Compared to what? The other non-designed universe you have in your pocket?

Your assumptions about design are absolutely baseless and coating them in sneering arrogance doesn't help.

Sure, I see him in the leukemia ward all the time. He's a regular there.

I wonder why you're forgetting to mention that if the union is before marriage, and the woman is the daughter of a priest, your religion orders she be burned to death at the stake. Any particular reason why you didn't mention that?

No, that's simply your opinion and it is objectively untrue. Quantum physics for example is beset by randomness. Even the larger universe contains many examples of chaos (i.e. not true randomness, but things which nevertheless cannot be measured or predicted by an observer). Another crucial problem with your belief is that you have no comparative model. You can't show an example of how a non-designed universe would look and hence demonstrate that there is a difference.

Because you're objectively wrong. The fact that you are objectively wrong can be demonstrated through experiment. For example, the order in which radioactive particles decay is completely random. It cannot be predicted, even in theory, and hence it follows no model of design. The fact that you want people to accept something which so clearly is objectively wrong, and believe the fault lies with them for not doing so, is about as arrogant and delusional as it gets.

Which is part of the Bible, correct?

Actually from your childish responses and subjective thoughts, you have proven I am right and you are wrong. All that I have said are absolute objective universal truths. You deny the truth as usual just like any pagan catholic. Once more, you have lost this debate. You are not a true follower. The "trinity" isn't in the Bible, so what you've said about the Godhead not being correct is invalidated. As for homosexuality being a crime and a sin, it is exactly as it is. It brings AIDs/HIV and it is indeed unnatural. "And so God gave them to their unnatural ways, men with men, even the women with women and that to an error."

Your hubris has been displayed all over, denying the facts, denying the truth and especially denying the Bible. God will punish you and you will be thrown in Hell for your hypocrisy, lies, slander and so called "Faithfulness" in Christ when you've proven guilty when I said that most roman catholics claim to be Christian and yet deny everything that God and Christ has taught. You do realize Jesus prayed to the Father many times? Yeah so they aren't the same being! They are for the same purpose with shared power and authority. By denying the Godhead is the actual nature of God Himself, you are denying John and James as well as all the Twelve Apostles. It's not a surprise because Romans did in fact persecute Christians because they "accepted the faith". Jesus did say Romans would never believe and those words RANG TRUE AND STILL CAME TRUE. YOU ARE JUST A LIVING EXAMPLE OF A FALSE BELIEVER. While I HAVE PROVEN YOU WRONG and therefore, I AM A TRUE BELIEVER BECAUSE I PROVE IT WITH MY ACTIONS RATHER THAN JUST MY WORDS!

Anymore subjective replies from you are automatically debunked. The Vatican will fall and the pope has zero authority. Homosexuality is still a sin and a crime. By supporting it, you are a lukewarm and a pedophile.

True love and marriage is only between a real man and a real woman. So long roman catholic pagan of Babylon. Wait until His Second Coming because yea, I say unto you, He is Coming and before He does, you catholics will fall to the Anti Christ which comes from the east. 

Every time an ignorant snowflake and a false catholic, false believer claims I am wrong, it will backfire towards themselves because it has been proven once again, they do not have the truth within themselves. They love the things of this world and they like to deny everything of Christ and everything of God. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed the true church restored upon this earth by the Prophet Joseph Smith. I read your little denial statement of the Restoration. it's again, typical of you catholics to do that. Btw, the Reformation started by Martin Luther lasted 500 years from 1517 A.D. That goes up until 2017 which was probably the year Protestantism began to decline and some protestants betrayed Martin Luther's teachings in order to "regain favour" with false Catholics of the false roman church. Haha, the Reformation still lasted 500 years from 1517 A.D, which confirms the Restoration did indeed occur in the 1820s. History and your denial of history only confirms you are a false believer. We believe in Jesus Christ and He is our Savior, He is the Redeemer of the World. Denying that statement just shows how much you DON'T believe you in the Savior nor do you listen to the true followers of Him which shows you are the hypocrite and the of the world. You, "proudtobecatholic" have proven to be prideful, full of hubris, greed, lust and you are also full oy gluttony and sloth. There is no salvation within the false roman church and that is an absolute universal objective truth. By your denials, you have proven to be a typical offended snowflake. By my calculations, you are as weak as you are a debater. You have lost and you are no child of God because all you do is walk in darkness. YOU KNOW NOT WHERE YOU GO BECAUSE YOU WOULD RATHER CHOOSE DARKNESS OVER LIGHT! My testimony in Jesus Christ as my Lord & Savior remains unbroken because as Jesus said, "If a man builds his faith upon His rock, no opposition nor hell can destroy it."

