Why Does Hamas Target Israeli Civilians Instead Of Military Targets?

Dee

@Galvanise

Yes I'm on the same page Sanders would have been a good choice

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved


I think it's not a very morally high idea


But why would I care what an id_ otic American apologist for brutalisers of children thinks?  You support animals who  rape , torture and maim fellow humans 


We in civilsed  countries are agreed regards Israels apartheid  terrorist activities , you on the other hand come from a country where you people want women jailed for exercising bodily autonomy , go away you neanderthal 



From UN 

In the general debate under agenda item seven on the human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab territories, speakers said any attempts to undermine the agenda item would further erode the reliability of the United Nations system and normalise occupation in international norms.  Israel’s continued policies and practices had resulted in flagrant human rights violations and abuses, including brutalisation of children, torture, forcible transfers, and colonisation of land.  Israel had no interest in achieving a just peace, and committed war crimes, crimes against humanity, and the crime of apartheid

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Some More Humor

WHEN A FLY FALLS INTO A CUP OF COFFEE

The Italian – throws the cup, breaks it, and walks away in a fit of rage.
The German – carefully washes the cup, sterilizes it and makes a new cup of coffee.
The Frenchman – takes out the fly, and drinks the coffee.
The Irishman – eats the fly and throws away the coffee.
The Russian – Drinks the coffee with the fly, since it was extra with no charge.
The Israeli – invents a device that prevents flies from falling into coffee.
The Palestinian – blames the Israeli for the fly falling into his coffee, protests the act of aggression to the UN, takes a loan from the European Union to buy a new cup of coffee, uses the money to purchase explosives and then blows up the coffee house where the Italian, the Frenchman, the Chinese, the German and the Russian are all trying to explain to the Israeli that he should give away his cup of coffee to the Palestinian so there will be peace.

Dee

@JulesKorngold

Cool down you need a shower , you guys hate to hear someone say that you keep falling for it ......

Dee

@Galvanise


Kornfed has been disciplined,  I'm still laughing at his " I demand the site is shutdown as only I should be allowed display bigotry " a vile  little toad 

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Who Got Banned?

Galvanise said:

@Dee

Korngold is simply a bully and a coward.

...Says the banned fool.  Loooooool  

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

1 : "Not a lot " 9,000 is quiet a lot, how about you give me an argument around that?

9,000 what? You just pulled a number out of your a$$ without any context. You mind actually saying what does the 9000 mean?

2: The list I sent was only a sample of Israeli terrorist attacks and you couldn't even address that 

I did, I literally took a higher estimate of 832 deaths from the page you cited. I addressed it in its entirety and substance. Why do you say I didn't address it?

3: So under your definition Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of American terrorism., at last agreement 

They weren't as the alternative would've resulted in far more civilian casualties(a land invasion of Japan). If this was terrorism, than this was terrorism to prevent the needless loss of lives.

 4: No,what I actually mean is Israel.has been cited for hundreds of human rights abuses and atrocities do you still wish to.deny this?

Where are you getting the number "hundreds" from?

5:From the formation  of the state of Israel.Ben Gurion put forward a plan for ethnic cleansing , you've already taking a previous pasting in that debate   I'm not going to school you again.

No it wasn't. Because under plan Dalet(where this controversy arrives), the vast majority of the refugees from the war left on their own accord. And those that were evicted, were done so on the premises of security and resistance, rather than ethnicity.
I covered this extensively in previous threads. I don't understand why you keep bringing up the same flawed claim.
A question for you to answer: If Israel practiced ethnic cleansing, why were there over 150,000 Arabs left in Israel after the war?

6:Targeting children's  schools ,hospitals and shopping centers is terrorism , you actually refuse to condemn your buddies Kornfed and Jack for claiming to." enjoy " such , so tell me why.you support the slaughter of ordinary people?

Not unless those are military bases. Israel uses a policy of roof-knocking which gives civilians time to evacuate, thus avoiding civilian deaths. Were Israel practicing policy of slaughtering civilians(as you claimed), why would it do such aforementioned policies?
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/the-story-of-idfs-innovative-tactic-to-avoid-civilian-casualties-in-gaza-663170

7:You persist with your irrelevant red herring of a question and attempt to endorse state terrorism.by introducing a weak  reinterpretation of terrorism , you've admitted Isreal is a terrorist state using your own reinterpretation , well done you.

How was the question irrelevant? It pertained perfectly to your own implied definition of terrorism. Speaking of which, to call an act a terrorist act, you first have to define it, or else this argument is useless.
Israel is not a terrorist state because it doesn't go out of its way to kill civilians on a regular basis. And you have yet to demonstrate this is the case.

You've lost ......again.

Were you to have won or been winning, there wouldn't have been a need to claim so as such a fact would've been self-evident, right?
Unless of course, you are unsure or have doubts of such a premise, and are publicly claiming victory to calm your own insecurities, correct?

You support animals who  rape , torture and maim fellow humans 

Do you have any evidence that Israel currently commits such acts in a systemic, organized, and deliberate manner today?


You addressed virtually none of my argument in actually. You have clearly made little attempt to actually debate with my points. So this debate is probably useless, as is talking with a brick wall.
The fact of the matter is that Israel has completed relatively few war crimes when compared to the vast majority of nations in the world, if any. While Hamas regularly uses human shields and calls for the destruction of Israel and destruction to Jews.
How can you then, possible call the former as a terrorist state, while call the latter a group of freedom fighters?? Such a claim should deserve no serious response. However I give one for the sake of the audience, and in that they do not hear the echo's of blatant bigotry and bias.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Hamas Is A Terrorist Organization

Both freedom fighters and terrorists want to change something. 

Freedom fighters use peaceful ways to make changes, like having protests or talking to the government to find a solution. They want to make things better and fairer for everyone. 

Terrorists use violent ways to try to make changes, like suicide attacks, targeting innocent people, and using human shields. They may want to make things better too but they cause a lot of problems and hurt innocent people. 

So, freedom fighters are like firefighters who try to make things better and terrorists are like bullies and arsonists.

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved

1:
How would you know I pulled a "number out my a-s" you d-mb brute if you don't even know what it related to?

That's in relation to injuries as a result of Israeli attacks you Troll.  You cannot even keep up with what I said in my last piece 

2,; How could you address the whole list when I only posted a small section of it?

I then posted a piece from the UN with the figures which of course you ignored 

3: Ah right so terrorism is fine if it prevents the needless loss of lives 
Japan was on its knees you clot ,Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of terrorism .

American revisionist history is truly hilarious 

4: The UN, Amnesty just to start you know those organisations the US detests as they expose American backed atrocities and show you lot up for your appalling double standards 

5:I've already schooled you in that debate Using your own sources against you 

6: Making up nonsense doesn't stack up, everything you say is tripe pulled from your a-s 

The question I asked was why you kiss Kornfed feet and support his so called enjoyment of Palestinians getting blown to bits in shopping centres?

7: I didn't give a definition of terrorism as Hamas are freedom fighters so what's this talk of terrorism?

8: But you admit you don't know if 1+ 1 = 2 or 3 proving everything you say you're not sure of as you're that st-pid you ran a million miles away from my way of proving this to yourself, remember the way you exposed your st-pidity to the entire site and kept your mouth firmly shut when your st- pidity in print was pointed out to you 

9: You deny evidence you do it every time you've been given list after list in the past and all you do is ignore or poision the well by screeching " that souce is biased "

You previously took a severe thumping on the whole topic and actually claimed the founder of the state of Israel didn't say what he actually said .

The state of Israel uses rape ,torture,  brutality ,children as human shields ,uses apartheid to achieve its aims , it a nation of cowards, bullies and bigots supported by a bigot and biased mouthpiece like you. for state terrorism 

Dee

@JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Hamas Is A Terrorist Organization

Argument Topic : Israel are a nation that uses state  terrorism to brutalise others 

Both freedom fighters and terrorists want to change something. 

Yes Hamas has goals , so do state terrorists like Israel 

Freedom fighters use peaceful ways to make changes,

Nonsense,  tell me what" peaceful " ways would appease Jewish bullies?

 like having protests or talking to the government to find a solution. They want to make things better and fairer for everyone. 

Ha , Ha you truly are a moron if that's the case how did  talking to the German government aid the Jews in Hitlers Germany ? You really do come out with some truly ridiculous nonsense 

Terrorists use violent ways to try to make changes, like suicide attacks, targeting innocent people, and using human shields

Yes , I agree Israeli " tactics " are terrorism 


. They may want to make things better too but they cause a lot of problems and hurt innocent people. 

