Man is inherently evil

Ohnoes

Argument Topic: Man is evil

Sure we may good things but this is for our own selfish desires when we do good deeds we get a hit of dopamine, we only do anything good for that hit of dopamine,for ourselves too be happy, if being a sinful deed gave us more dopamine then a good deed then we would pick too do the sinful deed

Dreamer

@Ohnoes

Hi, welcome to debateisland. waves

Humans are born neutral like animals. Feral animals are capable of kindness and cruelty. Humans on the other hand who are rich become privilege and evil. Big tobacco hiring the merchants of doubt to spread disinformation about cigarettes, Joe Camel.

https://theconversation.com/tobacco-killed-500-000-americans-in-2020-is-it-time-to-control-cigarette-makers-153611

Those that are poor have no privilege and tend to be good capable of much compassion and empathy.

Factfinder

Ohnoes said:

is man inherently evil born too be bad or are they born too be good

Humans are born. As we grow we learn behaviors and emulate them. Simultaneously we learn what's moral (good) behavior and what's immoral. (bad behavior) While circumstances and environment can sometimes influence internal decision making, ultimately we justify our acts based on what we want. In the end we are capable of good and bad, just like all other animals and what definitions are being applied. Hope that helps.  

maxx

i have created this topic before. It all depends on your ideal of evil. As well I would not use the word created. What we are is born not to do good. Young children have to be taught to be good, to do what is acceptable in society; and if they are not taught to be good, then children will just do what we consider bad things. @Ohnoes

MayCaesar

I see life as a long path through a forest full of dangers and temptations. People are not inherently good or evil, they are just wanderers, adventurers. Over the course of their adventure they make mistakes, take wrong turns, and sometimes go deep into the woods and fall under the influence of witches causing them to do horrible things - but the adventure never ends, not until they die. And in general, the longer it goes on, the wiser the individual becomes. And even the worst things that happen to the wanderer, just like the worst things that they do to other wanderers, ultimately are a gift, a learning experience.

I do not think it makes sense to talk about people as good or evil. Some people do good or evil deeds more often than others, but it does not make them better any more than a tree being taller than another tree makes it better. There are many dimensions to human organism, and good vs evil deeds are just one of the many - plus "good" and "evil" are highly subjective terms. Is a parent that spanks his child regularly, but as a result raises a very responsible and punctual woman, a good or an evil parent? I would not trust myself to make this judgement.

maxx

question: if at a young age you are not taught/learn what is good; to do what is right in the eyes of friends, adults, and society, would you not just act in the opposite of good; especially if there were no repercussions? @MayCaesar

ZeusAres42

I'd argue that this is kind of a false dichotomy. Human nature is determined by a mixture of inherent traits and external factors.

ZeusAres42

maxx said:

question: if at a young age you are not taught/learn what is good; to do what is right in the eyes of friends, adults, and society, would you not just act in the opposite of good; especially if there were no repercussions? @MayCaesar

@maxx ;

Lacking guidance doesn't mean automatic opposition; human nature isn't exactly binary. People can still make choices and exhibit a range of behaviors in the absence of specific guidance. 

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

I'd argue that this is kind of a false dichotomy. Human nature is determined by a mixture of inherent traits and external factors.

Excellent point!

MayCaesar

maxx said:

question: if at a young age you are not taught/learn what is good; to do what is right in the eyes of friends, adults, and society, would you not just act in the opposite of good; especially if there were no repercussions? @MayCaesar

You would act in a way that maximizes your expected level of happiness. And as you do, as you perform experiments in the real world and see their consequence, you would gradually find a lot of behavioral elements that work well and a lot that do not. You would form your own understanding of "good" and "evil", just like ultimately we all do (albeit influenced by the societal norms).

Is it good or evil to punch someone in the face because they said something you dislike? Well, without any societal guidance, you can try it and see where it leads. If you analyze the data impartially, you will very quickly come to understanding that punching people in the face is not exactly conducive to mutually beneficial interaction, and conclude that doing it is evil.