My faith is built upon the rock of Jesus Christ. My resistance to the false teachings of the abominable roman church continues and I will testify, the angels speak through me. Especially Raguel, who wants nothing more than to smite unjustly liars such as yourself. 

Do you not know the unrighteous cannot enter thy Kingdom of God? For homosexuals, adulterers, idolaters, murders, pedophiles etc will never know it. 

Oh yes, you roman catholics believe you are SO RIGHTEOUS and YET, YOU PROVE OTHERWISE WITH YOUR ACTIONS JUST AS JESUS PREDICTED! While I testify, the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have proven to be faithful, loving, merciful and Christ-like, MORE CHRIST LIKE THAN YOU EVER WILL BE. That is how and why you have lost this argument in an absolute manner. Continue up the hill and you will be shot down by more biblical truths. The trinity doctrine is unbiblical. 

I have not seen you once accept the Lord & Savior and instead, I have seen you misjudge, assume, spewing nonsense and also slandering about me here. I will say it one last time, you have tripped over your own words of lies and deceit, you have proven yourself wrong and proven me right. You deny the pope ever said anything contradictory. That is what makes you full of hubris and pride. You are TOO PROUD to admit you are wrong when you ARE WRONG.  Roman Catholicism is wokist, the false counterfeit religion of paganism while it's "founders" and "leaders" assume it's the original ministry that Jesus put upon this earth when the Roman catholic church didn't exist until the 3rd to 5th Centuries which is historically accurate in an absolute universal manner. Anymore replies from the three trolls of the devil will mean I have won. I am not surprised if you three deny it but you three do not have the love of Christ nor the Father within you.

"For if the world hates you, know it hated me first." - Jesus Christ to His disciples, Apostles and followers

Just as I expected, "anti mormon" comments and full denial of the Bible from the ignorant Atheist, the pedophilic Prideful Hubristic Catholic and the not-so-different Protestant; 21CenturyIconoclast. Do I look like I worship Mormon to you? If you assume yes, I am not surprised, however, we do indeed worship God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Ghost instead of a man dressed in fancy clothes and wearing a tiara. We don't worship Mormon nor any of the ancient prophets. We acknowledge their teachings that are primarily from Jesus Christ. Elders and Deacons were indeed mentioned by the Apostle Paul. Roman Catholics deny this. Pathetic if you ask me because Paul never spoke of popes and cardinals. No other church has Elders and Deacons. Jesus was humble and meek compared to all the popes of the anti christ. As I know that the Bible had books removed by false catholics, I know the roman church is the false church upon this earth, full of lies and centuries of blood, death and oppression had been put upon the common people. Deny this historical event ever occurred and you'll be seen as a Marxist sympathizer as well as a holocaust denier. 

God has won for me in this debate. You three are denounced from His presence and uh....praying to Mary and the Saints will not help you, "Mr.Catholic Pride" aka ProudetobeCatholic. So long hypocritical false believers who choose what is evil over what is good. You are exactly what you are. As a humble servant of Christ, I shall now walk away just as Jesus did when people began assaulting Him xD. You are all labelled as truthphobic, Christophobic and heterophobic. My words are objectively factual, absolute and universally correct. Even if you don't reply, which you most likely will because you get triggered easily by the truth, you will still have lost. I DENOUNCE ROMAN CATHOLICISM AS TRUE CHRISTIANITY, I DENOUNCE ATHESM BECAUSE IT HAS ALREADY PROVEN TO BE A FALLACY, I DENNOUNCE ALL FORMS OF TRINITARIAN PAGANISM BEING FASELY PERCEIVED AS CHRISTIANITY! MY TESTIMONY IN MY LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST REMAINS UNBROKEN! 

God prevails! 

IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, AMEN!!!

Cat said:

@MayCaesar

I'm sorry you have been too blind to see the order and design in all chemistry. God is not someone you see on old books, his presence is seen in our lives, his trace is seen in creation, and every living thing is a testimony of God. 

First of all, I do not know where you got the idea that the union between a man and a woman was frowned upon in Christianity. It is a blessed thing when done after marriage. 

Secondly, this debate is on whether Sola Fide is biblical, if you wish to discuss the existence of God, please do so in another thread. What do you think? is Sola Fide biblical or not? Your input would be appreciated. 

Dr_Batman, who has to wear, shhhhh, "secret underwear" to be able to follow the Carnival Barker "Joseph Smith’s" doctrine of the Satanic Book of Mormon that was REWRITTEN from other Bibles,

YOUR MORON QUOTE, DAMN IT, I SLIPPED ON MY FREUDIAN, EXCUSE ME, I MEAN MORMON QUOTE: "I sense lots of fear from you and your insults. You are taken over by a demon and so has Proudtobecatholic. Both of you have been lectured and silenced by the truth and only by the truth. .”

Uh, no we have not been lectured and silenced by any MORONIC faiths dissertation yet, and that is because YOU FEAR to create a thread on your MORONIC faith like I said for you to do, but are hiding from it like a SCARED little boy!  Why?

https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/160687/#Comment_160687

Listen, if you are that SCARED to defend your MORONIC faith in creating a thread on it, then is there another Mormon that you know that could do it for you since you would probably SCREW IT UP anyway and make a MORONIC fool of youself? Yes? Surely you know another MORON that could take your place because you are too nervous to defend your laughable Saturday Night Live Comedy Show of the MORMON faith to begin with!

IS THERE ANY OTHER MORMON THAT COULD TAKE OVER FOR "DR_BATMAN" IN CREATING A THREAD ON JOSEPH SMITH’S MORMONISM, BECAUSE HE IS TO SCARED TO DO IT HIMSELF, WILL BE …?

You're using a logical fallacy called circular reasoning, which is when you qualify a baseless conclusion with the same baseless conclusion (i.e. the world must be flat because otherwise it wouldn't be flat).

No, it is not circular reasoning for me to claim that if there is a creation there must be a creator. It is not like claiming the Earth is flat or otherwise it wouldn’t be flat, for that is an argument of two opposites. I simply said: creation=Creator and that is a perfectly rational conclusion. If I see something here on earth that man has made, I automatically know someone created it, even if I don’t know who. In the same way, when I look at the whole of creation, I automatically know someone created it. There is a huge difference between believing in a flat Earth and the Creator of an organized detailed world.

You're using a logical fallacy common among religious fanatics which is the appeal to complexity. What you're not taking into consideration is that complexity is a natural by-product of time. You're viewing reality as a snapshot rather than a 14 billion year video.

I do agree that the complexity argument is a common argument among creationists, and that is because even St. Paul used it in Hebrews 3:4 and Romans 1:20. It is not a new argument in anyway, but that doesn’t mean it is a fallacy. Take into consideration irreducible complexity. Even Charles Darwin himself admitted that, “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Evolution is a step-by-step process, with slight changes building upon previous slight changes that build upon even more previous slight changes. There are indeed many cases of irreducible complexity, where the theory of evolution could by no means bring about the things we see today. The human foot and the fossil record, which even Stephen J. Gould, a prominent evolutionist, admits “The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for the gradualistic accounts of evolution.” There are many unexplainable aspects of evolution that support the Creationist view. Irreducible complexity, common design, over-design, the detailed beauty in the things around us that suggest design, a common moral code, and much more. So, to me, it is a lot more logical to believe in a Creator than to believe everything just happened. Creation=Creator.

Dr Batman,

Actually from your childish responses and subjective thoughts, you have proven I am right and you are wrong

That makes no sense at all. I have demonstrated facts clarifying your misunderstandings of what Catholicism truly teaches and this is your best retort?

All that I have said are absolute objective universal truths. You deny the truth as usual just like any pagan catholic. Once more, you have lost this debate. You are not a true follower.