Boo hoo 

So, freedom fighters are like firefighters who try to make things better and terrorists are like bullies 

I agree again the state of Israel are bullies

JulesKorngold

Dee said:

@JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Hamas Is A Terrorist Organization

Argument Topic : Israel are a nation that uses state  terrorism to brutalise others 

Both freedom fighters and terrorists want to change something. 

Yes Hamas has goals , so do state terrorists like Israel 

Freedom fighters use peaceful ways to make changes,

Nonsense,  tell me what" peaceful " ways would appease Jewish bullies?

 like having protests or talking to the government to find a solution. They want to make things better and fairer for everyone. 

Ha , Ha you truly are a moron if that's the case how did  talking to the German government aid the Jews in Hitlers Germany ? You really do come out with some truly ridiculous nonsense 

Terrorists use violent ways to try to make changes, like suicide attacks, targeting innocent people, and using human shields

Yes , I agree Israeli " tactics " are terrorism 


. They may want to make things better too but they cause a lot of problems and hurt innocent people. 

Boo hoo 

So, freedom fighters are like firefighters who try to make things better and terrorists are like bullies 

I agree again the state of Israel are bullies

Predictable nonsense.

Dee

@JulesKorngold

You sure do spout predictable rubbish I agree

Seems your buddies at the ADL.are ignoring you now bwahahahshahahaha 

Dee

@Galvanise

The scum bag and his fellow scumbags define terrorism and then hilariously state like the minesub " it's not terrorism if Israeli forces do it" 

John_C_87

@JulesKorngold

Why does Hamas target civilians is simple the fight is a Civil war. Israel does not have a Military they have an Armed Service any nation which has adopted the addition of females into the ranks of soldier is now an Armed Service in whole truth. In America we have Civil litigation to that for this not a united States Constitutional right then defended as legal action, it was illegal for a woman to serve in the Military, not because females are women the grievance is due to lack of constitutional preservation on behalf of women as a United State. They, women took the self-evident truth “all men are created equal by their creator” In the wrong way. A Military Service was to preserve, protect, and defend the Untied State of America which was held in American Constitution there technically was never a relief of command Congress and the Executive office simple abandoned their post as a test of perfection to a state of the union they claimed in Civil Court. A right to remain silent is not just a constitutional right set by the 5th Amendment it is a constitutional right as well as we often must wait for a crime to take place to then stop, pursue conviction, and punish, if necessary, the wrong in efforts to make right. No one ever said imperfect laws do not create statistical results the United States Constitution describes only that the deteriorate the common defense of the general welfare.

We are not talking about freedom of speech here it is details of common defense in constitutional right we are arguing internationally. Many nations globally have manifested they’re on reason for failing to hold United States of law to perfection for many reasons never one. Pursuit of perfect law is something Israel does not have due its constitution, its goal which is set lesser than what was proven by American United States Constitution as a low for of legislation. The proof is self-evident for the word savvy smooth talking folks who can understand self-information does occur when making open public claims they no longer bother to search for perfection in their own states of the union with established justice of common defense towards general welfare. United States Consitution is powerless so they say.

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

That's in relation to injuries as a result of Israeli attacks you Troll.  You cannot even keep up with what I said in my last piece 

Injuring enemy soldiers isn't a war crime... Again, I'd like to see your source, 9,000 is a very even number so it's possible you may be exaggerating.

How could you address the whole list when I only posted a small section of it?

You didn't post a small section of the list, you posted its entirety...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_by_Israel - If you look here, all of them you posted. Regardless I addressed those listed in the article, rather than those you cited, so it really doesn't matter how many you referred to here.

I then posted a piece from the UN with the figures which of course you ignored 

Because it didn't have figures, besides, it was a qualitative assessment made by an extremely biased organization.
I'm not arguing with the UN's statements(not statistics), I'm arguing with you. If you can't create arguments by yourself and you need outside help, you shouldn't be on a debate site.

Japan was on its knees you clot,Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of terrorism .

Which is why they mobilized 28 million civilians into their armed forces.
They weren't on their knees, they were prepared to die fighting, almost every single person in the nation.
If you call this question a red herring:
"What do you call Britain, a country that killed 24,000 people in the span of three days(bombing of Dresden)? Or is there a double logic that you are holding?"
Then your question is also definitely one. So you better answer my question if you want to be consistent.

The UN, Amnesty just to start you know those organizations the US detests as they expose American backed atrocities and show you lot up for your appalling double standards 

Not sure what you're referring to since you never bother to actually refer to my argument in actuality. Moving on...

I've already schooled you in that debate Using your own sources against you 

Which is why you're refusing or unable to school me now, right? The fact that you're publicly claiming that you schooled me only demonstrates to the audience you are insecure.

everything you say is tripe pulled from your a-s 

Prove it.

The question I asked was why you kiss Kornfed feet and support his so called enjoyment of Palestinians getting blown to bits in shopping centres?

Not relevant, stay civil for once.

I didn't give a definition of terrorism as Hamas are freedom fighters so what's this talk of terrorism?

Because you can't call Israel terrorists without defining it. And you can't call Hamas freedom fighters without defining it.
So define terrorists. And then define freedom fighters.

But you admit you don't know if 1+ 1 = 2 or 3 proving everything you say you're not sure of as you're that st-pid you ran a million miles away from my way of proving this to yourself, remember the way you exposed your st-pidity to the entire site and kept your mouth firmly shut when your st- pidity in print was pointed out to you 

Exactly how is this relevant? Stop focusing on pointless ad hominem attacks, but rather on my argument.

You deny evidence you do it every time you've been given list after list in the past and all you do is ignore or poison the well by screeching "That souce is biased "

. I did not contend with your list of massacres in any way and only showed the total death toll of all combined.
I never called any of your sources(regarding data) biased because apart from that one. You haven't had any real statistical sources. Your argument has been an egregious amount of claims without any sort of evidence or reasoning to back it up.
Next time actually quote my argument, rather than making vague references to it like you're doing now.

The state of Israel uses rape,torture,  brutality,children as human shields,uses apartheid to achieve its aims , it a nation of cowards, bullies and bigots supported by a bigot and biased mouthpiece like you. for state terrorism 

Do you have any sources to demonstrate how Israel uses rape, torture, brutality, and child shields to a significant extent today?
If Israel is apartheid, why did it have an Arab party in government in 2021? Why did it withdraw from Gaza? Why did it establish the Palestinian authority in parts of Judea and Samaria? I've asked several of these questions previously, but I doubt you'll respond, as per usual...
Define state terrorism. You've been calling Israel that without every defining it...
Also calling Israel, a nation of Jews, a nation of cowards, bullies, and bigots, only demonstrates your anti-Semitism and bias.



@Galvanise

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960824.stm
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11462635

Posting the same case in two different sources doesn't make them two different data points. You only cited a single case of Israeli use of human shields, and in this case, the soldiers were convicted by the court and punished. Thus, demonstrating that Israel condones the use of human shields.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/crc/docs/co/CRC-C-ISR-CO-2-4.pdf - This is the actual source of the report which you were too lazy to find.
It found only 14 cases of human shields. And its definition of a human shield is rather flawed. Forcing a nine-year-old child to search a bag isn't a case of using human shields. But, however, it lists it as a case example of a human shield.
Even assuming the claims of 14 are legitimate. These are 14 cases over the span of three years. You can't possibly claim such a practice is systemic out of a country that has an army of 634,500 soldiers.
Since Israel doesn't use human shields systematically, you can't claim they are terrorists.

just_sayin

@Galvanise @Dee:
Galvanise and Dee want people to pretend that Hamas has not targeted Israeli civilians with rockets that are imbedded among children, but even Hamas and the Palestinian Authority have admitted to doing so.  

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved


Injuring enemy soldiers isn't a war crime..

Torture,  rape and apartheid are 


. Again, I'd like to see your source, 9,000 is a very even number so it's possible you may be exaggerating.

Would you?  Why ? You'd only say it was biased 

You didn't post a small section of the list, you posted its entirety...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_committed_by_Israel - 

That's a sample from one source , try Amnesty or the UN just for starts 

If you look here, all of them you posted. Regardless I addressed those listed in the article, rather than those you cited, so it really doesn't matter how many you referred to here.

You addressed nothing you engaged in denialism of facts

Because it didn't have figures,

Search the date base instead of whining 

besides, it was a qualitative assessment made by an extremely biased organization.


Of course everything you  disagree with is " biased" super argument 


I'm not arguing with the UN's statements(not statistics), I'm arguing with you. If you can't create arguments by yourself and you need outside help, you shouldn't be on a debate site.


Really? This from you who post link after biased link in your previous posts , you're that dumb outside help couldn't help  you resolve if 1+1 = 2 or 3


Which is why they mobilized 28 million civilians into their armed forces.

