Prolife protestors found guilty

Openminded

Argument Topic: It does seam a bit incongress that Ricky’s posts are put in and yours aren’t but the thing is that we can’t tell.. Are you sure that you didn’t mention anything about Trannies having abortion s because that would really rub him up the wrong way.:

@Barnardot

I´ve tried several times to post it. It was a response back to MichaelElpers beliefs that abortion is murder. I disguised the word with asterisks several times.  I do not understand. I did make an analogy that extreme views of pro-choice are hypocrisy at its highest level comparing that to the conservatives who seem to be okay with the deaths of living children due to gun violence. Could that be it? I´m confused.

Openminded

Argument Topic: ?

@MichaelElpers

Openminded

Argument Topic: Nah, murder is just unjust premeditated killing. There are psychopaths and serial killers that may not have specific malice/vicious intent towards there victims. It is still murder.

@MichaelElpers

Nah, murder is just unjust premeditated killing.  There are psychopaths and serial killers that may not have specific malice/vicious intent towards there victims.  It is still murder.

I agree, m*******s can be of many types. The ease at which you place a pregnant woman who seeks abortion in the m****r category and your absolutist view is frankly puzzling. I´m curious; using your definition, please tell me what type of m******r is a woman who chooses abortion? Also, please define the type of m******r the performing physician is? 

Factfinder

Openminded said:

@MichaelElpers

Nah, murder is just unjust premeditated killing.  There are psychopaths and serial killers that may not have specific malice/vicious intent towards there victims.  It is still murder.

I agree, m*******s can be of many types. The ease at which you place a pregnant woman who seeks abortion in the m****r category and your absolutist view is frankly puzzling. I´m curious; using your definition, please tell me what type of m******r is a woman who chooses abortion? Also, please define the type of m******r the performing physician is? 

Personally, I'd name systematic white collar murder.

Openminded

Argument Topic: Yes conservatives have a focus on abortion because over 600000 are aborted per year. There is no equivalent catastrophie, especially one considered legal for born children. If it was legal to kill or neglect born children youd see an equivalent focus.

@MichaelElpers

Yes, over 600K abortions are performed yearly. If you assume that abortion is M then you are correct there is no equivalent catastrophe.

Openminded

Argument Topic: If you are vigilant and understand there hidden agendas not sure why ypu posted articles about bills you had probably had not read nor knew anything about the other agendas.

@MichaelElpers

I try my best to research and post the most unbiased material I can find. This is no easy task as everything is biased. I use ChatGPT often as data gathering can be time consuming. I understand there are many hidden items in bills that are proposed. I posted my links to merely support my assertions.

Openminded

Argument Topic: By incentivising single motherhood im talking about providing certain tax breaks or providing money to single parent homes. Ive known people avoiding marriage because they got more government fundng/breaks remaining unmarries.

@MichaelElpers
By incentivising single motherhood im talking about providing certain tax breaks or providing money to single parent homes. Ive known people avoiding marriage because they got more government fundng/breaks remaining unmarries.

Of course there are those that abuse the system. We should be careful not to judge based on the worst cases.

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

Its not because I have an absolutionist view, its because it meets the definition of the word.  When we kill chickens for meat we are murdering chickens.  When you kill a fetus you are murdering a fetus which is objectively a human being.

Also who says we are ok with gun deaths of living children?  I dont know any conservative that wants to legalize that.
We may have disagreements about what sort of protection should be allowed and the importance of the second amendment but no one thinks they are ok.  What is your definition of an assault weapon?

Openminded

Argument Topic: I never said anything about an 11 week old being viable outside womb. I just responded to your comment saying it doesnt resemble a human.

@MichaelElpers

I never said anything about an 11 week old being viable outside womb.  I just responded to your comment saying it doesnt resemble a human.

In a post to someone else I described the miscarriage actually happened in the toilet, therefore the organism (sorry) did not resemble a baby. I believe my original post said it was 1-1/2¨ long and weighed.25 ounce. I asked ChatGPT now. 

At 11 weeks gestation, a fetus is typically about 1.6 to 2.2 inches (4 to 5.5 centimeters) long, and its weight is around 0.3 to 0.5 ounces (8 to 14 grams). Still in its early developmental stage of growth.

