Man is inherently evil

ZeusAres42

@MayCaesar

One way to deal with this guy if you have the time, skills and means is to create some kind of automated response. If I read correctly that is what another user said to me in the past that they did.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; If you cannot handle the reality of our Creator and His omnipotence, don't respond to me...if you can't handle a refutation of your foolishness and inability to communicate with understanding...don't bother...I tried to respond to your foolishness but AI would not permit it.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; Simply because you're dead spiritually does not negate the truth that the one who reads and studies and prays over the Scriptures is the one who comes to the logical conclusion that our Creator exists and that He possesses dominion, sovereignty, over our life. You would rather blaspheme that which you are ignorant about while serving the one who will deceive your soul into Hell...this is the work of the fool, not the critical thinker.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; If that's the best you've got...go for it.

MayCaesar

ZeusAres42 said:

@MayCaesar

One way to deal with this guy if you have the time, skills and means is to create some kind of automated response. If I read correctly that is what another user said to me in the past that they did.

I think the best way to deal with this kind of folks is for us to stop procrastinating and get back to work. I am only engaging with him because this interview preparation is quite frustrating and a distraction is needed.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;  You haven't the soul/spiritual capacity to engage...you're lost, impotent, dead in your sin and your father has blinded you...can't respond with spiritual intellect...your father won't permit it.

maxx

you are engaging in circular reasoning. You say those scriptures are true and for evidence you point at the scriptures. You also have no idea how your religion even began' or do not care. You will not accept the first hebrew bible as gods word even though jesus was a hebrew.In other words, you are blinded by your own faith. It also does not matter if you do not like wiki; it is still true on what they say about the earliest bibles.You are like someone who received a new world history book; different in many aspects than the earlier versions. you only accept the newer book, regardless of the original material. Another thing, is why are you constantly throwing religion into debate topics that has no religious topic? Isnt that what gotten you banned before? Why do you not stick to the actual topic of the debate instead of inserting religion into a topic that has no religious bearing at all.  @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; 1) It is NOT "Circular Reasoning" to observe the supernatural phenomena that inundates my senses 24/7/365 and come to a logical conclusion that this phenomena is the resultant of design and obviously an omnipotent Designer (Romans 1:20). 

2) It is NOT "Circular Reasoning" to take the initiative and pursue the Name and Identity and purpose of this omnipotent Designer and come to the logical conclusion that He has exclaimed and articulated the who, what, where, when, why, how, concerning His reality, His purposes for having created and His immutable eschatological plan for Time and Eternity; these, clearly articulated within the Canon of Scripture.

3) The Torah, as presented in the Canon of Scripture, is the infallible work of the Holy Spirit and I accept it fully. 

4) This particular thread concerns the evil of human nature...that can ONLY be properly addressed through the Spiritual which is clearly articulated within the Canon of Scripture (Genesis 3; Romans 5:12). 

5) I left this forum before due to the censorship, especially the censorship surrounding LGBTQ and the disaster it has become in American society. I was censored by the AI and the forum moderator was an advocate of that censorship.

6) The actual topic of discussion is "Man is inherently evil" and there is no addressing this subject but by the Spiritual...if you were wise and discerning and not wholly prejudiced against faith and spirituality in your servitude to the Devil, you would understand this. 

 

 

MayCaesar

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@maxx ; 1) It is NOT "Circular Reasoning" to observe the supernatural phenomena that inundates my senses 24/7/365 and come to a logical conclusion that this phenomena is the resultant of design and obviously an omnipotent Designer (Romans 1:20). 

I think the scientific term for what you are describing is "schizophrenia". Regardless, your reasoning is circular: you cannot propose any experiment that would allow an independent observer to verify your claims. Your "evidence" comes down to "Just have faith, and you will see that I am right". It is like a Nigerian prince telling his email's recipient, "Just send me $5,000, buddy, you will see that I am not lying".

Phite

If man is inherently evil, then there is no doubt that the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.

maxx

It IS circular reasoning if you point at the book and say it is true because the book says so. Do you not understand the definition?  Again I ask; in which I did not get a real answer, is why do you not believe in the actual wording of the original bible instead of the one you have today; one that has been changed since its beginning, and will continue to change until it no longer resembles what it is today; let alone what it originally was. I could care less in what you believe; i think in many aspects; religion has done a lot of good for the world, at least if you believe in the earliest humans believing in god(s), which you do not. However, if i were as religious as you; i would at least understand its own history. Have you ever heard of apocatastasis? @RickeyHoltsclaw

ZeusAres42

@RickeyHoltsclaw

The debate surrounding the inherent nature of humanity is as old as philosophical and theological discourse itself. A particular viewpoint, as presented by you RickeyHoltsclaw (AKA RickeyD), posits that humanity is inherently evil, citing the Adamic sin-nature and referencing Romans 5:12 to underscore the belief that sin, introduced through one man, has rendered all of humanity inherently sinful. This argument herein aims to rebut this assertion by exploring theological diversity, philosophical and ethical considerations, psychological insights, the interpretive breadth of biblical messages, and the concept of free will. By dissecting these dimensions, we argue against the simplification of human nature as inherently evil, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of human capabilities for both good and evil.

