil Has No Mother: Why He's Worse Than You Think - But God is Greater"


The below is one of the reviews written in regards to Mr. Cruz's book.

Beachdog7·June 17, 2015

5.0 out of 5 starsVerified Purchase

Format: Kindle Edition

"God is the healer and the only one that can forgive.

Nicky's stories about the truth of the types of voodo and devil worship that goes on in some of those islands is so damaging. I wish that I could share his book and actual events he saw or went through as a child. Jesus Christ is the only one who took that beating and shed His blood for us' so that we wouldn't have to. I worship the Jew who died on the cross for me and all of us. I don't understand how people can believe that another human can heal them. Forgiveness and healing comes through the Holy Spirit. Praise God." 

Dee

@TKDB

@Dee 

@ZeusAres42 

@Plaffelvohfen 

***** Why do you all, view the below as irrelevant?

What did Mr. Cruz write, that you disagree with? 

Why do you view the below as irrelevant?

What did Mr Dawkins write that you disagree with ?

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” 

― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

TKDB

@Dee

Mr Dawkins apparently enjoys the attention seeking, that he gets by saying such things, in,order I guess to profit off of it?

And then I'm guessing, he enjoys the accolades showered on him by some of his fanbase followers?

Dee

@TKDB ;

Mr Dawkins apparently enjoys the attention seeking, that he gets by saying such things, in,order I guess to profit off of it?
And then I'm guessing, he enjoys the accolades showered on him by some of his fanbase followers?

Mr Cruz apparently enjoys the attention seeking, that he gets by saying such things, in,order I guess to profit off of it?

And then I'm guessing, he enjoys the accolades showered on him by some of his fanbase followers?

ZeusAres42

TKDB said:

@Dee

Mr Dawkins apparently enjoys the attention seeking, that he gets by saying such things, in,order I guess to profit off of it?

And then I'm guessing, he enjoys the accolades showered on him by some of his fanbase followers?

Sealioning: A subtle form of trolling involving “bad-faith” questions. You disingenuously frame your conversation as a sincere request to be enlightened, placing the burden of educating you entirely on the other party. This is not a fallacy; it is more of a form of deception. As always, be careful in assuming you know the other person’s intent. On the surface, “sealioning” looks a lot like legitimate and honest Socratic inquiry. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/6/Pseudo-Logical-Fallacies

On Wikipedia, SEALIONING may refer to Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing.

Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".[5]

ZeusAres42

Dee said:

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” 

― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Given the Old Testament this is indeed correct.

ZeusAres42

Sand said:

@ZeusAres42

If a man creates artificial life and turns it off is it considered murder?

@sand Very good question. I like questions that make me think a bit more.

No, it's not murder. It is still however ending the artificial life. But could you elaborate on your point at all?

Sand

@ZeusAres42

Why wouldn't be murder? Is it because you can turn it back on?

I feel the same way.

To us, it is just science, you can always cut it back on.

Obviously, by giving artificial life artificial intelligence, we would create in the machine a form of self-awareness.

So to the machine, the cutting off may be viewed as murder.

Then we will assign the machine to tasks we do not want to perform, or tasks the machine could perform better.

We could see this in areas of factories or homes, where these machines would be purchased to be used at our will.

To us, this may not seem wrong.

But to the machine, it may consider the owning and nonpayment of service as slavery.

Some may not feel it proper to cut these machines off or own such machines.

They may work hard to have laws passed to prevent the harsh treatment of such machines.

But because they do not stop the process, does that mean they condone or endorse what others are doing?

Provided the Bible is correct and God does exist. This could be how God sees things also.

He created mankind and maybe knows how to undo death.

To God, it is probably just science.

It is true he allowed slavery to occur but does that mean he condones or endorses what others were doing?

Just giving a different perspective on things.

ZeusAres42

Sand said:

@ZeusAres42

Why wouldn't be murder? Is it because you can turn it back on?

I feel the same way.

To us, it is just science, you can always cut it back on.

Obviously, by giving artificial life artificial intelligence, we would create in the machine a form of self-awareness.

So to the machine, the cutting off may be viewed as murder.

Then we will assign the machine to tasks we do not want to perform, or tasks the machine could perform better.

We could see this in areas of factories or homes, where these machines would be purchased to be used at our will.

To us, this may not seem wrong.

But to the machine, it may consider the owning and nonpayment of service as slavery.

Some may not feel it proper to cut these machines off or own such machines.

They may work hard to have laws passed to prevent the harsh treatment of such machines.

But because they do not stop the process, does that mean they condone or endorse what others are doing?

Provided the Bible is correct and God does exist. This could be how God sees things also.

He created mankind and maybe knows how to undo death.

To God, it is probably just science.

It is true he allowed slavery to occur but does that mean he condones or endorses what others were doing?

Just giving a different perspective on things.

@sand While I may not agree entirely with this, I do have to say this is by far the best Theistic argument so far on this thread! It actually got me thinking about the scientific idea of "Simulation Theory" which can potentially interfere with one's cognitive dissonance. It can be rather disconcerting to think that we could actually already be artificial intelligence, controlled by some external entity. This can lead us to wonder if we are actually in control of our own actions or if we're being controlled.

Dr_Maybe

@ZeusAres42

There is no devil only god, he’s plenty evil all by himself.

Dr_Maybe

ZeusAres42 said:

Sand said:

@ZeusAres42

If a man creates artificial life and turns it off is it considered murder?