Openminded

Argument Topic: It doesnt seem like things turned out very well for your friend, so not sure how that backs your argument. Its certainly sad that happened.

@MichaelElpers

It doesnt seem like things turned out very well for your friend, so not sure how that backs your argument. Its certainly sad that happened.

I was explaining the plight of my friend in a more humanizing way to try and appeal to your humane side. Whether her life could have better had she chosen to bare the baby of her rapist we will never know. But who are we to judge? 

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

And yet it is still a human organism that looks like a small human organism.

A newborn is in an early stage of development that is small in stature and doesnt much look like an adult.  So where is the magical line where the size and resemblence make it worth your while.

Openminded

Argument Topic: I think ive told you before im all for responsibility for males. They are required for child support. I do empathize, just not to the point where i think killing an innocent human being is an option. Just like i empathize parents with difficult children, that doesnt mean the children can be abused or killed

@MichaelElpers

I think ive told you before im all for responsibility for males.  They are required for child support.  I do empathize, just not to the point where i think killing an innocent human being is an option.  Just like i empathize parents with difficult children, that doesnt mean the children can be abused or killed 

Yes you have. I guess my issue is the extreme position taken on abortion and (sorry) that men can be so staunchly pro-life. That´s why I revealed the story of my friend and the 11 week miscarriage of someone I know. To try to add a humanizing aspect to it. I get frustrated with extremism (and I know I have my extremist views also).

MayCaesar

MichaelElpers said:

@Openminded

And yet it is still a human organism that looks like a small human organism.

A newborn is in an early stage of development that is small in stature and doesnt much look like an adult.  So where is the magical line where the size and resemblence make it worth your while.

Let me ask you this. Which are you more comfortable doing: taking an egg from a chicken's nest, cooking and eating it - or grabbing the chicken, chopping off its head, putting it on a stove, grilling it and then eating it?

It is very basic animal instinct, to value less developed organisms less than more developed organisms. You do not think twice about how many bacteria you kill every day. Mushrooms or flowers also do not cause you to feel any particular way. Insects and trees might be a little more... relatable. Macroscopic animals such as cows, cats or dolphins certainly are hard to watch suffer. And then you have you and me, fully grown sentient adults. It is natural to have a hierarchical view on the value of these organisms, and it is also natural to value someone who has been a part of your life for a while more than someone who has not even grown any limbs yet.

I do not think that there is a magical line anywhere. Naturally, the more grown up the fetus is, the more relatable it is. There is also the whole biological drive for procreation and preservation of children that makes (in particular) pregnant women very protective of the fetus.

MichaelElpers

@MayCaesar

I dont disagree with your hierarchical for emotional value structure of the animal community.
In fact, I may even have a harder emotional time with my dog dying than even a human in my extended family due to emotional investment and relationship I have comparitively.
That doesnt mean my dog gets more rights than human beings ive never met.
I also have have a harder time watching a lion kill a squeling animal than a human dying more peacefully.

This psychology most certainly plays a role in our laws and determination of rights. Objectively, in creating laws/rights that promote equality among human beings, I cannot see how we can use an subjective value judgement without opening a giant can of worms.
In addition all human beings require care and protection to reach adulthood.  If we require that for a newborn, im not sure what standard wouldnt apply to the fetus.

MayCaesar

@MichaelElpers

But it is done all the time in the legal system. People are given privileges or depraved of rights based on various biological or psychological features. Children before a certain age are not allowed to drive, to consume alcohol, to serve in the military. Adults with certain mental conditions are not allowed to own guns, or drive, or sometimes step outside a mental asylum. People who have committed transgressions against the society may be even deprived of basic freedom of movement. Many immigrants are denied many of the rights that the citizens have, such as the right to be employed and receive income.

Equality before the law only means that two individuals are treated by the law the same given similarity in their conditions: if I steal $10,000 and another person of approximately my level of development steals $10,000, then the fact that I have a prettier face should not make my penalty smaller. It does not apply to any couple of beings with the human DNA, does it? A child who accidentally pressed a button at his father's office costing the investment company billions of dollars will be treated very differently from an employee who did the same.