Theological Diversity Within Christianity

Firstly, the assertion of inherent evil overlooks the rich tapestry of interpretations within Christianity itself. The Eastern Orthodox Church's perspective on ancestral sin highlights that, though the world is marred by sin, individuals are born with the capacity for moral decision-making, suggesting a more optimistic view of human nature. This diversity challenges the monolithic interpretation of original sin and suggests a broader, more hopeful, theological dialogue on human potential for good.

Philosophical and Ethical Considerations

Philosophically, the narrative of inherent evil is contested by centuries of moral philosophy that emphasize the potential for good and evil within all humans. Thinkers like Immanuel Kant have championed the idea of intrinsic moral worth and the capacity of individuals to act according to universal moral laws. This philosophical stance underscores the belief in human potential for ethical behavior, directly challenging the notion of an irredeemably evil human nature.

Psychological and Sociobiological Insights

Empirical research in psychology and evolutionary biology further refutes the idea of inherent evil by showcasing the evolutionary benefits of altruism, cooperation, and empathy. These traits, essential for the survival and flourishing of communities, suggest an innate predisposition towards behaviors that enhance group survival, arguing against the reduction of human nature to mere evilness.

Biblical Interpretations and the Message of Redemption

Moreover, a broader interpretation of biblical texts reveals a message of redemption, transformation, and the power of love and forgiveness. The teachings of Jesus, emphasizing compassion and redemption, offer a path towards overcoming sin that contradicts the deterministic view of humanity's inherent evilness. This biblical perspective supports the view that human nature, while susceptible to sin, is also capable of profound goodness and moral growth.

Free Will and Moral Agency

Central to this debate is the concept of free will, a foundational element in numerous religious, philosophical, and ethical systems. The capacity for individuals to choose between good and evil actions implies a dynamic nature of human morality, contrary to the notion of a static inherent evil. The emphasis on free will supports the argument that individuals are not bound by an original sin-nature but are capable of moral growth and righteousness.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the argument that humanity is inherently evil due to the Adamic sin-nature is a reductionist view that fails to account for the complexity of human nature and the diverse interpretations of morality across theological, philosophical, and scientific fields. By considering the theological diversity within Christianity, philosophical and ethical insights, psychological research, the inclusive messages of biblical texts, and the importance of free will, we find a more nuanced and hopeful understanding of human nature. This perspective acknowledges the capacity for both good and evil within humans but emphasizes the potential for moral choice, growth, and redemption. Thus, rather than accepting a doctrine of inherent evil, we advocate for a view of humanity that recognizes its profound potential for goodness, change, and ethical evolution.

MayCaesar

@ZeusAres42

I see what you did there. In any case, sorry to say that Rickey will, at best, quickly skim through *your* comment, and then produce another bunch of Biblical claims completely unrelated to anything in it.

ZeusAres42

MayCaesar said: @ZeusAres42 I see what you did there. In any case, sorry to say that Rickey will, at best, quickly skim through *your* comment, and then produce another bunch of Biblical claims completely unrelated to anything in it. @MayCaesar

True but two can play this game. 

And yes, I am bored two now XD. 

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

That was as the most methodical dismantling of an opponent's arguments as I've seen in a long, long time.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ; The "evidence" surrounds you...you simply refuse to see it or pursue it. You are therefore, "without excuse."

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; The Bible before me is the Bible the Holy Spirit has ordained that I have in my possession.

MayCaesar

@RickeyHoltsclaw

Ooooooh, someone thousands years ago said that I am without excuse... How am I going to sleep tonight?!

maxx

Nice AI response.  @ZeusAres42

maxx

2 Timothy 3 Interlinear Bible (biblehub.com)  case in point, changes in the bible occur all of the time and what you have today is different than the original. Christians are constantly changing the scriptures to what they want them to say. @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ; There are no changes in the Scriptures. There are additions in newer manuscripts to clarify points of theological debate and doctrine but these are noted in the margins that such content is NOT found in early manuscripts, Mark 16:9-20 being but one example...Mark 16:9-20 is bracketed in modern translations noting that these Scriptures are not found in early manuscripts and studies reflect the idea that a Scribe added the ending to Mark's rather abrupt closure and that said Scribe never intended for the paragraph to be viewed as "inspired" but separated it from the text...it was inadvertently grouped with the text in a copy and wrongly found its way into the original text...