@sand Very good question. I like questions that make me think a bit more.

No, it's not murder. It is still however ending the artificial life. But could you elaborate on your point at all?

God doesn't kill people, people who believe in god kill people. People also get killed by natural disasters, floods, plagues, fires but not by god. As far as shutting off artificial life and the immorality of killing, if it's an artificial chicken it's okay, if it's an artificial pet dog it's not. If it's an artificial person it's not, unless it's been sentenced to death by a legitimate court of law.

Dr_Maybe

ZeusAres42 said:

TKDB said:

@Dee

Mr Dawkins apparently enjoys the attention seeking, that he gets by saying such things, in,order I guess to profit off of it?

And then I'm guessing, he enjoys the accolades showered on him by some of his fanbase followers?

Sealioning: A subtle form of trolling involving “bad-faith” questions. You disingenuously frame your conversation as a sincere request to be enlightened, placing the burden of educating you entirely on the other party. This is not a fallacy; it is more of a form of deception. As always, be careful in assuming you know the other person’s intent. On the surface, “sealioning” looks a lot like legitimate and honest Socratic inquiry. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/6/Pseudo-Logical-Fallacies

On Wikipedia, SEALIONING may refer to Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing.

Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity.[1][2][3][4] It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".[5]

Can someone show me an instance of Mr Dawkins "sealioning"?

TKDB

"God is far more evil than the Devil?"

Sure, God isn't more evil than the Devil is?

I guess it maybe depends, on which of the two, has the bigger Non Religion rap sheet?

If there could be such a thing?

Because millions of human beings, have earned themselves, their own, Non Religion based rap sheets, that go on for years, I believe? 


https://hirenetwork.org/content/state-rap-sheets-frequently-asked-questions

"RAP” stands for Record of Arrests and Prosecutions. A “rap sheet” is a record of an individual's criminal history i.e. any contact he or she may have had with the criminal justice system."

Dr_Maybe

TKDB said:

"God is far more evil than the Devil?"

Sure, God isn't more evil than the Devil is?

I guess it maybe depends, on which of the two, has the bigger Non Religion rap sheet?

If there could be such a thing?

Because millions of human beings, have earned themselves, their own, Non Religion based rap sheets, that go on for years, I believe? 



"RAP” stands for Record of Arrests and Prosecutions. A “rap sheet” is a record of an individual's criminal history i.e. any contact he or she may have had with the criminal justice system."

Maybe God is the Devil and there is no other thing.

TKDB

@Dr_Maybe

Can you provide legitimate proof to your theory?

"Maybe God is the Devil and there is no other thing."

I think that some of humanity, likes to speculate about God, and the Devil, through the artificial microscope of the internet.

The kind of verbalized speculation, that lacks the proper forensics, to prove a situation, outside the bordering of individualized speculation?

ZeusAres42

Dr_Maybe said:

Maybe God is the Devil and there is no other thing.

Actually, and quite interestingly that is one of or the main theory of the Christian Gnostic religious sect:

In spite of the diverse nature of the various Gnostic sects and teachers, certain fundamental elements serve to bind these groups together under the loose heading of "Gnosticism" or "Gnosis." Chief among these elements is a certain manner of "anti-cosmic world rejection" that has often been mistaken for mere dualism. According to the Gnostics, this world, the material cosmos, is the result of a primordial error on the part of a supra-cosmic, supremely divine being, usually called Sophia (Wisdom) or simply the Logos. This being is described as the final emanation of a divine hierarchy, called the Plêrôma or "Fullness," at the head of which resides the supreme God, the One beyond Being. The error of Sophia, which is usually identified as a reckless desire to know the transcendent God, leads to the hypostatization of her desire in the form of a semi-divine and essentially ignorant creature known as the Demiurge (Greek: dêmiourgos, "craftsman"), or Ialdabaoth, who is responsible for the formation of the material cosmos. This act of craftsmanship is actually an imitation of the realm of the Pleroma, but the Demiurge is ignorant of this, and hubristically declares himself the only existing God. At this point, the Gnostic revisionary critique of the Hebrew Scriptures begins, as well as the general rejection of this world as a product of error and ignorance, and the positing of a higher world, to which the human soul will eventually return. However, when all is said and done, one finds that the error of Sophia and the begetting of the inferior cosmos are occurrences that follow a certain law of necessity, and that the so-called "dualism" of the divine and the earthly is really a reflection and expression of the defining tension that constitutes the being of humanity---the human being.

https://www.iep.utm.edu/gnostic/

b. Christian Gnosticism

The Christian idea that God has sent his only "Son" (the Logos) to suffer and die for the sins of all humankind, and so make possible the salvation of all, had a deep impact on Gnostic thought. In the extensive and important collection of Gnostic writings discovered at Nag Hammadi, Egypt in 1945, only a handful present the possibility of having originated in a pre-Christian, mostly Hellenistic Jewish milieu. The majority of these texts are Christian Gnostic writings from the early second to late third centuries CE, and perhaps a bit later. When we consider the notion of salvation and its meaning for the early Gnostics, who stressed the creative aspect of our post-salvific existence, we are struck by the bold assertion that our need for salvation arose, in the first place, from an error committed by a divine being, Sophia (Wisdom), during the course of her own creative act (cf. Apocryphon of John [Codex II] 9:25-10:6). Since this is the case, how, we are led to ask, will our post-salvation existence be any less prone to error or ignorance, even evil? The radical message of early Christianity provided the answer to this problematical question; and so the Gnostics took up the Christian idea and transformed it, by the power of their singular mytho-logical technique, into a philosophically and theologically complex speculative schema.https://www.iep.utm.edu/gnostic/#SH2b

@Dr_Maybe

TKDB

@ZeusAres42

I continue to be educated:

"Actually, and quite interestingly that is one of or the main theory of the Christian Gnostic religious sect:"


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#Origins"

"Gnosticism"

This article possibly contains original research.