MichaelElpers

@MayCaesar

They are denied as an acknoweldgement to cognitive abilities as a protection. None of them are depraved so much so you can kill them.

MayCaesar

@MichaelElpers

True, but, by the same token, none of them feed on the insides of an adult who has the full scope of rights the law provides.

MichaelElpers

@MayCaesar

Well they all have actually.  Seems like women should be able to give the death penalty to any toddler than for their crime.

Or we could just recognize that is a requirement of all human beings and just put the responsibility on the adult to avoid getting pregnant.  We put responsibility of every parent who has a child to take care of the child.

Openminded

Argument Topic: Also who says we are ok with gun deaths of living children? I dont know any conservative that wants to legalize that. We may have disagreements about what sort of protection should be allowed and the importance of the second amendment but no one thinks they are ok. What is your definition of an assault weapon?

@MichaelElpers

Also who says we are ok with gun deaths of living children?  I dont know any conservative that wants to legalize that.
We may have disagreements about what sort of protection should be allowed and the importance of the second amendment but no one thinks they are ok.  What is your definition of an assault weapon?

I did the same thing I accused you of by taking an absolutist stance.
Sorry, but ...
Just as no conservative thinks its okay to legalize gun deaths of children, no democrat thinks its okay to ¨m u r d e r¨ a child.

While a confirmed definition of assault weapon is also in contention, my understandint is an assault weapon is a firearm that rapidly fires a large number of rounds without needing to reload. Obviously a lot of killing can take place in a short amount of time. I believe in the use of assault weapons in the military but I am strongly opposed to the ease of accessibility of them n America -- especially since we´ve lost the lives of too many children. To me, their use for shooting sports, collectors, hunters, and individuals who choose them for personal defense can never justify the loss of a child´s life.

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

Your statement is false, pro choice people being ok with murder of the fetus is exactly what abortion is.

What do you consider a large number of rounds?  Pretty much all pistols are semi automatics that do not require reloading until the magazine is depleted.

MayCaesar

MichaelElpers said:

@MayCaesar

Well they all have actually.  Seems like women should be able to give the death penalty to any toddler than for their crime.

Or we could just recognize that is a requirement of all human beings and just put the responsibility on the adult to avoid getting pregnant.  We put responsibility of every parent who has a child to take care of the child.

I think there is quite a bit of difference between feeding on one's insides by staying inside their body like a parasite worm, and simply needing a bit of external feeding.

I do not disagree with your second paragraph. I am a bit proponent for taking responsibility for everything that happens to you in your life, even things outside your control. Responsibility does not imply governmental punishment, however.

Openminded

@MichaelElpers

Your statement is false, pro choice people being ok with murder of the fetus is exactly what abortion is.

You got me. I´m an proponent of murder. I believe in a woman´s right to murder her child.

What do you consider a large number of rounds?  Pretty much all pistols are semi automatics that do not require reloading until the magazine is depleted.

Debating with you is like trying to plant seeds in concrete.  I´m guessing that discussing weapons should not happen between us.

Until we debate again!

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

I guess i did get you.  Abortion is the murder and expulsion of the fetus.  Not sure how you can disagree with that.

Im confused by your second comment.  You said an assault weapon is a gun that can fire a number of rounds without reloading.
My comment wqs in direct relevance to that. What is a large number of rounds and all semi automatic weapons do this. One round per trigger pull.

Factfinder

MichaelElpers said:

@Openminded

I guess i did get you.  Abortion is the murder and expulsion of the fetus.  Not sure how you can disagree with that.

Im confused by your second comment.  You said an assault weapon is a gun that can fire a number of rounds without reloading.
My comment wqs in direct relevance to that. What is a large number of rounds and all semi automatic weapons do this. One round per trigger pull.

Doesn't matter how many rounds a weapon fires. The architects of the founding documents were concerned about the citizens rights to protect themselves from tyranny, whether from outside or internal forces. It was the tyrannical government of Britain that inspired the documents. Sports fishing and hunting were not the intended benefit of the second amendment.  Liberal schemes for incrementalism in order to reduce our right to bear arms is the wrong approach. It isn't protecting anyone and we all know it. That said the authors probably didn't imagine the weapons governments would have. Which begs the question: Liberals know their gun free zones are disastrous yet they continue to sacrifice children, why? They must not be convinced the military would support overreaching socialism.  