1. Mark 16:9 Later mss add vv 9-20
2. Mark 16:20 A few late mss and ancient versions contain this paragraph, usually after v 8; a few have it at the end of the ch

Another example is John 7:53-8:11...which notates that these verses are not found in the earliest manuscripts but there is a note indicating this for the reader; therefore, building doctrine using these verses is NOT advised.

>>>>>[The earliest manuscripts and many other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53—8:11. A few manuscripts include these verses, wholly or in part, after John 7:36, John 21:25, Luke 21:38 or Luke 24:53.]

We can argue your absurdity and your vain and frivolous attempts to disparage the inspiration of the Scriptures as you seek to justify your path to death in Hell...but it is YOU that loses, eternally.

  

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@MayCaesar ; The "evidence" surrounds you...you simply refuse to see it or pursue it. You are therefore, "without excuse."

"Human nature cannot be confined to a single narrative of inherent evil; to do so overlooks the boundless capacity for empathy, altruism, and transformation within each of us. The evidence of goodness is as pervasive as that of conflict, but it requires a commitment to recognize and nurture it. We are endowed not with an excuse for despair but with the responsibility to foster the seeds of compassion and understanding that lie within our collective heart.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; Human Nature is evil and this is a major disconnect for the mindless Progressive-Democrat who suggests that a human being is inherently "good" and all that is required for that "good" to manifest in a society is to provide same with Maslow's needs, an environment that meets basic human needs and humanity will flourish like a flower...this is a Marxist-Socialist utopian LIE...a welfare state that is consumed in infidelity, laziness, stupidity.

We see this failed ideology on the streets of our larger municipalities today, the "sanctuary cities" governed by mindless, nitwit, Progressives, and their pandering to these thug elements, post no bail, reduced or no adjudication, defund the police. This is demonic at its root, stupidity in its practice, insanity in its reality. It is the spiritual idiocy of Progressive "do-gooders" who advocate for this false dichotomy of unrestrained human nature and societal utopia...it's is disgusting and it's insanity and our most innocent suffer greatly. 

Reopen and fully fund state-run insane asylums and incarcerate 2/3rd's of the Democrats-Progressives and then "utopia" will be possible.

 

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ; Human Nature is evil and this is a major disconnect for the mindless Progressive-Democrat who suggests that a human being is inherently "good" and all that is required for that "good" to manifest in a society is to provide same with Maslow's needs, an environment that meets basic human needs and humanity will flourish like a flower...this is a Marxist-Socialist utopian LIE...a welfare state that is consumed in infidelity, laziness, stupidity.

We see this failed ideology on the streets of our larger municipalities today, the "sanctuary cities" governed by mindless, nitwit, Progressives, and their pandering to these thug elements, post no bail, reduced or no adjudication, defund the police. This is demonic at its root, stupidity in its practice, insanity in its reality. It is the spiritual idiocy of Progressive "do-gooders" who advocate for this false dichotomy of unrestrained human nature and societal utopia...it's is disgusting and it's insanity and our most innocent suffer greatly. 

Reopen and fully fund state-run insane asylums and incarcerate 2/3rd's of the Democrats-Progressives and then "utopia" will be possible.

 

It is through understanding, not division, that we pave the way for a future where everyone can flourish. The real insanity lies not in striving for a better world but in accepting a status quo that leaves too many behind. 

Amen to secular positive humanism!

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; Your ideology is NOT progressive but regressive. You seek to conform society to your false idea of a utopian paradise that is not attainable through liberal-progressive polices. You have FAILED and American society is dying in the quagmire of the idiocy that is Progressivism.

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ; Your ideology is NOT progressive but regressive. You seek to conform society to your false idea of a utopian paradise that is not attainable through liberal-progressive polices. You have FAILED and American society is dying in the quagmire of the idiocy that is Progressivism.

Progress is not about crafting a utopian paradise but striving towards a society where every individual has the opportunity to thrive. Our aim is to address inequalities and injustices, fostering a community where compassion and empathy guide us, rather than division. To dismiss these goals as regressive is to overlook the fundamental human capacity for growth and improvement. The true measure of a society is not its aversion to change but its commitment to bettering the lives of all its members. Progressivism seeks to evolve, not regress, recognizing that the path forward is built on understanding, adaptation, and the collective well-being. Amen to secular positive humanism!