Not to be confused with Agnosticism.

Photograph in Nasiriya, Iraq of a house of worship of Mandaeism, a Gnostic sect from the first century AD that continues today.

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, "having knowledge") is a collection of ancient religious ideas and systems which originated in the first century CE among Jewish and early Christian groups.[1] These various sectarian groups, labeled "gnostics" by their opponents, emphasised personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) over faith in orthodox teachings and ecclesiastical authority. Gnostic beliefs flourished in the Mediterranean world until about the second century, when the Fathers of the early church attacked them as heretical.[2] In the Persian Empire, Gnostic ideas spread as far as China via Manichaeism, while Mandaeism is still alive in Iraq.

Generally, Gnosticism presents a distinction between a supreme, transcendent God and an evil demiurge “creator” of the material universe, the latter responsible for trapping the divine spark within matter. The Gnostics considered the most essential element of salvation to be direct personal knowledge of the supreme divinity, experienced as intuitive or esoteric insight. Most Gnostic thinkers dealt not in concepts of "sin" but with ignorance. Some early Gnostic teachers, the best known being Valentinus, saw their beliefs as aligned with Christianity. In the Gnostic Christian tradition, Christ is seen as a divine being which has taken human form in order to lead humanity back to the Light.[3] However, Gnosticism is not a single standardized system, and the emphasis on direct experience allows for a wide variety of teachings.

Most early scholarly knowledge of Gnosticism was limited to contemporaneous anti-heretical writings of orthodox Christian figures such as Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome. Renewed interest in Gnosticism occurred after the 1945 discovery of Egypt's Nag Hammadi library, a collection of rare early Christian and Gnostic texts including the Gospel of Thomas. A major question in scholarly research is the qualification of Gnosticism as either an interreligious phenomenon or as an independent religion. Scholars have acknowledged the influence of sources such as Hellenistic Judaism and Middle Platonism, and some have noted possible links to Neoplatonism and Buddhism, though the presence of direct influence from these latter sources is unverified.

EtymologyEdit

Main article: Gnosis

Gnosis refers to knowledge based on personal experience or perception. In a religious context, gnosis is mystical or esoteric knowledge based on direct participation with the divine. In most Gnostic systems, the sufficient cause of salvation is this "knowledge of" ("acquaintance with") the divine. It is an inward "knowing", comparable to that encouraged by Plotinus (neoplatonism), and differs from proto-orthodox Christian views.[4] Gnostics are "those who are oriented toward knowledge and understanding – or perception and learning – as a particular modality for living".[5]

The usual meaning of gnostikos in Classical Greek texts is "learned" or "intellectual", such as used by Plato in the comparison of "practical" (praktikos) and "intellectual" (gnostikos).[note 1] Plato's use of "learned" is fairly typical of Classical texts.[note 2]

By the Hellenistic period, it began to also be associated with Greco-Roman mysteries, becoming synonymous with the Greek term musterion. The adjective is not used in the New Testament, but Clement of Alexandria[note 3] speaks of the "learned" (gnostikos) Christian in complimentary terms.[6] The use of gnostikos in relation to heresy originates with interpreters of Irenaeus. Some scholars[note 4] consider that Irenaeus sometimes uses gnostikos to simply mean "intellectual",[note 5] whereas his mention of "the intellectual sect"[note 6] is a specific designation.[8][note 7][note 8][note 9]

The term "Gnosticism" does not appear in ancient sources,[10][note 10] and was first coined in the 17th century by Henry More in a commentary on the seven letters of the Book of Revelation, where More used the term "Gnosticisme" to describe the heresy in Thyatira.[11][note 11] The term Gnosticism was derived from the use of the Greek adjective gnostikos (Greek γνωστικός, "learned", "intellectual") by St. Irenaeus (c. 185 AD) to describe the school of Valentinus as he legomene gnostike haeresis "the heresy called Learned (gnostic)."[12][note 12]  "

@ZeusAres42

And to be equal and fair to the conversation:

Being Non God oriented, is completely voluntary.

And being Religious oriented, is completely voluntary as well.

And I thank my family, for giving me the opportunity to choose, through their openness,  if I want to be Religious oriented, or not?

And I'm proud of the Religious community, for doing the positive things, that they do, for their fellow citizens.

In times of joy, and in the times, when the lives of innocent parishioners were lost to the crimes of gun violence, because it helped to bring the communities together even more.

Dee

@ZeusAres42

Beware of the Sea Lion he’s bound to show 

ZeusAres42

@Dr_Maybe

Just letting you know that my last reply was to you but I just quoted you which you may not have got. Jus letting you know this so the relevant person knows who I was speaking to.

Dr_Maybe

ZeusAres42 said:

@Dr_Maybe

Just letting you know that my last reply was to you but I just quoted you which you may not have got. Jus letting you know this so the relevant person knows who I was speaking to.