Universal truths? I have not seen you present one universal truth, but rather you info dumped a bunch of lies about the Catholic Church. Why don’t you study something before you try and expose it? I am glad @21CenturyIconoclast at least knows what he is coming against. He can argue against what Christianity and the Catholic Church actually teach in most cases, and actually uses the Bible, even if it is his misconstrued idea of what the passages mean. At least he doesn’t straw-man nearly as much as you have done. You don’t have a shred of honesty in you if you start trying to expose something you have obviously never even studied. I assume that is why you ignored my rebuttals to every point you made against Catholicism. Maybe study it and then put together a coherent argument against it, yes? And I have lost the debate? People like you are so frustrating. You make an argument and then run away by throwing up defenses like, ‘you have lost this debate’, or ‘anymore subjective replies from you are automatically debunked’. And stuff like that. Are you afraid of having Mormonism proven wrong? Is that why you are so quick to try and end the debate while dodging most of the points I made? I am totally fine with debating what I believe and if you believe Catholicism is false, there is nothing I enjoy more than discussing and defending my beliefs. It is one of the most enjoyable things for me to do. So let’s not put up shields so no one can attack our faith, instead, let’s honestly talk it over. Unless you are too afraid to have your religion challenged.

The "trinity" isn't in the Bible, so what you've said about the Godhead not being correct is invalidated.

‘The Trinity isn’t in the Bible’. Really? Is there cheese in macaroni and cheese? Let me explain this as concisely as I can.

The Old Testament clearly states that there is only one God. Isaiah 44;6 states- “The LORD is Israel’s king and defender. He is the LORD of Armies. This is what the LORD says: I am the FIRST AND THE LAST,and there is NO GOD EXCEPT ME.” Deuteronomy 4:35 states: “Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightiest know that the LORD he is GOD; THERE IS NONE ELSE BESIDE HIM.” And finally, Isaiah 46:9- “Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.” So we can confidently assert that there is only one God, not three. That alone should be enough to show you that if you hold to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all being Gods, that they obviously have to be one God. Explain to me how you get around these verses that clearly show God is one. You would have to change the Bible to get around the simple fact. There is only one God. There will be no other God in the future nor has there been in the past. Not of other galaxies, dimensions, or anything else. He says no God other than me. Not, no God in this dimension or universe other than me.

And on another point, don’t come telling me, “The trinity isn’t in the Bible, so what you’ve said about the Godhead not being correct is invalidated” when you have not even provided proof that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate gods. You have presented zero evidence for your side thus far so I do hope you will provide something that justifies your case in the near future. Debates aren’t for making claims, they are for substantiating those claims with logic, reason, and factual information.

As for homosexuality being a crime and a sin, it is exactly as it is. It brings AIDs/HIV and it is indeed unnatural. "And so God gave them to their unnatural ways, men with men, even the women with women and that to an error."

All you showed here is that homosexuality is a sin. Do you not what a sin is? It is a crime against God. When Pope Francis said homosexuality is a sin, not a crime, he was saying it is not a crime in the context of the state and earthly powers, but he reaffirmed that it is still a sin, just like lying, cheating, stealing, etc. You seem to not understand the difference between a ‘crime’ and a ‘sin’. Once more, a sin is a crime against God, whereas a crime is something that is against the law as set forth by the governing authorities on earth. If, when you say crime, you mean crime against God, I nor Pope Francis would argue with that. If you mean a crime against the law though, then I would wholeheartedly disagree with you. In this statement you merely displayed sin and the consequence of the sin.

I have paraphrase and put verses into my own words from the Bible which means I do follow the Bible instead. Just from knowing what you've written down, you do not have the knowledge of the Bible nor do you accept it. Therefore, you are not of the true church and you are no true believer. The roman church is the false church upon this earth and never was the original that Jesus instituted. You have been debunked and you will continue to be debunked. I have spoken absolute objective universal truths.

I do not know what you are trying to say by that first sentence. Are you saying that you paraphrase and put verses into you own words from the Bible? Well that’s not good! Don’t do that, instead actually quote Scriptures. That is a good safeguard to keep from messing up, . Quote the Scripture and provide a reference. It might take a bit longer, but it is well worth it and it helps both of us out.