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; The only societal construct where every human being is afforded an opportunity to thrive is capitalism rooted in meritocracy. Empathy is NOT welfare, your justice is not realized through defunding the police, impotence in the ADA's offices and courts...these are the root of societal suffering and inequality for every law-abiding citizen. Progressivism betters NOTHING for NO ONE but the elite who call the shots and reap the benefits of graft. Secular Humanism is demonic at its root and fertile ground for the naive, the deceived, the arrogantly defiant.

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ; The only societal construct where every human being is afforded an opportunity to thrive is capitalism rooted in meritocracy. Empathy is NOT welfare, your justice is not realized through defunding the police, impotence in the ADA's offices and courts...these are the root of societal suffering and inequality for every law-abiding citizen. Progressivism betters NOTHING for NO ONE but the elite who call the shots and reap the benefits of graft. Secular Humanism is demonic at its root and fertile ground for the naive, the deceived, the arrogantly defiant.

Capitalism, while fostering innovation and growth, often fails to address systemic inequalities that prevent many from having a fair opportunity to thrive. Meritocracy presupposes equal starting points, a condition not met in reality. Empathy in policy means creating safety nets and opportunities for all, not just welfare. Effective justice and public safety involve comprehensive approaches, including but not limited to policing. Reforms aim to correct imbalances and ensure justice serves everyone equitably. Progressivism and secular humanism advocate for inclusivity, equity, and the dignity of all individuals, challenging the status quo to ensure benefits and opportunities are not confined to a select few but accessible to all. Far from serving elite interests, these ideologies seek to dismantle barriers and empower communities, advocating for a society where everyone's potential can be realized. Amen to positive secular humanism!

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; There are no systematic inequalities but a failure to work, to study, to persevere...to strive...you advocate for lawlessness, laziness, DEI, reverse discrimination via Progressive - Regressive policies that are failing BEFORE your very eyes.

Meritocracy presupposes NOTHING but hard work, diligence, intelligence, and qualifying for a position in society appropriate for the talent and work and dedication given.

Progressivism advocates for laziness, ineptitude, Affirmative Action, DEI, which destroys a society that relies upon the most qualified and talented for sustainability.

America has no barriers but only those constructed by a defunct, Progressive educational system that morphs idiocy, laziness, entitlement, hate for America and hate for honor and dignity in a job well done.

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ; The only societal construct where every human being is afforded an opportunity to thrive is capitalism rooted in meritocracy. Empathy is NOT welfare, your justice is not realized through defunding the police, impotence in the ADA's offices and courts...these are the root of societal suffering and inequality for every law-abiding citizen. Progressivism betters NOTHING for NO ONE but the elite who call the shots and reap the benefits of graft. Secular Humanism is demonic at its root and fertile ground for the naive, the deceived, the arrogantly defiant.

Capitalism, while fostering innovation and growth, often fails to address systemic inequalities that prevent many from having a fair opportunity to thrive. Meritocracy presupposes equal starting points, a condition not met in reality. Empathy in policy means creating safety nets and opportunities for all, not just welfare. Effective justice and public safety involve comprehensive approaches, including but not limited to policing. Reforms aim to correct imbalances and ensure justice serves everyone equitably. Progressivism and secular humanism advocate for inclusivity, equity, and the dignity of all individuals, challenging the status quo to ensure benefits and opportunities are not confined to a select few but accessible to all. Far from serving elite interests, these ideologies seek to dismantle barriers and empower communities, advocating for a society where everyone's potential can be realized. Amen to positive secular humanism!

If only politicians could see the harmony that can coexist between left and right the way you so eloquently put it. Hope that's not ai. 

Either way it would be a positive challenge for good if conservatives and liberals agreed to stop looking for and appealing to extremes.

MayCaesar

Three roommates - a physicist, an engineer, and a Christian - have a broken lightbulb in a bedroom.

Physicist says, "I can fix it!", walks into the room and closes the door. Two hours later, he comes out: "I wrote all the equations, I explored all points on the lightbulb... I cannot understand what is broken".

Engineer says, "I can fix it!", walks into the room and closes the door. Five hours later, he comes out: "I broke the lightbulb into tiny components, tinkered with them all I could, put them back together every possible way... It just won't turn on."

Christian says, "I can fix it!", walks into the room and closes the door. One day passes... another... On the morning of the 4th day he comes out, satisfied: "The lightbulb is working now!"
Physicist and engineer walk into the room and see the turned on lightbulb. "What? How did you do this?!"
Christian: "Oh, I just prayed to the Holy Spirit. The Spirit heeded my call and fixed the lightbulb."