Thanks, your post was really interesting.

Dr_Maybe

TKDB said:

@Dr_Maybe

Can you provide legitimate proof to your theory?

"Maybe God is the Devil and there is no other thing."

I think that some of humanity, likes to speculate about God, and the Devil, through the artificial microscope of the internet.

The kind of verbalized speculation, that lacks the proper forensics, to prove a situation, outside the bordering of individualized speculation?

You seem offended are you religious?

kakalam777

@대왕광개토
Not what I know, just in case you are wondering, I am from Islamic faith which is extension of Abrahamic faiths,  but we don't have such conditions, we have faiths+conscious actions as a means to enter paradise and your full recompense will be here or in hereafter depending upon your conscious actions or deeds.
Meaning you can't enter paradise just by saying you believe, In life you will be constantly tested for what you love and what you hate but you have to demonstrate control and patience through your actions. 

Dee

@kakalam777

***/ we have faiths+conscious actions as a means to enter paradise and your full recompense will be here or in hereafter depending upon your conscious actions or deeds.

Will the 53 year old Mohammed be in paradise with his 8 year old child bride Aisha? In fairness he was betrothed to her when she was 6 but being a “gentleman “ he waited till she was 8 before consumating

kakalam777

@Dee You do realise your statement is offending to people who are financially poor to feed their daughter and educate them, I am talking about both medieval and historic times. You are just insulting their poverty and financial situation and their decision for their daughter to have a inheritance, in a cover of derogatory terminology like paedophilia. A religion is not  useful if it doesn't solve real life situations,  [Do excuse my language]
Lets take real life Ancient Arabia scenario:

We talking about Ancient Arabia here. Past in Ancient Arab, where females were considered burden and buried alive at infancy, and this prophet comes and tells them to stop. Then people who listened had children and the new girl progeny which are born is still a burden for them financial or socially and Adoption is not a option, they buried their own daughter do you think it is even possible they will raise others? So, How will you integrate these new females into society giving them a proper status, when you don't want to upbringing them to adulthood yourself? because at the end the community does not have any ruling for not having sex with pubert girls, whether the male is young or old. No matter how disgusted you are, it is not immoral if the society says it moral. So your opinion means nothing for ancient Arabs. Morality standards of today cannot be used to judge ancient cultures unless there is a moral law stating the same in that ancient culture. So lets continue, to integrate these young girls who are becoming burden for some families, what are their options?

1. Make them slaves and give slave status, eventually they will be used for sex.

2. Make them wives, and give them wife status and make them family, and sex is inevitable

3. Put them in brothels and used for sex again.

4. Bury them back alive again. This was normal practice

5. Human trafficking to other places, for same as sex objects

Since you claim Mohammed is paedophile and what he did was immoral, give me a moral solution of above scenario?

Because ancient world mentality was like that, if you can't use them why have them? And you can't use adopted daughters or your own daughter for self benefit to have sons. They marry multiple times to have more heirs. poor can't afford to feed daughters so they buried them. 

So which way would you have them ?

Give me a non-paedophilic solution that can solve real life situation do you think your sophism solves world problems?

kakalam777

@Dee ;
since you called me on my post in another thread I am going to be extremely crass, rude and offensive...I do apologise for my statements beforehand though.

My Question is 

CAN YOU EVEN SHITTY FIND SOLUTION? Ok shithead you give me opinions, we talking about Ancient Arabia here. Past in Ancient Arab, where female were considered burden and buried alive at infancy, and this prophet comes and tells them to stop. Then the new girl progeny which are born is still a burden financially and socially and Adoption is not a option, they buried their own daughters do you think they will adopt and raise others? So, How will you integrate these new females into society with a best status, when you don't want to up-bring them to adulthood yourself due to culture and financial crises?

1. Make them slaves and give slave status and f--k them.

2. Make them wives, and give them wife status and f--k them.

3. Put them in brothels and f--k them.

4. Bury them back alive again. which was normal.

5. Human trafficking to other places to be f--ked.

Rich say why have them when you can't use them Poor say why keep them when you can't feed them. Those that can afford already had slaves for labours.

Since you claim Mohammed is wrong and what he did was immoral, give a moral solution of above scenario.

Because ancient worlds mentality was like that, if you can't use them why have them? And you can't use adopted daughters or your own daughter for self benefit for. They marry multiple times to have more heirs.

So which way would you have them f--ked?

Give me a non-pedophilic solution  that can solve real life situation do you think your  sophism solves world problems?

PRESENT DAY: Poverty stricken people can only marry child when they fear their poverty can't feed her and educate her, causing death. Your immoral accusation is mere prejudice to those life situation of poor people in a sophisticated way. Your morality standards are merely insulting their poverty stricken situation, you bigot, do you think religion is only for rich and moderate and financially stable people, what about poor population? Is your reprehension turning into Pearl's and diamonds, and falling down on poor people and helping them financially. You can shove immorality up your if you can't provide these poor people an adoption option, take their daughter as paid labour or financially help them, which your are not doing, so stick your stupidity in your if you can't solve the real life situations of these poor.

I don't condone child marriage. So if you want to stop child marriage in today's day and age, I would also recommend adoption to these poor families. Or support financially so that they won't marry the girl. Understand. Your shitty emotions and disgust is not solving real life problems. And religion is for all, and those who can afford upbringing are told to NOT marry kids till they are adults.