Gibberish 

They weren't on their knees, they were prepared to die fighting, almost every single person in the nation.

Nonsense 


"What do you call Britain, a country that killed 24,000 people in the span of three days(bombing of Dresden)? Or is there a double logic that you are holding?"
Then your question is also definitely one. So you better answer my question if you want to be consistent.


But the only one holding " double logic " is you as Hiroshima and Nagasaki targeted pregnant women , babies  children and the elderly which you say was " necessary " what's the term moronic yanks use " collateral

Not sure what you're referring to since you never bother to actually refer to my argument in actuality. Moving on...


Pretty predictable and anticipated dodge and swerve


Which is why you're refusing or unable to school me now, right? The fact that you're publicly claiming that you schooled me only demonstrates to the audience you are insecure.

But I am schooling you , your denial is hardly convincing .  " Insecure " , how  hurtful being called insecure by a guy who doesn't know if 1+1 =2or 3 ......

everything you say is tripe pulled from your a-s 
Prove it.

If it comes from you it's tripe read above ....1+1= 2 ....." oh wait , I'm not sure , is it 3..... you don't know what proof is 
t kmoe


Not relevant, stay civil for once.

Of course its relevant you kiss his a-s like the little toady you are , I don't stay civil to bigots

Because you can't call Israel terrorists without defining it.

Sue me 

 
Sue them 


So define terrorists.

The US and Israel 



And then define freedom fighters.

The IRA , Hamas 


Exactly how is this relevant? Stop focusing on pointless ad hominem attacks, but rather on my argument.

It demonstrates clearly that you believe everything is just opinion so what are you even arguing about?

 It's not " Ad Hominen " to conclude an adult who doesn't know whether 1 +1 = 2 or maybe 3 is st-pid or retarded


. I did not contend with your list of massacres in any way and only showed the total death toll of all combined.
I never called any of your sources(regarding data) biased because apart from that one. You haven't had any real statistical sources. Your argument has been an egregious amount of claims without any sort of evidence or reasoning to back it up.

Your biased opinion is just that and nothing factual can be garnered from it 

Next time actually quote my argument, rather than making vague references to it like you're doing now.

Next time read what I actually say not what you think I say 

The state of Israel uses rape,torture,  brutality,children as human shields,uses apartheid to achieve its aims , it a nation of cowards, bullies and bigots supported by a bigot and biased mouthpiece like you. for state terrorism 


Do you have any sources to demonstrate how Israel uses rape, torture, brutality, and child shields to a significant extent today?

Yes , the UN to start which you stupidly claim is biased for reasons only known to pro Israeli parrots

If Israel is apartheid, why did it have an Arab party in government in 2021? Why did it withdraw from Gaza? Why did it establish the Palestinian authority in parts of Judea and Samaria? I've asked several of these questions previously, but I doubt you'll respond, as per usual...

First you have to demonstrate this to be the case from a non biased source , you know the type you insist on ?

If you supply such I will then use your second favourite tactic and ask can you not make an argument of your own without using outside sources


calling Israel, a nation of Jews, a nation of cowards, bullies, and bigots, only demonstrates your anti-Semitism and bias.

No , calling rapists,  cowards ,  bullies and, bigots  what they are is what decent brave people do pity the Jews didnt try it in Hitlers Germany, I get it you hate Palestinians because you're a coward and bigot who refuses to condemn your fellow scum bag  who along with you  takes joy in the bombing of Palestiinan shopping centres,  you haters just got to hate it seems

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

Torture,  rape, and apartheid are 

Which I wasn't referring to...
The 9,000 number is for all military injuries, right? Including those of soldiers. Injuring or killing soldiers during the war aren't war crimes. Making your point mute.

Would you?  Why? You'd only say it was biased 

Try me. That didn't stop you from citing previously biased sources like the UN. But I doubt you have a source, otherwise, you would've given it.

That's a sample from one source, try Amnesty or the UN just for starts 

It's not up to me to support your case. If you truly have evidence, then demonstrate it. I'm not here to argue for you and then argue back to myself like a schizo
If someone came on tomorrow and said the earth is flat, it is very likely would say, "No it isn't! For reasons XYZ."
That person cannot then say: "There are mountains of evidence demonstrating that this is the case. Look on sources like Scientific American and Physics Today for starters!"
You see the fallacy in this. You cannot shift the burden of proof away from me when you make a claim.

You addressed nothing you engaged in denialism of facts

Why is that exactly? I gave a higher estimate of the total number of deaths listed on the page. I built this argument off of facts.

Of course, everything you  disagree with is a " biased" super argument 

Any organization that appoints Saudi Arabia to the Women's rights council is biased.

Really? This is from you who post link after biased link in your previous posts, you're that dumb outside help couldn't help  you resolve if 1+1 = 2 or 3

You never, once, have demonstrated a bias in any of the sources that I cite.
Again, I'm arguing with you, not the UN. If you wish to base an argument based on their data in a debate, that is acceptable. But making a large part of your argument a written statement that they wrote is disingenuous.

Gibberish ... Nonsense

Do you have anything more besides dismissing my arguments with lazy one-word responses?

But the only one holding " double logic " is you as Hiroshima and Nagasaki targeted pregnant women, babies  children, and the elderly which you say was " necessary " What's the term moronic Yanks use " collateral

Either that or the death of millions and possibly 10's of millions.

I don't stay civil to bigots

Says you who has called me and dozens of others on this site "k*kes." I never once demeaned any group or degraded them in any way.
The only bigot is you.

The US and Israel 

If terrorists are defined as:
1a: The United States of America.
1b: The state of Israel.
Then that's a very closed definition. Making the term "terrorist" useless other than just a label exclusive to those two countries.

The IRA, Hamas 

Same as above. Making the term "freedom fighter" useless is what you are doing. As they are exclusively the IRA and Hamas.

The state of Israel uses rape,torture,  brutality, children as human shields,

Do you mind actually linking a source to support such assertions? How many Palestinian women were raped in 2000? How many innocent Palestinian civilians were tortured? How many were killed or attacked wrongfully by Israeli security forces? These are key questions you have yet to answer...

First, you have to demonstrate this to be the case from a non-biased source , you know the type you insist on?

Regarding the Arab party that was in government a few years back:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/elections/2021-03-28/ty-article/.premium/lapid-islamist-party-leader-abbas-meet-to-discuss-forming-government/0000017f-f269-df98-a5ff-f3ed95a60000
Regarding the withdrawal from Gaza:
https://www.npr.org/series/4797062/israel-s-withdrawal-from-gaza
Regarding the establishment of the Palestinian authority:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority

No, calling rapists,  cowards,  bullies, and, bigots  what they are

No, it's just anti-Semitism. You are an anti-Semite by calling all Israelis, rapists, cowards, bullies, and bigots.

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved

1: Ignoring war crimes by Israeli butchers doesnt make them go away
You also totally denied the 9,O000 injury figure and now seem to conclude they were all " military injuries" 

2: " Try me" , why ? every citation and source you say is " biased : except yours right?

3: My case is sound  my source is sound your only argument is, " that source is biased " even when I used your own sources against you in the past you claimed " Ben Gurion didn't say that " after I quoted him directly fom his diaries

It's the same old song and dance you do every time.

Your denial of war crimes by Israeli butchers is proof you're delusional as you're claiming the UN ,Amnesty , Human rights org etc  etc are all liars proving conclusively the only liars and consistently so are the terrorist state of Israel 

4:You built no arguments off facts   you deny reality and facts ,your pro Israeli parroting is not factual but merely a mouthpiece justifying state brutality

5: But America refused to say how it voted , America most likely voted yes as they consistently sign lucrative arms deals with Saudi , Biden promised to crack down on Saudi for human rights abuses instead he signed new arms deals .
Trump.bowed to the Crown Prince of Saudi after signing the last arms deal, your ignorance of the affairs of other countries is staggering and your own country no less so 

6: Here we go with your usual." my sources aren't biased only yours are " then when one provides data from my sources you then claim " you're using this as your whole argument ", why are you lying?.
I used the sources to confirm my claims regards Israeli criminality , that's called providing evidence something you're incapable of doing 

7 :I dismiss parts of your repetitive nonsense with one word dismissals as it deserves no more 

8: You claims regards the bombing of Japan are again your pathetic attempt to justify an unequalled American war crime of the most savage nature , somehow to you it was necessary as you incredibly know what the future outcome would have been without the US deliberately targeting not alone the military but men ,women ,children and the old , but it was necessary .
Hitler thought the eradication of the Jews was necessary,  why are Jewish li es more important than Japanese?