Barnardot

@MichaelElpers ;None of them are depraved so much so you can kill them.

Its your mistaken belief about calling abortion murder but the one thing is that you have to realize is that your thoughts and what you say are highly insulting and offensive.

MichaelElpers

@Barnardot

You may take it as insulting and offensive but it is true.  You are ending the life of an innovent human being, that is just a fact.

If you are offended by it than maybe that means you should rethink your position or perhaps at least come up with an explanation for yourself why the fetus can be treated like a finger nail.

Openminded

@Factfinder
Doesn't matter how many rounds a weapon fires. The architects of the founding documents were concerned about the citizens rights to protect themselves from tyranny, whether from outside or internal forces. It was the tyrannical government of Britain that inspired the documents. Sports fishing and hunting were not the intended benefit of the second amendment.  Liberal schemes for incrementalism in order to reduce our right to bear arms is the wrong approach. It isn't protecting anyone and we all know it. That said the authors probably didn't imagine the weapons governments would have. Which begs the question: Liberals know their gun free zones are disastrous yet they continue to sacrifice children, why? They must not be convinced the military would support overreaching socialism.  

Well the way many are talking, the trump supporters especially, get your weapons ready! A Civil War is coming! What you don´t get is that YOU are creating the war. Trump made you so GD suspicious of the government, the left, the immigrants, the politicians ... that ya´ll are creating your own war. Look at the insurrection. Who was involved in that? Trump supporters - angrily getting it on with each other. Angry mobsters. Why? Because your boy Trump told them to fight like hell and to stop the steal. Like dutiful soldiers, they complied. Your boy trump stoked anger, hate and suspicion of all government and the ¨Libs¨. Well welcome to Hitler you I****s.  If it wasn´t so GD scary it would be hysterical. And now ya´ll are ready for another Civil War. I can see ya´ĺl gathering your guns now. The thing is, you´ll be shooting each other up. And ya´ll will end up in prison just like the insurrectionists did because their Ringmaster, Trump, told them to fight for him. And now his foot soldiers are in prison. And you´ĺl all take each other down like rats scurrying down the gangplanks. It´s pitiful. What trump has done to this country is pitiful. Do you have idea how absolutely bizarre you sound talking about guns, civil war, the enemies, socialism, marxism? So git yer AR47s AK15s out! Now´s yer chance to play war and shoot ´em up!! pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop 

The liberals aren´t sacrificing children. Stop with the . You know full well that America has a gun problem. Nobody wants to take your guns away. It´s just another dog whistle and you subservient foot soldiers fell for. You all talk of civil war because ¨they´re coming for our guns and our freedoms!!¨. How pathetic. The Dems just want common sense restrictions on high-powered rifles. Period. Stop exaggerating. But hey, you all keep buying into the theory that we´re gonna have a civil war - that the government is evil and coming after your guns. Trump created that. Ya´ll fell in line like dutiful, non thinking, obedient citizens. Hitler would be so proud. I am so GD done with ignorance. 

And hey - keep contributing to Trump´s legal fees. He´s so lucky to have you pay for them. Buy his trading cards with him as superhero on them! Only $99 per card!  Keep watching his trash-filled rallies as he continues to stoke hate, anger and division. Why do you think he never debates anyone? You think it´s because he´s got it in the bag? hahaha NO. It´s because he´s got NOTHING to say except to spew on and on about how unfair he´s being treated. He can only spread hate. Poor little Donnie. And keep believing and listening to the NRA and the right-wing news media who spread propaganda, hate, fear, lies - all for their precious $$$$$. But you all fall in line dutifully and contribute to their profits. Afterall, for decades they´ve spewed out their anger and fear mongering to get your guns ready for the revolution. And you all fell for it as you contributed to their $Billions in profit. The NRA got quite wealthy. Fox News got quite wealthy. But hey, did you look into their finances now?