Present day 3rd world country, they give their daughters to brothels or as slaves. Well if they were Muslims this is not allowed you can't give family for slavery or brothel, it's better to marry a old guy who is about to die, so that she can inherit property and also do her schooling using his money be stable in her later lives, and later marry someone else. People loose virginity in schools, so who cares if you marry off a child? At least she will have stability and social upgrade. Do old dudes have a 24/7 boner? Heck you can't get a morning wood after 40 years of age and you talk as if these old dudes will a little girl daily. Can they not get an adult wife for that at the same time? This is why multiple marriage is applicable.

Your mentality is not helping real life situations these ideas that Mohammed gave in Islamic jurisprudence does.

kakalam777

My previous post I made in a polite speech totally disappeared and it really pissed me, so I copy pasted my reddit response which were crass, and this really suits my current grumpy mood.

Dee

@kakalam777

**** Give me a non-pedophilic solution  that can solve real life situation do you think your  sophism solves world problems?

So all peoples of Arabia buried their daughters alive and the peado Muhammad was doing them a favour?

You also admit the solution was peadophillia and you revere that piece of dog Muhammad for coming up with such a “brilliant “ plan” .....A filthy dog 

kakalam777

Duh did you not read Arab history? they buried their daughter and they used to marry young girls already for more heirs, child marriage was nothing new because the mortality rate was high, people used to die eaily due to various hygiene or hunger. So where did your paedophila come from when child marriage was already around for 4000 years ago? it came form your sick fetishes to abduct girls for sexual pleasures that is often seen in your community, I have not seen it happen in the community I live in since my childhood. I only came to know about it in my late 20s, Marriage is a socially accepted mutual contract in my society, if not by the girl, her father can clearly state stipulation, for girls education and no sex till her maturity.

Do you even know the core of moral compass of Islam. If you don't know then you know s--t.

Yes I revere at his brilliance because he stopped innocent children from getting killed and gave a options to poverty stricken people to marry of their children to good old men who can control s-xual desires and can support the life and education of their daughter.
Unlike you who only trash talk and can't even give real life solutions. A religion is useless if its not practical. And your reprehension for child marriage is not practical and does not help some girl in one corner of the world to have food in her stomach and social upgrade in society.

We do have adoption options now, donation options now which people often use. Let me ask you something in 2008 a 8 yr old was married to a 70yr old man because the father couldn't afford it to feed her, this journalist went there, reported to news as a case of child marriage but no one bothered to financially support the father even after he made it to the news and no body went forward for paid education donation for the girl or called for a divorce from that old man why? where did people of your mentality that child marriage was immoral go then, were it sleeping in your as$? When you are not doing anything to solve the problems of real world and upheld your views, you have no rights to condemn others what they do for their own social upgrading.

Dee

@kakalam777


***

Duh did you not read Arab history?

Yes , you are totally ignorant of it and not fit to speak of it 

**** they buried their daughter and they used to marry young girls already for more heirs,

Yet Aisha was from a wealthy family so who was threatening to bury her?

***child marriage was nothing new because the mortality rate was high, people used to die eaily due to various hygiene or hunger. So where did your paedophila come from when child marriage was already around for 4000 years ago?

Yet you just said Muhammad being a peadophile was because he was saving a girl from being buried alive, which I’ve just proved is nonsense

**** it came form your sick fetishes to abduct girls for sexual pleasures that is often seen in your community, 

It doesn’t happen here yet it’s common place in Muslim societies where child brides are the norm , so tell me is that beacuse they are still burying young girls alive 

***have not seen it happen in the community I live in since my childhood

Read the filthy Quran and Hadiths it’s there aplenty 

****I only came to know about it in my late 20s,

Really? No one told you about Muhammad’s lust for kids till then , interesting 

***Marriage is a socially accepted mutual contract in my society,

Welcome to society 

****If not by the girl, her father can clearly state stipulation, for girls education and no sex till her maturity. 

Fantastic ,oh to be a Muslim 

***Do you even know the core of moral compass of Islam. If you don't know then you know s--t.

Kill the infidels and spread Islam by the sword .....oh and take child brides .....did I miss anything?

***Yes  I revere at his brilliance

A mentally unbalanced peadophile ......indeed 

***because he stopped innocent children from getting killed and gave a options to poverty stricken people to marry of their children


Yet Aisha was from a wealthy family and tell me if you were in poverty you would give your daughter to a peadophile for money wow!

 ***to good old men who can control s-xual desires and can support the life and education of their daughter. 
Unlike you who only trash talk and can't even give real life solutions.

You mean like give a 6 year old to a 53 year old peadophile .....isn’t Islam wonderful?

****A religion is useless if its not practical

They’re all useless 

.****And your reprehension for child marriage is not practical and does not help some girl in one corner of the world to have food in her stomach and social upgrade in society.

Right , so sell 6 year olds to peadophile you’re one sick puppy 

***We do have adoption options now, donation options now which people often use. 

Fabulous isn’t it?

***Let me ask you something in 2008 a 8 yr old was married to a 70yr old man because the father couldn't afford it to feed her,

Sick bastards 

***A  journalist went there, reported to news as a case of child marriage but no one bothered to financially support the father even after he made it to the news and no body went forward for paid education donation for the girl or called for a divorce from that old man why? where did people of your mentality that child marriage was immoral go then, were it sleeping in your as$? When you are not doing anything to solve the problems of real world and upheld your views, you have no rights to condemn others what they do for their own social upgrading.