We constantly revise our understanding of "good" and "evil" from just our own experiences, without any direct societal input. I recently was screwed over by someone who I venerated, and I learned my lesson: when you have a serious issue with someone, it has to be brought up immediately, and letting it brew is not a viable option. In the past I would see confronting them over it early as somewhat evil: after all, they are a free individual, so who am I to tell them how to behave? But now my perception is different: when they interact with me, then their freedom is naturally bounded by my needs, and if those needs are not met, then confronting them about it and telling them, "If you keep doing it, we will have to go our separate ways. And if you want to continue this amazing relationship we are having, then please respect my boundaries". In fact, it is evil to not put the issue out there, as it is equivalent to a white lie, deception, manipulation.
We accumulate life experiences as we live that change our moral compass and our interpretation of various actions. Sometimes the societal guidance is involved; other times you might literally be wandering through a frozen desert alone and come to some epiphany.

maxx

Right. In one way or the other, you are taught, or you learn not to do bad. If you were not, you would simply continue an animalistic behavior.  @MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Ohnoes ; The Scriptures tell us that Human Kind is inherently evil due to the Adamic sin-nature. 

 
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—  Romans 5:12 (ESV)

John_C_87

  Compared to a woman a man is inherently evil based on laws of nature. A woman produces one egg from that egg she may produce one child with limited exceptions made by law of nature or science. Men produce multiple large numbers of sperm and all, but one will die in the extension of human life by law of nature. This means all men inherit an evil of death when reproducing life itself the only exception is when a man is unable to sustain a sperm count.

maxx

well, i do not see where this is about religion; however, IF you believe adam and eve were created with evil in their hearts, BEFORE satan got to them, then god id not much of a god to create his creation with an evil intent. I though you were banned once. anyway, psychologically speaking, very young children do not know good behavior unless taught. @RickeyHoltsclaw

jack

Ohnoes said:

is man inherently evil born too be bad or are they born too be good

Hello O:

Neither..  He's born to survive.  In order to do so, he's gonna have to kill some game.  To some, eating meat is immoral.  To me, starving yourself for some idea that hasn't even been thought yet, is incomprehensibly stu*pid..  Fortunately, our ancestors weren't stu*pid.

excon

John_C_87

@jack

Neither..  He's born to survive.  In order to do so, he's gonna have to kill some game.  To some, eating meat is immoral.  To me, starving yourself for some idea that hasn't even been thought yet, is incomprehensibly stu*pid..  Fortunately, our ancestors weren't stu*pid.

The problem is hunting is not inherent to only men women hunt and animals, while eating meat or plants a form of lethal force is applied either way. Eating meat is no more immoral than eating vegetables and fruit. By eating vegetables and fruit we move seeds and to breed meat we also move seeds in the form of animal sperm and egg. The united state formed by your example is too large and does not represent only men as inherently evil. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; Elohim tells you that man is evil due the sin-nature (Romans 5:12). Adam was created in perfection but relented to the enticement of his wife and compromised with evil; hence, the fall of human kind and the need for Jesus and the Gospel which were ordained "before Time began."

maxx

If adam was createdin perfection. Then he wasn't created evil as you previously stated.  Now how about getting off the religious kick,, and answer in a psychological/genetic point of view.  Or are younot capable of doing so? @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; I reiterate what I said...Adam was not created evil but He was created in perfection...possessing free will to choose good or evil. Evil flows from our genomic relationship with Adam, our original Earthly father...this is not "religion" but fact and you will not find the genesis of man's sin-nature anywhere else but the Canon of Scripture.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Your little book contradicts itself at the very beginning. Adam was created in perfection, yet acted in an imperfect way... It takes some dark religious blinders to not see the contradiction here.

The Bible, the Quran and the Torah are the kind of fantasy books where there are plot holes, retcons and fifth walls at every corner, and it takes years of conditioning through sermons to teach one to accept all these contradictions and rationalize them away. Kind of like in the Soviet Union or Mao's China people would read the works of Marx, Lenin and Mao, and go, "Huh, in this sentence he says that in the ideal world everyone is wealthy; but in that sentence he says that being wealthy is unjust. Ah, whatever, this is the Chairman God Himself! I will never fully understand the depth of his argument."

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; Adam was created in the spiritual image of Elohim (Genesis 1:1; 1:26-28) and therefore possessed certain divine communicable attributes of Elohim, one such attributed was volition or "free will" to choose and in order for Adam's love and intimacy with Elohim to be proven authentic, Elohim provided Adam the opportunity to choose holiness and purity through obedience or compromise with evil through disobedience and Adam relented to the enticement of his wife and the fall of humanity followed.