YOU trump supporters - YOU all are creating the tyranny. And we´re all watching, in disbelief and sadness, as America loses a chunk of humanity daily.  We´re a laughing stock now thanks to a sick narcissistic man who simply must be in power like Putin, like Jong-Un. You keep on adoring him though. The King will save you from the chaos and B_S that HE created. Disgusting. Am I angry? You bet. I´m done with trump supporters.

Openminded

Argument Topic: @Factfinder

@Factfinder

This was not directed at you - unless you support trump. This is directed to all Trump supporters.

Openminded

@Barnardot

I do believe @Michael is an arrogant man.

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

Please dont hijack the thread.  This is not a spiel to rant on your hate of trump or his supporters.  You keep talking about firearms but when i ask questions about them you refuse to answer.
"We just want bans on assault and high powered rifles"
What do those terms mean to you?  What are the stats of how many are killed by "assault rifles".

It is important you know how to answer these things because when the typically response is automatic weapons which are basically illegal in all cases or guns that fire many rounds without reloading you start encompassing most firearms.

It is important to be detailed and precise about what you are looking to ban otherwise how can it be "common sense ban"

Openminded

Argument Topic: Please don´t hijack the thread.

@MichaelElpers

I know my stats on firearms. I do not want to debate with you on this as I feel that there would be minimal room for beneficial exchange or growth.
I´m angry at trump for stoking so much hatred in America. I´m angrier at his supporters.
Trump supporters are hijacking America.

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

And here come the ad hominem attacks.  A little rich calling me arrogant after the rant you went on about trump supporters which is nearly half the country.

I believe you think I am unempathetic due to prolife stance that prevents women from making a "choice" that is the intentional killing of a human being and calling that out as a harsh truth.  I think you only see it that way because you lack so much empathy towards the fetus you believe it can be killed by the mother for any reason (dont take that as all reasons are pedestrian). 

I am not unempathetic towards the hardships of pregnancy, which is why I am pro birth control, pro child support, and would encourage any other measure that eases or prevents the pregancy from occuring.
My empathy towards those hardships just doesnt extend to a right to intentionally kill your innocent offspring.  Just like hardships of being a parent to toddlers and newborns dont extend to that right.

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

I asked very basic questions towards your assertions.
You stated you want common sense gun reform on assault weapons and high powered rifles.

I want to know why those specific weapons?  And what weapons precisely you are banning with those terms.

I not sure how that in any way is not being benevolent towards a beneficial exchange.  I am requesting clarity on your opinion rather than assuming it.

RickeyHoltsclaw

@MichaelElpers ; As humanity nears the Day of the Lord and the Tribulation Era approaches with rapidity; this, as all things eschatological are manifesting via proper protocol in Israel; as the coming nuclear conflict between Israel v. Russia-China-Iran/Islam, the destruction of the superpower in the West, the United States, through immorality and demonic compromise, as all of these eschatological mandates are poised for Messiah's 2nd-Advent and the Millennial Kingdom, Jesus tells the faithful in Him that they will suffer ever increasing tribulation-hatred-prejudice-alienation-suffering-torture-death...these who fight for the life of the unborn through peaceful demonstrations overwhelmingly possess an abiding faith in Jesus as Messiah; therefore, what the World is doing to them via lawfare is to be expected and understood as Satan is temporarily the god of this World (2 Corinthians 4:4) and we know his devices.

Openminded

@MichaelElpers

If you knew anything of history, you´d know that polls mean nothing at this point.
You would know also how much Hitler was loved.
You would also know what Hitler´s loyal supporters supported - the holocaust.
And you would know that Hitler was not loved anymore.

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

Not sure why your hitler comment is applicable to me.  I never said anything about polls or displayed any sort of comment or ignorance on Nazis or hitler.

Openminded

@MichaelElpers

You said Trump was popular.
So was Hitler.
Then the holocaust happened.
And then he wasn´t.

This site is full of the crazies, the rigid, the narrow minded, the ugly. I´m trying my hardest to get kicked off this site. I´ll join another decent one.

This one is full of brainwashed cult followers.

RickeyHoltsclaw

Openminded said:

@MichaelElpers

You said Trump was popular.
So was Hitler.
Then the holocaust happened.
And then he wasn´t.