That last piece makes no sense what are you babbling about?

TKDB

@Dr_Maybe

"You seem offended are you religious?"

Nope, I'm pro family, pro children, pro community, and pro Atheist, and pro Religious Freedom.

While the Non Religious, I'm not sure what they are, outside of being their pro Non Religious selves? 

kakalam777

@Dee
Its still poverty , child marriage are often seen in extremely poor families, no middle class person does child marriage, because if you have money you are suppose to educate daughters. Its unanimous consensuses. Do you not read all the points? are you speed reading, why are you missing so many points even after quoting so many? are you cherry picking and splitting hair's end? you just seem very prejudiced about my religion, and that is blatant religious discrimination in a debate thread, and you were the first person to be rude for calling me , when all I did was honestly thought you created that thread with that silly statement. Who the Islamic prophet married is irrelevant, what is relevant is he gave a option to avoid deaths due to poverty or making parents sell their children as slaves and to brothels, which I might add still happens right now as we speak.

Dee

@kakalam777

**** Its still poverty , child marriage are often seen in extremely poor families, 

Aisha wasn’t from a poor family 

***no middle class person does child marriage, because if you have money you are suppose to educate daughters. Its unanimous consensuses. 

What are you on about?

**//Do you not read all the points? are you speed reading, why are you missing so many points even after quoting so many? 

I do yes bottom line is you worship a peadophile 

***are you cherry picking and splitting hair's end? 

You mean like how you defend a child rapist?

***you just seem very prejudiced about my religion, and that is blatant religious discrimination in a debate thread

I dislike Islam and it’s not prejudice to dislike a religion that treats women like dogs , yes of course it’s discrimination to talk against child rape that’s hows you’s get away with it 

, ***and you were the first person to be rude for calling me ,

I called you that because you kept accusing me in the wrong and hadn’t the balls to admit it 

***when all I did was honestly thought you created that thread with that silly statement.

Yet like child you couldn’t apologise 


 ***Who the Islamic prophet married is irrelevant,

It’s not , to you it is because it allows to deny Muhammad was a child abuser 

***what is relevant is he gave a option to avoid deaths due to poverty or making parents sell their children as slaves and to brothels, which I might add still happens right now as we speak.

An option of being abused by a 53 year old how fantastic , where I live people do not sell their kids into slavery but then again we’re not Muslims 

kakalam777

It’s not , to you it is because it allows to deny Muhammad was a child abuser 

you support daughter abusing by incest you are in the least position to say he abused her.

Dee

****quote my words where I said this? As always like the Muslim coward you are Osama you resort to lying 

@kakalam777

ZeusAres42

@TKDB

You're entitled to your own subjective sense of how you perceive God, the devil, Bible, and religion in general as well as how you perceive those who are not religious in general, TKDB. Good for you for having your own highly sought after opinionated agenda-driven concepts and that you conjure them up to express them via the microscopic realm of the Internet?

I prefer to see reality as it is though. But each to their own.

RickeyD

@ZeusAres42 Those who suggest God the Father, our Creator - Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, our God, is evil reminds me of the insolent, spoiled, child who hates his father because of loving discipline that stymies the destructive aberrant desires of the wayward child. The comparison/contrast between God the Father and the god of this age, Satan, is an argument often used by the atheist as they make a futile attempt to justify their rebellion and denial of the God they intuitively know exists (Romans 1:18-32).

God the Father is accused of evil in the Covenant of Law as He dealt with the vile, wicked, generation of Noah and the insolence, hatred, displayed by the Egyptian Pharaoh in the Passover. First of all, understand that Satan, the rebellious cherub angel that initiated a coup de taut in the Kingdom of God before the creation of Time, is the root-cause for all evil and that God, Who is perfect in holiness, love, justice, simply responds to the evil of Satan and his work in Time.

God is not the Author of evil thought the King James translators incorrectly accuse God of evil in Isaiah 45:7 as the translators confuse the Hebrew "ra" with evil when, in context, the proper translation is "calamity." God is not the Author of moral evil but evil exists as the default of free will, of love and peace. In order for love to exist in purity and authenticity, one must possess the ability to hate; in order for righteousness to exist, one must possess the ability to choose evil; God is not the Author of evil but has permitted its "possibility" to exist in order that free will can manifest in the lives of both His angelic and human creation.

1. The Pharaoh and the Death Angel

The Pharaoh had been warned multiple times to free the Hebrew Slaves but he refused and God, who cannot lie (Numbers 23:19), fulfilled the prophecy of salvation/liberation concerning the Hebrew people from a land that would hold them captive as slaves for 400-years (Genesis 15:12-14). Though the Scriptures articulate that God hardened the Pharaoh’s heart, let it be known that God only used and subsequently allowed to manifest what was already present in the Pharaoh’s inner-man i.e. stubbornness, cruelty, deceit (Psalm 139:2).

It is written concerning the Hebrew’s future enslavement and God’s promise of deliverance

Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, terror and great darkness fell upon him. 13 God said to Abram, “Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, where they will be enslaved and oppressed four hundred years. 14 But I will also judge the nation whom they will serve, and afterward they will come out with many possessions. Genesis 15:12-14 (NASB)

1) Susan, you suggest that God, if He were fair and compassionate, would have killed the Pharaoh as opposed to the first-born of Egypt, but the death of Pharaoh would not have freed the Hebrew slaves but only embittered the Egyptian hierarchy resulting in increased cruelty toward the Hebrews and exponentially increasing their suffering.