The Torah prefaces the New Covenant. Islam's Quran is a forgery plagiarized by Muhammad in the 7th-Century in a vain attempt to convince the Jews and Christians in Medina to follow his new religion (Islam). 

Where you err in life and in your worldview and in your defunct and perverse ideology is a lack of knowledge concerning the Spiritual, the Canon of Scripture, the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning your presence in Time and your destiny in the Spiritual Realm. You're existing in self-righteousness and arrogance and vulgarity and pride and rebellion to your Creator; therefore, you have no way of knowing because you refuse to see. I would be honored to show you the Way if you're willing to listen?

maxx

Do you even know how the bible was written? How many changes and different translations it has gone through
 It hardly even resembles the original works, so why should people believe in a set of books that humans gave changed si much because they didn't like the original. Who Wrote The Bible? This Is What The Actual Historical Evidence Says (allthatsinteresting.com) @RickeyHoltsclaw

just_sayin

maxx said:

well, i do not see where this is about religion; however, IF you believe adam and eve were created with evil in their hearts, BEFORE satan got to them, then god id not much of a god to create his creation with an evil intent. I though you were banned once. anyway, psychologically speaking, very young children do not know good behavior unless taught. @RickeyHoltsclaw

First, evil is not a created thing.  It is not an independent thing at all. it is the deprivation of good.  In the same way darkness does not have a physical essence, evil also does not.  Darkness is the absence of light - it is defined by the absence of the thing that actually exists.  In the same way, evil is not an actual thing, but a deprivation of an objective good.  Therefore, God did not create evil, for it is not a created thing.  Free will allows for evil though.  In that anyone is able to choose to go against the good.  In any world where free will exists, evil will eventually be present.  This is not a defect of that which is good as you suggested.

maxx

any one who is very religious should at least understand the history of their own beliefs. I suggest both  of you read the dead sea scrolls and as well as the leningrad codex; both which are available on internet archive. @RickeyHoltsclaw @just_sayin

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; The Holy Spirit, who resides within me by New Covenant promise (Ephesians 1:13-14; John 14:16) is my "history" of my faith and He teaches that evil was initiated by an anointed cherub angel in the Spiritual Realm (Ezekiel 28:11+; John 8:44) and this rebellious cherub is the causation for the Creation Narrative and the complex human genome. 

There is much to be learned and you can begin your journey with Genesis 1:1 and discover the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning Elohim's purposes in Time and in Eternity. You are lacking knowledge and you are perishing in your sin and Time is running out.

maxx

well your scriptures today are incorrect. In probably another 100 years, the bible will have changed again; so much you will not recognize it as the same one you are reading now; and just like you; people then will say it is the correct version, and all other past versions are wrong.  So go ahead and believe that what you are reading is true; even though earlier versions show different aspects of the bible that are not in todays, or contradict it. way to go ricky.  if there is a god, or if i really believed in some creator, i would not need a book of any kind to give me the knowledge. If I was not able to talk to god or have him talk to me without having to have a collection of books to guide me; books that have been changed since they were written, and will continue to change; then i would not bother. Think about it. People believed in god long before any written material. The bible may be good reading material; but if there is a god; that bible is not his word. The thing about you and others; is that to support your ideas, is you point at passages in the bible.If there is a god, and if you believe in god, then i suggest you put away that bible and search for him elsewhere because he is not in those passages.  @RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; Adam was created in the spiritual image of Elohim (Genesis 1:1; 1:26-28) and therefore possessed certain divine communicable attributes of Elohim, one such attributed was volition or "free will" to choose and in order for Adam's love and intimacy with Elohim to be proven authentic, Elohim provided Adam the opportunity to choose holiness and purity through obedience or compromise with evil through disobedience and Adam relented to the enticement of his wife and the fall of humanity followed.

The Torah prefaces the New Covenant. Islam's Quran is a forgery plagiarized by Muhammad in the 7th-Century in a vain attempt to convince the Jews and Christians in Medina to follow his new religion (Islam). 

Where you err in life and in your worldview and in your defunct and perverse ideology is a lack of knowledge concerning the Spiritual, the Canon of Scripture, the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning your presence in Time and your destiny in the Spiritual Realm. You're existing in self-righteousness and arrogance and vulgarity and pride and rebellion to your Creator; therefore, you have no way of knowing because you refuse to see. I would be honored to show you the Way if you're willing to listen?