9: I call you and you type what you are my claim is factual regards the term I used did you ever even.look up how the term originated?

Your ignorance is astounding,  you label me a " bigot " that's fine, yes I detest cowards who use rape   torture and brutality against others you in the meantime celebrate it which is why you refuse to condemn Kornfed over his stating his " enjoyment  at Israel targeting Palestinian shopping centres 
You're a typical narrow minded ignorant bigot and hater 

You still seem to be red faced with embarrassment regards my asking did you and your e tended family work out yet whether 1+1 =2 or 3 ?


10:  Still trying to work out what terrorism is despite me providing several excellent examples of such ,you really need to try harder don't you ?

11: Ah you're still stuck on what freedom fighters are ,the clie is in the term " freedom" come on you can do it.

12:  I again provided 2 sources for those claims the UN and Amnesty both sources you of course dishonestly accused of bias

13:Your links are useless , if you cannot make an argument without citing sources you haven't got an argument .....that's using you second  much loved excuse against you

14: I missed scum of the Earth so add that on , I told you I hate rapists,  bullies and cowards you being a bigoted hater celebrate them once they wear a uniform 

Come on now you cannot say the dropping of two Atomic bombs that targeted not alone the military but the elderly., infants ,and ordinary working class people was " necessary " without admitting you're no better than Hitler who thought the final solution was necessary 

Dee

@Galvanise

HI G , thank you . The guy is astonishingly ignorant you probably noticed when a source is quoted he claims its biased and then claims you shouldnt rely on such sources as it proves you cannot make an argument without them , then when you make an argument without sources he asks you to back it up with sources.

It's remarkable to me the way everything carried out against Jews is an atrocity but everything carried out by them is not

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Real Terrorism

The Munich Olympic Massacre of 1972 was a terrorist attack that occurred during the Summer Olympic Games in Munich, Germany, where members of the Palestinian terrorist group Black September attacked the Israeli Olympic team's living quarters, killing 11 Israeli Olympic athletes and coaches, and a German police officer. The terrorists demanded the release of over 200 Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli prisons, and a plane to transport them out of Germany.

After a failed rescue attempt, the terrorists took the hostages to the Munich airport, where a standoff with German police ensued. The terrorists eventually killed all nine surviving hostages, blew up a helicopter, and were killed themselves in the resulting firefight. The attack shocked the world, and led to increased security measures at future Olympic Games. The tragedy remained a symbol of terrorism for many years to come.

Dee

Jewish cowards torture kids , that's what they cal Jewish justice ......

The International Secretariat of OMCT has been informed by the Public Committee against Torture in Israel (PCATI), a member of the OMCT network, and by another reliable source that Palestinian children are still submitted to torture and ill-treatment while being interrogated by Israeli forces.

OMCT has been informed that these violations of human rights are continuing to occur, despite the Israeli Minister of Justice, Meir Sheetrit, having contacted the OMCT International Secretariat in order to deny these allegations and claim that Israel has never resorted to such practices.

According to PCATI, children, mostly 14 to 17 years old, have been violently arrested by the security forces using such means as beatings, kicking, verbal abuse, humiliation and threats, and apparently have been interrogated illegally. During their detention, the minors were held with adult criminals and were exposed to rape, sexual harassment, theft, threats and constant physical and psychological violence.

According to the same source, the children are reportedly subjected to sleep deprivation spanning, continuous and long interrogation, painful manacling of the hands and feet, pouring of freezing cold water on the detainee and preventing him from changing his clothing for a long period of time, covering the head with a sack, shooting the detainee with small plastic bullets from point blanc range, placing weights on the detainee's shoulders for an extended period of time, dunking his head in ice water, humiliation and threats.

According to Defence for Children International – Palestine Section (DCI – PS) , torture and ill treatment mainly occur during interrogation. Generally, once the child leaves interrogation, the treatment improves, although there are frequent cases of ill treatment occurring beyond the interrogation phase. To DCI – PS’ knowledge, no investigation has been opened so far on these cases.   : Israeli scum torture children,  that about sums up the Israeli definition of the ideal Jewish man 



The International Secretariat of OMCT has been informed by the Public Committee against Torture in Israel (PCATI), a member of the OMCT network, and by another reliable source that Palestinian children are still submitted to torture and ill-treatment while being interrogated by Israeli forces.

OMCT has been informed that these violations of human rights are continuing to occur, despite the Israeli Minister of Justice, Meir Sheetrit, having contacted the OMCT International Secretariat in order to deny these allegations and claim that Israel has never resorted to such practices.

According to PCATI, children, mostly 14 to 17 years old, have been violently arrested by the security forces using such means as beatings, kicking, verbal abuse, humiliation and threats, and apparently have been interrogated illegally. During their detention, the minors were held with adult criminals and were exposed to rape, sexual harassment, theft, threats and constant physical and psychological violence.

According to the same source, the children are reportedly subjected to sleep deprivation spanning, continuous and long interrogation, painful manacling of the hands and feet, pouring of freezing cold water on the detainee and preventing him from changing his clothing for a long period of time, covering the head with a sack, shooting the detainee with small plastic bullets from point blanc range, placing weights on the detainee's shoulders for an extended period of time, dunking his head in ice water, humiliation and threats.

According to Defence for Children International – Palestine Section (DCI – PS) , torture and ill treatment mainly occur during interrogation. Generally, once the child leaves interrogation, the treatment improves, although there are frequent cases of ill treatment occurring beyond the interrogation phase. To DCI – PS’ knowledge, no investigation has been opened so far on these cases.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Child Soldiers of Hamas

Hamas uses child soldiers. According to Human Rights Watch, Hamas has recruited and used children as young as 12 years old in its military wing, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades. Children have been used for a variety of tasks, including collecting intelligence, transporting weapons, and manning checkpoints. In some cases, children have also been used in combat.

Hamas has denied using child soldiers, but there is evidence to suggest that the group does engage in this practice. Several international organizations, including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the United Nations, have documented cases of children participating in military activities with Hamas or affiliated groups, such as taking part in military training, attending or organizing militant rallies, and in some cases, carrying weapons or explosives.

The use of child soldiers is a serious violation of international law. The Convention on the Rights of the Child prohibits the recruitment and use of children under the age of 18 in armed conflict. Hamas is a signatory to this convention, but it has continued to violate its provisions.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: It's Time For Some Humor

Two Irishman are making letter bombs. Paddy asks, “Mick, d’yer think I’ve put enough explosive in this envelope?”

Mick replies, “I don’t know, open it and see.”

“But it’ll explode.” says Paddy.

“Don’t be stu-pid,” Mick says, “It’s not addressed to you!”

Dee

@JulesKorngold

How do Germans pick up Jewish women?

With a dustpan

Dee

@JulesKorngold


Argument Topic  : Kornfed is still crying

Boo Hoo , wail ,Boo poor Kornfed waiting on the sympathy vote no bites yet ....bwahahahahahahahaha 

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

You also totally denied the 9,O000 injury figure and now seem to conclude they were all " military injuries" 

So it's 90,000 now? Rather than 9,000? Are you just making up stuff?
And if you wanna talk about civilian injuries, then please cite a specific number of unjustified Arab injuries sustained by Israeli attacks. Otherwise, your point is mute.

" Try me" , why ? every citation and source you say is " biased : except yours right?

I will analyze and read any source you give me, regardless of its bias. You have yet to give hard numbers, that is all that is being asked.
Not my problem if you refuse to actually cite sources and give numbers.

My case is sound  my source is sound your only argument is, " That source is biased " even when I used your own sources

You never actually gave any sources in this thread besides that Wikipedia page which I didn't contest in any significant way.

" Ben Gurion didn't say that " after I quoted him directly fom his diaries

Firstly, you quoted Ben Gurion from second-hand accounts of his political opponents, and often took such quotes out of context.
Secondly, if Israel practiced a policy of ethnic cleansing during 1948 as you say, why were there over 150,000 Arabs in Israel after the war? And why did Plan Dalet only evict villages based on resistance levels, rather than ethnicity?

Your denial of war crimes by Israeli butchers is proof you're delusional as you're claiming the UN ,Amnesty , Human rights org etc  etc are all liars proving conclusively the only liars and consistently so are the terrorist state of Israel 

I'm not denying that Israel didn't commit war crimes. But every nation that has experienced war has in one way or another. The fact of the matter is that Israel commits such atrocities at such a low rate that it surpasses other nations in civility and cannot be considered a terrorist state.
Additionally, virtually no human rights organization calls Israel a terrorist state, even the UN.
In every war that Israel has been in, very few civilians died, so much for being butchers.