And once again, you are putting forth an accusation without substantiating it. What part of what I wrote down demonstrates that I do not know the Bible or accept it? I can assure you I do know the Bible, as I have been studying it from the time I knew how to read. If you are going to come against the Catholic Church and tell me I am not a ‘true believer’, provide me with evidence. Stop generalizing and give me your reasons, backed up by facts and what the Catholic Church actually teaches, not your opinions about what you think they teach. You have debunked nothing, for you have skipped over most of my arguments I made.

Your hubris has been displayed all over, denying the facts, denying the truth and especially denying the Bible. God will punish you and you will be thrown in Hell for your hypocrisy, lies, slander and so called "Faithfulness" in Christ when you've proven guilty when I said that most roman catholics claim to be Christian and yet deny everything that God and Christ has taught.

Yet another example of your hasty generalization. You have provided no quotes from what I’ve said, nor have you mentioned my arguments, therefore you have no grounds to state that “God will punish you and you will be thrown in Hell for you hypocrisy, lies, slander, and so called “Faithfulness” in Christ”. I have not denied anything that God or Christ have taught and you have failed to provide examples of when you believe I did. I have nothing to work with here because you have presented no evidence to support your claims.

You do realize Jesus prayed to the Father many times? Yeah so they aren't the same being! They are for the same purpose with shared power and authority. By denying the Godhead is the actual nature of God Himself, you are denying John and James as well as all the Twelve Apostles.

Yes, obviously Jesus prayed to the Father many times. Anybody who has read Christ’s passion knows that. You are missing the fact that Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity, became a man. He was 100% man and 100% God. He is separate from the Father and the Spirit while still remaining the same God. To use the example St. Patrick used with the three leafed clover; when the pagans couldn’t understand the Trinity he stooped down, grabbed a three-leafed clover and told them, “If you can believe that this clover has three ‘leaves’ all connected to the same stem, why can you not believe the Trinity?” He converted hundreds with this example and even has his own holiday now, St. Patrick’s Day. Jesus became a man, humbled Himself, emptied Himself of His glory, and put Himself in submission to the Father. Philippians 2:6-11 states, “Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross!” Jesus emptied Himself of the glory of His Godhood when He became a man, but He did not cease to be God. Rather, He put Himself in submission to the Father. Remember they are three distinct persons, but all make up what we know as God. Therefore, they can communicate with one another while still maintaining the fact that they are God. In Genesis 19:24, it states: “Then YHWH rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH out of heaven.” Here we see Yahweh raining down fire from Yahweh in heaven. They are the same God, YHWH, but two distinct persons of the Trinity are shown in this case; the Father and the Son. And there are other such cases in the Scriptures where the Trinity, or certain persons of it, are clearly shown. There is no shared power, for they are one being: God.

It's not a surprise because Romans did in fact persecute Christians because they "accepted the faith". Jesus did say Romans would never believe and those words RANG TRUE AND STILL CAME TRUE. YOU ARE JUST A LIVING EXAMPLE OF A FALSE BELIEVER. While I HAVE PROVEN YOU WRONG and therefore, I AM A TRUE BELIEVER BECAUSE I PROVE IT WITH MY ACTIONS RATHER THAN JUST MY WORDS!

Actually, it was only certain members within the Catholic Church who persecuted the other Christians and the other Christians were fighting against them as well. Ever heard of the religious wars? But once again, I would spend hours talking about the history of the church, the falsified information and the true information, in fact people write whole books about this stuff, but give me a specific time period, like the second crusade or anything else, and I will gladly discuss it with you. So far, all I have seen is a lot of showboating and hand-waving with no evidence presented for any of your arguments other than that Jesus prayed to the Father. And a couple of points on your erroneous quote about Jesus saying the Romans would never believe. 1. St. Paul was a Roman. He was born a Roman citizen in fact (Acts 22:8- “But Paul replied, “I was BORN a Roman citizen”.”) Are you sure you want to claim that St. Paul was not a believer? That is dangerous territory. 2. You will not find one place in Scripture that says Romans will never believe, except maybe in your book of Mormon or something like that. 3. Most Roman Catholics are not citizens of Rome, therefore they are not Romans. Your claim falls flat when you say Catholics are not Christians because Jesus supposedly ‘said’ Romans will never believe. I am not a Roman, you see.