This site is full of the crazies, the rigid, the narrow minded, the ugly. I´m trying my hardest to get kicked off this site. I´ll join another decent one.

This one is full of brainwashed cult followers.

@Openminded ;  Trump has no comparative ideological positions likened to those of Hitler...but your political party does? Why?

Factfinder

RickeyHoltsclaw said:

Openminded said:

@MichaelElpers

You said Trump was popular.
So was Hitler.
Then the holocaust happened.
And then he wasn´t.

This site is full of the crazies, the rigid, the narrow minded, the ugly. I´m trying my hardest to get kicked off this site. I´ll join another decent one.

This one is full of brainwashed cult followers.

@Openminded ;  Trump has no comparative ideological positions likened to those of Hitler...but your political party does? Why?

Well to be honest trump and hitler both claim christianity. Only I think in trumps case he might just be saying that to reach the gullible. But hitler was for sure. 

RickeyHoltsclaw

@Factfinder ;  Actually, if one studies as opposed to fabricating lies in order to justify their advocacy for the mur-der of babies in the womb and sexual perversion via LGBTQ as per the Democrat Party, they will find that Hitler was hat-ed Christianity and Judaism...Hitler was more closely aligned with the atheist and Satanist...Hitler did use Christianity, actually Catholicism, to his advantage concerning the masses.

If Donald Trump's policies protecting the Christian faith and faith of others is for his benefit, that's okay with me...President Trump has done much to protect the Christian faith and the Church from the ha-te of the Left-Progressive-Democrat. God Bless Donald Trump and his beautiful family.

MichaelElpers

@Openminded

I said nearly half of the country supports him. Nearly half of the country supports biden as well.  Being somewhat popular is applicable to any democratically elected leader.  Not sure how you turned that into me needing to be educated on hitler.

MayCaesar

Openminded said:

@MichaelElpers

You said Trump was popular.
So was Hitler.
Then the holocaust happened.
And then he wasn´t.

This site is full of the crazies, the rigid, the narrow minded, the ugly. I´m trying my hardest to get kicked off this site. I´ll join another decent one.

This one is full of brainwashed cult followers.

As a side observer, I would say that your own behavior has plenty of cult-like elements. Whenever someone disagrees with you on Trump, or on genders, or on anything that is widely considered a sensitive issue, you immediately attribute horrible qualities to the person - much like Rickey does to everyone who does not follow his insane version of Christianity. It is a good idea, before making such sweeping accusations of large numbers of people, to make sure that the accusations do not apply to you as well.

There are some good folks on this website. Among those I have had great conversations with are @ZeusAres42, @MichaelElpers and @Factfinder: I have had plenty of disagreements with each of them, and even fights with some - but I have always respected their ability to put their egos and emotions aside and wrestle with the actual arguments their opponents make. Unfortunately, many of the great debaters of the past left this website and the quality of the average conversation has dropped considerably over the past few years, but there are still good discussions to be had here.

I do not think that calling people names is very productive, and it certainly does not make many people want to discuss much with you. You accused me of things like misogyny or Trump worship (ha-h) in the past based on very scarce evidence - would you be surprised if I did not want to talk to you about anything? I do not hold such grudges and am always happy to give anyone another chance, unless they have crossed some very hard lines - but many people have far wider boundaries and will be done with you after a couple of accusations like this.

RickeyHoltsclaw

MayCaesar said:

Openminded said:

@MichaelElpers

You said Trump was popular.
So was Hitler.
Then the holocaust happened.
And then he wasn´t.

This site is full of the crazies, the rigid, the narrow minded, the ugly. I´m trying my hardest to get kicked off this site. I´ll join another decent one.

This one is full of brainwashed cult followers.

As a side observer, I would say that your own behavior has plenty of cult-like elements. Whenever someone disagrees with you on Trump, or on genders, or on anything that is widely considered a sensitive issue, you immediately attribute horrible qualities to the person - much like Rickey does to everyone who does not follow his insane version of Christianity. It is a good idea, before making such sweeping accusations of large numbers of people, to make sure that the accusations do not apply to you as well.