You built no arguments off facts   you deny reality and facts

Demonstrate how this is the case. What numbers or facts have I denied?

But America refused to say how it voted , America most likely voted yes as they consistently sign lucrative arms deals with Saudi , Biden promised to crack down on Saudi for human rights abuses instead he signed new arms deals .
Trump.bowed to the Crown Prince of Saudi after signing the last arms deal, your ignorance of the affairs of other countries is staggering and your own country no less so 

What was this meant to be a response towards? When did I talk about the USA?

Here we go with your usual." my sources aren't biased only yours are "Then when one provides data from my sources you then claim "You're using this as your whole argument ", why are you lying?.
I used the sources to confirm my claims regards Israeli criminality , that's called providing evidence something you're incapable of doing 

I don't know what you're referring to. Actually, quote my argument next time.

I dismiss parts of your repetitive nonsense with one word dismissals as it deserves no more 

Then don't be surprised if people say that you don't have rebuttals to arguments(I.E can't debate).

why do you refuse to condemn Kornfed over his stating his " enjoyment  at Israel targeting Palestinian shopping centres 
You're a typical narrow minded ignorant bigot and hater 

I'm talking to you, not to Jules. Stay focused.

Hitler thought the eradication of the Jews was necessary,  why are Jewish li es more important than the Japanese?

Because Hitler killed Jews for the sake of killing Jews. The Americans bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki to prevent a costly land invasion that would've resulted in the deaths of millions of Americans and Japanese.

Still trying to work out what terrorism is despite my providing several excellent examples of such ,you really need to try harder, don't you ?

You didn't give examples of terrorism, you defined it as the United States and Israel(mind you, a very closed and irrelevant definition). If you want to give a more concrete definition, then be my guest.
If the United states and Israel are simply your examples of terrorism. What is it that they are being examples of? You need to define a term before you can attribute examples to it.
Not hard to define terrorism, so why can't you?

Ah you're still stuck on what freedom fighters are ,the clie is in the term " freedom" Come on you can do it.

So Hamas is a state of freedom fighters for trying to establish a totalitarian Jihadist government?
If that's your definition of a freedom fighter(those who fight for liberty), then Hamas is your antithesis of that.
You are contradicting yourself.

I again provided 2 sources for those claims the UN and Amnesty both sources you of course dishonestly accused of bias

You didn't provide sources, you claimed they supported your exact argument without demonstrating how. You need to actually cite a specific study/paper, send an image, or give me a link. I can likewise also claim that the UN and Amnesty show that Israel rarely commits war crimes and it would be just as valid as your claim of evidence.

Your links are useless , if you cannot make an argument without citing sources you haven't got an argument .....that's using your second  much loved excuse against you

No, it just means that I know what I'm talking about and can support my argument with data. Both things you seem to be struggling with.

Come on now you cannot say the dropping of two Atomic bombs that targeted not alone the military but the elderly., infants ,and ordinary working class people were " necessary " without admitting you're no better than Hitler who thought the final solution was necessary 

Because the dropping of two atom bombs saved Japanese and American lives and was intended to do so.
The final solution was intended to annihilate and butcher people with no attention to saving anyone.
HUGE difference.

Once again, you have failed to actually cite any parts of my argument. Making it rather hard to read through the lines and figure out what, at each instance, you are referring to.
Israel is not a terrorist state because in its history, it does not go out of its way to systematically butcher civilians.
Hamas, however, is a state that exists purely for the genocide and terrorism against Jews. As evidenced by its exclusive bombing of civilian targets like Tel Aviv, rather than military bases.

Also learn to write better, it takes me around 2-3 times to read and understand each write you line since you have so many grammatical mistakes.

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved


It's Utterly pointless debating with a delusional bigot like you , reading through your poorly worded mostly incoherent  Pro Israeli propaganda pieces excusing Israeli savagery is a futlile exercise.

 You sign off with ....., , it takes me around 2-3 times to read and understand each write you line since you have so many grammatical mistakes


Bwahahahahahahahaha,  you truly are delusional , grammarly found 91 errors in your rantings in this piece alone ,the last line of your propaganda piece demonstrates this  clearly 

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved


Minesub says that  human rights organisations around the world are all corupt ,  biased unless they agree with his pro Israeli rantings , the much  " picked upon " self pitying poor me Jew fails to convince human rights organisations across the world.

We cannot expect more from a guy who still cannot make up his mind if 1+1 =2 or 3.

The denial of facts doesn't 'make them go away.......

Human rights Watch 

(Jerusalem) – Fifty years after Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip, it controls these areas through repression, institutionalized discrimination, and systematic abuses of the Palestinian population’s rights, Human Rights Watch said today. 

 

At least five categories of major violations of international human rights law and humanitarian law characterize the occupation: unlawful killings; forced displacement; abusive detention; the closure of the Gaza Strip and other unjustified restrictions on movement; and the development of settlements, along with the accompanying discriminatory policies that disadvantage Palestinians. 

 

Many of Israel’s abusive practices were carried out in the name of security. Palestinian armed groups have carried out scores of lethal attacks on civilians and launched thousands of rocket attacks on Israeli civilian areas, also in violation of international humanitarian law. 

 

“Whether it’s a child imprisoned by a military court or shot unjustifiably, or a house demolished for lack of an elusive permit, or checkpoints where only settlers are allowed to pass, few Palestinians have escaped serious rights abuses during this 50-year occupation,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Israel today maintains an entrenched system of institutionalized discrimination against Palestinians in the occupied territory – repression that extends far beyond any security rationale.” 

 

As the occupation enters its second half-century, the focus should be on increasing the protection of the rights of the population of the occupied territory, Human Rights Watch said.

 

Unlawful Killings & War Crimes
Israeli troops killed well over 2,000 Palestinian civilians in the last three Gaza conflicts (2008-09, 2012, 2014) alone. Many of these attacks amount to violations of international humanitarian law due to a failure to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians. Some amount to war crimes, including the targeting of apparent civilian structures.

In the West Bank, Israeli security forces have routinely used excessive force in policing situations, killing or grievously wounding thousands of demonstrators, rock-throwers, suspected assailants, and others with live ammunition when lesser means could have averted a threat or maintained order.

Armed Palestinian groups also committed war crimes during these conflicts and at other times, including rocket attacks targeting Israeli population centers. Between the start of the first Intifada in December 1987 and the end of February 2017, attacks by Palestinians killed at least 1,079 Israeli civilians, according to the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem.

Israeli official investigations into alleged security force abuses during the Gaza conflicts and in policing situations failed to hold the abusers accountable, with rare exceptions. Palestinian authorities have also failed to investigate violations and hold those responsible to account.

Illegal Settlements
Israeli authorities have since 1967 facilitated the transfer of its civilians to the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. In 1967, Israel established two settlements in the West Bank: Kfar Etzion and East Talpiot; by 2017, Israel had established 237 settlements there, housing approximately 580,000 settlers. Israel applies Israeli civil law to settlers, affording them legal protections, rights, and benefits that are not extended to Palestinians living in the same territory who are subjected to Israeli military law. Israel provides settlers with infrastructure, services, and subsidies that it denies to Palestinians, creating and sustaining a separate and unequal system of law, rules, and services.

 

Human rights org 


About 6.8 million Jewish Israelis and 6.8 million Palestinians live today between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River, an area encompassing Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT), the latter made up of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. Throughout most of this area, Israel is the sole governing power; in the remainder, it exercises primary authority alongside limited Palestinian self-rule. Across these areas and in most aspects of life, Israeli authorities methodically privilege Jewish Israelis and discriminate against Palestinians. Laws, policies, and statements by leading Israeli officials make plain that the objective of maintaining Jewish Israeli control over demographics, political power, and land has long guided government policy. In pursuit of this goal, authorities have dispossessed, confined, forcibly separated, and subjugated Palestinians by virtue of their identity to varying degrees of intensity. In certain areas, as described in this report, these deprivations are so severe that they amount to the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.


Amnesty 

ISRAEL AND OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES 2022

Israel’s continuing oppressive and discriminatory system of governing Palestinians in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) constituted a system of apartheid, and Israeli officials committed the crime of apartheid under international law. Israeli forces launched a three-day offensive on the occupied Gaza Strip in August during which they committed apparent war crimes. This compounded the impact of a 15-year ongoing Israeli blockade that amounts to illegal collective punishment and further fragments Palestinian territory. Israel escalated its crackdown on Palestinians’ freedom of association. It also imposed arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement and closures that amounted to collective punishment, mainly in the northern West Bank, ostensibly in response to armed attacks by Palestinians on Israeli soldiers and settlers. The year saw a rise in the number of Palestinians unlawfully killed and seriously injured by Israeli forces during raids in the West Bank. Administrative detentions of Palestinians hit a 14-year high, and torture and other ill-treatment continued. Israeli forces demolished al-Araqib village in the Negev/Naqab for the 211th time. A further 35 Palestinian-Bedouin towns in Israel were still denied formal recognition and residents faced possible forcible transfer. Authorities failed to process asylum claims for thousands of asylum seekers, and imposed restrictions on their right to work.