2) Susan, in your unbelief, as you desire to mock God for His judgment upon the Pharaoh, the Egyptian people, remember that the Passover initiated by this Judgment on Egypt also represents the mercy of God given YOU at the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ as Christ is our Passover Lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7).

The lamb to be slain in Egypt was to be without defect (perfect) and the blood of that spotless lamb was to be painted upon the sides and tops of the door-frames (Exodus 12:4-7) in order that the Death Angel would “pass-over” that home. This edict of our Lord to the Hebrew slaves was also a Messianic prophecy to be fulfilled by the “Lamb of God” (Messiah Yeshua) whose innocent blood would stain the cross-member and upright of a Roman Cross in Jerusalem, Israel.

As the Lord commanded the Hebrew people to paint the blood of a lamb (sheep or goat) upon the doorposts so that the death-angel would “pass-over” their home and spare the first-born from death, so does the innocent blood of Messiah on that Roman Cross provide mankind a way of escape from death in sin and death in Hell (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Concerning Jesus as our Passover Lamb

“knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.” (1 Peter 1:18-19)

3) Every child that died in somber sleep that horrific night in Egypt was fully secure in our Lord because God does not hold culpable those lacking sufficient cognitive maturity to discern right from wrong, moral from immoral (Romans 5:12-14); therefore, every child that died in Egypt on that Passover Night was saved and they are now, in their disembodied spiritual state, secure in our Lord forever, fully conscious and fully aware, in His Kingdom as I type this. Had these Egyptian children matured in Egypt’s pagan culture, they would have died and ended-up in Sheol/Torments (Luke 16) and eventually they would face Judgment in Eternity and subsequently lose their resurrected body and soul in Hell forever (Revelation 20:11-15; Matthew 10:28).

The Lord’s judgment upon the Pharaoh was keeping with God’s faithfulness to His written word/prophecy and the liberation of the Hebrew slaves while the Judgment upon the first-born was actually God’s compassion and mercy as those children received Eternal life with God forever as opposed to dying in sin and Hell without hope!

————————————

2. Noah’s generation and The Flood and atheistic hypocrisy

Like the incident with Pharaoh and the Death Angel/the Passover, the atheist is quick to accuse our Creator of genocide, murder, infanticide, as a result of The Flood. I must chuckle slightly when I think about the hypocrisy of the deceived atheist as they’re quick to cuddle-up to Darwin and heretical “scholars” who deny the Noahic Flood and the Exodus, but when it fits their demonic narrative, the atheist is quick to use the Exodus and The Flood scenarios to accuse God of being a sadistic maniac.

The Flood – sociological causation

Subsequent to The Fall of Adam/mankind and the curse upon the Human Genome as a result of that Fall culminating in spiritual death and physiological death, mankind began a rather expedient/exponential fall into violence and sexual debauchery-immorality as demonstrated by the generation of Noah along with the Nephilim that were present in the land at that time. The Holy Spirit describes Noah’s generation thusly…

“Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.” Genesis 6:5-8 (NASB)

Beginning with Genesis 3:15, immediately subsequent to The Fall of Adam, we see our Creator preparing to bring forth His Messiah through the seed of the woman (a virgin) and this prophecy tells us that Messiah, the One who would defeat the works of Lucifer, would be victorious and conquer sin and death. Ultimately, this was accomplished at the Crucifixion some 4000-years later.

Concerning the curse on Lucifer and the impending struggle with Messiah

“And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.” Genesis 3:15 (NASB)

The generation that arose between the time of Adam and Noah (pre-flood) had become so wicked and vile that our Lord refused to set-apart a people group through whom He would bring forth His Messiah. Our Lord used the testimony of Noah’s work on the Ark to warn that wicked generation, much like God warned the Pharaoh, of the coming judgment; unfortunately, much like the hardened atheist today, Noah’s generation mocked, ridiculed, and refused to listen.

Speaking of Noah’s silent preaching/warning through the construction of the Ark

“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7 and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8 (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9 then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.” 2 Peter 2:4-10 (NASB)

God’s salvation to the World through judgment by water

Because of the wickedness of Noah’s generation, God chose to save righteous Noah and the seven-members of Noah’s family and destroy the wicked seed of that pre-flood generation in order to begin anew and further His Plan to bless the World through the coming Messiah. Subsequent to the Noahic Flood, we see our Lord set-apart a people group specifically for Himself via the patriarchy of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob AKA Israel.

Speaking of the Jewish people

“’Thus you are to be holy to Me, for I the LORD am holy; and I have set you apart from the peoples to be Mine.” Leviticus 20:26 (NASB)

Concerning the coming Messiah and the Jewish people, our Lord prophesies to Abraham,

“And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.” Genesis 12:3 (NASB)

Had our Lord not begun anew with a generation born from the favorable lineage of Noah but permitted the wicked and vile pre-flood generation to exponentially increase in number and in vile-sexual-violent debauchery, our Messiah would have never entered into the World and all of mankind would have been ultimately condemned to die in sin and die in Hell; thereby, thwarting God’s Plan of victory over Lucifer, sin, death, Hell, the grave.