And how do you know my actions? By what authority do you claim that you are a true believer because you prove it by your actions and I don’t? That makes no sense, speaking of the fact that you and I have never even met before. Are you all-knowing? Once again, you spew out lies and self-condemning statements as if they are good forms of argumentation.

Anymore subjective replies from you are automatically debunked. The Vatican will fall and the pope has zero authority. Homosexuality is still a sin and a crime. By supporting it, you are a lukewarm and a pedophile. True love and marriage is only between a real man and a real woman. So long roman catholic pagan of Babylon. Wait until His Second Coming because yea, I say unto you, He is Coming and before He does, you catholics will fall to the Anti Christ which comes from the east.

Really? You do realize that by you claiming my replies are debunked, that does not make them debunked, right? Stop being childish and actually approach the arguments being discussed instead of running from them while throwing out insults like calling me lukewarm and a pedophile. I do not support homosexuality and I believe it is a sin. However, we are to show love to homosexuals and do our very best to win them to Christ, not kill them or whatever other punishment you have in mind for them. I nor the Catholic Church supports homosexuality and let me give you a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic church paragraph 2357. “Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN THEY BE APPROVED.” How much clearer could I make it for you?

And I am going to ignore your blatant anti-catholicism and quote the same verse you did. “For if the world hates you, know it hated me first.”

Catholicism is not Biblical: Source: https://thesetapartwalk.com/catholicism-is-not-biblical-christianity/

Is this your way of saying you know nothing about Catholicism and therefore have to post links to other’s web pages instead? How about I give you a few links to why Mormonism is unbiblical and a cult?

Trivializing the Unbiblical Core of Mormonism – Mormonism Research Ministry (mrm.org)

Why Christianity Is True but Mormonism Is Not: A Dozen Reasons | Mormons in Transition (irr.org)

Is Mormonism a cult? Yes, it is. The Latter Day Saints are not Christian (carm.org)

Why I Left The Mormon Church And Why It's A Cult (peacefuldumpling.com)

In fact, maybe you oughtta just check out this site that has been researching and disproving Mormonism for years and years from both scientific and historical standpoints. Mormonism Research Ministry – Challenging the claims of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints since 1979 (mrm.org)

Every time an ignorant snowflake and a false catholic, false believer claims I am wrong, it will backfire towards themselves because it has been proven once again, they do not have the truth within themselves. They love the things of this world and they like to deny everything of Christ and everything of God.

False again. You know what? I am going to skip your unfounded insults and move on to the few real arguments you provided.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed the true church restored upon this earth by the Prophet Joseph Smith. I read your little denial statement of the Restoration. it's again, typical of you catholics to do that. Btw, the Reformation started by Martin Luther lasted 500 years from 1517 A.D. That goes up until 2017 which was probably the year Protestantism began to decline and some protestants betrayed Martin Luther's teachings in order to "regain favour" with false Catholics of the false roman church. Haha, the Reformation still lasted 500 years from 1517 A.D, which confirms the Restoration did indeed occur in the 1820s. History and your denial of history only confirms you are a false believer.

You are going all over the place with this statement. What does the Reformation have to do with the supposed ‘restoration’ of the church through the false prophet Joseph Smith? Please clarify this point so I can address whatever you are trying to say. Thanks.

We believe in Jesus Christ and He is our Savior, He is the Redeemer of the World.

I do not deny that you believe that. I know Mormons believe in Jesus Christ and that He is their Saviour. However, you reject the Trinity, the very foundation of Christianity, and instead teach that God was once a human who lived on another planet and that ‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.’(LDS President Lorenzo Snow, 1840). Or that “Men are Gods in Embryo…‘Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of our earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming a man, so the undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages of aeons, of evolving into a God.’ (The First Presidency [Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder, Anthon H. Lund], ‘The Origin of Man,’ Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, p. 81).” (Achieving a Celestial Marriage Student Manual, 130)” I don’t like to have to say this, but this is not Christianity at all. Christianity affirms that there is one God and that nobody else will ever be God because God is the Creator of all things and we are the creation. I hate to break it to you, but you aren’t going to become a God and neither will anyone else. God says there is no other God, BEFORE OR AFTER Him.