UN 

Argument Topic  : Jewish hypocrisy 

Jews wail about the injustice of how cruel and unfair it was when Hitler introduced a system of racial oppression and discrimination yet when they do it well of course that's different . 

 First, an institutionalised regime of systematic racial oppression and discrimination has been established.

Michael Lynk, Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, said the report addressed the question as to whether Israel’s acquisitive and repressive practices over the course of its 55-year-old regime had curdled from an endless occupation into something darker, harsher and more ominous.  He had concluded that the political system of entrenched rule in the occupied Palestinian territory satisfied the prevailing evidentiary standard for the existence of apartheid.  First, an institutionalised regime of systematic racial oppression and discrimination has been established.  Second, this system of alien rule had been established with the intent to maintain the domination of one racial-national-ethnic group over another.  And third, the imposition of this system of institutionalised discrimination with the intent of permanent domination had been built upon the regular practice of inhuman(e) acts.  This was apartheid.  With the eyes of the international community wide open, Israel had imposed upon Palestine an apartheid reality in a post-apartheid world.

Trocaire

For almost half a century, Israel has maintained a military occupation of the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT). Serious human rights abuses are happening on an almost daily basis in the West Bank and Gaza.

Due to military bombardments and an ongoing blockade, 80% of people in Gaza depend on aid to survive. In the West Bank, Palestinian homes are being demolished. Land is being confiscated. Illegal settlements are being built on stolen land.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: The OPT

While the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is complex and sensitive, it's essential to acknowledge that Israel faces significant security challenges and threats from terrorist groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah. The ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has resulted in complicated issues regarding borders, security, and the status of Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

Regarding Gaza, Israel's blockade was implemented to prevent weapons and other military equipment from reaching Hamas and other militant groups, who have used them in attacks against Israel. Moreover, Israel's humanitarian aid to Gaza has far exceeded that of any other country, with Israel providing electricity, water, and other lifesaving humanitarian aid.

While the demolition of Palestinian homes and other human rights abuses are undoubtedly concerning, Israel has a functioning independent judiciary system, and Israeli courts have struck down some home demolitions and provided financial compensation in other cases. Furthermore, Israeli settlements in the West Bank are a politically contentious issue, and Israel has taken several steps, such as imposing building freezes in the past, to prevent unauthorized settlement expansion.

Finally, it's worth noting that some of the violence and human rights abuses in the region are perpetrated by extremist groups and individuals on both sides of the conflict, and that a lasting and peaceful resolution can only be achieved through dialogue, respect for human rights, and the recognition of the legitimate rights and aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians.

The situation is complex and there are no easy answers. Israel is not the only party to blame. The Palestinian Authority has also committed human rights abuses, and Hamas, the militant group that controls Gaza, has been responsible for some of the worst violence.  Palestinians need to renounce violence and accept the existence of Israel.

In short, the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory is complex and rife with challenges, and while Israel should always be held accountable for any human rights abuses, it also deserves recognition for its efforts to maintain security and provide aid to the inhabitants of Gaza.

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

Bwahahahahahahahaha,  you truly are delusional , grammarly found 91 errors in your rantings in this piece alone ,the last line of your propaganda piece demonstrates this  clearly 

Mostly from my quotes of you...

Israeli troops killed well over 2,000 Palestinian civilians in the last three Gaza conflicts (2008-09, 2012, 2014) alone.

Israel has been in major conflict with Gaza ever since 2008, and so which means only 133 Gazans die annually to Israeli bombing and military attacks. This is not a necessarily high number and doesn't constitute war crimes.
This death toll can also largely be attributed to the fact that Gaza is a very dense(mostly residential area) and that Hamas tends to hide its own weapon caches, outposts, and rockets in schools or hospitals. Thus increasing the likelihood of deaths in Gaza.

and others with live ammunition when lesser means could have averted a threat or maintained order.

Not necessarily, especially in dangerous and tense situations as those described above, soldiers may feel that they are threatened and thus resort to living ammunition. This isn't an indication of Israel's terrorism against Palestinians. If anything it only showcases that Israel is a society that tends to value the lives of its soldiers and prioritizes them over non-citizens like those Arabs living in Judea and Samaria.

Israel applies Israeli civil law to settlers, affording them legal protections, rights, and benefits that are not extended to Palestinians living in the same territory who are subjected to Israeli military law.

Because they aren't citizens, and pose a security threat, simple as.

Throughout most of this area, Israel is the sole governing power; in the remainder, it exercises primary authority alongside limited Palestinian self-rule. Across these areas and in most aspects of life, Israeli authorities methodically privilege Jewish Israelis and discriminate against Palestinians. Laws, policies, and statements by leading Israeli officials make plain that the objective of maintaining Jewish Israeli control over demographics, political power, and land has long guided government policy. In pursuit of this goal, authorities have dispossessed, confined, forcibly separated, and subjugated Palestinians by virtue of their identity to varying degrees of intensity. In certain areas, as described in this report, these deprivations are so severe that they amount to the crimes against humanity of apartheid and persecution.

Then if Israel is apartheid and oppressing Arabs, why did they have an Arab party in government two years ago. Why do they even allow the existence of Arab parties, let alone their right to vote, if they are apartheid?

Israel escalated its crackdown on Palestinians’ freedom of association. It also imposed arbitrary restrictions on freedom of movement and closures that amounted to collective punishment, mainly in the northern West Bank, ostensibly in response to armed attacks by Palestinians on Israeli soldiers and settlers.

Establishing military checkpoints along roads was only a response to the attacks by Arabs from Judea and Samaria. It is designed to keep security in Israel proper, not to genocide or abuse Palestinians.

A further 35 Palestinian-Bedouin towns in Israel were still denied formal recognition and residents faced possible forcible transfer. 

Because they lack the right legal land ownership and construction licenses to build and keep villages and towns in those areas.

Due to military bombardments and an ongoing blockade, 80% of people in Gaza depend on aid to survive.

Maybe because Gaza elected a fanatical Islamist government bent on destroying Israel and genociding Jews?

Dee

All your doing is engaging in denialism as what you're basically saying is that the 5 reputable agencies quoted are biased and lying.

This would also suggest you're saying that their findings based on empirical.data are false ,so you think all these agencies world wide are engaged in a witch hunt against Isreal for some reasons only known to you.

Your bigoted opinions are not fact you seem to think they are, which is why you still cannot work out if 1+1 = 2 or maybe 3 yet you expect people to believe your pro Israeli propaganda pieces

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

All your doing is engaging in denialism as what you're basically saying is that the 5 reputable agencies quoted are biased and lying.

I never once contended with their data. My grudge with most of these human rights organizations is that data is often misrepresented and definitions regarding such data are often stretched and misleading. Furthermore, they focus a special amount on Israel, oftentimes placing the tiny nation above larger and far more horrible human rights abusers, as Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, and China.  Am I somehow not allowed to question the conclusions of human rights organizations, and if so, why is that not allowed?

so you think all these agencies worldwide are engaged in a witch hunt against Isreal for some reasons only known to you.

People have been going after Jews for millennia, why would it suddenly change in the modern world?

Your bigoted opinions

When have I expressed support of discrimination and prejudice?

Very nice rebuttal as well. /s
You have hardly ever responded to my argumentation or questions regarding your questions. I don't think you ever intended to engage in a real debate on this subject.
I don't mean to be harsh, but I think it is appropriate when my opponent has called me a bigoted, delusional, id*otic k*ke.

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved


I never once contended with their data. My grudge with most of these human rights organizations is that data is often misrepresented and definitions regarding such data are often stretched and misleading.

Really? So they basically all have it in for Israel?


 Furthermore, they focus a special amount on Israel, oftentimes placing the tiny nation above larger and far more horrible human rights abusers, as Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, and China

Another fine example of Whataboutism. You name Saudi Arabia as a horrible human rights abuser so youn openly admit that the US supports   " horrible human rights abusers" unless you wish to deny Biden just signed a massive arms deal with them , just like Trump before him 



.  Am I somehow not allowed to question the conclusions of human rights organizations, and if so, why is that not allowed?

Of course you can question but you're claiming they're all corrupt and biased as they're out to get Jews, right?


People have been going after Jews for millennia, why would it suddenly change in the modern world?