The children of the wicked pre-flood generation, like the children of Egypt at the Passover, those children not having attained an age of reason/accountability possessing sufficient discernment to differentiate between good v. evil, right v. wrong, those children were saved by our Lord upon death of the body and their disembodied spirit, fully cognizant and fully aware, is now present with our Lord in the Kingdom of God awaiting the resurrection of the righteous (John 5:29).

Conclusion

In both scenarios, the Pharaoh and the Noahic Flood, we see our God’s justice, righteousness, truthfulness, compassion, abound and the wise man and woman will internalize the surety of God’s judgment and wrath toward the rebellious and wicked while God’s compassion and forgiveness blankets the righteous, the humble, the faithful.

Mankind, if wise, will learn from these scenarios and find life in God’s Plan through Jesus Christ as Lord -or- if unwise, mankind will choose to reject God’s warning through these examples in Scripture and ultimately die in sin and die in Hell in God’s wrath and righteous judgment.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord. 9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9 (NASB)

Rickey D. Holtsclaw

Dee

@RickeyD

Interesting piece and of course you would say that on account of the cognitive dissonance most believers have. The Christian god as depicted in the bile is the essence of evil as he approves of slavery , pestilence , slaughter ,child sacrifice ,  rape , infanticide an abortion to name a few , this despicable tyrant murders , maims and destroys his subjects 25 million (low estimate) Satan kills jobs family because god goaded him into doing so , Satan only crime was to question the tyrant and he’s the bad guy you’re brainwashed mate 

RickeyD

The God of Scripture does not "approve" of those things but deals with them effectively as He was maneuvering, directing, protecting, a people group whom He has set-apart for His specific and holy purposes i.e. the Hebrew Nation, the Israelite's. It is rather hypocritical of the atheist, the sodomite, the abortion advocate, of today to judge God operating in a historical period where men and women were exceptionally evil in paganism and the norms, mores, of those days would be unconscionable in our modern age.

God's focus through the Israelite's was the bringing forth of Messiah who would provide atonement for sin in order that mankind could find redemption and life by faith in the Son of God. Far too often, the atheist, moral relativist, accuses God of that which they do NOT understand while they cut their nose off to spite their face in spiritual ignorance leading to death in sin and death in Hell via the rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of sin.

ZeusAres42

@Dee

Isn't there an actual change in personality and characteristic in the God of the new testament if I am remembering correctly? If I am remembering correctly the God in the New Testament was nothing like the one in the old testament although could be said to have had issues. And yet for some reason, people on this thread continue to defend the God of the Old Testament, and not a single person on this thread has made the distinciton bewteen the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament yet.

Dee

@ZeusAres42

It is indeed interesting I’ve remarked like you on this before. Imagine that their god the source  of their objective morality changes into a revised and new calmer god ( maybe he had therapy) 

Remember though in the New Testament Jesus and god still totally approved of slavery , old habits die hard I guess
 

Dee

@RickeyD

****The God of Scripture does not "approve" of those things but deals with them effectively as He was maneuvering, directing, protecting, a people group whom He has set-apart for His specific and holy purposes i.e. the Hebrew Nation, the Israelite's. 

Of course he approves , why would he do it otherwise?

***It is rather hypocritical of the atheist, the sodomite, the abortion advocate, of today to judge God operating in a historical period where men and women were exceptionally evil in paganism and the norms, mores, of those days would be unconscionable in our modern age. 

It’s not , I’m morally superior to the evil entity you call god it’s rather hypocritical of it to judge his moral superiors 

What wrong with paganism? If men and women were “evil “ he knew they would be so when he created them so what sort of god would do so?

****God's focus through the Israelite's was the bringing forth of Messiah who would provide atonement for sin in order that mankind could find redemption and life by faith in the Son of God. 

Pure B S 

***Far too often, the atheist, moral relativist, accuses God of that which they do NOT understand 

 I perfectly understand to murder 25  million of your creations makes you morally reprehensible 

**** while they cut their nose off to spite their face in spiritual ignorance leading to death in sin and death in Hell via the rejection of Jesus Christ as Lord for the mediation of sin.

Save it for Sunday I don’t but that B S 

RickeyD

@Dee Dee, you're free to hate God as you're free to die in your sin and die in Hell by rejecting the pardon offered you by Jesus Christ. You have made your mind up to not listen, to not love, to not consider the Truth of our Lord who gave His all so that you can live. If you have one relevant question, ask it...your blanket denial of truth is as impotent as your life lived in atheism.

Dee

@RickeyD

**** Dee, you're free to hate God as you're free to die

Your god to me is a fiction , I detest this fictitious character as depicted in the bile 

***in your sin

Whats sin? 

***and die in Hell

Another fiction 

***by rejecting the pardon offered you by Jesus Christ.

You’re talking nonsense 


 ****You have made your mind up to not listen,

I don’t listen to B S fro the bile 

*** to not love,

I love enough consider slavery moral unlike your god 

****to not consider the Truth of our Lord who gave His all so that you can live. 

More gibberish 

****If you have one relevant question, ask it...

Why does your god and Jesus approve of owning people as property?

 ***blanket   denial of truth is as impotent as your life lived in atheism. 

I don’t deny truth , bet you will though when you attempt to justify slavery 

My life is great , takes a moralizing bile thumper like you to justify slavery , yet that fact makes your life “potent “ no doubt