Oh, I have a lot of spiritual content on my hard drive, trust me. Wanna check out my personal collection? Let us start with something softcore, shall we? No spanking just yet.

maxx

I ask a question.  What makes you think that the books of the Bible that you read today, is the word of God instead of the original works?  @RickeyHoltsclaw

Barnardot

@maxx ;I ask a question.  What makes you think that the books of the Bible that you read today, is the word of God instead of the original works?  @RickeyHoltsclaw

Your never going to get a strait answer out of Rickey D being the more on troll that he is.

But it would be worth asking him for evidence. Like does he have a signed copy of the Bible?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; The Bible has never "changed." Our Creator immutable attributes and His words are immutable.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; Provide your initial premise...we'll begin our discussion from there. Would you like to open a new window, initiate a fresh debate segment? If so, advise when you've open a new debate, thanks.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@John_C_87 ; It is the first woman who brought evil to the first man.

maxx

well, if you wish to lie to yourself; feel free.  I could easily provide proof that there has been numerous changes in the bible since its conception. You do not even realize that in the first hebrew bible, the books were in a different order . read your own religious history! Aleppo Codex - Wikipedia  @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; Let's hear your "proof."

maxx

you didnt read the link did you?  I also asked you a question on why you do not read these early bibles, since they were the first and contain the actual word of god.  @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; Not a big fan of Wiki and I truly do believe, maxx, that our Creator is omnipotent and that He has provided for me, in His Canon of Scripture, the EXACT words He desires I have so that I can know Him personally; love Him intimately; live with Him eternally. 

I have full confidence in the Father, in Jesus, in the Holy Spirit, that they love me, have provided for me, have given me everything I need for this life and the life to come and I TRUST my Lord fully. I know you do not and my words do NOT resonate with you...we are very different people and we will have to agree to disagree.

I see life from the Holy Spirit's perspective, you do NOT...that's OK...we can still have some very interesting discussion...I look forward to them.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; Provide your initial premise...we'll begin our discussion from there. Would you like to open a new window, initiate a fresh debate segment? If so, advise when you've open a new debate, thanks.

The premise of my entire philosophy is that the individual is a thinking being, and that the well-being of this being is fully determined by its level of happiness. This means that the individual should rely on no one's and nothing's interpretation of "good" and "evil" but his own. However, he should not just define these arbitrarily: "good" things are those that increase the individual's happiness, and "evil" things are those that decrease it.

This leads to my "Chaotic Good" alignment: people should mess around, experiment, do things that make no sense sometimes - in order to deepen their understanding of their organism's reaction to various stimuli and adjust their behaviors. In the ideal world populated by people like me, you would have crazy, but physically harmless, things happening all over the place: orgies on the street, hikes across continents, musical experiments violating the basics of musical theory... The exploration, the adventure is what it is all about.

The opposite to it is any kind of conservatism or collectivism. Religion, socialism, nationalism, tribalism - all this stuff telling the individual that his own mind is worthless and that he has to outsource his thinking to someone else, be it god, local community, society or humanity in general. You guys in my view are weak followers who sit in the audience, watching things happen and passively reacting to them. The actors on stage are us, people relentlessly pushing forward, taking risks, throwing traditions out the window and never looking back. And I want everyone to be an actor, not a member of the audience.

What say you?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar

1) Moral relativism is a tenet of the demonic where every man does what is right in their own eyes and the pursuit of sensuality is the epitome of human existence. This is a lie of the Devil as narcissism - hedonism ultimately leaves one empty and dejected and nihilistic. It is true love for God, your neighbor, that engenders enduring self-worth and "happiness."

Jesus taught in Matthew 5 (The Sermon on the Mount)

Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them.

The Beatitudes

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
    for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
    for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
    for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
    for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
    for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
    for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
    for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

2) Pursuit of gratifying the flesh only destroys the soul...it is intimacy with our Creator and our family and our service to others that engenders lasting happiness and peace. When we look outward we see with clarity and when we look inward, we are blinded by our lusts and discontentment.

It is written,

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.  Galatians 5 (ESV)

3) Conservatism - mind-body-soul is sustainable, peaceful, the elements of true contentment that will endure throughout eternity.