You, "proudtobecatholic" have proven to be prideful, full of hubris, greed, lust and you are also full oy gluttony and sloth.

By your denials, you have proven to be a typical offended snowflake. By my calculations, you are as weak as you are a debater. You have lost and you are no child of God because all you do is walk in darkness. YOU KNOW NOT WHERE YOU GO BECAUSE YOU WOULD RATHER CHOOSE DARKNESS OVER LIGHT!

Let me educate you. Have you ever heard of the abusive ad hominem fallacy? Look it up because you have employed that fallacy at least 10 times in this one post.

My faith is built upon the rock of Jesus Christ. My resistance to the false teachings of the abominable roman church continues and I will testify, the angels speak through me. Especially Raguel, who wants nothing more than to smite unjustly liars such as yourself.

Yep, that sure sounds like Christianity to me. Let me lay out the foundations of what Christianity is. These are the universally agreed upon qualifications to be a Christian. 1. God’s unity. 2. God’s Tri-Unity. 3. Human depravity. 4. Christ’s Virgin Birth. 5. Jesus’ Sinlessness. 6. Jesus is fully God and fully human. 7. God’s grace. 8. The necessity of Faith. 9. Jesus’ atoning death. 10. Christ’s resurrection. 11. Jesus’ ascension. 12. Jesus’ intercession. 13. Jesus’ 2nd coming. 14. Inspiration of Scripture.

You reject the most important one of these all, the Tri-Unity of God and thus fall outside of the realm of Christianity. Call yourself a Mormon, not a Christian. No anti-trinitarian can be a Christian, for they reject the very fundamental teachings of Christianity.

I have not seen you once accept the Lord & Savior and instead, I have seen you misjudge, assume, spewing nonsense and also slandering about me here.

What are you talking about? Did you want me to video my accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour and send it to you? Sorry I didn’t know anybody would ask for a video documenting it. Look, we don’t even know each other so what are you talking about? Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity, is my Lord and Savior. One must have it so in order to be a Catholic. And what have I slandered about you? Give me examples please, instead of accusing without substantiation.

Do I look like I worship Mormon to you? If you assume yes, I am not surprised, however, we do indeed worship God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Ghost instead of a man dressed in fancy clothes and wearing a tiara. We don't worship Mormon nor any of the ancient prophets. We acknowledge their teachings that are primarily from Jesus Christ.

I never said you worship Mormon. I know you do not. I know enough about Mormonism to know you worship only three Gods. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, who are not joined together as one God but are rather three God who simply share authority.

God has won for me in this debate. You three are denounced from His presence and uh....praying to Mary and the Saints will not help you, "Mr.Catholic Pride" aka ProudetobeCatholic. So long hypocritical false believers who choose what is evil over what is good. You are exactly what you are.

No you have not won this debate but rather have presented very little evidence for anything you are saying, instead preferring to stick to insults and cowardice to ‘refute’ my points. Sorry but ad-hominins are not a valid form of debate.

As a humble servant of Christ, I shall now walk away just as Jesus did when people began assaulting Him xD. You are all labelled as truthphobic, Christophobic and heterophobic. My words are objectively factual, absolute and universally correct.

Why do you hide from a good debate? It is rare that I get to encounter Mormons and debate them so we have the possibility of having a great discussion. Instead, you choose to hide behind condemning everyone who disagrees with you as truthphobic, Christphobic, and heterophobic, even though that is not even close to the truth. I love the truth and I love Christ. I was not born nor raised Catholic, you know. Read my short bio. I said I am a recent convert from Protestantism to Catholicism. After tons of study, which included the Mormon church, by the way, I finally converted to Catholicism less than a year ago and it was the best decision of my life. But to get to this point, I had to go through one of the worst times of my life. I had severe anxiety, to the point where I couldn’t sleep at night because I just couldn’t figure out if the Catholic faith was true. I would stay up until 6am sometimes, researching and trying to find the truth. So for you to try and tell me that I am truthphobic is about the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard.

No, no, you don't understand, and no, no, you don't have any point. You're simply rejecting science. 

No, no, it means evolution happens.