There are some good folks on this website. Among those I have had great conversations with are @ZeusAres42, @MichaelElpers and @Factfinder: I have had plenty of disagreements with each of them, and even fights with some - but I have always respected their ability to put their egos and emotions aside and wrestle with the actual arguments their opponents make. Unfortunately, many of the great debaters of the past left this website and the quality of the average conversation has dropped considerably over the past few years, but there are still good discussions to be had here.

I do not think that calling people names is very productive, and it certainly does not make many people want to discuss much with you. You accused me of things like misogyny or Trump worship (ha-h) in the past based on very scarce evidence - would you be surprised if I did not want to talk to you about anything? I do not hold such grudges and am always happy to give anyone another chance, unless they have crossed some very hard lines - but many people have far wider boundaries and will be done with you after a couple of accusations like this.

@MayCaesar @Factfinder ; @ZeusAres42 ; Hello May...My "version" of Christianity it that which the Holy Spirit teaches within the Canon of Scripture...I would enjoy debating you on the particulars of Christianity and where you feel that "my version" is "insane." Are you willing to take the challenge? Please, let me know yes or no? You're free to provide the initiating premise...please include my @rickeyholtsclaw so that I know you have commented and provided a relevant premise. Thanks.

Barnardot

@MichaelElpers ;I believe you think I am unempathetic

Your only kidding your self because the fact is you are unempathetic. You have absolutely no consideration or compassion at all for other people by falsely labelling some women as baby-killers.

MichaelElpers

@Barnardot

That is literally the point of abortion. To kill and remove the baby.

Barnardot

@MichaelElpers ;That is literally the point of abortion. To kill and remove the baby.

And the point that I'm pointing out is that that the view you have is totally distorted and completely wrong in fact and in law. It is a fact that aborting a fetus at 12 weeks is not killing any thing and I would challenge you to give one example of some one who has ever been convicted of murder for having a legal abortion or other wise of a fetus less than 12 weeks. hasn't happened has it? So let's get reasonable about this. Mouthing off about an abortion being killing is extreme in the extreme and every descent person in society finds such a view as being offensive and insensitive.

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@MichaelElpers ;I believe you think I am unempathetic

Your only kidding your self because the fact is you are unempathetic. You have absolutely no consideration or compassion at all for other people by falsely labelling some women as baby-killers.

Bernie,  you are advocating for the killing of innocent human lives and you say @MichaelElpers is 'unempathetic'.  Are you seriously missing the irony and hypocrisy of that claim?  Abortion kills innocent human lives and you are 'unempathetic' to their deaths.

just_sayin

Barnardot said:

@MichaelElpers ;That is literally the point of abortion. To kill and remove the baby.

And the point that I'm pointing out is that that the view you have is totally distorted and completely wrong in fact and in law. It is a fact that aborting a fetus at 12 weeks is not killing any thing and I would challenge you to give one example of some one who has ever been convicted of murder for having a legal abortion or other wise of a fetus less than 12 weeks. hasn't happened has it? So let's get reasonable about this. Mouthing off about an abortion being killing is extreme in the extreme and every descent person in society finds such a view as being offensive and insensitive.

Bernie, human life begins at conception.  So your statement that it 'is not killing any thing' is false. For evidence to support this claim see:

https://debateisland.com/discussion/comment/173850/#Comment_173850

Some seek to dehumanize the victims of abortion because it eases their consciences.  

What is legal is not always moral.  Killing an innocent unborn child may be legal in some places.  That does not mean that it is moral.  

MichaelElpers

@Barnardot

No one is charged when they kill chickens either.  The fact is they are still killing chickens.

It is pretty incredible to me the lengths you are going to avoid a simple biological truth that the fetus is an alive human being and abortion's objective is to kill it.

Now you may think the fetus is so underdeveloped their is no moral qualms with killing it but that does not make my claim untrue.

Barnardot

@MichaelElpers ;a simple biological truth that the fetus is an alive human being and abortion's objective is to kill it.

And as you very well know it is not a truth. It is a made up peace of crap that you decide to believe.

I and every one else here can and do point out the fact that the sky is blue but you choose to believe its red. Thats your problem.

All I'm saying is that your off the planet and proven wrong view is disgusting and offensive. Doesn't bother me because your the one who has to deal with it.