Physicist and engineer, flabbergasted, examine the lightbulb. "Wow, he actually did fix it with a prayer. Hey, Christian, could you also pray to fix the freezer?"
Suddenly, the lightbulb flickers a few times. Then says: "No!"
Physicist: "Huh?!"
Lightbulb: "I just wanted to shut this fool up."

ZeusAres42

@Factfinder

I'm not going to waste my mental energy on troll that was previously banned. Check out his alt account @RickeyD (now banned)

Factfinder

ZeusAres42 said:

@Factfinder

I'm not going to waste my mental energy on troll that was previously banned. Check out his alt account @RickeyD (now banned)

Totally understand. But like I said, good choice either way. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; If you can't handle it...don't go. @ZeusAres42

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; If you can't handle it...don't go. @ZeusAres42

So you create accounts just to engage in hateful bitter entanglements? Not a good way to proselytize jesus's love ricky.

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ; There are no systematic inequalities but a failure to work, to study, to persevere...to strive...you advocate for lawlessness, laziness, DEI, reverse discrimination via Progressive - Regressive policies that are failing BEFORE your very eyes.

Meritocracy presupposes NOTHING but hard work, diligence, intelligence, and qualifying for a position in society appropriate for the talent and work and dedication given.

Progressivism advocates for laziness, ineptitude, Affirmative Action, DEI, which destroys a society that relies upon the most qualified and talented for sustainability.

America has no barriers but only those constructed by a defunct, Progressive educational system that morphs idiocy, laziness, entitlement, hate for America and hate for honor and dignity in a job well done.

Factfinder

@ZeusAres42

Cool graphics.

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@Factfinder ; If you can't handle it...don't go. @ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ; You are an enemy of my Lord...you have made your choice to perish in Hell...that's on you. We're not friends...we are spiritual enemies.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ;

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ;  Diversity corrupts lest the participants agree on Messiah.

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ;  Diversity corrupts lest the participants agree on Messiah.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ; 

ZeusAres42

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ; 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@ZeusAres42 ;  The Quran is a plagiarized work of a 7th-Century nomadic, demon-possessed, murdering, pedophile, thief, named Muhammad who stole from Torah to create the Quran in hopes of convincing the Jews and Christians in Media to follow his new religion. The Quran is a book of Satan, your father as Islam's Allah is Satan masquerading as an angel of light via the Arabic Moon god. You will see him in Hell subsequent Judgment (Revelation 20:10-15). 

 

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

@ZeusAres42 ;  The Quran is a plagiarized work of a 7th-Century nomadic, demon-possessed, murdering, pedophile, thief, named Muhammad who stole from Torah to create the Quran in hopes of convincing the Jews and Christians in Media to follow his new religion. The Quran is a book of Satan, your father as Islam's Allah is Satan masquerading as an angel of light via the Arabic Moon god. You will see him in Hell subsequent Judgment (Revelation 20:10-15). 

 

Christianity plagiarized the Egyptian god Horus. https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/religion.occult.new_age/Egypt/Parallels between Jesus and Horus an Egyptian God.pdf

MayCaesar

Modern people:






Rickey:

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MayCaesar ;   "Modern People" are failing...our Nation is dying because of you and the demonic ideology you espouse...Progressives...self-proclaimed "intellectuals" are horrible people, these are atheists - secular humanists, who murder babies, promote sexual perversion, inspire and tolerate crime and suffering due the "do-gooder" tolerant insanity...you are wicked people who do not belong in the United States...this forum is replete with servants of the devil

maxx

18 Ways the Bible has Changed throughout History | (historycollection.com)  let me get this straight. You refuse to believe your own religious history? You and others similar, are too narrow minded to accept the historical facts? You are not open-minded enough to realize such facts, therfore you refuse to even look at the links that show the proof. @RickeyHoltsclaw

RickeyHoltsclaw

@maxx ;  I believe in the sovereignty and omnipotence of my Lord, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit who Authored the Scriptures. I believe with all my heart that the words before me in the Canon of Scripture are the exact words, the exact message, that He desires I have so that I can know Him personally; love Him intimately; live with Him eternally. 

I am not concerned about what you or anyone else considers "changes" as the message, the theme, is immutable and consistent and Truth. You can obfuscate, you can deny, you can scoff, you can insult, but the eternal message of the Scriptures will not change; you are a sinner in need of an Intercessor; therefore, if you desire eternal life once your body of decaying flesh dies away, Jesus Christ is the only Way to find forgiveness of sin through His blood atonement provided you at Golgotha some 2000-years ago. If you deny Jesus, He will deny you and you will die the "second death" in Hell "without excuse."