5 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1 (ESV

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Your comment kind of puts you in the uncharitable of the two categories of people my philosophy outlines. I asked "What say you?", and you provided a few passages from a book that you did not write.

I will repeat my question: what say you?

You also misunderstood my philosophy, it seems. I do not promote hedonism. I do promote experimentation with hedonic pleasures, but hedonism as in engaging in them recklessly and thinking only about the pleasure in the moment runs against it.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; I say that if a man or woman desires a life of peace and contentment, they must seek the only One who grants true peace and contentment, Jesus Christ, as our Messiah who died for us that could live with Him eternally. Mankind lives a life pursuing "something" to fill the void within but so "few" find that which fits that void perfectly...Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Wisdom and Peace who indwells the faithful in Jesus...this is true life and I can testify to same subsequent 66-years of walking this Earth.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Well, you did not really provide criticism of my philosophy; you just suggested a different philosophy. Your philosophy seems to put peace and contentment above joy and happiness. In my philosophy, contentment is the last thing you want: you want to constantly push yourself, put yourself in uncomfortable situations and learn something from them, for that is how you grow as an individual. If you are just content, sitting in a monastery and meditating all day, then you do not have much of a life, in my opinion.

I have seen no evidence presented by you, for that matter, that only through finding Jesus Christ, an individual from one specific religion, can one achieve peace and contentment. Does it imply that before Jesus existed no one lived in peace and contentment? Does it mean that in cultures where Christianity never took a strong foothold almost no one lives in peace and contentment?
By virtually all metrics the Japanese are the most peaceful and content humans on Earth, yet Christianity is very uncommon in Japan, with less than 1.5% following it. On the other hand, Christianity is VERY common in Russia (nearly half the population follows it), and if you ever go to Russia and look at the faces of those people, you will struggle to think of them as living in peace and contentment.
How do all these facts square with your claim?

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; There is no true, enduring, joy and happiness void peace and contentment. Contentment is the goal and it under girds peace, joy, happiness...perhaps that's a benefit of age and a life well lived.

Perhaps Japan's Shintoism, Buddhism, Confucianism are methods of exploring peace and contentment. Russia's discontentment stems from societal strife and unrest, tyranny, and the measure of peace and contentment is one's intimate relationship with the Holy Spirit...not all Christians have "arrived." 

The Truth is...those who honor Jesus by faith and walk by the Spirit are provided contentment, assurance, insight concerning the who, what, where, when, why, how, relevant to this temporary life constrained by Time and physics, this knowledge, provided the one who seeks it. I lived 35-years in the strife of life and I found peace in Jesus through my first read of the New Testament...I would NEVER go back to the life before Jesus.

And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:7

 

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Depends on your temperament. People who move the world forward are the ones who are never satisfied, who constantly set new goals and embark on new adventures. No Buddhist monk has ever changed the world, but countless explorers and inventors have.

If Japan's Eastern religions/spiritual movements demonstrably make for the highest levels of peace and contentment of all discovered, then does your statement about finding Jesus being the only means of it false? In fact, it does not appear to even be the best one. Traditionally Christian nations, such as the US, the UK or France, have populations far less peaceful and content than that of Japan.

It is possible that Christianity resonated with you somehow: again, everyone has a unique temperament, and perhaps yours aligns with its spirit. I am not sure why you assume that it would resonate with everyone else as well. And I strongly suspect that, while you seem satisfied with your life as a Christian, you simply do not know what you are missing by living a safe and peaceful life.
Eastern philosophies, too, promote achieving some sort of calm, balance, transcendence, where you stop craving material goods and physical and emotional sensations and are just okay with being. To me it seems like accepting mediocrity. Much like someone who wanted to become a scientist, but became discouraged with how hard science is and said, "Ah, whatever, I will just be an office clerk doing mindless work instead". It is giving up on yourself and your dreams. 

I should add that, based on your description, your pre-Christian life was pretty abysmal. It was not at all the kind of life I am advocating for. I am not advocating for drinking alcohol endlessly, having sex with random women, hoarding money out of some insecurity. I am instead advocating for endless exploration of the world around you and yourself, without being dominated either by extraneous ideologies and other people's opinions, or your primal urges. It is a life in which you regularly put yourself in discomfort intentionally and see what happens. It has some similarities with stoicism, but, unlike stoicism, it does away with all collectivism and mysticism. I do not think that there is such a thing as "serving the society" or "collective good".