Mike Majerus, Professor of Evolution at Cambridge University spent seven years repeating the studies on the predation of the peppered moth. In 2007, he concluded that, while there were some failings in Kettlewell’s original experiment, the peppered moth was, after all, ‘an example of Darwinian evolution.’
https://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/content/articles/2008/06/04/040608_peppered_moth_feature.shtmlRejecting science is irrational, you don't understand what you're trying to argue about, and you and your religious buddies giving each other fist bumps for denying science is just plain dumb.

Cat said:

Fascinating. You of all people should understand the improbability of evolution. Emotionalistic language? Apologies, i had no idea my writing conveyed any emotion at all. 

Cat said:

I am not mistaking order for design, it simply makes sense that with design comes order. And even that in itself is order, everything has a reason for what it does. 

Cat said:

Yes but why would the ''wild dance'' happen? There is no 'wild dance' at all, it is all a result of something else. Brownian motion, simple interactions between atoms, etc.  Why would humans be able to make a society? We are given the gift of reason and a fully functioning brain to do so. The raw force of nature, yes, you are correct, but have you ever given thought to the idea that someone could have put those laws of nature which govern and control most of our life? 

Cat said:

Firstly, if by saying the presence of a higher being can be seen in each of our lives feels overly emotional to you, know that i did not mean it in that sense. i meant it in a strictly factual way, that the trace of a God is obvious in each individual's life and in everything we do. I am aware of what we do in science, which is why it intrigues me why you would accept such an unscientific theory as evolution, which you have never seen happen or even witnessed a fossil evolving. I'm not sure what you mean by 'go home' as we are both on a website. 

The presence of a God is the only reasonable theory out of any I have heard or read about. Why would there not be a God? And if you do not believe in one, where do you believe the universe came from? Everything has a beginning. What do you say to the improbability of evolution? The lack of fossils and transitioning cells or animals? What do you do with the strict accuracy of the Bible and its manuscripts? It is the only conclusion one can come to. The more I study, the more i am convinced. 

Nomenclature, the number one HYPOCRITE within this Religion Forum,

YOUR DIRECT QUOTE TO ME: “I'd sit in a room and talk to @ProudToBeCatholic all day before I'd spend 5 minutes with your sorry butt. At least he's capable of polite conversation and doesn't simply spam the same illiterate posts all day long like an attention starved five year old child. You're a disgrace.”  https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/160714/#Comment_160714

YOUR COMICAL FOLLOWUP ERRONEOUS QUOTE TO ME AFTER SHOWING YOU TO BE THE HYPOCRITE: “I accused you of spamming the same posts over and over again, so I'm truly sorry you're too unintelligent and illiterate to understand simple, plain English. This is what I wrote:-

WHOOPS!  In your pre-school post above, you forgot to include the rest of your quote in saying: “At least he’s capable of polite conversation …” referring to my conversation in NOT being polite with ProudToBeCatholc!”  Therefore, I had to easily “school you” AGAIN in you not having polite conversations with members, of which, you accused me of, therefore, you became the hypocrite!  Your embarrassment in becoming what you are allegedly against, is shown in this link at your expense: https://www.debateisland.com/discussion/comment/160781/#Comment_160781

Relative to my posts, and as seen in your pathetic wanting posts in trying to be something that you are not, you can only dream about making posts like mine with the knowledge that I have in combating the primitive Bronze and Iron Age pseudo-christian.  

BUT, don't be dismayed, because seriously, you do provide great comedy when you try to get out of your predicaments that you have gotten yourself into because of your stupidity upon certain topics, but we will get used to it at your expense, okay?  Thank you,

NEXT ATHEIST LIKE “NOMENCLATURE” THAT DOESN’T KNOW HIS FROM A WILD GRAPE WHEN IT COMES TO LOGICAL DEDUCTIONS IN HIS LYING QUOTES, AND HIS TOTAL INEPTNESS OF THE BIBLE, WILL BE …?

@ProudToBeCatholic ;that the Bible clearly teaches faith and works in cooperation with grace.

Nevertheless I can find no grace whatsoever in blindly following a faith that was set up to control the masses, incite hatred against others and treat its followers like ignorant, lost sheep. 

In fact I think that the Bible clearly works in cooperation with "disgrace".