Ah right so it is a concerted effort to go after Jews by human rights organistions worlwide? All as usual assered without a single shred of evidence 

Jews always resort to the " poor us " act when they act exactly  like Nazis and want to excuse their brutality by playing the " What about our suffering in the Holocaust" card , they are it seems allowed to break every human tonight's law as Jews are exempt somehow


When have I expressed support of discrimination and prejudice?

Your denialism of such demonstrates your true colours 

Very nice rebuttal as well. /s

Thank you , but you don't have to state the obvious 



You have hardly ever responded to my argumentation or questions regarding your questions

Nonsense , every point I make you shrug your shoulders and claim its incorrect all because you say so , not once have you backed even one of your opinion pieces up by data.

In fact every time a  site or a link is given to you your childish responses is " your  only use them as you cannot make an argument without them " seriously how does one engage with that level of immaturity?


. I don't think you ever intended to engage in a real debate on this subject.

Your actually deflecting now by accusing me exactly of the tactics you favour as you don't take your beatings very well 

 I'm the only one even trying all you do is claim you're right because you say so , you sound exactly like fellow American Maxx who keeps screeching  " prove me wrong"


I don't mean to be harsh, but I think it is appropriate when my opponent has called me a bigoted, delusional, id*otic k*ke.

You are a bigot , you openly support people like Korngold who rejoice at the bombing of Palestinian shopping malls , you are also deludional as you've openly admitted human rights organistions around the world are out to get Jews , and finally I don't mean to be cruel but seriously an i-diot would in most rational agents minds be someone who cannot ( still ) work out if 1+1 = 2 or 3 

Learn a bit of humility which you could demonstrate by accepting your defeats with good grace 



Finally I see you very slyly pulled down your link saying Israeli troops used Palestinian human shields with " consent" ,

Again you're actually disagreeing with what the Iraeli state admits.........

Seems like you actually think that your made up nonsense is fact you actually deny what the state of Isreael admits, you're plau0ying the very same game as Holocaust deniers and are that delusional you cannot even recognise that 

Israeli high court bans military use of Palestinians as human shields

· Even 'volunteers' breach Geneva pact, judge rules
· Human rights victory after three-year struggle

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem

Fri 7 Oct 2005 00.01

The Israeli high court yesterday ruled that the army's long-standing practice of using Palestinian civilians as human shields in combat is illegal under international law. It said the military's claim to have amended the procedure to allow civilians to "volunteer" to work with the army was still unacceptable because it was unlikely anyone would freely do so.

"You cannot exploit the civilian population for the army's military needs, and you cannot force them to collaborate," said the Israeli chief justice, Aharon Barak. "Based on this principle, we rule it illegal to use civilians as human shields."

The case was brought more than three years ago by human rights organisations that said the army routinely forced Palestinian civilians into dangerous situations as a means to protect soldiers. Some of the most common methods were to force Palestinians into buildings to see if they were booby-trapped, or to enter the hideouts of wanted men and tell them to surrender. Soldiers also forced civilians to stand in front of them when on patrol.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Hamas Member

Dee said:  When german soldiers gave kike woman a hard fu-king up their obliging b-tts the b_tches always farted,,they had a problem with gas

MineSubCraftStarved

@Dee

Finally, I see you very slyly pulled down your link saying Israeli troops used Palestinian human shields with " consent" ,

Which the report supports...

Again you're actually disagreeing with what the Israeli state admits.........

How so?

Israeli high court bans military use of Palestinians as human shields

Again, according to the following report:
https://www.icrc.org/en/doc/assets/files/other/irrc_856_otto.pdf - Civilians do consent to it, rather than being forced to proceed with Open Neighbor Policy procedures. Thus it cannot be considered the use of human shields, especially when the civilian is not placed as a direct obstacle between the soldiers and their enemies.
Regardless, such a practice ended in 2005. Thus Israel cannot be considered to be using Palestinian human shields in any which way now. However, Hamas can as it regularly hides weapon caches, military outposts, and rocket sites deep within residential districts, schools, and hospitals.
A practice can't be considered the use of human shields if the "shield" in question is a willing participant, and is not necessarily in the direct line of fire.
Even assuming that such a practice was in fact a legitimate example of human shields, it was ended about 20 years ago. You then can't say that today, Israel uses human shields.

Ah right, so it is a concerted effort to go after Jews by human rights organizations worldwide? All as usual assured without a single shred of evidence 

Not a concerted effort necessarily, but there is definitely a huge animosity against the Jewish state, which can largely be pointed to large pre-existences of anti-Semitism worldwide.
https://unwatch.org/2022-2023-unga-resolutions-on-israel-vs-rest-of-the-world/ - The UN Watch Database also documents that from 2006 through 2022, the UN Human Rights Council has adopted 99 resolutions against Israel, 41 against Syria, 13 against Iran, 4 against Russia, and 3 against Venezuela.
The international community and leader of organizations on human rights considers Israel a worse country than Syria(a country that gassed tens of thousands of its own citizens), Iran(a fanatical regime bent on oppressing Women, Kurds, and Azerbaijanis), Russia(a country which started one of the largest wars of the 21st century), and Venezuela(a country ruled by a dictator, where citizens are not allowed to speak freely or engage in private commerce). How can these conclusions be anything but biased? Especially when considering that Israel is a liberal democracy that offers Arabs greater freedoms than any other Arab country in the world.

Another fine example of whataboutism.

It's not whataboutism, you can only determine the gravity of human rights abuses of a country by comparison to other countries.

Jews always resort to the " poor us " act when they act exactly  like Nazis and want to excuse their brutality by playing the " What about our suffering in the Holocaust" card , they are it seems allowed to break every human tonight's law as Jews are exempt somehow

STFU with your generalizations of the Jewish claim to victimhood. I honestly couldn't give more of a about discussing any further with a person that compares Jews and Israel to the Nazis and 1940s Germany. There is no point in discussing anything with a fanatical anti-Semite such as yourself.
In virtually every argument you have insulted me, and never barely given any light to any of my real arguments. You have never once defined a terrorist and refused to do so, and thus fallaciously applied Israel to an undefined term.
You seldom actually addressed any of my arguments. You have no intention to engage in civilized debate or open your mind to new opinions.
I can see your mind is already made up of presuppositions regarding Jews and Israel, I have no further intention to speak to you again.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: "What About Israel...?"

...is what dirtbag Hamas supporters say.

Dee

@JulesKorngold

That's a typical response from a cowardly Jew 

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved

You have made many points in your gish gallop style of debate , I've numbered each of your points using standard procedure for the numbering of things , I hope you can follow as I know you're still furiously trying to work out it 1+1=2 or 3 right?


1:
You seem to think refusing to address points made is debate its not, here is your first denial and avoidance 


Why did you take it down then?

Why dud you totally ignore that the state of Isrsel acknowledged human shields were used without consent along with consent under threat?


2: The state of Israel admitted the  use of military shields 


At this stage you're back to denialism.

3: The  state of Israel agreed that human shields were used and in the case of so called " consent " the consent was always under threat 

Again you're denying what the state of Israel.admitted , you're just blatantly lying 

Your lies continue unabated by stating 
the practice ended in 2005, another lie.

If that's the case how come military have been jailed and demoted for using it since then?

Yet another blatant lie by you




4: Ah right so your conclusions are still everyone has it in for Israel.except of course the good ole USA who also solidy back Saudi Arabia 

Each agency can post up reams of supporting their claims that Israel is an abuser of human rights and uses torture  rape  bullying to achieve its aims , Israel totally approve of apartheid as recognised by everyone of these agencies 

It's not surprising a bigot like you supports them in their aims 

4: So it's not (you claim) whataboutisim?

Yet you totally ignored my response to your mention of Saudi Arabia ,USA under Biden has signed another massive arms deal.with Saudi a country you claim has am appaling record of human rights abuses ,your hypocrisy is appaling by any standards 

5: Wow, your best response to a valid comment on a debate site is STFU ,
what are you going to do if I don't? 

Use death threats like fellow American Maxx?

Or maybe di as Kornfed does threaten Aaron with site closure?

Jews are behaving exactly like Nazis ,you being a prime example  you actually excuse the abuse of children used as human shields even an Israeli court acknowledged such 

Jewish military have been jailed and demoted for such yet you lie and pretend otherwise assuming everyone is as uneducated as you.

The same act is played everytime by Jews as in their pain and suffering was so different they accuse everyone else f being unjust ,barbaric and abusive yet when they're doing it they're being just ,kind and inclusive

Playing the Holocaust card doesn't wash with me , Jews don't get off the hook for barbaric savagery by claiming their suffering allows them to be the animals they are.