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar

1) Christians moved the United States forward, yet they found contentment in Jesus as their Messiah.

2) Jesus offers more than simple peace and contentment, He provided the only Path to eternal life once we exhale our last in this body of decaying flesh (John 14:6).

3) Jesus resonated with me because the Scriptures are Truth and they are Life and there is no other path to eternal knowledge and the will of Elohim but through the Scriptures (Hebrews 4:12).

4) A life of endless exploration and adventure is readily available for those who trust in Jesus...how much more interesting can that life be when one possesses a knowledge of why they exist and where they're headed when this life fades away coupled with intimacy via covenant relationship with our Creator?

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

I was starting to enjoy this conversation - and here you go again with your dogmatism... No explanation, no justification, just "the Bible is true because it is true". It is always like this.

My theory that it is impossible to have a lengthy conversation with a deep religious believer without them slipping into dogmatism so far holds true. *sigh*

This kind of mental traps is one of the things my philosophy warns about. When you are caught in a loop caused by either external influence or your inner confusion, it is very hard to escape - and, in fact, you do not want to escape. You do not want to leave your comfortable cave and explore the wonderful world out there.
Oh well, I tried. See, Rickey, how difficult it is to preach? It never works!

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar

1) The Bible is "true" because it explains the who, what, where, when, why, how, relevant to our existence and the eschatology articulated within cannot be obfuscated or denied as it is 100% correct and irrefutable. This is NOT the work of man.

2) You're unable to have a deep and meaningful conversation with one who honors our Creator by faith because you are spiritually dead, your cognition, your ability to understand, is limited by your sin and your servitude to Satan.

3) There is no "mental trap" but the Evil One you have willingly accepted as your god (2 Corinthians 4:4) has you trapped in a life of nihilism and headed to a death of futility in your unbelief when LIFE is before you and faith is the KEY yet you argue for your father, the Devil...

You have the ability to sit for an hour and read the scant 21-Chapters of the "Gospel of John" and at least make an informed decision concerning your eternal destiny yet you're too fearful and cowardly to pursue a life of honor and dignity by humbling yourself before our Creator and trusting in Him as your wisdom and discernment...this is truly sad.

ZeusAres42

@MayCaesar

You do know that is rickeyD right? I wonder where that preaching troll went. I had predicted that he will start to flood the forums again with religious preaching trash that he probably doesn't even believe in irl anyway. And he will continue. There will soon be dozens of his rubbish all over his forum by the end of the week. 

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

With every word you say, you support my thesis. Complete inability to think and engage with arguments laying even slightly outside of your biblical comfort zone.

I said it before, and I will say it again: I would rather be tortured by ISIS daily, than live as a human being without the ability to critically think. Physical pain I can handle; the pain of being an ant in a hive with no autonomy or independence - that is true horror. And the most horrifying thing about it is the fact that I would not even see it as a problem.
Ever read Orwell's "1984"? How did you feel about the last scene? That is about how I feel about the idea of living your life.

Plato described how humans enjoy their limited wisdom, then grow wiser, look back and cannot believe they used to be so blind. At the time they think that their current state of mind is natural, but reflecting on it from the future makes it look terrifying.
What is the only thing worse than it? Never growing wiser to begin with. Thinking that your life is okay while in actuality even a slightly more enlightened version of you would rather die than live it.

I used to think that it is better to live in North Korea and be blind to the world outside, than to get to live in South Korea first, and then move back to North Korea: it is much easier to live a sucky life when you do not have an outside perspective, than when you do and realize how much better your life can be.
I was wrong. It is better to know how terrible your life is, for at least that gives you a target to move towards - than to think that your terrible life is okay.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;  1) Why would I engage a servant of the Devil void my faith and the omnipotent words of my Lord (John 8:44)?

2) Critical thinking is what brings one to the realization of our Creator's existence and His sovereignty over all life. It is the fool that says there is no God (Psalm 14:1).

3) Plato was just a man with limited cognitive ability. I trust in the One who created the human genome and possesses infinite knowledge and is omnipotent.

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

2) Critical thinking is what brings one to the realization of our Creator's existence and His sovereignty over all life. It is the fool that says there is no God (Psalm 14:1).

There is so much irony in this passage... The citation at the end is icing on the cake.