You call me a " fanatical anti semite ", yet you deny what the state of Israel admits as in human rights abuses against kids , so only fanatic here is you as you actually deny what a court of law agreed in Israel, so my comparison to you behaving like a Nazi is 100 per cent accurate.

I have not insulted you claimed you're a bigot I proved it.

I claimed you're delusional , I proved it by demonstrating the state of Israel agree regards the illegal use of human shields , so you're saying they're lying now or you cannot be both right?

6 : You previously admitted that they used human shields but were punished and you said this proved the state of Israel was just   
You keep contradicting yourself an attempt to lie your way out 

I also asked you to explain ( you cannot ) if a grown man or woman cannot decide if 1+1 is 2 or maybe 3 how would you define that person?

Over here they would be defined as an id-ot or maybe insane,maybe where you live its a sign of genius ?

7 : Here we go again the poor me claim from you yet again, I didn't insult you as they are factual statements regarding you , man up you know I'm right 

You never insult? Yet another lie you spent your night running around the site telling me and others to STFU , you're now up'- voting Kornfeds vile anti Irish posts and support his postion of admitting to "enjoying " watching Palestinian shopping centres getting blown to bits,  right?

I'm sorry you still don't known what terrorism is which I suppose is why you don't understand what you're on about.

All your points were addressed and utterly debunked ,you're annoyed that you've been convincingly thrashed so take the usual out beloved by your type as play the good ole victim card

Debate involves exchanging views not resorting to Ad Hominem attacks Tey bear this in mind next time 

Your complete capitulation was incidentally anticipated 

Dee

@RobertoDuran


He's something else , he uses the same " justifications " as a Nazi and then bawls at the " injustice" of being called one 

Dee

@RobertoDuran


I've come across some vile bigots in my time this creep is right up there 

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Nomenclature Is Still Here

@aarong ;
RobertoDuran is his new alt.

Dee

@MineSubCraftStarved

Just a few points for you that may be helpful, your defeat on this debate  is down to a couple of factors,

1: Your opions are not facts

2: Denying that Israeli courts have found soldiers guilty of war crimes demonstrates clearly you're letting your emotions get in the way of reality.

Try to remain calm in future and focus on the evidence presented to you, emotional arguments convince no one 

3: Claiming 50 ( and counting) human rights organisations are all biased and " have it in for Israel " yet again clearly demonstrates you're letting your emotions dictate your responses

4: Telling your opponent's to STFU is a personal attack and has no place on a debate site ,please try harder in future , again your emotions seem to dictate what you say

5: Try and provide sources for your claims, throwing out unproven opinions like confetti at a wedding is hardly convincing 

6: Don't take it so personally, it's debate not a battle of egos.

7: Try and loosen up. It's meant to be fun

8: No offence intended but can you  check your punctuation and grammar in future before posting ? I'm convinced you can do better, at times I have to read your posts several times to make sense of what you're trying to impart to me and others 

So next time you attempt to furnish your opponent's with your ruminations regards their individual input it would be a capital idea to do a quick check first

Here are some excellent tips that may be useful    moving forward ....Happy Debating,

1. Stay objective. You have to put aside your personal views when you debate and compartmentalise them, because this is what allows you to remain rational. ...
2. Be flexible. ...
3. Look for the grey areas. ...
4. Think about compromise.

JulesKorngold

Argument Topic: Dee's "Respectful" Comment

Dee said:  When german soldiers gave kike woman a hard fu-king up their obliging b-tts the b_tches always farted,,they had a problem with gas

MineSubCraftStarved

@RobertoDuran

Who exactly do you suppose "consented" to using Palestinian children as human shields? The children? Their parents? The Israeli courts who declared it completely illegal? You're such a disgusting toad. Just the absolute worst scum ever defecated from the bowels of mother Earth.

Unless you can demonstrate how Israel uses child shields in any significant number under open neighbor procedures, your point is mute.

No they don't you disgusting Nazi vermin. The terminology used in your very own link is "persuaded" and "pressure might be put on civilians",

The general idea of the “Early Warning Procedure” is to find a volunteer, who is persuaded by words only, is not threatened, and has every possibility to refuse. The person in question may not be ordered to perform military tasks and may not assist in situations where he is liable to be injured. According to the IDF, the “Early Warning Procedure” avoids civilian casualties, i.e. of innocent house occupants, as well as injuries to soldiers who could be targeted while approaching the house.
Yes, they are never physically violated by the procedures indicated by the passage above(at least on paper). While this may not always be fully implemented humanley in practice, this is not representative of the actions of the state, but only of individual soldiers. Thus you can't claim Israel has a policy of coercing them into doing such an action.
So I'm a Nazi for what exactly? Reading a report and quoting it?
Perhaps you ought to read a few holocaust books for spouting off on some that I'm somehow a Nazi. Jokes aside, that's about as low as you can get.

so by the exact same logic, Jews "consented" to working at Hitler's concentration camps.

The SS didn't politely ask them to move to Auschwitz, they were forced by the end of a rifle... Big difference.

So you're trying to rationalise and/or downplay the actions of a country which accumulated 99 UN resolutions for human rights abuses over a 16 year period, aren't you?

Because it demonstrates the significant bias of the UN. Given the massive Syrian human rights violations that no country(including Israel) has managed to reach(even according to their own reports), and their low level of condemnation in comparison to Israel. There is significant bias within the UN against Israel.
Just because an organization condemns a country for an action doesn't mean such a condemnation is merited or valid. That's the fallacy of authority, which is one you are commiting.

Hitler literally used these exact same arguments. 

So by your logic, if Hitler drinks water, and I do the same, am I a Nazi?

https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses

If Israel is systematically abusing it's Arab population, why was there an Arab party in the Israeli government a few years back?

MineSubCraftStarved

@RobertoDuran

Stop pretending that this conversation didn't begin with me doing exactly that.

No, it didn't, making a claim is not proving a claim...

Your complete and total absence of anything resembling honesty makes productive conversation impossible.

Likewise with you.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

I already addressed the same report mentioned in both articles previously, so I'll just repost my argument:
https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/crc/docs/co/CRC-C-ISR-CO-2-4.pdf - This is the actual source of the report which you were too lazy to find.
It found only 14 cases of human shields(and children as informants). And its definition of a human shield is rather flawed. Forcing a nine-year-old child to search a bag isn't a case of using human shields. But, however, it lists it as a case example of a human shield.
Even assuming the claims of 14 are legitimate. These are 14 cases over the span of three years. You can't possibly claim such a practice is systemic out of a country that has an army of 634,500 soldiers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6432133.stm

The use of human shields is illegal under Israeli and international law. The Israeli defense force says it is investigating the allegations.

The statements above were in the article. Your link actually supports my argument, as it demonstrates how Israel as a country abhors practices of human shields and seeks to prevent them. As seen by their willingness to prosecute soldiers who do commit such acts today.

I need you to process the factual reality that Israel is guilty of using Palestinian children as human shields.

And I need you to process the fact that you have failed to demonstrate how Israel uses child shields in any significant number, or as a military policy.

Until you are willing and/or capable of putting your hardcore, raging pro-Israeli bias aside and accepting the truth of that statement, there is nothing further for us to discuss.

Which is why you've called me a Nazi and implied that I'm a pedophile right? Clearly, I'm unwilling to debate if the other person constitutes most of his argument with insults.

Your idea that persuading children to be used as human shields with candy instead of a backhand is any more morally right is exactly the same argument

A. You gave no source of Israel using children extensively during open neighbor procedures.

B. You gave no source showing that Israeli soldiers bribe children with candy to knock on doors in this context.

C. Even assuming A and B were true, this is not representative of the policies of the state, but only of individual soldiers. As such conduct is contrary to their aforementioned policy.

You are quite literally using the logic of a pedophile.

Asking someone to knock on the door of a house to prevent a raid and death, and seeking to molest a child are not even comparable...

Joeseph

@RobertoDuran

Thanks for the heads up R , will tell the kids to keep an eye out for any hook nosed prowlers in the area , his buddy JK has to offer stacks of money to lure kids into his van as  his hook nose terrifies them 

Joeseph

@MineSubCraftStarved


Asking someone to knock on the door of a house to prevent a raid and death, and seeking to molest a child are not even comparable...


Wow! You seek to molest a child .....seriously!!! ......You're one sick puppy .

JulesKorngold

@Joeseph
Is your IQ more than your shoe size?  I doubt it.  But I'm sure your parents were siblings. 

Joeseph

@JulesKorngold

You think I care what a hook nosed kike says?  I'm sure your grandparents enjoyed a nice shower  in the holiday camp